|
On March 02 2022 00:00 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting. 1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better? Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament. But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament. So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL? As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't). I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there. As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other.
You mentioned they didn't prepare as much and somehow linked it to the prizepool...if the prizepool doesn't have anything to do with it, maybe just don't mention it?
Help me out...how exactly did ESL refunnel money away from the koreans? I vaguely remember something like that, but nothing specific. Did they cancel a global event or something?
But even then it is totally understandable that ESL funnels money into their own circuit and not the global finals. ESL has to care that the international scene is alive, because the EU region specifically is probably where they make their money. So EU being more alive is much more important for the ESL than Korea.
|
On March 02 2022 09:53 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 00:00 tigera6 wrote:On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting. 1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better? Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament. But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament. So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL? As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't). I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there. As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other. You mentioned they didn't prepare as much and somehow linked it to the prizepool...if the prizepool doesn't have anything to do with it, maybe just don't mention it? Help me out...how exactly did ESL refunnel money away from the koreans? I vaguely remember something like that, but nothing specific. Did they cancel a global event or something? But even then it is totally understandable that ESL funnels money into their own circuit and not the global finals. ESL has to care that the international scene is alive, because the EU region specifically is probably where they make their money. So EU being more alive is much more important for the ESL than Korea.
I used Code S and Super Tournament as the example, not IEM. IEM should be the biggest tournament of the year, so even if the preparation is depending on the prizepool, it still means they should give their best on IEM.
The prizepool we are talking about is from IEM World Championship last year, where they cut it from 500k to 250k due to it being online. So in the 250k that they cut off, ESL re-distributed MOST of that into regional tournament where KR are not able to compete in. Like I said, global Finals is also run by ESL, not GSL, as part of the EPT.
And I find your point is quite hard to understand to be honest. So you think ESL boosting the prize pool of non-KR region for ONE year would really change the vitality or livelihood of the whole scene? Maybe they realized that didnt work and now they switching the entire EPT format in the coming season, I dont know how the new format will be better for the region, but we will see. But I think its more helpful if ESL can push Blizzard to get some new game balance coming out to keep it dynamic.
|
On March 02 2022 11:52 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 09:53 Balnazza wrote:On March 02 2022 00:00 tigera6 wrote:On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting. 1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better? Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament. But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament. So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL? As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't). I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there. As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other. You mentioned they didn't prepare as much and somehow linked it to the prizepool...if the prizepool doesn't have anything to do with it, maybe just don't mention it? Help me out...how exactly did ESL refunnel money away from the koreans? I vaguely remember something like that, but nothing specific. Did they cancel a global event or something? But even then it is totally understandable that ESL funnels money into their own circuit and not the global finals. ESL has to care that the international scene is alive, because the EU region specifically is probably where they make their money. So EU being more alive is much more important for the ESL than Korea. I used Code S and Super Tournament as the example, not IEM. IEM should be the biggest tournament of the year, so even if the preparation is depending on the prizepool, it still means they should give their best on IEM. The prizepool we are talking about is from IEM World Championship last year, where they cut it from 500k to 250k due to it being online. So in the 250k that they cut off, ESL re-distributed MOST of that into regional tournament where KR are not able to compete in. Like I said, global Finals is also run by ESL, not GSL, as part of the EPT. And I find your point is quite hard to understand to be honest. So you think ESL boosting the prize pool of non-KR region for ONE year would really change the vitality or livelihood of the whole scene? Maybe they realized that didnt work and now they switching the entire EPT format in the coming season, I dont know how the new format will be better for the region, but we will see. But I think its more helpful if ESL can push Blizzard to get some new game balance coming out to keep it dynamic.
I don't know about the inner workings of ESL, but maybe Blizzard pushed them to not sit on 250K for a whole year? Seems reasonable to me, that if you sponsor something, you want that money spent, not idling around (especially with the whole negative interests in Europe). So ESL had to put that money into something and they decided to boost their main region (EU) with it. Which is fine, because as I said, that is where they get their money from (or rather their viewers). As I said, ESL doesn't care about GSL and doesn't have to, either.
|
On March 02 2022 11:52 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 09:53 Balnazza wrote:On March 02 2022 00:00 tigera6 wrote:On March 01 2022 22:50 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 14:09 tigera6 wrote:On March 01 2022 11:43 Balnazza wrote:On March 01 2022 07:59 luxon wrote:
ESL/Blizz:
- funnels $ from korean regions to foreigners (previous region lock + recent ESL prize pool changes that went only to eu tournaments)
- hosts intl tournaments surrounded by EU fans on EU soil in EU timezone
- surprised when korean sc2 starts to drop off.
