• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:53
CEST 20:53
KST 03:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists12[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced10Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid20
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail MaNa leaves Team Liquid Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists 2026 GSL Tour plans announced
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A ASL21 General Discussion [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group B Korean KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2711 users

The Zerg Queen put in perspective

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Drahkn
Profile Joined June 2021
196 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-02 02:39:04
November 02 2021 02:26 GMT
#1
I was writing a response to a discussion about the Queen and while I was writing I really came to understand the insanity that is the Queen and the stubbornness of Blizzard. This is what led me to write this post.

Although there are many flaws in SC2's design none compare to that of the Zerg Queen. If you think for a minute about all the jobs the queen does for the Zerg you start to understand the insanity. All this just because Blizzard wants to keep Hydralisk on Lair Tech?

Let's start with what it was designed to do.

Inject larvae, spread creep, heal Zerg units or buildings.(support unit)

As strategy develops in sc2 it seems clear Zerg needs good anti air earlier because of how quick Terran and Protoss make their Starport/Stargate units.

They need the range to deal with Liberator harass and warp prisms, they need good damage to deal with mass phoenix, void rays and banshees.

Queens are also quite capable at fighting ground units because of how durable they are on top of that they can heal each other, they are also good at blocking pathways because of how big they are making it harder for units like hellions to run past them.

They are also psionic so no light or armored damage multipliers work against them.

Because of this combination of healing ability, high hit points and psionic armor zergs started to realize they could rely on mostly pure queen for defense for a lot longer staying safe without having to sacrifice drone production.

This also makes zerg super flexible when facing a attack they were not completely ready for, micro combined with the durability of queens gives zerg the time they need to mass produce the combat units needed to stop the attack. And not only that, they can then be used in an attack like an army of moving photon cannons.

This is the reason Zerg players have managed to be a lot more consistent with their results at the very highest level of play over the years compared to their Terran and especially Protoss counterparts.


I hope Blizzard will make a few more drastic changes to sc2 before they close the book






AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
November 02 2021 03:36 GMT
#2
they need to add the armor/light tag back to queens, that alone will solve many of the problems the queen becomes
Faker is the GOAT!
jpg06051992
Profile Joined July 2015
United States580 Posts
November 02 2021 04:16 GMT
#3
We already have a pointless balance thread ebbing and flowing, do we really need another one? Starcraft is pretty much life for me but that's when I realized it's more like RTS is life, not necessarily Starcraft. If Blizzard wants to let a game like this be pretty much on it's own regarding balance then lets just focus on high quality maps at this point and give the balance thing a rest.

We all know there could be various improvements both large and small that would be great, but I think deep down we know that no matter how much we cry about it in TL.net or Reddit, they just really and truly don't care.

And honestly I think even if they actually cared, they wouldn't have the slightest clue on who to put in charge of the operation, nor is there anyone that the community would agree upon anyways.

Pros? Too biased

Casters? Eh, maybe, I love Wardi and the way he casts but does he necessarily have very high level game knowledge?

The noobs (rank 1 masters and below) we all know can just continue to improve, hell you could probably say that all the way to the tip top of GM if you wanted to.

"SO MANY BANELINGS!"
Riner1212
Profile Joined November 2012
United States337 Posts
November 02 2021 04:16 GMT
#4
you guys can complain as much as you want for balance changes its not happening lol.
Sjow "pretty ez life as protoss"
Seacow
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden99 Posts
November 02 2021 04:26 GMT
#5
I think the durability of queens is a problem, feels like you're punching one of those rubber boxing dolls. But as has been pointed out in other threads - reworking the queen means reworking zerg in its entirety.
Early upgrade enthusiast
Husyelt
Profile Blog Joined May 2020
United States837 Posts
November 02 2021 04:35 GMT
#6
WE NEED TO REWORK MULES. WE NEED TO REWORK WARPGATE. WE NEED TO REWORK QUEENS.

