|
I was writing a response to a discussion about the Queen and while I was writing I really came to understand the insanity that is the Queen and the stubbornness of Blizzard. This is what led me to write this post.
Although there are many flaws in SC2's design none compare to that of the Zerg Queen. If you think for a minute about all the jobs the queen does for the Zerg you start to understand the insanity. All this just because Blizzard wants to keep Hydralisk on Lair Tech?
Let's start with what it was designed to do.
Inject larvae, spread creep, heal Zerg units or buildings.(support unit)
As strategy develops in sc2 it seems clear Zerg needs good anti air earlier because of how quick Terran and Protoss make their Starport/Stargate units.
They need the range to deal with Liberator harass and warp prisms, they need good damage to deal with mass phoenix, void rays and banshees.
Queens are also quite capable at fighting ground units because of how durable they are on top of that they can heal each other, they are also good at blocking pathways because of how big they are making it harder for units like hellions to run past them.
They are also psionic so no light or armored damage multipliers work against them.
Because of this combination of healing ability, high hit points and psionic armor zergs started to realize they could rely on mostly pure queen for defense for a lot longer staying safe without having to sacrifice drone production.
This also makes zerg super flexible when facing a attack they were not completely ready for, micro combined with the durability of queens gives zerg the time they need to mass produce the combat units needed to stop the attack. And not only that, they can then be used in an attack like an army of moving photon cannons.
This is the reason Zerg players have managed to be a lot more consistent with their results at the very highest level of play over the years compared to their Terran and especially Protoss counterparts.
I hope Blizzard will make a few more drastic changes to sc2 before they close the book
|
they need to add the armor/light tag back to queens, that alone will solve many of the problems the queen becomes
|
We already have a pointless balance thread ebbing and flowing, do we really need another one? Starcraft is pretty much life for me but that's when I realized it's more like RTS is life, not necessarily Starcraft. If Blizzard wants to let a game like this be pretty much on it's own regarding balance then lets just focus on high quality maps at this point and give the balance thing a rest.
We all know there could be various improvements both large and small that would be great, but I think deep down we know that no matter how much we cry about it in TL.net or Reddit, they just really and truly don't care.
And honestly I think even if they actually cared, they wouldn't have the slightest clue on who to put in charge of the operation, nor is there anyone that the community would agree upon anyways.
Pros? Too biased
Casters? Eh, maybe, I love Wardi and the way he casts but does he necessarily have very high level game knowledge?
The noobs (rank 1 masters and below) we all know can just continue to improve, hell you could probably say that all the way to the tip top of GM if you wanted to.
|
you guys can complain as much as you want for balance changes its not happening lol.
|
I think the durability of queens is a problem, feels like you're punching one of those rubber boxing dolls. But as has been pointed out in other threads - reworking the queen means reworking zerg in its entirety.
|
WE NEED TO REWORK MULES. WE NEED TO REWORK WARPGATE. WE NEED TO REWORK QUEENS.
Did I capture the first small steps to balance an asymmetrical designed game? Shit, I should be a AAA game designer. I'm fucking ready, just send me a PM or respond here in the comment section below.
|
IMO the only thing Queens might be guilty of is giving Zerg a bit too much breathing room / information in the mid to late game via creep spread, everything else seems fine. And honestly when you watch someone like Clem playing TvZ it's hard to make an argument that Zerg needs to be nerfed (and giving Queens a light or armored tag is a nerf), especially in the early to mid game.
|
On November 02 2021 14:11 IMSupervisor wrote:
IMO the only thing Queens might be guilty of is giving Zerg a bit too much breathing room / information in the mid to late game via creep spread, everything else seems fine. And honestly when you watch someone like Clem playing TvZ it's hard to make an argument that Zerg needs to be nerfed (and giving Queens a light or armored tag is a nerf), especially in the early to mid game.
If I'm wrong I apologize but are you referring to the Dreamhack finals between him and Serral? I gotta admit man, it does look kind of bad but Serral is really just so mind boggling quick, the guy is just playing on a whole other level.
|
On November 02 2021 14:24 jpg06051992 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 14:11 IMSupervisor wrote:
IMO the only thing Queens might be guilty of is giving Zerg a bit too much breathing room / information in the mid to late game via creep spread, everything else seems fine. And honestly when you watch someone like Clem playing TvZ it's hard to make an argument that Zerg needs to be nerfed (and giving Queens a light or armored tag is a nerf), especially in the early to mid game. If I'm wrong I apologize but are you referring to the Dreamhack finals between him and Serral? I gotta admit man, it does look kind of bad but Serral is really just so mind boggling quick, the guy is just playing on a whole other level.
