• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:53
CEST 22:53
KST 05:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun12[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site BW General Discussion [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator Data needed Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8)
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3167 users

Frost Giant dev Q&A w/ Artosis & Pylon supporters

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
CobraVe7nom7
Profile Joined December 2015
36 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-22 13:11:29
October 22 2020 12:53 GMT
#1
The Frost Giant Devs answered a TON of questions and asked for feedback/ideas about their new AAA RTS that's in the works on Ep.#109 of ThePylonShow

We deep dived into topics such as how much will the investors influence the company, the making of an RTS with a low skill floor, but also a high skill ceiling and how many races might be included.


★ Timestamps ★
00. 00:00:00 Intro Video
01. 00:01:42 Welcome back / Show road map / Guest introductions
02. 00:09:32 What does Riot Games have to do with Frost Giant?
03. 00:11:54 Why are RTS games hard to make?
04. 00:17:44 Details of our business model / Building a solid game first
05. 00:23:18 Building a game for longevity that stands the test of time
06. 00:28:53 Making an RTS game that's easier to get into / Game that scales correctly
07. 00:37:55 Can we design an RTS that helps players with good habits?
08. 00:41:12 RTS with a low skill floor, but also a high skill ceiling
09. 00:44:35 What is the focus of game design right now? / Creating content and content tools
10. 00:52:16 How many races will we have? / Loot Boxes? Skin and fun content?
11. 01:00:56 Heroes VS Armies? / Resources and economy models
12. 01:08:00 Unique world design and game depth / The social chat system inside the game
13. 01:15:55 Esports!!!
14. 01:20:10 Patreon Q&A
15. 01:20:38 Dear FGG what should SC2/BW communities do in the meantime?
16. 01:33:56 What could you do differently in a nextgen RTS?
17. 01:38:36 How do you balance an RTS with 3 races?
18. 01:44:46 How can the community support your new studio?
19. 01:47:10 Fantasy or SiFi?
20. 01:48:51 What can be improved from the making SC?
21. 01:53:37 Do we know what the pace of the game will be? / A spiritual successor to WC3?
22. 01:58:56 How important is the solo experience to Frost Giant?
23. 02:01:30 What's it take to make a great campaign?
24. 02:03:52 What's the process in creating factions?
25. 02:09:42 How much will the investors influence the company?
26. 02:11:04 Would you sell merch before release?
27. 02:13:02 Thoughts on a sticky mechanic?
28. 02:14:50 How do you design a salty race?
29. 02:15:58 Obligatory sentient hotdog question
30. 02:16:13 Will AlphaStar appear in a Frost Giant game?
31. 02:19:40 Will you use a preexisting engine?
32. 02:24:44 What is your mission statement? / What areas is the team focusing on?
33. 02:27:25 How are you processing the input from the RTS community?
34. 02:31:56 How was SC2 so successful?
35. 02:35:27 What do you think about addressing some of the common things from SC2?
36. 02:37:55 What would you do if Frost Giant got the rights to SC3?
37. 02:39:47 What are the challenges you'll face as a smaller team?
38. 02:42:14 Thoughts on early access?
39. 02:43:49 What should TPS change its name to when the new RTS takes over Esports?
40. 02:44:37 When will hiring ramp up?
41. 02:45:50 How do you feel about building your own engine?
42. 02:47:23 Are there any plans to develop community tools?
43. 02:48:32 Does military theory from IRL play a role when designing an RTS?
44. 02:51:56 What are your plans to introduce an Alpha?
45. 02:52:48 Is there a target engine/language you guys are looking to build the game with?
46. 02:53:44 Final thoughts / Wrap up / Thanks for watching
47. 02:57:19 Day[9] - THAT'S MY MOM! (Clip used with permission)
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10710 Posts
October 27 2020 21:51 GMT
#2
Amazing, I cannot wait to see the first concepts of this game! This is like team pure passion, I'm sure they will do a lot better for the community than Activision Blizzard has done.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2574 Posts
October 28 2020 01:45 GMT
#3
I'm excited but we are so far away from the release of their game. The hype is real but will be short-lived until we have something more tangible.
Monochromatic
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States998 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-28 02:28:49
October 28 2020 02:27 GMT
#4
The biggest question I have is what will you do to set your game apart from the competition and put it in a place to succeed? SC2 had absolutely everything going for it: a thriving, pre-existing esports scene, a marketing budget larger than Frost Giant's enterprise value, tons of hype and passion leading to many independent tournament leagues (NASL, IPL, TSL), and over a year of being the undisputed #1 game on twitch - and despite all of this SC2 has been a failure in terms of an esport, compared to both Brood War (which is still going strong) and League. More people play the co-op mode than the RTS!