That being said, congrats to Serral, any tournament he wins is definitely not a fluke. On a separate note we need to do something about game design at the highest level, if I have to watch another zvz I'm going to lose it. I didn't realize in the last 10 years how important balance updates were not just for balance but also to keep the game interesting. 1)The ESL has nothing to do with the GSL and thus isn't responsible for their prizepool either. And I don't think prizepool affects how good the top korean players play or would you say that if GSL would award twice as much money Maru and Rogue would play even better? Except ESL consider the GSL as part of the EPT, so they dont have to host another tournament for the KR regions. And while the prizepool has some effect on player performance, it might not be that obvious. However, players normally would prepare more and practice more build before big tournament. But that was beside the point, as part of the prize pool from IEM should belong to KR players because its a Global Events. There was no right for ESL to re-distribute it into all the other regional competition BUT Korea. I brought this up at the time that the prize pool should be boosted for the Global Final, not the Regional EPT tournament. So you're saying Maru, Rogue and all the other koreans didn't bother to properly prepare for a tournament that they had a high chance of winning and that awards 170K for the winner, which is like the equivalent of 8-9 GSL wins, because GSL doesn't award them enough money? Why did the EU players bother to prepare then, even though the EU region doesn't pay out as much money as GSL? As mentioned before: ESL manages the EPT, but they don't have anything to with GSL. I assume the money they re-shuffled was given out by Blizzard to them, so why would ESL re-shuffle it towards another tournament organizer? Korea gets to do its own thing and with GSL and Super Tournament they actually award a lot of money to a relatively small player base. Koreans are doing exceptionally well financially. If there is a mindset of "for 30K I train accordingly, for 20K I won't", than they have an attitude problem (which I strongly believe they don't). I never said the KR players did not prepare for IEM, nor made any excuse about them losing to Serral and Reynor. I do know that players have different level of preparation for different level of tournament, if you think they have the same preparation for code S and Super Tournament, then you are sorely mistaken. But IEM should be where they show their best build and preparation level, so there is no excuse there. As for the prize, I did say that the best way for ESL give back the prize pool in the fairest way was through the GLOBAL FINAL, where everyone is capable of playing and winning. Not sure where you saw me said they should increase the prize for GSL only, read again, buddy. The fact that KR making more prize money through GSL than EU players through ESL is IRRELEVANT, because like you said, they have NOTHING to do with each other. You mentioned they didn't prepare as much and somehow linked it to the prizepool...if the prizepool doesn't have anything to do with it, maybe just don't mention it? Help me out...how exactly did ESL refunnel money away from the koreans? I vaguely remember something like that, but nothing specific. Did they cancel a global event or something? But even then it is totally understandable that ESL funnels money into their own circuit and not the global finals. ESL has to care that the international scene is alive, because the EU region specifically is probably where they make their money. So EU being more alive is much more important for the ESL than Korea. I used Code S and Super Tournament as the example, not IEM. IEM should be the biggest tournament of the year, so even if the preparation is depending on the prizepool, it still means they should give their best on IEM. The prizepool we are talking about is from IEM World Championship last year, where they cut it from 500k to 250k due to it being online. So in the 250k that they cut off, ESL re-distributed MOST of that into regional tournament where KR are not able to compete in. Like I said, global Finals is also run by ESL, not GSL, as part of the EPT. And I find your point is quite hard to understand to be honest. So you think ESL boosting the prize pool of non-KR region for ONE year would really change the vitality or livelihood of the whole scene? Maybe they realized that didnt work and now they switching the entire EPT format in the coming season, I dont know how the new format will be better for the region, but we will see. But I think its more helpful if ESL can push Blizzard to get some new game balance coming out to keep it dynamic.