All good mate, I was just speaking generally and didn't have any games in mind specifically. I'm not even sure if creep is considered much of an issue anymore at the top level, it was just the only thing I could think of relating to the Queen that could be adjusted which might improve the game. Perhaps it's just my Terran bias speaking though XD
|
As stated, there are so many things wrong with the core design of SC2 - to focus on the queen specifically seems a little weird.
Before touching units, Blizzard should really look at:
- reverting starting workers to 6 or so
- adopting Brood War's "diminishing returns" economy, instead of the current scaling economy
Wait a few minutes (months) then take a look at what needs to change beyond that. I agree Queens do too much, like police! But without Brood-War-esque 1-supply "mediocre" hydras (which won't happen), what do you do?
Like there are just so many issues with the game, from the terrible "roach/marauder/immortal" trifecta of "units that don't shoot up" - an idea sc2 devs had to make it stand on its own from its predecessor - to pathing, dps numbers, speed, splash, individual unit design, zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc.
On top of all that
- bio is too strong and the most microable units in the game (reminiscent of mutas in Brood War)
- gateway units suck ass and are purely about mobility over sustainability
- robo units failed hard when push came to shove, with aesthetic design and narrative intrigue coming in a distant second to gameplay
- warp-in is ridiculous and, again, another thing that on paper seems cool but actually just warps (heh) the game into something completely bizarre with the company of the warp prism especially
- splash units that are set-and-forget and can win games in a second (banelings, widow mines, disruptors)
So I dno if the Queen is worth pulling to the side to discuss. There's just so much fundamental badness that works great for spectators but is ultimately quite shit for the players.
Game's too fucking fast and way too reliant on build orders and unit comps.
|
Another whine post on TL "yawn" which covers the usual myths...
As said before, the best way to balance zvt nowadays would be maps if only blizzard will be a bit more active on this part.
As for zvp/tvp, I guess a few tweaks here and there would be nice. (Lurkers, void, blink dt...)
|
I think it's pretty reasonable to bring up the Queen, I mean we see players make 16 of these things quite often.
That's 150*16=2400 minerals. So please respond reasonably as well..
The Psionic tag doesn't have anything to do with having an armour tag. Viper is armoured+psionic, Hight Templar is light+psionic and the Baneling doesn't have armoured, light, nor psionic tag.
The change I've come up with is tailored towards letting the Queen do it's role as a defensive fighting unit and nerfing it's macro ability(creep,) so that using 2400 minerals on Queens actually hampers your macro style quite a bit, while making it so you can defend the shit you need to without having to spend this much into the Queens. Then we should see less Queens, stronger Queens and quite a bit less Creep Spread, unless you REALLY invest into it.
So what I've come up with is as follows:
- Queen starting energy from 25->50(the same starting energy as all other energy units/buildings).
- Queen Creep Tumour cost from 25->50.
- Queen Transfuse now is reverted to it's instant heal version (the heal over time is now instant).
Another change that can also be done is reducing the vision range of Creep Tumours by 1, this can be done without affecting it's ability to spread Creep Tumours, this is because with this change the vision is the same as the creep radius.
It should be said that this I think is an overall nerf to the Queen and so you probably can't do this change without changing something up for T and P too. I definitely don't think Zerg is too powerful atm.
|
On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:As stated, there are so many things wrong with the core design of SC2 - to focus on the queen specifically seems a little weird. Before touching units, Blizzard should really look at: - reverting starting workers to 6 or so
- adopting Brood War's "diminishing returns" economy, instead of the current scaling economy
Wait a few minutes (months) then take a look at what needs to change beyond that. I agree Queens do too much, like police! But without Brood-War-esque 1-supply "mediocre" hydras (which won't happen), what do you do? Like there are just so many issues with the game, from the terrible "roach/marauder/immortal" trifecta of "units that don't shoot up" - an idea sc2 devs had to make it stand on its own from its predecessor - to pathing, dps numbers, speed, splash, individual unit design, zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc. On top of all that - bio is too strong and the most microable units in the game (reminiscent of mutas in Brood War)
- gateway units suck ass and are purely about mobility over sustainability
- robo units failed hard when push came to shove, with aesthetic design and narrative intrigue coming in a distant second to gameplay
- warp-in is ridiculous and, again, another thing that on paper seems cool but actually just warps (heh) the game into something completely bizarre with the company of the warp prism especially
- splash units that are set-and-forget and can win games in a second (banelings, widow mines, disruptors)
So I dno if the Queen is worth pulling to the side to discuss. There's just so much fundamental badness that works great for spectators but is ultimately quite shit for the players. Game's too fucking fast and way too reliant on build orders and unit comps.
