• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:41
CEST 14:41
KST 21:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall2HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Retirement From ASL19Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?12FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event16Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster14Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event HomeStory Cup 27 (June 27-29) WardiTV Mondays SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 $200 Biweekly - StarCraft Evolution League #1
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Retirement From ASL [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall ASL20 Preliminary Maps BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] ProLeague LB Final - Saturday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
Game Sound vs. Music: The Im…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 669 users

Ladder map pool updated (5.0.7 patch)

Forum Index > SC2 General
77 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 All last
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-08 11:37:19
April 08 2021 11:27 GMT
#59
On April 08 2021 13:56 [Phantom] wrote:
Wait People hated Deathaura? That one was one of the only maps that wasn't zerg favored, without asinine ans shameless design decisitons to help zerg like an invisible overlord spot over your natural. Zergs actually had to scout early.

I personally really liked the map EXCEPT for the cannon rushes. So I definitely dont hate it but its a big flaw!
~~~~~
MJG
Profile Joined May 2018
United Kingdom926 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-08 12:34:29
April 08 2021 12:29 GMT
#60
On April 08 2021 00:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2021 19:50 MJG wrote:
[image loading]


Blackburn LE is going to produce some peak PvP Starcraft...


Gemini complained about that during the contest, but none of these spots are that bad individually imo--there's just a lot of them. It's not much worse than say Ephemeron.

It's the sheer number of adjacent positions that's the problem.

If I make a Pylon in the middle position against the cliff-edge, it is going to power four different Cannon locations. If I make a Pylon in the middle position behind the minerals, it is going to power three different Cannon locations. For the cost of two Pylons, the Cannon rusher forces their opponent to pull seven Probes to block Cannon placement and/or attack the Pylons directly. This is on top of the two defensive Probes that should be attack-commanded onto each offensive Probe regardless of the map.

I make no secret of the fact that I'm a Cannon rusher, it's right there in my signature, but I'm still going to be vetoing this map because it's too much of a meme.
"You have to play for yourself, you have to play to get better; you can't play to make other people happy, that's not gonna ever sustain you." - NonY
crbox
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1180 Posts
April 08 2021 14:01 GMT
#61
I haven't played much of the new maps, but I feel like the maps are kind of zerg unfavored. I guess I should adapt my playstyle, maybe go for drops on Blackburns as zerg, but in my current playstyle, it feels rough.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
April 08 2021 15:14 GMT
#62
On April 08 2021 21:29 MJG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2021 00:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On April 07 2021 19:50 MJG wrote:
[image loading]


Blackburn LE is going to produce some peak PvP Starcraft...


Gemini complained about that during the contest, but none of these spots are that bad individually imo--there's just a lot of them. It's not much worse than say Ephemeron.

It's the sheer number of adjacent positions that's the problem.

If I make a Pylon in the middle position against the cliff-edge, it is going to power four different Cannon locations. If I make a Pylon in the middle position behind the minerals, it is going to power three different Cannon locations. For the cost of two Pylons, the Cannon rusher forces their opponent to pull seven Probes to block Cannon placement and/or attack the Pylons directly. This is on top of the two defensive Probes that should be attack-commanded onto each offensive Probe regardless of the map.

I make no secret of the fact that I'm a Cannon rusher, it's right there in my signature, but I'm still going to be vetoing this map because it's too much of a meme.


Oh I'm aware. I just don't think those types of cannon rushes based on the main's cliffing have been much of a problem in the past.

These spots are much better for dedicated cannon rushers than pros admittedly (since they give a lot of flexibility against an opponent that expects you to cannon rush every time and tries to blind counter), but that's fine imo.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
April 08 2021 16:35 GMT
#63
On April 09 2021 00:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2021 21:29 MJG wrote:
On April 08 2021 00:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On April 07 2021 19:50 MJG wrote:
[image loading]


Blackburn LE is going to produce some peak PvP Starcraft...


