Well, there was an interesting interview with Maru about the upcoming Katowice tournament in 2022. When asked about Katowice, Maru said Rogue is the biggest threat to him because Rogue is very cunning, but Maru also said aside from Rogue, Protoss is the biggest threat to him: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1211953531?t=06h20m59s
(if you have not followed the King of Battles tournament, please don't click on this link if because you may be exposed to some of the results of the King of Battles tournament).
Interestingly, in Maru's runs at ASUS ROG and Dreamhack, he avoided Protoss in his playoff bracket, so that definitely helped him at those 2 tournaments (and Maru also admitted his avoidance of Protoss helped him at ASUS ROG).
this has been the case for most of Maru's career. SOS used to give him fits too, I imagine being teammates there is alot of nuances they know about each other as well.
Good for Maru that Protoss struggles so much now. Zest is leaving soon (although Maru tends to do well against him usually), Trap is not in form, sOs is gone, and I dont really see other tosses posing much of a threat. If Trap does not find his mojo soon and Classic and herO dont improve further, Maru will be fine.
But yeah, TvP did seem tough for him in the last year or two.
On November 22 2021 07:09 allmotor1 wrote: this has been the case for most of Maru's career. SOS used to give him fits too, I imagine being teammates there is alot of nuances they know about each other as well.
Actually, Maru used to have the best TvsP in the world. I think it was Heart of the Swarm, when every Korean Terran was struggling against Protoss, and almost all the Korean Terran had a losing record against Protoss in ProLeague, Maru was one of the few Terrans with a winning record against Protoss in ProLeague (I can’t remember if he was the only one with a winning record, but his record stood out the most among the Terrans in ProLeague).
Also, in the beginning 2018 when Terrans were once again struggling against against Protoss, Maru beat Stats in the GSL finals (after that GSL, Blizzard subsequently patched TvsP). So Maru used to have the best TvsP in the past, but not anymore.
On November 22 2021 07:09 allmotor1 wrote: this has been the case for most of Maru's career. SOS used to give him fits too, I imagine being teammates there is alot of nuances they know about each other as well.
Actually, Maru used to have the best TvsP in the world. I think it was Heart of the Swarm, when every Korean Terran was struggling against Protoss, and almost all the Korean Terran had a losing record against Protoss in ProLeague, Maru was one of the few Terrans with a winning record against Protoss in ProLeague (I can’t remember if he was the only one with a winning record, but his record stood out the most among the Terrans in ProLeague).
Also, in the beginning 2018 when Terrans were once again struggling against against Protoss, Maru beat Stats in the GSL finals (after that GSL, Blizzard subsequently patched TvsP). So Maru used to have the best TvsP in the past, but not anymore.
That was a long time ago... Also Korea has always been the biggest bastion of top protosses, so it makes sense Maru had to focus a lot more on his TvP to do well overall. And even when he was the best TvP player, Protoss was always the race he struggled with most, just a lot less than other Terrans at times.
I thought it was hilarious that after whining about TvZ balance on the new maps in previous tournaments, he's been forced to step off that platform temporarily due to his ridiculous TvZ run in the last few weeks
We'll get a very good look at his TvP in super tournament. It looks like he will have to beat 4 toss players in a row to win it. Unless Rogue or Solar beat Trap or Zoun respectively.
On November 22 2021 07:09 allmotor1 wrote: this has been the case for most of Maru's career. SOS used to give him fits too, I imagine being teammates there is alot of nuances they know about each other as well.
Actually, Maru used to have the best TvsP in the world. I think it was Heart of the Swarm, when every Korean Terran was struggling against Protoss, and almost all the Korean Terran had a losing record against Protoss in ProLeague, Maru was one of the few Terrans with a winning record against Protoss in ProLeague (I can’t remember if he was the only one with a winning record, but his record stood out the most among the Terrans in ProLeague).
Also, in the beginning 2018 when Terrans were once again struggling against against Protoss, Maru beat Stats in the GSL finals (after that GSL, Blizzard subsequently patched TvsP). So Maru used to have the best TvsP in the past, but not anymore.