List:
1. Bio is fine where it is, it's strong, but it takes ages to get running, with stim being one of the longest upgrades in the game. There are a number of decent counters to it, it offers high octane play and counterplay, it is what makes the game actual fun for terrans and their opponents.
2. gateway units, in particular the Stalker being shit is a direct consequence of warpgate being a thing. Its a design choice there won't be a change coming. Never.
3. Robo units, actually, still see a lot of play and aren't nearly as bad as you make them out to be. Being out of the meta because recently stargate is more popular doesn't necessarily mean that they are in dire need of a buff. Besides, in the lower leagues ( anything below GM) the tosses that actually win games are the ones that field archon immortal (why everyone always complains about gateway units being weak when the archon literally can be warped in anywhere and just flushes all Bio and zerg units down the toilet is a mystery to me. Apparently at this point the whole weak Gateway story has taken on a live of its own)
4. Yes, but would the game actually be more fun if you had to waddle dragoons around? BW reminiscence is a bit of a traditional TL sin, doesn't mean the change would work well for SC2
5. If you set and forget your Mines you ll be in for a surprise when a handful of lings charge your bio. The fact that you set and forget just means that you aren't fast enough to micro, bane and mine micro is a thing, just not in gold:D
6. you are right that picking out the queen without changing the early game dynamics between the races is just silly. Queens are just as strong as they need to be right now just so zerg doesn't outright lose to every silly hellbat all in.
And yes, the game is about speed and execution. Real time is big in sc2, strategy and planning are for in between games and that's just how it is. If you prefer slower RTS where you can adjust your wholesome strategic approach in the game that's fine but you ll never be happy with Sc2 because that's just not what the game wanted to be.
Edit:
on topic, we could give queens negative health regen while off creep so they lose a bit of their offensive potential and be less of a jack of all trades
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:+ Show Spoiler +As stated, there are so many things wrong with the core design of SC2 - to focus on the queen specifically seems a little weird. Before touching units, Blizzard should really look at: - reverting starting workers to 6 or so
- adopting Brood War's "diminishing returns" economy, instead of the current scaling economy
Wait a few minutes (months) then take a look at what needs to change beyond that. I agree Queens do too much, like police! But without Brood-War-esque 1-supply "mediocre" hydras (which won't happen), what do you do? Like there are just so many issues with the game, from the terrible "roach/marauder/immortal" trifecta of "units that don't shoot up" - an idea sc2 devs had to make it stand on its own from its predecessor - to pathing, dps numbers, speed, splash, individual unit design, zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc. + Show Spoiler +On top of all that - bio is too strong and the most microable units in the game (reminiscent of mutas in Brood War)
- gateway units suck ass and are purely about mobility over sustainability
- robo units failed hard when push came to shove, with aesthetic design and narrative intrigue coming in a distant second to gameplay
- warp-in is ridiculous and, again, another thing that on paper seems cool but actually just warps (heh) the game into something completely bizarre with the company of the warp prism especially
- splash units that are set-and-forget and can win games in a second (banelings, widow mines, disruptors)
So I dno if the Queen is worth pulling to the side to discuss. There's just so much fundamental badness that works great for spectators but is ultimately quite shit for the players. Game's too fucking fast and way too reliant on build orders and unit comps .