Gemini complained about that during the contest, but none of these spots are that bad individually imo--there's just a lot of them. It's not much worse than say Ephemeron.

It's the sheer number of adjacent positions that's the problem.

If I make a Pylon in the middle position against the cliff-edge, it is going to power four different Cannon locations. If I make a Pylon in the middle position behind the minerals, it is going to power three different Cannon locations. For the cost of two Pylons, the Cannon rusher forces their opponent to pull seven Probes to block Cannon placement and/or attack the Pylons directly. This is on top of the two defensive Probes that should be attack-commanded onto each offensive Probe regardless of the map.

I make no secret of the fact that I'm a Cannon rusher, it's right there in my signature, but I'm still going to be vetoing this map because it's too much of a meme.


Oh I'm aware. I just don't think those types of cannon rushes based on the main's cliffing have been much of a problem in the past.

These spots are much better for dedicated cannon rushers than pros admittedly (since they give a lot of flexibility against an opponent that expects you to cannon rush every time and tries to blind counter), but that's fine imo.

They are problem on the ladder. if people were sick of the old maps because they were old(and because they were Submarine), you won't help the cause by adding a map which is a cannon rushers heaven

Sure, pros won't care, but the ladder population will and it's not like Protoss need a buff in that departement
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
BonitiilloO
Profile Joined June 2013
Dominican Republic614 Posts
April 12 2021 13:01 GMT
#64
this maps are just re skin of old maps.
How may help u?
BonitiilloO
Profile Joined June 2013
Dominican Republic614 Posts
April 12 2021 13:07 GMT
#65
On April 07 2021 08:51 Teoita wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2021 08:49 Jandos wrote:
I just came back after like 7 years pause from starcraft and I am wondering why are all the maps only two positions ? (1v1)
What happened to 4 position maps which are pretty much standard in broodwar. It just promote cheez and cannon rushes 24/7


The 12 worker start in LotV makes it so that there is much less time for scouting before an early rush hits, so 4 player maps are annoying to play at best and awful and not viable at worse. For comparison, imagine playing on a 12 spawn map in BW and having to scout for a 10/15 opening in time.


i think we need to re introduce 4 position maps or 3 position maps, people has been able to improve their scouting and reaction by now. its plain borring to have maps re skin over and over because diversity is very limited.
How may help u?
Legan
Profile Joined June 2017
Finland402 Posts
April 12 2021 14:24 GMT
#66
On April 12 2021 22:01 BonitiilloO wrote:
this maps are just re skin of old maps.


Can you say which old maps the new maps are the reskins of?
Creator of Gresvan, Tropical Sacrifice, Taitalika, and Golden Forge
BonitiilloO
Profile Joined June 2013
Dominican Republic614 Posts
April 12 2021 15:37 GMT
#67
On April 12 2021 23:24 Legan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2021 22:01 BonitiilloO wrote:
this maps are just re skin of old maps.


Can you say which old maps the new maps are the reskins of?



Ever_Dream = Beckett_Industries

same layaout just minor tweaks
How may help u?
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
April 12 2021 16:00 GMT
#68
On April 13 2021 00:37 BonitiilloO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2021 23:24 Legan wrote:
On April 12 2021 22:01 BonitiilloO wrote:
this maps are just re skin of old maps.


Can you say which old maps the new maps are the reskins of?



Ever_Dream = Beckett_Industries

same layaout just minor tweaks


Have you even played the maps? Or watched the maps, or done anything other than lazily and superficially glancing at the overview pic? Beckett plays out completely differently than Ever Dream by virture of being way too small.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
April 12 2021 18:06 GMT
#69
On April 13 2021 01:00 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2021 00:37 BonitiilloO wrote:
On April 12 2021 23:24 Legan wrote:
On April 12 2021 22:01 BonitiilloO wrote:
this maps are just re skin of old maps.


Can you say which old maps the new maps are the reskins of?



Ever_Dream = Beckett_Industries

same layaout just minor tweaks


Have you even played the maps? Or watched the maps, or done anything other than lazily and superficially glancing at the overview pic? Beckett plays out completely differently than Ever Dream by virture of being way too small.

I can see the comparison in terms of the layout of the first four bases, but yeah Beckett's very much a different map than Ever Dream otherwise.

Harstem mentioning that Beckett was made by a terran player makes that map make a lot more sense. There are so many good tank spots on it and small chokes that terran could do tank pushes through.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
BonitiilloO
Profile Joined June 2013
Dominican Republic614 Posts
April 12 2021 18:06 GMT
#70
On April 13 2021 01:00 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2021 00:37 BonitiilloO wrote:
On April 12 2021 23:24 Legan wrote:
On April 12 2021 22:01 BonitiilloO wrote:
this maps are just re skin of old maps.


Can you say which old maps the new maps are the reskins of?



Ever_Dream = Beckett_Industries

same layaout just minor tweaks


completely differently.



yeah sure... lool

User was warned for this post.
How may help u?
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-12 18:17:53
April 12 2021 18:14 GMT
#71
On April 13 2021 03:06 Ben... wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2021 01:00 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On April 13 2021 00:37 BonitiilloO wrote:
On April 12 2021 23:24 Legan wrote:
On April 12 2021 22:01 BonitiilloO wrote:
this maps are just re skin of old maps.


Can you say which old maps the new maps are the reskins of?



Ever_Dream = Beckett_Industries

same layaout just minor tweaks


Have you even played the maps? Or watched the maps, or done anything other than lazily and superficially glancing at the overview pic? Beckett plays out completely differently than Ever Dream by virture of being way too small.

I can see the comparison in terms of the layout of the first four bases, but yeah Beckett's very much a different map than Ever Dream otherwise.

Harstem mentioning that Beckett was made by a terran player makes that map make a lot more sense. There are so many good tank spots on it and small chokes that terran could do tank pushes through.


It's not though--superouman doesn't play Terran afaik (he plays Zerg and Protoss), and the race a mapmaker plays honestly doesn't make a difference in a map. I do agree that the map has problems though (and had said so 14 months ago for that matter).

On April 13 2021 03:06 BonitiilloO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2021 01:00 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On April 13 2021 00:37 BonitiilloO wrote:
On April 12 2021 23:24 Legan wrote:
On April 12 2021 22:01 BonitiilloO wrote:
this maps are just re skin of old maps.


Can you say which old maps the new maps are the reskins of?



Ever_Dream = Beckett_Industries

same layaout just minor tweaks


completely differently.



yeah sure... lool


Not ever being able to play a long macro game is a pretty fundamental difference mate.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
April 12 2021 19:22 GMT
#72
On April 13 2021 03:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2021 03:06 Ben... wrote:
On April 13 2021 01:00 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On April 13 2021 00:37 BonitiilloO wrote:
On April 12 2021 23:24 Legan wrote:
On April 12 2021 22:01 BonitiilloO wrote:
this maps are just re skin of old maps.


Can you say which old maps the new maps are the reskins of?



Ever_Dream = Beckett_Industries

same layaout just minor tweaks


Have you even played the maps? Or watched the maps, or done anything other than lazily and superficially glancing at the overview pic? Beckett plays out completely differently than Ever Dream by virture of being way too small.

I can see the comparison in terms of the layout of the first four bases, but yeah Beckett's very much a different map than Ever Dream otherwise.

Harstem mentioning that Beckett was made by a terran player makes that map make a lot more sense. There are so many good tank spots on it and small chokes that terran could do tank pushes through.


It's not though--superouman doesn't play Terran afaik (he plays Zerg and Protoss), and the race a mapmaker plays honestly doesn't make a difference in a map. I do agree that the map has problems though (and had said so 14 months ago for that matter).

Yeah I was mistaken. I went back and checked and he basically said that the map seemed like it was created by a terran who posts on the battlenet forum and that if you asked every terran on that forum what they wanted in a map they'd end up with Beckett. How he worded the first bit of what he said made it a bit confusing and made it seem like he was being literal.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
MJG
Profile Joined May 2018
United Kingdom926 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-04-13 10:42:51
April 13 2021 10:42 GMT
#73
I'm currently vetoing all the new maps.

I had Oxide, Pillars of Gold and Submarine vetoed last season so I had two spare vetoes right off the bat. Beckett and Blackburn have such severe issues that they were no-brainers. After I'd done that, it came down to a straight fight between Oxide and 2000 Atmospheres. Oxide barely won out, but I'll probably change my mind a few times before the season ends.

In any case, this was really underwhelming after all the waiting...
"You have to play for yourself, you have to play to get better; you can't play to make other people happy, that's not gonna ever sustain you." - NonY
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
April 13 2021 11:18 GMT
#74
Is it just me or are all the new maps T and P favored?
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
buzz_bender
Profile Joined August 2019
445 Posts
April 13 2021 13:09 GMT
#75
On April 13 2021 20:18 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Is it just me or are all the new maps T and P favored?


That is generally the case with new maps until Zergs figure out the optimum strategies for the maps.
Xamo
Profile Joined April 2012
Spain877 Posts
April 14 2021 06:19 GMT
#76
On April 13 2021 20:18 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Is it just me or are all the new maps T and P favored?

Serral said the other day in his stream that they are ok in ZvT and good for Zergs in ZvP.
Perhaps it is not the same for other players though...
My life for Aiur. You got a piece of me, baby. IIIIIIiiiiiii.
Narcind
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Sweden2489 Posts
April 14 2021 20:50 GMT
#77
I think they feel fine for zvp but I am not a fan of zvt on them
SpecKROELLchen
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany151 Posts
April 14 2021 23:12 GMT
#78
On April 13 2021 22:09 buzz_bender wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2021 20:18 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Is it just me or are all the new maps T and P favored?


That is generally the case with new maps until Zergs figure out the optimum strategies for the maps.


I totally agree on this comment. Also in the beginning of each patch or when new maps are released allins are strong, since it takes time to figure out how to hold them and what to scout for. I think to really come to a conclusion we have to wait and play the maps a little bit longer. In the first two weeks some maps might favor one race but after a month it can turn out that it is the opposite way.
1 2 3 4 All last
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 19m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 305
RotterdaM 290
ForJumy 40
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 5464
Sea 5334
Larva 660
EffOrt 542
Pusan 371
Mini 349
BeSt 326
Stork 314
Zeus 223
Last 209
[ Show more ]
Mind 182
ZerO 169
Snow 142
Hyun 113
Light 112
Rush 79
hero 71
Aegong 51
JYJ42
Movie 32
Sharp 22
sSak 18
IntoTheRainbow 11
NaDa 10
Icarus 10
Barracks 9
scan(afreeca) 9
HiyA 9
Noble 8
Shinee 8
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
SilentControl 7
Hm[arnc] 3
Britney 0
Stormgate
NightEnD12
Dota 2
Gorgc4840
qojqva1866
BananaSlamJamma441
XcaliburYe403
febbydoto3
League of Legends
singsing2306
Counter-Strike
x6flipin599
markeloff122
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King174
Westballz14
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor156
Other Games
B2W.Neo763
DeMusliM458
Fuzer 445
hiko429
XaKoH 249
Pyrionflax240
crisheroes239
ArmadaUGS46
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 43
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1526
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3h 19m
OSC
6h 19m
Replay Cast
11h 19m
The PondCast
21h 19m
RSL Revival
21h 19m
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs Cham
WardiTV European League
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
herO vs SHIN
Reynor vs Cure
WardiTV European League
2 days
FEL
2 days
[ Show More ]
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
4 days
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-28
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.