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I think the RTS genre is becoming more and more a niche because no big studio is putting serious effort in trying to renew the genre (just like SC2 or W3 did in their time). There a is serious lack of imagination (or motivation) from game designers in this area.
After all, it's always fun to see big army fighting, and I'm pretty sure tons of people enjoy that. My son loves playing Totally Accurate Battle Simulator (I know it's not an RTS), but SC2 UI is just too complexe to begin with .
A new RTS should have a more progressive learning curve where ultra casual player would not have to create control group, micro anything, etc. And only when you reach a higher league, you start to micro because it gives you better army control. It does not have to be a different game, it could be implemented at the level of the UI.
I know some people are against that, because they think that people won't learn the "true" game. But casuals don't care about being grand master, micro, etc. they just want to have fun.
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On October 19 2020 14:57 heqat wrote:
A new RTS should have a more progressive learning curve where ultra casual player would not have to create control group, micro anything, etc. And only when you reach a higher league, you start to micro because it gives you better army control. It does not have to be a different game, it could be implemented at the level of the UI.
I agree, I thinkm it is the biggest question when making an RTS, how to inroduce the game not too slowly to experienced players but also not too fast for novices. You need a slow learning curve with a lot of different modes to learn the game.
However one thing I disagree with, ultra casual players in starcraft 2 never "had" to create control groups or micro anything. When I played starcraft 1 I basically didn't create control groups or micro. You can totally play like that in starcraft 2. Especially the first two campaigns are so easy there is basically no must, you can mostly ignore macro and focus on micro instead too if you want. Thats tthe beauty of a game like starcraft 2,you can play however you wanta and just have fun.
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In brood war the casual players would mostly play comp stomps, ums maps, bgh, etc as a way of learning the game.
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Lets be realistic. RTS as a genre is seeing less and less spotlight because many younger players/kids these days prefer to play easier games like League. Dont misunderstand me, I love league, been playing it for about 7 years. But there is also no denying how easy it is compared to an RTS game. Why would kids play a significantly more difficult game that is not that famous, as opposed to a far easier game that is seriously popular?
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 19 2020 18:01 5ecured wrote:
Lets be realistic. RTS as a genre is seeing less and less spotlight because many younger players/kids these days prefer to play easier games like League. Dont misunderstand me, I love league, been playing it for about 7 years. But there is also no denying how easy it is compared to an RTS game. Why would kids play a significantly more difficult game that is not that famous, as opposed to a far easier game that is seriously popular?
AoE II HD, AOE:DE and AOE II:DE sold over 5 m copies. Total war is selling quite well too. IIRC They are billions is a quite succesful RTS either
RTS is nowhere near the dead end like may are suggesting. People are buying and playing RTS games. So can everybody starts to name what all of you have the issue with? That nobody is playing these games on a bigger scale competetively? (at least compared to SC2)
RTS as a genre is alive. Unless you start naming the problem by its real name, you are fixing something that doesn't need a fix.
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On October 18 2020 09:13 whiterabbit wrote:
Didn't notice anyone posting KR/CN reactions to news. What are their pros, casters, SC personalities saying bout all of this?
The Koreans doesn't really follow sc2 and sc2 news, I mean the last time I checked AfreecaTV it had zero Sc2 viewers
On October 19 2020 18:01 5ecured wrote:
Lets be realistic. RTS as a genre is seeing less and less spotlight because many younger players/kids these days prefer to play easier games like League. Dont misunderstand me, I love league, been playing it for about 7 years. But there is also no denying how easy it is compared to an RTS game. Why would kids play a significantly more difficult game that is not that famous, as opposed to a far easier game that is seriously popular?
But will esport be driven by kids and weebs for ever? I don't believe so, the adults will enter the esport audience and drive it like they drive irl sport
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Does it mean all the stuff quickly gonna be free ? 
Even the old war chests, or special portraits unavailable since a while ?? 
If they re not free, at least buyable, it would be great.
I could give all my moneys for "Snake Marine"
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Starcraft 2 was such a blast that Starcraft 3 will be fought with sticks and stones!
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I am gonna keep on playing till the day my hands fall off.
This game has done so many good and amazing things and it does not matter if blizzard is backing the game up or not.
The SC2 community is incredibly strong and there will always be people to enjoy starcraft with.
I am a very competitive person and of course i am not super happy about those changes, because it makes stuff more difficult money wise. We need to support our professional players to keep sc2 esports alive! But i am super relaxed, that we will be able to fund our own tournaments etc. if necessary.
I will keep on playing and i bet a lot of other people will do the same.
Nothing is stopping me to finally crack 5,4k MMR lol
Love you all guys, the community is a gift! Never take it for granted!
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To be honest, Blizzard deserves all that comes their way. Years after years matchmaking of team games is still broken, full team vs random team is just not fair. So all that remains is an enjoyable game for 1vs1 guys.
