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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On July 11 2020 10:07 tskarzyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 09:57 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2020 09:36 tskarzyn wrote:On July 11 2020 09:27 JimmiC wrote:On July 11 2020 09:24 tskarzyn wrote:On July 11 2020 09:04 Wombat_NI wrote:
‘Maybe we should just make sending DPs or sexually charged communications without written consent illegal?’
Swapping written for verbal also here but they already are in many places? Wouldn't be surprised if this was the case in the UK or EU. They don't protect speech and have arrested people for making offensive jokes on social media. Site please, this sounds made up. Now if you are talking about making threats maybe. Otherwise it is only authoritarian countries that do this. Also the point of free speech was not so everyone could be an asshole, it was so that people could voice displeasure with government, churches and other forms of power. Look into UK and EU hate speech enforcement if you don't believe me. Do you want to live in a society where being an asshole is a crime? Do you know why the US implemented limits on free speech? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/arrests-for-offensive-facebook-and-twitter-posts-soar-in-london-a7064246.html?amp Where people make hate threats about Syrian refugees and jokes about blowing up an airport. Sounds like your definition of being an asshole and mine are very different. Free speech means you are free to make it, not that there is no responsibility to what you say. Like you are free to drive your car but not free to do so drunk or at excessive speeds. Buzz words like racism and hate speech are meaningless, so here is some dark humor that led to an arrest: "So a bin lorry has apparently driven in 100 people in Glasgow eh, probably the most trash it’s picked up in one day." Also, you want to arrest people for being critical of immigration? Where do you draw the line. Lots of mini dictators in this thread.
No, we don’t stop strawmanning. Literally nobody is saying that here
If you put as much energy into making the world safer for people to avoid harassment as you do to bizarre hypotheticals the world might be a better place.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out
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On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out
Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other.
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On July 11 2020 12:33 tskarzyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other.
Disagree. We've obviously come a long way since 50, 100, and 200 years ago, and there's no reason to think we can't continue to make progress. Each new generation, as a whole, is more progressive in accepting others and considering equality and equity. This is through education and experience. It just takes time.
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There any statistics on the recidivism rates of people arrested for these "tasteless jokes"?
On July 11 2020 12:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 12:33 tskarzyn wrote:On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other. Disagree. We've obviously come a long way since 50, 100, and 200 years ago, and there's no reason to think we can't continue to make progress. Each new generation, as a whole, is more progressive in accepting others and considering equality and equity. This is through education and experience. It just takes time.
Important to remember it can and has gone backwards throughout history. It doesn't move forward or avoid that backsliding without constant diligent and deliberate efforts (that receive endless criticism from advocates of the status quo and more moderate progress).
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On July 11 2020 12:58 GreenHorizons wrote:There any statistics on the recidivism rates of people arrested for these "tasteless jokes"? Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 12:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2020 12:33 tskarzyn wrote:On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other. Disagree. We've obviously come a long way since 50, 100, and 200 years ago, and there's no reason to think we can't continue to make progress. Each new generation, as a whole, is more progressive in accepting others and considering equality and equity. This is through education and experience. It just takes time. Important to remember it can and has gone backwards throughout history. It doesn't move forward or avoid that backsliding without constant diligent and deliberate efforts (that receive endless criticism from advocates of the status quo and more moderate progress).
At the risk of drawing some hate... Why is equity the "Progressive" thing at all? FFS you literally watch an esport with prize pools that reward the best players the most, which in turn enables them to focus on the game and become even better.
This equality movement is daily being capitalized on by people and companies who are using your naivete to elevate themselves. Neuro, Artosis, literally everyone who can make themselves look good during this time will do so. (If the public figures aren't thinking in terms of risk and reward, they won't have gotten to be popular enough to have a voice you're paying attention to.)
The zeitgeist of our age is apparently about creating the illusion of fairness and equality by demonizing select people and behaviors through internet mob rule, and then patting yourselves on the backs for having "necessary conversations" until you go back to doing whatever selfish things you were doing before you got distracted by the drama. In reality, you're not better than others just because you're siding with the apparent majority... At least not objectively.
The anti-harassment stuff isn't really about equality or equity. It's about redistributing authority.
You're essentially deciding, "Men should not be allowed to interfere with women's lives via X actions." That, of course, comes at a cost to the potential for the man in question to wrestle authority from the world. You're certainly not making the world "Better" for him. Apparently, that man's perspective isn't important when calculating what's better.
Look, I don't really have a horse in this race. But most people who jump onto one of these "It's the right way to do things because it's just obviously so right and if you disagree you'll get lit on fire" trends are being played.