The two points of Maru having the best TvP in the world (and having a decent claim to best TvP of all time) and also struggling against protoss can both be true.
Maru's weakest matchup is protoss, but every other terran struggles more than him
Maru TvP is still top level, but he somehow falling into the belief that he cant play late game TvP, so he try too hard to end the game early, leading to himself falling behind when his early pressure / harrassment got hard counter. I have seen Maru trying to fight into overcharged battery and lost most of his army because of that, instead of falling back, get more reinforcement and wait for it.
the thing about protoss players is that they play so different from one another, making it difficult to prepare for on the spot like a world finals. I believe herO took a game off Maru in WTL recently, and herO is a recent returnee from the military. So not surprised he is worried about protoss players but in truth he'd probably win the whole thing unless reynor really steps it up in the next month or two.
On November 22 2021 07:09 allmotor1 wrote: this has been the case for most of Maru's career. SOS used to give him fits too, I imagine being teammates there is alot of nuances they know about each other as well.
Actually, Maru used to have the best TvsP in the world. I think it was Heart of the Swarm, when every Korean Terran was struggling against Protoss, and almost all the Korean Terran had a losing record against Protoss in ProLeague, Maru was one of the few Terrans with a winning record against Protoss in ProLeague (I can’t remember if he was the only one with a winning record, but his record stood out the most among the Terrans in ProLeague).
Also, in the beginning 2018 when Terrans were once again struggling against against Protoss, Maru beat Stats in the GSL finals (after that GSL, Blizzard subsequently patched TvsP). So Maru used to have the best TvsP in the past, but not anymore.
Who's currently better in TvP while playing the best Protosses in the world than Maru? The only one who has better stats is Clem, it's not by much and he isn't exactly playing regurarly Trap, Zest, Zoun, herO or Classic. (although the last 2 haven't returned to the top yet)
So Maru said he s Bad vs Zerg on The new maps and then completly crushed TvZ Now he says Protoss is the biggest threat. So are we going to see him win vs Classic, Zest, Zoun and Trap in GSL ST now? Just noticed, that it would actually be possible for him to get that path (even though pretty unlikely, mostly because I don t see Trap reaching the final here)
I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
On November 22 2021 20:51 dbRic1203 wrote: So Maru said he s Bad vs Zerg on The new maps and then completly crushed TvZ Now he says Protoss is the biggest threat. So are we going to see him win vs Classic, Zest, Zoun and Trap in GSL ST now? Just noticed, that it would actually be possible for him to get that path (even though pretty unlikely, mostly because I don t see Trap reaching the final here)
Well he lost a high number of maps in these TvZ wins, and even had to resort to the good old 2 rax in the final game vs Dark. So what he is saying can still be true, we gotta see how other terrans manage to do on the map pool
On November 22 2021 22:20 yoshi245 wrote: I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
On November 22 2021 22:20 yoshi245 wrote: I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
The worst part about this is, sOs's game had gone down and he was retiring. A retiring Protoss player can even beat Maru.
teammate, while not inhouse teammate, they may be practicing together so much sOs simply knows. And in a BO3 I can see Zoun, herO, Classic and Trap taking it either. In a BO5 maybe ZZ and Trap. In a BO7 - Trap and the ZZ only on a very good day.
On November 22 2021 22:20 yoshi245 wrote: I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
The worst part about this is, sOs's game had gone down and he was retiring. A retiring Protoss player can even beat Maru.
teammate, while not inhouse teammate, they may be practicing together so much sOs simply knows. And in a BO3 I can see Zoun, herO, Classic and Trap taking it either. In a BO5 maybe ZZ and Trap. In a BO7 - Trap and the ZZ only on a very good day.
BTW, I don't think a "retiring" player would beat Serral, even in a Bo3. I can't see sOs beating Serral. I can't see any retiring player beating Serral, even in a Bo3.
On November 22 2021 22:20 yoshi245 wrote: I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
The worst part about this is, sOs's game had gone down and he was retiring. A retiring Protoss player can even beat Maru.
teammate, while not inhouse teammate, they may be practicing together so much sOs simply knows. And in a BO3 I can see Zoun, herO, Classic and Trap taking it either. In a BO5 maybe ZZ and Trap. In a BO7 - Trap and the ZZ only on a very good day.