Did I capture the first small steps to balance an asymmetrical designed game? Shit, I should be a AAA game designer. I'm fucking ready, just send me a PM or respond here in the comment section below.
You're getting cynical and that won't do I'd throw the rose tint back on the exploded view
IMSupervisor
Profile Joined June 2016
Australia138 Posts
November 02 2021 05:11 GMT
#7
IMO the only thing Queens might be guilty of is giving Zerg a bit too much breathing room / information in the mid to late game via creep spread, everything else seems fine. And honestly when you watch someone like Clem playing TvZ it's hard to make an argument that Zerg needs to be nerfed (and giving Queens a light or armored tag is a nerf), especially in the early to mid game.
jpg06051992
Profile Joined July 2015
United States580 Posts
November 02 2021 05:24 GMT
#8
On November 02 2021 14:11 IMSupervisor wrote:
IMO the only thing Queens might be guilty of is giving Zerg a bit too much breathing room / information in the mid to late game via creep spread, everything else seems fine. And honestly when you watch someone like Clem playing TvZ it's hard to make an argument that Zerg needs to be nerfed (and giving Queens a light or armored tag is a nerf), especially in the early to mid game.


If I'm wrong I apologize but are you referring to the Dreamhack finals between him and Serral? I gotta admit man, it does look kind of bad but Serral is really just so mind boggling quick, the guy is just playing on a whole other level.
"SO MANY BANELINGS!"
IMSupervisor
Profile Joined June 2016
Australia138 Posts
November 02 2021 06:16 GMT
#9
On November 02 2021 14:24 jpg06051992 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2021 14:11 IMSupervisor wrote:
IMO the only thing Queens might be guilty of is giving Zerg a bit too much breathing room / information in the mid to late game via creep spread, everything else seems fine. And honestly when you watch someone like Clem playing TvZ it's hard to make an argument that Zerg needs to be nerfed (and giving Queens a light or armored tag is a nerf), especially in the early to mid game.


If I'm wrong I apologize but are you referring to the Dreamhack finals between him and Serral? I gotta admit man, it does look kind of bad but Serral is really just so mind boggling quick, the guy is just playing on a whole other level.


All good mate, I was just speaking generally and didn't have any games in mind specifically. I'm not even sure if creep is considered much of an issue anymore at the top level, it was just the only thing I could think of relating to the Queen that could be adjusted which might improve the game. Perhaps it's just my Terran bias speaking though XD
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
Chad3132 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-02 06:37:42
November 02 2021 06:28 GMT
#10
As stated, there are so many things wrong with the core design of SC2 - to focus on the queen specifically seems a little weird.

Before touching units, Blizzard should really look at:
  • reverting starting workers to 6 or so
  • adopting Brood War's "diminishing returns" economy, instead of the current scaling economy

Wait a few minutes (months) then take a look at what needs to change beyond that. I agree Queens do too much, like police! But without Brood-War-esque 1-supply "mediocre" hydras (which won't happen), what do you do?

Like there are just so many issues with the game, from the terrible "roach/marauder/immortal" trifecta of "units that don't shoot up" - an idea sc2 devs had to make it stand on its own from its predecessor - to pathing, dps numbers, speed, splash, individual unit design, zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc.

On top of all that
  • bio is too strong and the most microable units in the game (reminiscent of mutas in Brood War)
  • gateway units suck ass and are purely about mobility over sustainability
  • robo units failed hard when push came to shove, with aesthetic design and narrative intrigue coming in a distant second to gameplay
  • warp-in is ridiculous and, again, another thing that on paper seems cool but actually just warps (heh) the game into something completely bizarre with the company of the warp prism especially
  • splash units that are set-and-forget and can win games in a second (banelings, widow mines, disruptors)

So I dno if the Queen is worth pulling to the side to discuss. There's just so much fundamental badness that works great for spectators but is ultimately quite shit for the players.

