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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On March 19 2021 08:02 Snakestyle11 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2021 14:26 atchosvk wrote:
Well that's a good news, I am happy for that Stats, he must have put the hard work there.
I am however not convinced with a single toss win a major or even premier tournament.
The game is still unbalanced with Zerg reigning supreme for the last 6 years or so.
Starcraft 2 could have been saved but that's too late. Look at the liquipedia by games, starcraft 2 has the lowest number of tournaments, lowest amount of money. Even games like Age of Empires are more popular. Crazy. Fuck you blizzard
User was warned for this post. Mate you are out of your mind. Trap won 3 tournaments in a row. Zest made the finals of Katowise and lost only 2-4 to reynor, to all-ins every game. ( Best player in world thinks he has to risk it all and all-in every game to barely squeeze a win). Stats bopped Serral 3-0 in HSC finals, breaking Serrals HSC win streak at 5. GM ladder is almost 50% protoss world wide if you take out Ukko 30 zerg accounts in GM. But yea sure, Protoss is totally too weak. I would also risk myself and say, PvZ is the easiest matchup in the game right now. If PvZ is your weakest matchup, you need to reevaluate your strategies. You can literally skip early/mid game units and go straight to skytoss with void rays and shield batteries/canons.. This is pretty much broodlord infestor on crack. But its only in PvZ, so its not as obvious. Also, the player base was still blooming in 2012, so it was easier for Zerg to totally dominate when they got OP. Where as now its the same pros we had for 5 years with no up and coming players in Korea, so Protoss doesnt get as invasive as zerg was in 2012.
Tournament level though just no?
Protoss has a huge amount of variations on the Protoss book of bullshit, and on a ladder where you’re matched up against tons of different players all the time it’s going to prosper pretty well.
I’d wager Protoss’ GM percentage would drop an appreciable amount solely by banning barcode IDs and forcing players to have identifiable ones.
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On March 21 2021 08:52 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2021 08:02 Snakestyle11 wrote:On March 18 2021 14:26 atchosvk wrote:
Well that's a good news, I am happy for that Stats, he must have put the hard work there.
I am however not convinced with a single toss win a major or even premier tournament.
The game is still unbalanced with Zerg reigning supreme for the last 6 years or so.
Starcraft 2 could have been saved but that's too late. Look at the liquipedia by games, starcraft 2 has the lowest number of tournaments, lowest amount of money. Even games like Age of Empires are more popular. Crazy. Fuck you blizzard
User was warned for this post. Mate you are out of your mind. Trap won 3 tournaments in a row. Zest made the finals of Katowise and lost only 2-4 to reynor, to all-ins every game. ( Best player in world thinks he has to risk it all and all-in every game to barely squeeze a win). Stats bopped Serral 3-0 in HSC finals, breaking Serrals HSC win streak at 5. GM ladder is almost 50% protoss world wide if you take out Ukko 30 zerg accounts in GM. But yea sure, Protoss is totally too weak. I would also risk myself and say, PvZ is the easiest matchup in the game right now. If PvZ is your weakest matchup, you need to reevaluate your strategies. You can literally skip early/mid game units and go straight to skytoss with void rays and shield batteries/canons.. This is pretty much broodlord infestor on crack. But its only in PvZ, so its not as obvious. Also, the player base was still blooming in 2012, so it was easier for Zerg to totally dominate when they got OP. Where as now its the same pros we had for 5 years with no up and coming players in Korea, so Protoss doesnt get as invasive as zerg was in 2012. Tournament level though just no? Protoss has a huge amount of variations on the Protoss book of bullshit, and on a ladder where you’re matched up against tons of different players all the time it’s going to prosper pretty well. I’d wager Protoss’ GM percentage would drop an appreciable amount solely by banning barcode IDs and forcing players to have identifiable ones.
What make you think at tournament level zerg is imba against toss ? Or easier ? Look at Serral pov against harstem, it's incredibly difficult.
The reasons you mentionned to explain the protoss domination on the ladder are wrong or at least incomplete, barcodes exist since 8 years and the protoss bs were even stronger with the old mineral patches which would last forever but that's the first time we saw such a domination. Balance aside, gaining mmr as protoss is nowadays just easier at low/mid gm level to a point it is not healthy for the game, HM, Lilbow and a lot of top players share this view.