BTW, I don't think a "retiring" player would beat Serral, even in a Bo3. I can't see sOs beating Serral. I can't see any retiring player beating Serral, even in a Bo3.
When this becaome about Serral? oO anyway DID you READ THE POST? I mentioned herO there. READ. IT.
Anyway, Zest is semi-retiring in a move to the army and Serral lost to him.
When this becaome about Serral? oO anyway DID you READ THE POST? I mentioned herO there. READ. IT.
Anyway, Zest is semi-retiring in a move to the army and Serral lost to him.
Because it's the exact same logic. Serral and Maru are two of the best players in the world.
I don't think a "retiring" player, not even in the top 5 of his race, would beat Serral in a Bo3. Zest is still in the top 5 of his race - top 3 probably - and he doesn't have performance issues like sOs this year. Zest's game is still at the top level, whereas sOs's game is not at the top level. sOs was not a top 5 Protoss player upon retiring.
I don't think a "retiring" player, whose game has dropped drastically and isn't in the top 5 of his race, would beat Serral in a Bo3. For the same reason, a "retiring" player, whose game has dropped drastically and isn't in the top 5 of his race, shouldn't be beating Maru in a a Bo3 either.
When this becaome about Serral? oO anyway DID you READ THE POST? I mentioned herO there. READ. IT.
Anyway, Zest is semi-retiring in a move to the army and Serral lost to him.
Because it's the exact same logic. Serral and Maru are two of the best players in the world.
A "retiring" player not even in the top 5 of his race would beat Serral in a Bo3. Zest is still in the top 5 of his race (top 3 probably) and he doesn't have performance issues like sOs this year. Zest's game is still at the top level, whereas sOs's game is not at the top level. sOs was not a top 5 Protoss player upon retiring.
I don't think a "retiring" player whose game has dropped drastically would beat Serral in a Bo3. For the same reason, a "retiring" player whose game has dropped drastically shouldn't be beating Maru in a a Bo3 either.
What exact logic? Do you realize in what thread are you? Maru said he's weak to PRotoss and you bring in Serral. WTF?
When this becaome about Serral? oO anyway DID you READ THE POST? I mentioned herO there. READ. IT.
Anyway, Zest is semi-retiring in a move to the army and Serral lost to him.
Because it's the exact same logic. Serral and Maru are two of the best players in the world.
A "retiring" player not even in the top 5 of his race would beat Serral in a Bo3. Zest is still in the top 5 of his race (top 3 probably) and he doesn't have performance issues like sOs this year. Zest's game is still at the top level, whereas sOs's game is not at the top level. sOs was not a top 5 Protoss player upon retiring.
I don't think a "retiring" player whose game has dropped drastically would beat Serral in a Bo3. For the same reason, a "retiring" player whose game has dropped drastically shouldn't be beating Maru in a a Bo3 either.
What exact logic? Do you realize in what thread are you? Maru said he's weak to PRotoss and you bring in Serral. WTF?
Your original quote:
teammate, while not inhouse teammate, they may be practicing together so much sOs simply knows
I then commented on how sOs was retiring when he beat Maru. My point is, all things being equal, a "retiring" player not in the top 5 of his race should be beating Maru in a Bo3. And since I put Serral up there with Maru because they are two of the best players in the world, a "retiring" player not in the top 5 of his race should be beating Serral either in a Bo3.
I used Serral as an example, because both Serral and Maru are two of the best players in the world.
Get the point? You realize how you can use other aspects to illustrate your original point? If you don't get it, forget it, let's move on.
On November 22 2021 22:20 yoshi245 wrote: I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
To be fair he just lost the DH global finals the day before, at a late hour. I doubt he was at his utter best there (still props to his opponents). But yeah I can see every top protoss take down Maru in bo3 or even bo5, although his weak point is probably mostly Trap
On November 22 2021 22:20 yoshi245 wrote: I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
To be fair he just lost the DH global finals the day before, at a late hour. I doubt he was at his utter best there (still props to his opponents). But yeah I can see every top protoss take down Maru in bo3 or even bo5, although his weak point is probably mostly Trap
Meomaika won against him, yet Maru still has Code S titles and Meomaika does not. Doesn't say a much about Maru as it says about Terran.