Game's too fucking fast and way too reliant on build orders and unit comps.
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2755 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-02 11:09:25
November 02 2021 11:04 GMT
#11
Another whine post on TL "yawn" which covers the usual myths...
As said before, the best way to balance zvt nowadays would be maps if only blizzard will be a bit more active on this part.
As for zvp/tvp, I guess a few tweaks here and there would be nice. (Lurkers, void, blink dt...)
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3489 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-02 11:41:46
November 02 2021 11:34 GMT
#12
I think it's pretty reasonable to bring up the Queen, I mean we see players make 16 of these things quite often.
That's 150*16=2400 minerals. So please respond reasonably as well..

The Psionic tag doesn't have anything to do with having an armour tag. Viper is armoured+psionic, Hight Templar is light+psionic and the Baneling doesn't have armoured, light, nor psionic tag.

The change I've come up with is tailored towards letting the Queen do it's role as a defensive fighting unit and nerfing it's macro ability(creep,) so that using 2400 minerals on Queens actually hampers your macro style quite a bit, while making it so you can defend the shit you need to without having to spend this much into the Queens. Then we should see less Queens, stronger Queens and quite a bit less Creep Spread, unless you REALLY invest into it.
So what I've come up with is as follows:
- Queen starting energy from 25->50(the same starting energy as all other energy units/buildings).
- Queen Creep Tumour cost from 25->50.
- Queen Transfuse now is reverted to it's instant heal version (the heal over time is now instant).

Another change that can also be done is reducing the vision range of Creep Tumours by 1, this can be done without affecting it's ability to spread Creep Tumours, this is because with this change the vision is the same as the creep radius.

It should be said that this I think is an overall nerf to the Queen and so you probably can't do this change without changing something up for T and P too. I definitely don't think Zerg is too powerful atm.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany629 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-02 11:48:51
November 02 2021 11:46 GMT
#13
On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
As stated, there are so many things wrong with the core design of SC2 - to focus on the queen specifically seems a little weird.

Before touching units, Blizzard should really look at:
  • reverting starting workers to 6 or so
  • adopting Brood War's "diminishing returns" economy, instead of the current scaling economy

Wait a few minutes (months) then take a look at what needs to change beyond that. I agree Queens do too much, like police! But without Brood-War-esque 1-supply "mediocre" hydras (which won't happen), what do you do?

Like there are just so many issues with the game, from the terrible "roach/marauder/immortal" trifecta of "units that don't shoot up" - an idea sc2 devs had to make it stand on its own from its predecessor - to pathing, dps numbers, speed, splash, individual unit design, zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc.

On top of all that
  • bio is too strong and the most microable units in the game (reminiscent of mutas in Brood War)
  • gateway units suck ass and are purely about mobility over sustainability
  • robo units failed hard when push came to shove, with aesthetic design and narrative intrigue coming in a distant second to gameplay
  • warp-in is ridiculous and, again, another thing that on paper seems cool but actually just warps (heh) the game into something completely bizarre with the company of the warp prism especially
  • splash units that are set-and-forget and can win games in a second (banelings, widow mines, disruptors)

So I dno if the Queen is worth pulling to the side to discuss. There's just so much fundamental badness that works great for spectators but is ultimately quite shit for the players.

Game's too fucking fast and way too reliant on build orders and unit comps.