At pro level, TvZ seems a more concerning mu with terrans struggling lately but it could be a trend or fixed by maps.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On March 21 2021 19:28 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2021 08:52 WombaT wrote:On March 19 2021 08:02 Snakestyle11 wrote:On March 18 2021 14:26 atchosvk wrote:
Well that's a good news, I am happy for that Stats, he must have put the hard work there.
I am however not convinced with a single toss win a major or even premier tournament.
The game is still unbalanced with Zerg reigning supreme for the last 6 years or so.
Starcraft 2 could have been saved but that's too late. Look at the liquipedia by games, starcraft 2 has the lowest number of tournaments, lowest amount of money. Even games like Age of Empires are more popular. Crazy. Fuck you blizzard
User was warned for this post. Mate you are out of your mind. Trap won 3 tournaments in a row. Zest made the finals of Katowise and lost only 2-4 to reynor, to all-ins every game. ( Best player in world thinks he has to risk it all and all-in every game to barely squeeze a win). Stats bopped Serral 3-0 in HSC finals, breaking Serrals HSC win streak at 5. GM ladder is almost 50% protoss world wide if you take out Ukko 30 zerg accounts in GM. But yea sure, Protoss is totally too weak. I would also risk myself and say, PvZ is the easiest matchup in the game right now. If PvZ is your weakest matchup, you need to reevaluate your strategies. You can literally skip early/mid game units and go straight to skytoss with void rays and shield batteries/canons.. This is pretty much broodlord infestor on crack. But its only in PvZ, so its not as obvious. Also, the player base was still blooming in 2012, so it was easier for Zerg to totally dominate when they got OP. Where as now its the same pros we had for 5 years with no up and coming players in Korea, so Protoss doesnt get as invasive as zerg was in 2012. Tournament level though just no? Protoss has a huge amount of variations on the Protoss book of bullshit, and on a ladder where you’re matched up against tons of different players all the time it’s going to prosper pretty well. I’d wager Protoss’ GM percentage would drop an appreciable amount solely by banning barcode IDs and forcing players to have identifiable ones. What make you think at tournament level zerg is imba against toss ? Or easier ? Look at Serral pov against harstem, it's incredibly difficult. The reasons you mentionned to explain the protoss domination on the ladder are wrong or at least incomplete, barcodes exist since 8 years and the protoss bs were even stronger with the old mineral patches which would last forever but that's the first time we saw such a domination. Balance aside, gaining mmr as protoss is nowadays just easier at low/mid gm level to a point it is not healthy for the game, HM, Lilbow and a lot of top players share this view. At pro level, TvZ seems a more concerning mu with terrans struggling lately but it could be a trend or fixed by maps.
I’m not sure which way the wind is blowing, or indeed if it’s relatively balanced in PvZ at the minute at the highest level. Certainly the last couple of years the pendulum has been over in the Zerg quadrant.
I don’t think barcodes are the full reason you’re right to say that’s incomplete. Protoss relies the most on trickery as a race by a distance, has the lowest mechanical floor to overcome but also probably the lowest skill ceiling in terms of mechanics. With those factors it’s tailor-made to dominate on ladder where you’re playing a lot of bo1s against random opponents, especially at the kind of low-GM register. You also have a lot of top Protoss players with very different styles, which I imagine makes ladder sessions against a bunch of Protoss players trickier again.
At tournament level those advantages are negated quite a bit, Zergs especially start to enter their final form. I’d wager a Serral/Reynor or a Dark/Rogue’s ability to make reads and deflect whatever trickery you’re able to bring to the table is absolutely leagues beyond a mid GM Zerg’s, whereas the top Protoss execution can only improve so much. Plus didn’t Serral hit something like 7.4K MMR once?
I do agree it’s a problem, have said for years I’d be in favour of making Protoss a bit harder to play but with a higher ceiling, regardless of the specifics.
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Gratz Stats!!, Finally!
Lee's hope next time they prepare for having a korean translator for the winner's interview.. kind of sad.
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EPT