I'm not a 100% on this but pretty sure they made the "season finals" out of that money in which Koreans played as well and had more seats than anybody else.
ESL can't push Blizz to do anything. They are happy Blizz is still funding the prize pools. And there won't be any balance patches since nobody is working on SC2 anymore. Either we live with it or we leave.
I for one am happy that we will have another year of awesome Starcrafts ahead
|
ENCE's crown jewel Joona. The team should really keep very good care on him. All that yesteryears turmoil within ENCE's CS:GO team - people burnouting, coming and going, and all - one guy watched it all aside, being like the mainstay, fulcrum, and the root for the whole team; Serral the Daddy. Egos may clash, aim may falter, crosshair can be too much right, and lack of utility may ruin a run.
That was never case with Serral. The Definition and the paramount of Esports professionalism. The goal was always there, clear, and openly declared. Serral should just buy his fair share of ENCE, in long run it would do only good for the franchise. He can provide some kind of stability... Lol.
Way he casually declared what is in his mind, and then just delivering:
EZ4ENCE!
|
Photo credits were credits due. One of the most iconic Esports photos of all time.
The Catharsis of Confidence.
|
|
|
Wheres the recap, pleaaasee
|
United States33421 Posts
On March 09 2022 22:23 Curufinwe Feanor wrote:
Wheres the recap, pleaaasee
it's coming 
|
I get sooo sad when i come here and theres no recap yet...
I feel like Diego, from awkward puppets (if you dont know, search him on youtube)
|
I think a recap of the biggest event of the year would be nice. What do you guys think?
|
On March 17 2022 19:14 Harris1st wrote:
I think a recap of the biggest event of the year would be nice. What do you guys think?
I think the same... all the time... even when im sleeping
|
I've been waiting that recap like a next guy, but as someone in other (dedicated thread for "missing recap") thread pointed out I don't feel urgency to personally DEMAND it. Actually, I've been contemplating could there be any possibilities to write it by myself, the conclusion being clear: NO WAY!
Mainly for two reasons:
1. I'm hopelessly biased Serral-fanboi
2. My overall skills in English language aren't sufficient for the task
But also,
3. for severely lacking understanding of and at minimal level of SC2 tactics,
4. and generally very limited knowledge on the scene as a whole,
effectively prevent me to write such text that, I, such as next guy, his cat, GF, and Aunt would expect from this site, particularly when it seems not to be any kind problem to generously feature a rate C tournaments with their own threads, both before and after the World Championship Finals 2022. As some one poignantly observed, when the tournament "deserved" a separate thread for every single day and phase of it, one would expect that there would be also some kind of conclusion among those tournament relevant threads.
Sadly this one is the closest to "a recap" we have currently.
I don't know. It should not be too hard to just list few facts:
- Map/Match score
- Opponents and their level
- Long time rivalry with Reynor
- Breaking of milestone of Million Dollars of career winnings
- Fact that the tournament was first offline Premier tournament since Xel'naga knows when
- Other minor intangibles such as widespread pre-tournament coverage on Serral at TL.Net SC2 news site
What ever.
|
@Azhrak of SC2.fi managed to write a recap in Finnish:
https://starcraft2.fi/forum/6379
Some lazy ass could just translate it with google translator, if Team Liquid collective cannot do any better than that.
GFS!
|
|
|
Recap in Finnish (by Unlarva)
![[image loading]](https://images.cdn.yle.fi/image/upload/c_crop,x_0,y_287,w_5568,h_3132/w_1200,h_675,ar_1.7777777777777777,dpr_1,c_fill/q_auto:eco,f_auto,fl_lossy/39-5211095bdef96e53ab6)
Nordic Bonjwa
Photo courtesy: YLE
ÄÄRIMOTITUS STARCRAFT II:SSA - SERRAL MAAILMANMESTARIKSI
Harvoin jos koskaan on missään urheilulajissa nähty keneltäkään yksilöurheilijalta yhtä suurta päättäväisyyttä ja määrätietoisuutta ennen lajin suurinta arvoturnausta. Harvoin jos koskaan urheilijan julkiset ulostulot ennen turnausta ovat olleet yhtä kylmän viileän toteavia kuin suomalaisen StarCraft II pelaajan, Joona "Serral" Sotalan lausunnot ennen Intel Extreme Masters Katowice 2022 turnausta. Tapa millä hän teki mitä sanoi ja mihin tähtäsi on äärimmäisen poikkeuksellista E-urheilussa, mutta myös urheilun saralla yleisemminkin.