How is this studio going to make a modern, competitive RTS and expect to succeed when everything else in the genre has failed? What secret ingredient will Frost Giant use to make their game stand out? If they have an answer to that, I'll be looking forward to their product - if they don't then I'm left to believe this whole venture is a waste of time a la Iron Harvest, Grey Goo, or Dawn of War 3, to name a few.
MC: "Guys I need your support! iam poor make me nerd baller" __________________________________________RIP Violet
Heroprime2
Profile Joined October 2020
1 Post
October 28 2020 08:37 GMT
#5
On October 28 2020 11:27 Monochromatic wrote:
SC2 had absolutely everything going for it: a thriving, pre-existing esports scene, a marketing budget larger than Frost Giant's enterprise value, tons of hype and passion leading to many independent tournament leagues (NASL, IPL, TSL), and over a year of being the undisputed #1 game on twitch - and despite all of this SC2 has been a failure in terms of an esport, compared to both Brood War (which is still going strong) and League. More people play the co-op mode than the RTS!


Imagine actually thinking this. Unbelievable.
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2402 Posts
October 28 2020 09:00 GMT
#6
What's incorrect about that statement? It's subjective what counts as "a failure of an esport" I guess but the underlying point in that post seems sound to me.
The original Bogus fan.
True_Spike
Profile Joined July 2004
Poland3430 Posts
October 28 2020 13:27 GMT
#7
In terms of monetary value, SC2 esport surpassed BW a long time ago. In terms of an active player base it's orders of magnitude better. in terms of number of tournaments and their relative size it's the same.

I love BW to bits, but don't let that cloud your judgement.
Monochromatic
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States998 Posts
October 28 2020 16:24 GMT
#8
On October 28 2020 22:27 True_Spike wrote:
In terms of monetary value, SC2 esport surpassed BW a long time ago. In terms of an active player base it's orders of magnitude better. in terms of number of tournaments and their relative size it's the same.

I love BW to bits, but don't let that cloud your judgement.


Here's the thing: I can go to the store right now and buy a box of cheezits with an Overwatch character on the front telling me to watch OWL. A major US fast food chain (buffalo wild wings) is an official sponsor of LCS. These are mainstream brands and these esports have mainstream recognition. Brood War had an even higher level of mainstream recognition in Korea prior to Starcraft 2.

Now, read this article about investing in Esports. Activision Blizzard is the first name listed, for Overwatch and Call of Duty. Starcraft is not mentioned. The fact is that over the past decade Starcraft has lost it's brand value as an esport. No one cares anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love starcraft. But when you look at the growth of other esports this past decade and then take a look at starcraft, well, I don't see how you can call it anything but a failure.
MC: "Guys I need your support! iam poor make me nerd baller" __________________________________________RIP Violet
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2574 Posts
October 28 2020 23:27 GMT
#9
On October 29 2020 01:24 Monochromatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2020 22:27 True_Spike wrote:
In terms of monetary value, SC2 esport surpassed BW a long time ago. In terms of an active player base it's orders of magnitude better. in terms of number of tournaments and their relative size it's the same.

I love BW to bits, but don't let that cloud your judgement.


Here's the thing: I can go to the store right now and buy a box of cheezits with an Overwatch character on the front telling me to watch OWL. A major US fast food chain (buffalo wild wings) is an official sponsor of LCS. These are mainstream brands and these esports have mainstream recognition. Brood War had an even higher level of mainstream recognition in Korea prior to Starcraft 2.

Now, read this article about investing in Esports. Activision Blizzard is the first name listed, for Overwatch and Call of Duty. Starcraft is not mentioned. The fact is that over the past decade Starcraft has lost it's brand value as an esport. No one cares anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love starcraft. But when you look at the growth of other esports this past decade and then take a look at starcraft, well, I don't see how you can call it anything but a failure.

These are good points but I really think there is a limitation for RTS games as major esports competing with other genres. I would love for Frost Giant to prove this trend wrong.
therealtucker
Profile Joined October 2020
United States1 Post
October 30 2020 18:21 GMT
#10
Now, read this article about investing in Esports. Activision Blizzard is the first name listed, for Overwatch and Call of Duty. Starcraft is not mentioned. The fact is that over the past decade Starcraft has lost it's brand value as an esport. No one cares anymore
.

I don't know if starcraft being smaller than OW and CoD means that 'no one cares' or that it's a failure of an esport. Is rugby a failure of a sport because soccer, football, and tons of other sports are more popular? Is it a failure because there are certain sponsors that would for sure put their money towards the NBA or NFL first? I'm not saying that things couldn't be better, but to argue that SC2 is a failure doesn't seem correct.
ilax30
Profile Joined November 2019
720 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-10-30 19:18:06
October 30 2020 19:17 GMT
#11
On October 29 2020 01:24 Monochromatic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2020 22:27 True_Spike wrote:
In terms of monetary value, SC2 esport surpassed BW a long time ago. In terms of an active player base it's orders of magnitude better. in terms of number of tournaments and their relative size it's the same.

I love BW to bits, but don't let that cloud your judgement.