Zergling costs 1 supply (technically half, but game doesn't do halves)
On November 02 2021 20:46 alpenrahm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:As stated, there are so many things wrong with the core design of SC2 - to focus on the queen specifically seems a little weird. Before touching units, Blizzard should really look at: - reverting starting workers to 6 or so
- adopting Brood War's "diminishing returns" economy, instead of the current scaling economy
Wait a few minutes (months) then take a look at what needs to change beyond that. I agree Queens do too much, like police! But without Brood-War-esque 1-supply "mediocre" hydras (which won't happen), what do you do? Like there are just so many issues with the game, from the terrible "roach/marauder/immortal" trifecta of "units that don't shoot up" - an idea sc2 devs had to make it stand on its own from its predecessor - to pathing, dps numbers, speed, splash, individual unit design, zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc. On top of all that - bio is too strong and the most microable units in the game (reminiscent of mutas in Brood War)
- gateway units suck ass and are purely about mobility over sustainability
- robo units failed hard when push came to shove, with aesthetic design and narrative intrigue coming in a distant second to gameplay
- warp-in is ridiculous and, again, another thing that on paper seems cool but actually just warps (heh) the game into something completely bizarre with the company of the warp prism especially
- splash units that are set-and-forget and can win games in a second (banelings, widow mines, disruptors)
So I dno if the Queen is worth pulling to the side to discuss. There's just so much fundamental badness that works great for spectators but is ultimately quite shit for the players. Game's too fucking fast and way too reliant on build orders and unit comps. + Show Spoiler +List:
1. Bio is fine where it is, it's strong, but it takes ages to get running, with stim being one of the longest upgrades in the game. There are a number of decent counters to it, it offers high octane play and counterplay, it is what makes the game actual fun for terrans and their opponents.
2. gateway units, in particular the Stalker being shit is a direct consequence of warpgate being a thing. Its a design choice there won't be a change coming. Never.
3. Robo units, actually, still see a lot of play and aren't nearly as bad as you make them out to be. Being out of the meta because recently stargate is more popular doesn't necessarily mean that they are in dire need of a buff. Besides, in the lower leagues ( anything below GM) the tosses that actually win games are the ones that field archon immortal (why everyone always complains about gateway units being weak when the archon literally can be warped in anywhere and just flushes all Bio and zerg units down the toilet is a mystery to me. Apparently at this point the whole weak Gateway story has taken on a live of its own)
4. Yes, but would the game actually be more fun if you had to waddle dragoons around? BW reminiscence is a bit of a traditional TL sin, doesn't mean the change would work well for SC2
5. If you set and forget your Mines you ll be in for a surprise when a handful of lings charge your bio. The fact that you set and forget just means that you aren't fast enough to micro, bane and mine micro is a thing, just not in gold:D
6. you are right that picking out the queen without changing the early game dynamics between the races is just silly. Queens are just as strong as they need to be right now just so zerg doesn't outright lose to every silly hellbat all in.
And yes, the game is about speed and execution. Real time is big in sc2, strategy and planning are for in between games and that's just how it is. If you prefer slower RTS where you can adjust your wholesome strategic approach in the game that's fine but you ll never be happy with Sc2 because that's just not what the game wanted to be. Edit: on topic, we could give queens negative health regen while off creep so they lose a bit of their offensive potential and be less of a jack of all trades
Because at the early game the creep is everywhere and the enemy units are only on the creep. C'mon.
On November 02 2021 11:26 Drahkn wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I was writing a response to a discussion about the Queen and while I was writing I really came to understand the insanity that is the Queen and the stubbornness of Blizzard. This is what led me to write this post.
Although there are many flaws in SC2's design none compare to that of the Zerg Queen. If you think for a minute about all the jobs the queen does for the Zerg you start to understand the insanity. All this just because Blizzard wants to keep Hydralisk on Lair Tech?
Let's start with what it was designed to do.
Inject larvae, spread creep, heal Zerg units or buildings.(support unit)
As strategy develops in sc2 it seems clear Zerg needs good anti air earlier because of how quick Terran and Protoss make their Starport/Stargate units.
They need the range to deal with Liberator harass and warp prisms, they need good damage to deal with mass phoenix, void rays and banshees.
Queens are also quite capable at fighting ground units because of how durable they are on top of that they can heal each other, they are also good at blocking pathways because of how big they are making it harder for units like hellions to run past them.
They are also psionic so no light or armored damage multipliers work against them.
Because of this combination of healing ability, high hit points and psionic armor zergs started to realize they could rely on mostly pure queen for defense for a lot longer staying safe without having to sacrifice drone production.
This also makes zerg super flexible when facing a attack they were not completely ready for, micro combined with the durability of queens gives zerg the time they need to mass produce the combat units needed to stop the attack. And not only that, they can then be used in an attack like an army of moving photon cannons.
This is the reason Zerg players have managed to be a lot more consistent with their results at the very highest level of play over the years compared to their Terran and especially Protoss counterparts.
I hope Blizzard will make a few more drastic changes to sc2 before they close the book
What do you people need to understand that Blizzard already closed the book. They finished balance patching the game. They're done with balance patches.
It's fun to throw ideas around but they won't touch the game. Especially since the queen was in the discussions for ages now.
Not. Gonna. Happen.
Move on.
|
Blizzard didn't close the book, they closed the whole fucking store.
Do they have _any_ games getting good support, or has it all gone to call of duty?
|
On November 02 2021 22:01 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
.. zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc.
Zergling costs 1 supply (technically half, but game doesn't do halves) Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 20:46 alpenrahm wrote:
on topic, we could give queens negative health regen while off creep so they lose a bit of their offensive potential and be less of a jack of all trades
Because at the early game the creep is everywhere and the enemy units are only on the creep. C'mon.
one zergling does cost 0.5 supply.
you are probably confused because they hatch in pairs. two at a time from one egg for a total cost of 1 supply. the game does count in halves, but displays supply rounded up.
the negative health regen would address the queen walk.
(i was thinking about the same solution, but zergs would probably get overlord speed and poop a creep highway in reaction anyways, maybe for an even stronger push, with faster reinforcements).
|
i dont think there are any programmers left that are any good to program in legacy languages at blizzard. ive heard they still make games with drag and drop sdks tho still. dont think we are going to see any more major changes.
oh, and, theres nothing wrong with the queen, you really dont want to go back to the way it was , cos i dont miss playing against the same strat everygame and on every map
|
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Until you got to the bit about hydralisks on lair tech i thought this was about Kerrigan :D
|
8751 Posts
I hope Blizzard will make a few more drastic changes to sc2 before they close the book
i'd rather they didnt
what queens have become is awful design-wise but changing them now would be a bad idea. if we were in alpha or beta, sure, cut your losses and commit to a redesign. but the game is actually pretty good right now overall and should coast off of small tweaks. i dont think redesigns are on the table anymore anyway. probably just small tweaks that have the smallest impact possible on the most successful strategies, just to mix things up.
|
Russian Federation102 Posts
|
I was expecting a funny and clever visual comparison of a sc2 queen and some real life objects. I am disappointed
|
My thought was Queen should not be allowed walking out of creeps, but should be sufficient and reliable to counter the ranged air units like Liberators, Bcs and Void Rays to avoid early harassment.
This would prevent queen walks scenario, or what we called as German taxi from going into effect.
|
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On November 03 2021 13:48 swarminfestor wrote:
My thought was Queen should not be allowed walking out of creeps, but should be sufficient and reliable to counter the ranged air units like Liberators, Bcs and Void Rays to avoid early harassment.
This would prevent queen walks scenario, or what we called as German taxi from going into effect.
That was clearly the design intent but devs probably underestimated how much it would be worth just yoloing across the map anyway - and figures weren't updated for the modern game where there is more creep earlier.
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 02 2021 22:54 bela.mervado wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 22:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
.. zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc.
Zergling costs 1 supply (technically half, but game doesn't do halves) On November 02 2021 20:46 alpenrahm wrote:
on topic, we could give queens negative health regen while off creep so they lose a bit of their offensive potential and be less of a jack of all trades
Because at the early game the creep is everywhere and the enemy units are only on the creep. C'mon. one zergling does cost 0.5 supply. you are probably confused because they hatch in pairs. two at a time from one egg for a total cost of 1 supply. the game does count in halves, but displays supply rounded up. the negative health regen would address the queen walk. (i was thinking about the same solution, but zergs would probably get overlord speed and poop a creep highway in reaction anyways, maybe for an even stronger push, with faster reinforcements).
You can't spawn 0,5 supply thus it is just a technicallity
On November 03 2021 13:48 swarminfestor wrote:
My thought was Queen should not be allowed walking out of creeps, but should be sufficient and reliable to counter the ranged air units like Liberators, Bcs and Void Rays to avoid early harassment.
This would prevent queen walks scenario, or what we called as German taxi from going into effect.
Now you can't defend the third and on some maps you can't defend the main as the creep doesn't connect these. The issue is queen and if bend the game even more around the queen without changing the queen we're back at the mutalisk issue.