Kenellekään SC2:ta seuraavalle ei ole enää ollut vuosiin epäselvää että Serral on yksi pelin suurimmista, taitavimmista, ja myös tasaisemmista pelaajista koskaan. Hän on myös se pelaaja, suuri pioneeri jonka harteilla lepää paljolti eurooppalaisen StarCraftin nousu ja läpimurto liki läpipääsemätöntä Korealaista hegemoniaa vastaan. Blizzcon-voitto vuodelta 2018 sinetöi Serralin paikan pelin pantheonissa ikiajoiksi. Tapa jolla hän dominoi tuona vuotena skeneä ei todennäköisesti koskaan tule toistumaan.
Serral osoitti jälleen kerran mikä on ero online ja offline -turnausten välillä, mitä tarkoittaa kun oikeasti mitellään mies miestä vastaan hengittäen samaa ilmaa samassa huoneessa. Pari vuotta koko peliä seuraava maailma on unelmoinut korona-rajoitusten purusta, samalla kun lajin suurimmat arvoturnaukset on pidetty etänä, internetin välityksellä. Online-turnausten arvo on kyseenalaistettu monesta syystä ja monella suulla, ei vähiten epätasapuolisten viiveiden ja vuorokaudenaikojen johdosta. Katowice 2022 vapautti meidät kaikki tästä spekulaatiosta. On täysin selvää kuka on nyt kukkulan kuningas.
Viimeiset online-koronavuodet Serral on suoriutunut kokonaisuudessaan mallikkaasti ottaen turnausvoittoja ja sijoittuen keskimäärin muutenkin hyvin, tosin joukkoon mahtuu myös muutama totaalinen huti - kuten hän itsekin on myöntänyt -, silti pysyen visusti maailman terävimmässä kärjessä. Tätä taustaa vastaan Serralin nyt saavuttama Maailmanmestaruus ei ole suuri yllätys. Pienenä yllätyksenä sen sijaan voidaan pitää sitä, että hän kykeni parantamaan kaikilla niillä osa-alueilla, joissa hänen suurimmat heikkoutensa ovat viime vuosina olleet, erityisesti ZvZ ja ZvZ a'la Reynor - hallitseva maailmanmestari Zerg ja Serralin pitkäaikainen Nemesis (ja hyvä ystävä).
Koskaan aikaisemmin ei olla nähty psykologisesti yhtä valmista, ehyttä, ja määrätietoista Joonaa kuin mitä nähtiin finaalissa Reynoria vastaan, tämä kaikki sen jälkeen kun hän oli piessyt pudotuspeleissä suvereenisti käytännössä pahimmat mahdolliset vastustajansa koko pelissä: Maru (Terran) 3-1, Rogue (Zerg) 3-0. Alkusarjassa (kartat 10-0) kaatui lisäksi Dark (Zerg) 2-0 ja useampi muu kansainvälinen huippunimi. Itse finaalissa Reynoria vastaan Serral kykeni kasaamaan itsensä, kirimään ja voittamaan tappioasemasta, eikä vähiten hänelle tilanne huomioiden äärimmäisen epätyypillisen drone-rush-juustoilun avustuksella.
Kun Serral meni noutamaan hyvin ansaittua pokaaliaan, oli koko tapahtumasarja ikäänkuin käsikirjoitettu aikapäiviä sitten. Aivan kuin maailmanjärjestys olisi palannut niille urille, joissa sen olisi pitänyt kulkea ilman pandemiaa ja päättymättömältä tuntuvaa online-tuonelaa. Serral tuli ja haki mikä Serralille kuului.
Riippumatta mitä sitten tapahtuu, ainakin hetken Serral on kiistämätön mestari, maailman paras Starcraft II -pelaaja. GG.
- Unlarva
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMnJGlFWQAE2lB8?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