Here's the thing: I can go to the store right now and buy a box of cheezits with an Overwatch character on the front telling me to watch OWL. A major US fast food chain (buffalo wild wings) is an official sponsor of LCS. These are mainstream brands and these esports have mainstream recognition. Brood War had an even higher level of mainstream recognition in Korea prior to Starcraft 2.

Now, read this article about investing in Esports. Activision Blizzard is the first name listed, for Overwatch and Call of Duty. Starcraft is not mentioned. The fact is that over the past decade Starcraft has lost it's brand value as an esport. No one cares anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I love starcraft. But when you look at the growth of other esports this past decade and then take a look at starcraft, well, I don't see how you can call it anything but a failure.


Judging by your anecdote it looks like you think OW succeeded with their esport scene? If anything OWL has taught has how NOT to get your game e-sports ready, what a disaster that is
AdrianHealeyy
Profile Joined June 2015
114 Posts
October 31 2020 22:53 GMT
#12
I mean, more and more research shows that the majority of gamers - a recent survey in Belgium among youngsters for example - that only about 13% prefer single player and the vast majority (over 60%) want to game 'together with friends'.

Single player RTS just has a player potential of 1/5th of coop stuff like fortnite, LoL and Overwatch.
Odoakar
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia1837 Posts
November 01 2020 17:05 GMT
#13
Unfortunately, the good old RTS games are dead. Players nowadays find them too hard and too anxiety inducing to play solo. it' much easier to play with 4 other guys where the weight of losing and winning is not squarely on yourself.

BW will be the last RTS game with a decent pro scene. I expect SC2 scene to die off in a year or two. BW will probably continue as long as Kespa wants it.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26760 Posts
November 02 2020 02:38 GMT
#14
On November 02 2020 02:05 Odoakar wrote:
Unfortunately, the good old RTS games are dead. Players nowadays find them too hard and too anxiety inducing to play solo. it' much easier to play with 4 other guys where the weight of losing and winning is not squarely on yourself.

BW will be the last RTS game with a decent pro scene. I expect SC2 scene to die off in a year or two. BW will probably continue as long as Kespa wants it.

Why are they dead?

The Soulslike genre is basically predicted on hard games from people who want a challenge and became rather large.

Just takes one good game to capture a pretty sizeable niche market really.

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
chuDr3t4
Profile Joined April 2010
Russian Federation484 Posts
November 02 2020 06:39 GMT
#15
On November 02 2020 02:05 Odoakar wrote:
Unfortunately, the good old RTS games are dead. Players nowadays find them too hard and too anxiety inducing to play solo. it' much easier to play with 4 other guys where the weight of losing and winning is not squarely on yourself.

BW will be the last RTS game with a decent pro scene. I expect SC2 scene to die off in a year or two. BW will probably continue as long as Kespa wants it.

Are you aware that Kespa is long dead?
I live in Russia. I wear the fufaika, valenoks and the shapka-ushanka with the red star. I drink vodka straight from the samovar, and my riding bear plays on the balalaika.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50898 Posts
November 02 2020 09:53 GMT
#16
On November 02 2020 02:05 Odoakar wrote:
Unfortunately, the good old RTS games are dead. Players nowadays find them too hard and too anxiety inducing to play solo. it' much easier to play with 4 other guys where the weight of losing and winning is not squarely on yourself.

BW will be the last RTS game with a decent pro scene. I expect SC2 scene to die off in a year or two. BW will probably continue as long as Kespa wants it.


Kespa, in my BW?

shieeeeet we haven't had that in ages.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
Ziggy
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
South Korea2106 Posts
November 02 2020 09:54 GMT
#17
damn this is good i cant tell if hes baiting or not
WriterDefeating a sandwich only makes it tastier. @imjustziggy
CadenZie
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)545 Posts
November 02 2020 11:31 GMT
#18
long live kespa
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 7m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 156
JuggernautJason74
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 16280
Calm 3178
Mini 466
Dewaltoss 87
ggaemo 76
yabsab 20
NaDa 16
scan(afreeca) 15
Dota 2
monkeys_forever574
Counter-Strike
fl0m6433
pashabiceps2188
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0175
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu463
Other Games
gofns4924
Grubby4175
tarik_tv3270
summit1g3214
FrodaN926
RotterdaM565
shahzam474
KnowMe98
UpATreeSC83
QueenE48
ZombieGrub29
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV294
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream80
StarCraft 2
angryscii 24
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 90
• Adnapsc2 17
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 40
• HerbMon 29
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota254
Other Games
• imaqtpie1347
• Shiphtur303
• tFFMrPink 18
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 7m
Replay Cast
12h 7m
RSL Revival
13h 7m
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
14h 7m
Percival vs Shameless
ByuN vs YoungYakov
IPSL
19h 7m
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
22h 7m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 13h
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 17h
BSL
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
IPSL
1d 22h
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
4 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
5 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
6 days
Escore
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-30
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.