What is mutalisk issue? Zerg, Protoss and Terran were all buffed on many occassions because mutalisk was too strong. Phoenix, Mine, Thor, Spore. They may have reverted the regen and return to the good ol' muta from WoL which wasn't as big issue as was the HotS. but they haven't and continued bending around the muta problem. In the end it's "balanced" so it's fine, isn't it? 
The queen is the issue because Zerg stands on the queen. You can't easily solve some of the queen issues because easy solutions won't work without any other changes. E.g. if you remove attack from the queen you have to solve the tankiness of queens(missing now) and the anti-air defense(missing). Also you have to solve the fact that you push Zerg directly to roaches in many cases as you can't defend with ling/queen now.
|
On November 03 2021 17:40 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2021 22:54 bela.mervado wrote:On November 02 2021 22:01 deacon.frost wrote:On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
.. zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc.
Zergling costs 1 supply (technically half, but game doesn't do halves) On November 02 2021 20:46 alpenrahm wrote:
on topic, we could give queens negative health regen while off creep so they lose a bit of their offensive potential and be less of a jack of all trades
Because at the early game the creep is everywhere and the enemy units are only on the creep. C'mon. one zergling does cost 0.5 supply. you are probably confused because they hatch in pairs. two at a time from one egg for a total cost of 1 supply. the game does count in halves, but displays supply rounded up. the negative health regen would address the queen walk. (i was thinking about the same solution, but zergs would probably get overlord speed and poop a creep highway in reaction anyways, maybe for an even stronger push, with faster reinforcements). You can't spawn 0,5 supply thus it is just a technicallity Show nested quote +On November 03 2021 13:48 swarminfestor wrote:
My thought was Queen should not be allowed walking out of creeps, but should be sufficient and reliable to counter the ranged air units like Liberators, Bcs and Void Rays to avoid early harassment.
This would prevent queen walks scenario, or what we called as German taxi from going into effect. Now you can't defend the third and on some maps you can't defend the main as the creep doesn't connect these. The issue is queen and if bend the game even more around the queen without changing the queen we're back at the mutalisk issue. What is mutalisk issue? Zerg, Protoss and Terran were all buffed on many occassions because mutalisk was too strong. Phoenix, Mine, Thor, Spore. They may have reverted the regen and return to the good ol' muta from WoL which wasn't as big issue as was the HotS. but they haven't and continued bending around the muta problem. In the end it's "balanced" so it's fine, isn't it? The queen is the issue because Zerg stands on the queen. You can't easily solve some of the queen issues because easy solutions won't work without any other changes. E.g. if you remove attack from the queen you have to solve the tankiness of queens(missing now) and the anti-air defense(missing). Also you have to solve the fact that you push Zerg directly to roaches in many cases as you can't defend with ling/queen now.
OK
you are right one zergling costs 1 supply.
my bad!
|
i was thinking "is this about scarlett or kerrigan"...
Hmmm
|
On November 03 2021 20:21 KalWarkov wrote:
i was thinking "is this about scarlett or kerrigan"...
Hmmm
I was expecting a nice essay about Scarlett myself :S
|
I have to agree with OP. Not only are the queens too versatile (probably one of the main reason zerg has been the dominant race the past years), but I think the viewer experience suffers a lot from it. With their defensive strength, players will often drone up to at least 60 before any real action begins. I usually fast forward to the 5 minute mark because of this.
|
On November 04 2021 04:34 Calliope wrote:
I have to agree with OP. Not only are the queens too versatile (probably one of the main reason zerg has been the dominant race the past years), but I think the viewer experience suffers a lot from it. With their defensive strength, players will often drone up to at least 60 before any real action begins. I usually fast forward to the 5 minute mark because of this.
The QUEEN is the main reason zerg is a dominant race???? Holy moly what a take.....
Needless to say, every part of this comment seems overexaggerated and just not the case. The first 5 minutes Zerg is usually playing catchup in the worker count because of mules and chronoboost.
|
On November 04 2021 04:34 Calliope wrote:
I have to agree with OP. Not only are the queens too versatile (probably one of the main reason zerg has been the dominant race the past years), but I think the viewer experience suffers a lot from it. With their defensive strength, players will often drone up to at least 60 before any real action begins. I usually fast forward to the 5 minute mark because of this.
Yeah, it's not because there's zero aggressive options for zerg before 6 minutes lol
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