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On October 20 2020 06:46 SC-Shield wrote:
To be honest, Blizzard deserves all that comes their way. Years after years matchmaking of team games is still broken, full team vs random team is just not fair. So all that remains is an enjoyable game for 1vs1 guys.
Arranged team versus random is fair as long both teams have a similar MMR.
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I wonder why this decision came about now. If the in-game population statistics are accurate SC2 has as many players as it did 4-5 years ago. It's hard for me to imagine that coop isn't profitable for them given how many people buy the p2p commanders.
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Hoping that the community just stays strong and doesn't let this news affect their love for the game. Starcraft as a franchise is still doing quite well. Brood War is still hugely popular and Blizzard is still going to do balance changes which lets face it, matters a hell of a lot more then nonsense like skins and war chests and whatever the hell else casual crap Blizzard thinks that they players want.
Not saying I don't think some of the skins aren't really cool, they definitely are, but as long as their are talented map makers that have a passion for the game and the community, we already know we are taken care of on that regard, this seasons map pool is absolutely freaking amazing and makes previous popular maps just look plain vanilla.
Balance isn't even in that bad of a spot, we haven't had any glaring unwinnable. "Brood Lord/Festor" era for any race for awhile now, it's pretty hard to deny that Protoss was, is and probably forever will be the weakest race at the top, and honestly that's okay, there is always one race at the bottom.
Terrans dominated the bonjwa scene for BW, but historically speaking, Terran actually performed only in the + regarding winrates vs. Zerg on Python, and Protoss was actually quite strong vs Terran on all maps but were imbalanced vs. Terran on Python.
I just hope the community keeps doing it's thing, the current tournaments are producing outstanding quality games.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On October 20 2020 08:45 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2020 06:46 SC-Shield wrote:
To be honest, Blizzard deserves all that comes their way. Years after years matchmaking of team games is still broken, full team vs random team is just not fair. So all that remains is an enjoyable game for 1vs1 guys. Arranged team versus random is fair as long both teams have a similar MMR.
MMR isn't everything in the teamgames.
On October 20 2020 13:43 jpg06051992 wrote:
Hoping that the community just stays strong and doesn't let this news affect their love for the game. Starcraft as a franchise is still doing quite well. Brood War is still hugely popular and Blizzard is still going to do balance changes which lets face it, matters a hell of a lot more then nonsense like skins and war chests and whatever the hell else casual crap Blizzard thinks that they players want.
Not saying I don't think some of the skins aren't really cool, they definitely are, but as long as their are talented map makers that have a passion for the game and the community, we already know we are taken care of on that regard, this seasons map pool is absolutely freaking amazing and makes previous popular maps just look plain vanilla.
Balance isn't even in that bad of a spot, we haven't had any glaring unwinnable. "Brood Lord/Festor" era for any race for awhile now, it's pretty hard to deny that Protoss was, is and probably forever will be the weakest race at the top, and honestly that's okay, there is always one race at the bottom.
Terrans dominated the bonjwa scene for BW, but historically speaking, Terran actually performed only in the + regarding winrates vs. Zerg on Python, and Protoss was actually quite strong vs Terran on all maps but were imbalanced vs. Terran on Python.
I just hope the community keeps doing it's thing, the current tournaments are producing outstanding quality games.
Why is Protoss the weakest? This should be interesting 
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On October 20 2020 06:46 SC-Shield wrote:
To be honest, Blizzard deserves all that comes their way. Years after years matchmaking of team games is still broken, full team vs random team is just not fair. So all that remains is an enjoyable game for 1vs1 guys.
My guess is that arragend teams have slightly lower MMR than random teams so it is about equal. Haven't played random teams in ages so really not sure but I think they said something like this back in the day
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On October 20 2020 00:30 Haku wrote:
I am gonna keep on playing till the day my hands fall off.
This game has done so many good and amazing things and it does not matter if blizzard is backing the game up or not.
The SC2 community is incredibly strong and there will always be people to enjoy starcraft with.
I am a very competitive person and of course i am not super happy about those changes, because it makes stuff more difficult money wise. We need to support our professional players to keep sc2 esports alive! But i am super relaxed, that we will be able to fund our own tournaments etc. if necessary.
I will keep on playing and i bet a lot of other people will do the same.
Nothing is stopping me to finally crack 5,4k MMR lol
Love you all guys, the community is a gift! Never take it for granted!
This. This is the kind of positivity I've been looking for in this thread. Plenty of others like it have sprung up but this one just hit exactly where we need it to.
You're so right, this is the perfect place for competitive people. I got into this game thanks to my older brother, who peaked at diamond league before he sorta lost the time to commit to it. Now I've gotten to diamond, and what's he tell me?
"Dude nice, maybe you can finally break through into Masters like I never could."
That feeling resonates through this news, and it's great to see it resonate with other people. It's stuff like this that will keep the community going strong :D
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I guess I am the only one excited about this ?
3 years of minor updates and tweaks are coming to Starcraft2
We are about to witness some of the best starcraft 2 we have ever seen in 2022, and even if 2023 is the end , it will be worth it.
Pros can now poor hours into practice without fear of becoming something to Byun, who is still amazingly good, but we all know his art of reapers , that no one could come close to, was forever balanced patched in exchange for his victory road run.
Imagine hitting that stride without that fear, imagine being able to practice knowing that confidence.
I am just so happy to know starcraft 2 tournament contracts will remain intact, and I if we are lucky activision won't try to double dip when this game becomes the front page of Esports once again.
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On October 19 2020 18:01 5ecured wrote:
Lets be realistic. RTS as a genre is seeing less and less spotlight because many younger players/kids these days prefer to play easier games like League. Dont misunderstand me, I love league, been playing it for about 7 years. But there is also no denying how easy it is compared to an RTS game. Why would kids play a significantly more difficult game that is not that famous, as opposed to a far easier game that is seriously popular?
I want to take issue with this attitude. Not too long ago, computer games used to be something for the nerdiest kids only. I would be hard-pressed to find more than a dozen people at my high school who knew what StarCraft was in 2001, and they were all my friends. Now, virtually every high schooler and their mom knows what fortnite is. You have soccer moms who never played games growing up playing Minecraft with their kids because that's all they want to do.
PC games have become the default form of entertainment for the younger generation because they have adapted to meet the demands of a wider audience. They are basically replacing television as another form of slightly more interactive, but still mindless, entertainment.
Entertainment and hobbies are two completely different market sectors that video games exist in. The hobbyist sector still represents the same small nerdy group that it always has. Hobbyists want games that challenge them and make them try over and over again until they finally improve. The entertainment crowd just wants to get rewards for clicking buttons.
There are still as many kids looking for challenging video games as there ever has been. But companies that create video games have learned how to make much more money by creating for the entertainment sector. Even hobbyists will still buy entertainment games, because we still need a break from our hobbies once in a while and just want some mindless entertainment.
The issue, of course, is that now that game companies have learned how to effectively design games for the entertainment sector, there is no reason to design for the hobbyists. A well-designed, well balanced and artfully written RTS is much more difficult to build than a MOBA or FPS arena game, and it appeals to a much smaller market. Given the costs of building physics engines and graphics layers from scratch, the cost of making a modern AAA title is just not feasible for the hobbyist market.
I am convinced RTS builders who set expectations of competing in the entertainment business are destined to fail. You could get a lot of kids to play StarCraft 3 for sure. But there won't be nearly as many of them as there will be playing yet another game where you click on the bad guy and get loot. New RTS projects need to be scaled to the market potential of their audience, the hobbyist sector, and not be operating under some illusion that they are going to get the kind of numbers that entertainment sector games get.
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On October 20 2020 16:50 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2020 08:45 [F_]aths wrote:On October 20 2020 06:46 SC-Shield wrote:
To be honest, Blizzard deserves all that comes their way. Years after years matchmaking of team games is still broken, full team vs random team is just not fair. So all that remains is an enjoyable game for 1vs1 guys. Arranged team versus random is fair as long both teams have a similar MMR. MMR isn't everything in the teamgames. Show nested quote +On October 20 2020 13:43 jpg06051992 wrote:
Hoping that the community just stays strong and doesn't let this news affect their love for the game. Starcraft as a franchise is still doing quite well. Brood War is still hugely popular and Blizzard is still going to do balance changes which lets face it, matters a hell of a lot more then nonsense like skins and war chests and whatever the hell else casual crap Blizzard thinks that they players want.
Not saying I don't think some of the skins aren't really cool, they definitely are, but as long as their are talented map makers that have a passion for the game and the community, we already know we are taken care of on that regard, this seasons map pool is absolutely freaking amazing and makes previous popular maps just look plain vanilla.
Balance isn't even in that bad of a spot, we haven't had any glaring unwinnable. "Brood Lord/Festor" era for any race for awhile now, it's pretty hard to deny that Protoss was, is and probably forever will be the weakest race at the top, and honestly that's okay, there is always one race at the bottom.
Terrans dominated the bonjwa scene for BW, but historically speaking, Terran actually performed only in the + regarding winrates vs. Zerg on Python, and Protoss was actually quite strong vs Terran on all maps but were imbalanced vs. Terran on Python.
I just hope the community keeps doing it's thing, the current tournaments are producing outstanding quality games. Why is Protoss the weakest? This should be interesting
Pretty sure Protoss has had the weakest representation on both ladder and at the tip top level of play, there has been far more Zerg and Terran champions then Protoss champions.
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