List:
1. Bio is fine where it is, it's strong, but it takes ages to get running, with stim being one of the longest upgrades in the game. There are a number of decent counters to it, it offers high octane play and counterplay, it is what makes the game actual fun for terrans and their opponents.
2. gateway units, in particular the Stalker being shit is a direct consequence of warpgate being a thing. Its a design choice there won't be a change coming. Never.
3. Robo units, actually, still see a lot of play and aren't nearly as bad as you make them out to be. Being out of the meta because recently stargate is more popular doesn't necessarily mean that they are in dire need of a buff. Besides, in the lower leagues ( anything below GM) the tosses that actually win games are the ones that field archon immortal (why everyone always complains about gateway units being weak when the archon literally can be warped in anywhere and just flushes all Bio and zerg units down the toilet is a mystery to me. Apparently at this point the whole weak Gateway story has taken on a live of its own)
4. Yes, but would the game actually be more fun if you had to waddle dragoons around? BW reminiscence is a bit of a traditional TL sin, doesn't mean the change would work well for SC2
5. If you set and forget your Mines you ll be in for a surprise when a handful of lings charge your bio. The fact that you set and forget just means that you aren't fast enough to micro, bane and mine micro is a thing, just not in gold:D
6. you are right that picking out the queen without changing the early game dynamics between the races is just silly. Queens are just as strong as they need to be right now just so zerg doesn't outright lose to every silly hellbat all in.

And yes, the game is about speed and execution. Real time is big in sc2, strategy and planning are for in between games and that's just how it is. If you prefer slower RTS where you can adjust your wholesome strategic approach in the game that's fine but you ll never be happy with Sc2 because that's just not what the game wanted to be.

Edit:
on topic, we could give queens negative health regen while off creep so they lose a bit of their offensive potential and be less of a jack of all trades
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-02 13:05:13
November 02 2021 13:01 GMT
#14
On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
As stated, there are so many things wrong with the core design of SC2 - to focus on the queen specifically seems a little weird.

Before touching units, Blizzard should really look at:
  • reverting starting workers to 6 or so
  • adopting Brood War's "diminishing returns" economy, instead of the current scaling economy

Wait a few minutes (months) then take a look at what needs to change beyond that. I agree Queens do too much, like police! But without Brood-War-esque 1-supply "mediocre" hydras (which won't happen), what do you do?


Like there are just so many issues with the game, from the terrible "roach/marauder/immortal" trifecta of "units that don't shoot up" - an idea sc2 devs had to make it stand on its own from its predecessor - to pathing, dps numbers, speed, splash, individual unit design, zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc.
+ Show Spoiler +

On top of all that
  • bio is too strong and the most microable units in the game (reminiscent of mutas in Brood War)
  • gateway units suck ass and are purely about mobility over sustainability
  • robo units failed hard when push came to shove, with aesthetic design and narrative intrigue coming in a distant second to gameplay
  • warp-in is ridiculous and, again, another thing that on paper seems cool but actually just warps (heh) the game into something completely bizarre with the company of the warp prism especially
  • splash units that are set-and-forget and can win games in a second (banelings, widow mines, disruptors)

So I dno if the Queen is worth pulling to the side to discuss. There's just so much fundamental badness that works great for spectators but is ultimately quite shit for the players.

Game's too fucking fast and way too reliant on build orders and unit comps
.

Zergling costs 1 supply (technically half, but game doesn't do halves)

On November 02 2021 20:46 alpenrahm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
As stated, there are so many things wrong with the core design of SC2 - to focus on the queen specifically seems a little weird.

Before touching units, Blizzard should really look at:
  • reverting starting workers to 6 or so
  • adopting Brood War's "diminishing returns" economy, instead of the current scaling economy

Wait a few minutes (months) then take a look at what needs to change beyond that. I agree Queens do too much, like police! But without Brood-War-esque 1-supply "mediocre" hydras (which won't happen), what do you do?

Like there are just so many issues with the game, from the terrible "roach/marauder/immortal" trifecta of "units that don't shoot up" - an idea sc2 devs had to make it stand on its own from its predecessor - to pathing, dps numbers, speed, splash, individual unit design, zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc.

On top of all that
  • bio is too strong and the most microable units in the game (reminiscent of mutas in Brood War)
  • gateway units suck ass and are purely about mobility over sustainability
  • robo units failed hard when push came to shove, with aesthetic design and narrative intrigue coming in a distant second to gameplay
  • warp-in is ridiculous and, again, another thing that on paper seems cool but actually just warps (heh) the game into something completely bizarre with the company of the warp prism especially
  • splash units that are set-and-forget and can win games in a second (banelings, widow mines, disruptors)

So I dno if the Queen is worth pulling to the side to discuss. There's just so much fundamental badness that works great for spectators but is ultimately quite shit for the players.

Game's too fucking fast and way too reliant on build orders and unit comps.



+ Show Spoiler +
List:
1. Bio is fine where it is, it's strong, but it takes ages to get running, with stim being one of the longest upgrades in the game. There are a number of decent counters to it, it offers high octane play and counterplay, it is what makes the game actual fun for terrans and their opponents.
2. gateway units, in particular the Stalker being shit is a direct consequence of warpgate being a thing. Its a design choice there won't be a change coming. Never.
3. Robo units, actually, still see a lot of play and aren't nearly as bad as you make them out to be. Being out of the meta because recently stargate is more popular doesn't necessarily mean that they are in dire need of a buff. Besides, in the lower leagues ( anything below GM) the tosses that actually win games are the ones that field archon immortal (why everyone always complains about gateway units being weak when the archon literally can be warped in anywhere and just flushes all Bio and zerg units down the toilet is a mystery to me. Apparently at this point the whole weak Gateway story has taken on a live of its own)
4. Yes, but would the game actually be more fun if you had to waddle dragoons around? BW reminiscence is a bit of a traditional TL sin, doesn't mean the change would work well for SC2
5. If you set and forget your Mines you ll be in for a surprise when a handful of lings charge your bio. The fact that you set and forget just means that you aren't fast enough to micro, bane and mine micro is a thing, just not in gold:D
6. you are right that picking out the queen without changing the early game dynamics between the races is just silly. Queens are just as strong as they need to be right now just so zerg doesn't outright lose to every silly hellbat all in.

And yes, the game is about speed and execution. Real time is big in sc2, strategy and planning are for in between games and that's just how it is. If you prefer slower RTS where you can adjust your wholesome strategic approach in the game that's fine but you ll never be happy with Sc2 because that's just not what the game wanted to be.


Edit:
on topic, we could give queens negative health regen while off creep so they lose a bit of their offensive potential and be less of a jack of all trades

Because at the early game the creep is everywhere and the enemy units are only on the creep. C'mon.


On November 02 2021 11:26 Drahkn wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I was writing a response to a discussion about the Queen and while I was writing I really came to understand the insanity that is the Queen and the stubbornness of Blizzard. This is what led me to write this post.

Although there are many flaws in SC2's design none compare to that of the Zerg Queen. If you think for a minute about all the jobs the queen does for the Zerg you start to understand the insanity. All this just because Blizzard wants to keep Hydralisk on Lair Tech?

Let's start with what it was designed to do.

Inject larvae, spread creep, heal Zerg units or buildings.(support unit)

As strategy develops in sc2 it seems clear Zerg needs good anti air earlier because of how quick Terran and Protoss make their Starport/Stargate units.

They need the range to deal with Liberator harass and warp prisms, they need good damage to deal with mass phoenix, void rays and banshees.

Queens are also quite capable at fighting ground units because of how durable they are on top of that they can heal each other, they are also good at blocking pathways because of how big they are making it harder for units like hellions to run past them.

They are also psionic so no light or armored damage multipliers work against them.

Because of this combination of healing ability, high hit points and psionic armor zergs started to realize they could rely on mostly pure queen for defense for a lot longer staying safe without having to sacrifice drone production.

This also makes zerg super flexible when facing a attack they were not completely ready for, micro combined with the durability of queens gives zerg the time they need to mass produce the combat units needed to stop the attack. And not only that, they can then be used in an attack like an army of moving photon cannons.

This is the reason Zerg players have managed to be a lot more consistent with their results at the very highest level of play over the years compared to their Terran and especially Protoss counterparts.


I hope Blizzard will make a few more drastic changes to sc2 before they close the book


What do you people need to understand that Blizzard already closed the book. They finished balance patching the game. They're done with balance patches.

It's fun to throw ideas around but they won't touch the game. Especially since the queen was in the discussions for ages now.

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Move on.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
November 02 2021 13:05 GMT
#15
Blizzard didn't close the book, they closed the whole fucking store.

Do they have _any_ games getting good support, or has it all gone to call of duty?
Cereal
bela.mervado
Profile Joined December 2008
Hungary408 Posts
November 02 2021 13:54 GMT
#16
On November 02 2021 22:01 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2021 15:28 RogerChillingworth wrote:
.. zerg not having a 1-food unit in its arsenal (srsly, wtf?), etc.

Zergling costs 1 supply (technically half, but game doesn't do halves)

Show nested quote +
On November 02 2021 20:46 alpenrahm wrote:
on topic, we could give queens negative health regen while off creep so they lose a bit of their offensive potential and be less of a jack of all trades

Because at the early game the creep is everywhere and the enemy units are only on the creep. C'mon.


one zergling does cost 0.5 supply.
you are probably confused because they hatch in pairs. two at a time from one egg for a total cost of 1 supply. the game does count in halves, but displays supply rounded up.

the negative health regen would address the queen walk.
(i was thinking about the same solution, but zergs would probably get overlord speed and poop a creep highway in reaction anyways, maybe for an even stronger push, with faster reinforcements).

112StaminaX
Profile Joined June 2020
37 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-02 14:53:04
November 02 2021 14:50 GMT
#17
i dont think there are any programmers left that are any good to program in legacy languages at blizzard. ive heard they still make games with drag and drop sdks tho still. dont think we are going to see any more major changes.

oh, and, theres nothing wrong with the queen, you really dont want to go back to the way it was , cos i dont miss playing against the same strat everygame and on every map
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
November 02 2021 16:10 GMT
#18
Until you got to the bit about hydralisks on lair tech i thought this was about Kerrigan :D
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
November 02 2021 17:15 GMT
#19
I hope Blizzard will make a few more drastic changes to sc2 before they close the book

i'd rather they didnt

what queens have become is awful design-wise but changing them now would be a bad idea. if we were in alpha or beta, sure, cut your losses and commit to a redesign. but the game is actually pretty good right now overall and should coast off of small tweaks. i dont think redesigns are on the table anymore anyway. probably just small tweaks that have the smallest impact possible on the most successful strategies, just to mix things up.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
confusedzerg
Profile Joined July 2021
Russian Federation102 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-11-02 18:06:58
November 02 2021 18:06 GMT
#20
I am a Westerner and I like homosexuality. Thank you.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 8m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 417
UpATreeSC 118
MindelVK 56
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 22874
Calm 3398
ggaemo 241
Dewaltoss 164
firebathero 134
Soulkey 121
Rock 28
SilentControl 12
Dota 2
ODPixel141
febbydoto16
canceldota4
League of Legends
Reynor13
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps3610
fl0m1930
byalli874
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu276
Other Games
tarik_tv1313
FrodaN792
B2W.Neo617
ceh9482
Mlord343
ArmadaUGS164
Trikslyr152
C9.Mang0118
RotterdaM97
Mew2King56
QueenE36
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL113
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 15
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 33
• RayReign 16
• FirePhoenix10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV268
League of Legends
• Nemesis3412
• TFBlade1701
Other Games
• imaqtpie889
• Scarra442
• Shiphtur163
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
5h 8m
Escore
15h 8m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
16h 8m
OSC
20h 8m
Big Brain Bouts
21h 8m
MaNa vs goblin
Scarlett vs Spirit
Serral vs herO
Korean StarCraft League
1d 8h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 15h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 16h
IPSL
1d 21h
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
2 days
UltrA vs KwarK
Gosudark vs cavapoo
dxtr13 vs HBO
Doodle vs Razz
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL
3 days
StRyKeR vs rasowy
Artosis vs Aether
JDConan vs OyAji
Hawk vs izu
IPSL
3 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-15
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.