On November 22 2021 22:20 yoshi245 wrote: I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
To be fair he just lost the DH global finals the day before, at a late hour. I doubt he was at his utter best there (still props to his opponents). But yeah I can see every top protoss take down Maru in bo3 or even bo5, although his weak point is probably mostly Trap
The Korean Terrans have mostly been struggling against Korean Protoss this year in the GSLs and GSL Super Tournaments this year. There are only two exceptions to this.
The first exception is Maru beating Trap 4-3 in GSL Season 1. For that series, Trap should have walked away beating 4-0 on Maru, except Trap moved his Tempests away from his shield batteries, probably one of the biggest GSL blunders this year in the playoffs. From that blunder, Maru made the comeback against Trap.
The second exception is Cure in GSL Season 3.
Aside from these two exceptions, Zest/Trap/PartinG would typically come out as the victor against Maru/Cure & whoever the 3rd best Korean Terran is, in the 3 GSLs, and the 2 other GSL Super Tournaments.
On November 22 2021 22:20 yoshi245 wrote: I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
To be fair he just lost the DH global finals the day before, at a late hour. I doubt he was at his utter best there (still props to his opponents). But yeah I can see every top protoss take down Maru in bo3 or even bo5, although his weak point is probably mostly Trap
The Korean Terrans have mostly been struggling against Korean Protoss this year in the GSLs and GSL Super Tournaments this year. There are only two exceptions to this.
The first exception is Maru beating Trap 4-3 in GSL Season 1. For that series, Trap should have walked away beating 4-0 on Maru, except Trap moved his void rays away from his shield batteries, probably one of the biggest GSL blunders this year in the playoffs. From that blunder, Maru made the comeback against Trap.
The second exception is Cure in GSL Season 3.
Aside from these two exceptions, Zest/Trap/PartinG would typically come out as the victor against Maru/Cure/Bunny/Dream in the 3 GSLs, and the 2 other GSL Super Tournaments (I don't even know who the 3rd best Terran is in Korea after Maru/Cure so I just listed Bunny/Dream).
Again, that says more about Terran than Maru. Maru is overaggressive, sure, but it's not like other Terrans are doing better. He faces the top Protoss players and has almost the best TvP statistics in the world, so... what now? Let's move to the Protoss whining thread and make fun of them,
On November 22 2021 22:20 yoshi245 wrote: I can see Trap if he returns even close to his normal form would give Maru fits and it's shown that he can take Maru down quite well. But currently outside a well prepared Zest, I don't know what Protoss can beat Maru with his current momentum.
The worst part about this is, sOs's game had gone down and he was retiring. A retiring Protoss player can even beat Maru.
teammate, while not inhouse teammate, they may be practicing together so much sOs simply knows. And in a BO3 I can see Zoun, herO, Classic and Trap taking it either. In a BO5 maybe ZZ and Trap. In a BO7 - Trap and the ZZ only on a very good day.
BTW, I don't think a "retiring" player would beat Serral, even in a Bo3. I can't see sOs beating Serral. I can't see any retiring player beating Serral, even in a Bo3.
Hero is already a 6k5-6k7 on KR Ladder, and he has taken of games from other top players including Cure, Dark and Zest. You acting like Hero not a good Protoss is just insane. Also, sOs retired not because he is becoming a bum, the guy literally qualified for DH Global Fall, meaning he was top 6-8 in GSL when he retired. He probably just ran out of interest or having other goals in life, and his military service also coming up as well. And if you want to compare to Serral, you should be asking how many Zerg is capable of taking a game off him outside or Reynor Rogue and Dark, because thats his weakest matchup. I can several KR Zerg do that, and some EU Zerg as well.
On November 22 2021 23:56 tigera6 wrote: Hero is already a 6k5-6k7 on KR Ladder, and he has taken of games from other top players including Cure, Dark and Zest.
My reply was to Yoshi though, who said he couldn't see any other Protoss beating Maru in his current form, except for Zest: