I'm not entirely disagreeing with what you're saying, but this is just plain wrong. Don't get me wrong nothing but respect for Trap he's top tier no doubt, but I've seen his level of competitive form fluctuate alot over the years so to say he doesn't choke is a total fallacy.
He has had a fair few chokes, equally he’s had his fair share of clutching series out too.
He’s not a relentless stone cold killer like Rogue when he reaches the playoffs of a tournament, or peak Serral.
But few are up at that bar.
I’d say Trap’s mental toughness isn’t notably below or above the average decent pro gamer’s, and he’s just better at the game than almost everyone in the scene, so it’s sufficient for him to keep Protoss at least winning some tournaments regularly.
I realise for regulars in this thread I must be sounding like a broken record on this particular point by now :p
I'm not entirely disagreeing with what you're saying, but this is just plain wrong. Don't get me wrong nothing but respect for Trap he's top tier no doubt, but I've seen his level of competitive form fluctuate alot over the years so to say he doesn't choke is a total fallacy.
He has had a fair few chokes, equally he’s had his fair share of clutching series out too.
He’s not a relentless stone cold killer like Rogue when he reaches the playoffs of a tournament, or peak Serral.
But few are up at that bar.
I’d say Trap’s mental toughness isn’t notably below or above the average decent pro gamer’s, and he’s just better at the game than almost everyone in the scene, so it’s sufficient for him to keep Protoss at least winning some tournaments regularly.
I realise for regulars in this thread I must be sounding like a broken record on this particular point by now :p
I don't even blame Trap at all, he's been playing for a long time, dips in form/strength happens to everyone, even Serral and Maru.
I'm not entirely disagreeing with what you're saying, but this is just plain wrong. Don't get me wrong nothing but respect for Trap he's top tier no doubt, but I've seen his level of competitive form fluctuate alot over the years so to say he doesn't choke is a total fallacy.
He has had a fair few chokes, equally he’s had his fair share of clutching series out too.
He’s not a relentless stone cold killer like Rogue when he reaches the playoffs of a tournament, or peak Serral.
But few are up at that bar.
I’d say Trap’s mental toughness isn’t notably below or above the average decent pro gamer’s, and he’s just better at the game than almost everyone in the scene, so it’s sufficient for him to keep Protoss at least winning some tournaments regularly.
I realise for regulars in this thread I must be sounding like a broken record on this particular point by now :p
I don't even blame Trap at all, he's been playing for a long time, dips in form/strength happens to everyone, even Serral and Maru.
Yeah, if you play the SC2 games long enough professionally, you will have disappointment result in some way. We all want Trap to win a GSL, or get a deep run into Blizzon/IEM/WESG type tournament, but that has not happened yet. Thats quite sad for Trap and his fans, and surely affect his overall legacy as an all-time great. That still not to say Trap is not a top level player but hes not catching the other top players career wise, and time is running out for him
Since Zest is supposedly going to Katowice, I am hopeful because he seems more capable than Trap to win the event. He made two Katowice finals in a row, so it should be interesting
On January 28 2022 23:57 Waradmiral wrote: lets see zest against serral then we talk.
Well in Katowice 2020 he crushed Serral to go to the finals before losing to Rogue ran out of builds, might happen again. Although truth be told the game had a new patch and was not as figured out as ZvP currently is but who knows
If zest learns to use his full potential, like not losing 8 stalkers to widow mine because of mismicro that made a game that was more than over exciting for a few minutes he should get unstoppable but he still seems to be not consistent enough. But his peaks are very nice to see, even as a terran player.
On January 28 2022 23:57 Waradmiral wrote: lets see zest against serral then we talk.
If he outplays Serral, then he'll win. Zest doesn't deserve to win against Serral just because he's playing Protoss and Serral plays Zerg.
Pure ass kicking by Parting, fantastic use of force fields that you just don't see too often anymore.
Now with Zest taking down Dark and taking home the gold, I think we could be on the cusp of seeing a PvZ powershift slightly back into Protoss favor.
Protoss seem to be getting cleaner at holding Queen walks, Blink Stalkers are also shockingly making their way back into the PvZ meta and they haven't been meta in a long time.
Still think Lurkers give Zerg the edge in the late late game when all their upgrades hit though.
Pure ass kicking by Parting, fantastic use of force fields that you just don't see too often anymore.
Now with Zest taking down Dark and taking home the gold, I think we could be on the cusp of seeing a PvZ powershift slightly back into Protoss favor.
Protoss seem to be getting cleaner at holding Queen walks, Blink Stalkers are also shockingly making their way back into the PvZ meta and they haven't been meta in a long time.
Still think Lurkers give Zerg the edge in the late late game when all their upgrades hit though.
I'd feel a little more optimistic about that if both the protoss players you mentioned weren't set to retire in the coming months
Pure ass kicking by Parting, fantastic use of force fields that you just don't see too often anymore.
Now with Zest taking down Dark and taking home the gold, I think we could be on the cusp of seeing a PvZ powershift slightly back into Protoss favor.
Protoss seem to be getting cleaner at holding Queen walks, Blink Stalkers are also shockingly making their way back into the PvZ meta and they haven't been meta in a long time.
Still think Lurkers give Zerg the edge in the late late game when all their upgrades hit though.
I'd feel a little more optimistic about that if both the protoss players you mentioned weren't set to retire in the coming months
I see what you're saying, but the same could easily be said about Terran and even Zerg to a certain extent. Solar. Rogue, Maru, Dark, they won't be able to stave off military service forever. I mean hell, if Maru weren't playing Terran wins at the top level would be pretty low I think (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong)
At that point honestly I think it's going to be the EU scene that dominates with Serral, MaxPax, Reynor, and Clem.
I am too pessimistic... and even though it was very nice to see Zest win the ST, that tourney is not the highest focus for most players, since Katowice is coming up. I mean, Maru, for example, was NOT playing his highest level.... I would actually be in chock if a toss wins.
We'll see what happens. If toss becomes the new 1st place race in the premier tourneys i will write a new post talking about how hard it is to understand this game even though there are no patches, and also label myself as a whiny pessimistic person =)
Pure ass kicking by Parting, fantastic use of force fields that you just don't see too often anymore.
Now with Zest taking down Dark and taking home the gold, I think we could be on the cusp of seeing a PvZ powershift slightly back into Protoss favor.
Protoss seem to be getting cleaner at holding Queen walks, Blink Stalkers are also shockingly making their way back into the PvZ meta and they haven't been meta in a long time.
Still think Lurkers give Zerg the edge in the late late game when all their upgrades hit though.
I'd feel a little more optimistic about that if both the protoss players you mentioned weren't set to retire in the coming months
I see what you're saying, but the same could easily be said about Terran and even Zerg to a certain extent. Solar. Rogue, Maru, Dark, they won't be able to stave off military service forever. I mean hell, if Maru weren't playing Terran wins at the top level would be pretty low I think (someone correct me on this if I'm wrong)
At that point honestly I think it's going to be the EU scene that dominates with Serral, MaxPax, Reynor, and Clem.
Yes, Maxpax is a promising championship contender, but Maxpax also wants to preserve his anonymity and just dropped out of an offline tournament to do so. As more premier tournaments return to an offline setting, Maxpax will have fewer and fewer opportunities to be a real championship contender if he continues to choose privacy over playing offline (which, if that's what he wants, more power to him!). And while EU might have a lot of mid to low level protoss pros, the list of protosses who could win or are close to that level is incredibly short.
I just realized that the Liberator is what Protoss has been begging for since WoL- an early game harass/pressure unit that doesn't then become completely useless.
A few months ago, I was going to make a quick write up about how every single unit in the Protoss roster is one-dimensional and lacking in strategic or tactical flexibility. Then the phoenix and void ray builds rose from the ashes. I'm not sure they've saved Protoss and they've lost their luster a bit because queens. Maybe we've met a happy medium.
On January 29 2022 04:33 Jerubaal wrote: I just realized that the Liberator is what Protoss has been begging for since WoL- an early game harass/pressure unit that doesn't then become completely useless.
Oracle? Phoenix? DT? okay Phoenix is arguable if it's still useful later - only in specific situations
I think Zest has a very low chance against Serral. Serral is just an unstoppable protoss killer, and he won't bother with all the timings against Zest that Dark tried.
However, Serral can totally get knocked out of the tournament by Maru or any strong zerg, so he's definitely not a shoe-in to win this.
For everyone else, I think its really hard to give zest anything out side of a 35 -- 65 percent chance of winning a match against anyone not Serral. You can never be too confident in him but you definitely cannot count him out.
On January 29 2022 06:08 angry_maia wrote: I think Zest has a very low chance against Serral. Serral is just an unstoppable protoss killer, and he won't bother with all the timings against Zest that Dark tried.
However, Serral can totally get knocked out of the tournament by Maru or any strong zerg, so he's definitely not a shoe-in to win this.
For everyone else, I think its really hard to give zest anything out side of a 35 -- 65 percent chance of winning a match against anyone not Serral. You can never be too confident in him but you definitely cannot count him out.
I feel like alot of people underestimate the prowess of bonjwa level players in their prime.
Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, Maru, these are all players that have been absurdly dominant at certain points, especially so in their best match ups.
Flashes TvZ and TvP are both at 72%, both of the match ups aren't broken, Flash is broken.
EPT
God I was so happy.
ran out of builds, might happen again.