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On July 11 2020 13:45 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 12:58 GreenHorizons wrote:There any statistics on the recidivism rates of people arrested for these "tasteless jokes"? On July 11 2020 12:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2020 12:33 tskarzyn wrote:On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other. Disagree. We've obviously come a long way since 50, 100, and 200 years ago, and there's no reason to think we can't continue to make progress. Each new generation, as a whole, is more progressive in accepting others and considering equality and equity. This is through education and experience. It just takes time. Important to remember it can and has gone backwards throughout history. It doesn't move forward or avoid that backsliding without constant diligent and deliberate efforts (that receive endless criticism from advocates of the status quo and more moderate progress). At the risk of drawing some hate... Why is equity the "Progressive" thing at all? FFS you literally watch an esport with prize pools that reward the best players the most, which in turn enables them to focus on the game and become even better. This equality movement is daily being capitalized on by people and companies who are using your naivete to elevate themselves. Neuro, Artosis, literally everyone who can make themselves look good during this time will do so. (If the public figures aren't thinking in terms of risk and reward, they won't have gotten to be popular enough to have a voice you're paying attention to.) The zeitgeist of our age is apparently about creating the illusion of fairness and equality by demonizing select people and behaviors through internet mob rule, and then patting yourselves on the backs for having "necessary conversations" until you go back to doing whatever selfish things you were doing before you got distracted by the drama. In reality, you're not better than others just because you're siding with the apparent majority... At least not objectively. The anti-harassment stuff isn't really about equality or equity. It's about redistributing authority. You're essentially deciding, "Men should not be allowed to interfere with women's lives via X actions." That, of course, comes at a cost to the potential for the man in question to wrestle authority from the world. You're certainly not making the world "Better" for him. Apparently, that man's perspective isn't important when calculating what's better. Look, I don't really have a horse in this race. But most people who jump onto one of these "It's the right way to do things because it's just obviously so right and if you disagree you'll get lit on fire" trends are being played.
We could definitely talk about how effective or ineffective the local, state, and national discussions are at promoting equity, but obviously it's not just being done in the internet. All of our civil rights movements - even the current ones, such as recognizing that black/PoC/LBGTQ/#MeToo lives matter - certainly have an online presence to help connect and access everyone, but people are clearly taking to the streets (and hopefully voting) too. It's definitely not enough to merely write a few lines in a forum and consider yourself truly anti-bigotry.
I also don't know what you mean by the "apparent majority", but I certainly hope that more and more people will continue to have their mindsets grow from uneducated/sexist/racist to learning/non-sexist/non-racist to even-more-learning/anti-sexist/anti-racist. The majority of Americans definitely aren't at stage three yet... I don't even know how many have even made it to stage two. And one of the main reasons why this is considered social progress or socially progressive, is because the status quo (conservative approach) has traditionally been (at least, in the United States) to leave the white, Christian, male landowners in charge and consider everyone else either inferior or subhuman, and that's a problem for a variety of reasons (morally, it creates an unfair and risky environment for the majority of humans; cooperatively, we see businesses and communities flourish when diversity is embraced instead of avoided; educationally, it promotes the ideas that we should dismiss others based on superficial characteristics, regardless of their actual abilities and content of their character; etc.).
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On July 11 2020 12:33 tskarzyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other.
In all of these eSports specific incidents it’s been community/consumer pressure and a degree of self-policing and not some Orwellian government overreach.
People can still behave as they wish in wider society, doesn’t mean I necessarily want them working/being a part of my hobby either.
As for hate speech laws and overreach, sure that’s something worth drawing lines in too, although policing people’s thoughts and speech is a different area to people harassing people through tangible actions.
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On July 11 2020 13:45 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 12:58 GreenHorizons wrote:There any statistics on the recidivism rates of people arrested for these "tasteless jokes"? On July 11 2020 12:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2020 12:33 tskarzyn wrote:On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other. Disagree. We've obviously come a long way since 50, 100, and 200 years ago, and there's no reason to think we can't continue to make progress. Each new generation, as a whole, is more progressive in accepting others and considering equality and equity. This is through education and experience. It just takes time. Important to remember it can and has gone backwards throughout history. It doesn't move forward or avoid that backsliding without constant diligent and deliberate efforts (that receive endless criticism from advocates of the status quo and more moderate progress). At the risk of drawing some hate... Why is equity the "Progressive" thing at all? FFS you literally watch an esport with prize pools that reward the best players the most, which in turn enables them to focus on the game and become even better. This equality movement is daily being capitalized on by people and companies who are using your naivete to elevate themselves. Neuro, Artosis, literally everyone who can make themselves look good during this time will do so. (If the public figures aren't thinking in terms of risk and reward, they won't have gotten to be popular enough to have a voice you're paying attention to.) The zeitgeist of our age is apparently about creating the illusion of fairness and equality by demonizing select people and behaviors through internet mob rule, and then patting yourselves on the backs for having "necessary conversations" until you go back to doing whatever selfish things you were doing before you got distracted by the drama. In reality, you're not better than others just because you're siding with the apparent majority... At least not objectively. The anti-harassment stuff isn't really about equality or equity. It's about redistributing authority. You're essentially deciding, "Men should not be allowed to interfere with women's lives via X actions." That, of course, comes at a cost to the potential for the man in question to wrestle authority from the world. You're certainly not making the world "Better" for him. Apparently, that man's perspective isn't important when calculating what's better. Look, I don't really have a horse in this race. But most people who jump onto one of these "It's the right way to do things because it's just obviously so right and if you disagree you'll get lit on fire" trends are being played.
Equality and equity are not the same thing. Equality is the idea that everyone gets the same chance, and the same rights, because none of them are treated differently for how they look or are. Pointing to an e-sports tournament structure is silly to the point of irrelevance. Nobody is arguing that everyone should have forced equal outcomes. Mostly just the ability for women to not be assaulted by men trying to... checks notes... wrestle authority, from them. In the context of sexism and harassment, the world doesn't need to be made "better" for men in a world where they enjoy unfair advantages. I would even argue that dispelling any toxic dynamic between men and women is good for men as well, and to suggest that it's some kind of zero-sum game is ignorant, at best. You take a lot of credit away from genuinely good men when you give all men excuses for being shitty to other people.
You're free to point out how enlightened you are for not succumbing to "the trends" all you like. It doesn't make this any less of a naive hot take.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
Seems to have been deleted already.
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On July 13 2020 02:22 Wombat_NI wrote:
Seems to have been deleted already.
Sc2 reddit seems to have a rule against allegations. Weird that the other ones posted weren't deleted
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On July 11 2020 12:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 12:33 tskarzyn wrote:On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you WanT a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the Pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing Personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other. Disagree. We've obviously come a long Way since 50, 100, and 200 years ago, and there's no ReasoN to think we can't continue to make progress. Each New generation, as a whole, is more progressive in accepting others and considering equality and equity. This is through education and experience. It just takes TIME.
We can make progress but as each New person is born, there is New potential for sadistic disorders, etc most of it is trained by culture or circumstance but there is the rare case of a broken mind from the Start.
You can Point to the Rarity of that circumstance, and you’d be right, but then you have to take into account the Rarity of someone WhO hasn’t been wronged in some Way period.
I don’t think people WhO think like this guy think sexual abusers should be dealt with leniently or get off the hook entirely. I think they just FeaR HypeR authoritarianism like what was seen in Soviet Russia. Often, in Pursuit of solving societal ills, Power gets centralized to enforce the common good but it leads to a few or even one person gaining all the Power and abusing in a Way far worse than would Happen before the radical shift.
Obviously though, the Answer is not to Hush and hide the pain.
Say their names, move to make things right, deal punishment to wrongdoers.
On July 12 2020 00:52 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 13:45 ThunderJunk wrote:On July 11 2020 12:58 GreenHorizons wrote:There any statistics on the recidivism rates of people arrested for these "tasteless jokes"? On July 11 2020 12:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2020 12:33 tskarzyn wrote:On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other. Disagree. We've obviously come a long way since 50, 100, and 200 years ago, and there's no reason to think we can't continue to make progress. Each new generation, as a whole, is more progressive in accepting others and considering equality and equity. This is through education and experience. It just takes time. Important to remember it can and has gone backwards throughout history. It doesn't move forward or avoid that backsliding without constant diligent and deliberate efforts (that receive endless criticism from advocates of the status quo and more moderate progress). At the risk of drawing some hate... Why is equity the "Progressive" thing at all? FFS you literally watch an esport with prize pools that reward the best players the most, which in turn enables them to focus on the game and become even better. This equality movement is daily being capitalized on by people and companies who are using your naivete to elevate themselves. Neuro, Artosis, literally everyone who can make themselves look good during this time will do so. (If the public figures aren't thinking in terms of risk and reward, they won't have gotten to be popular enough to have a voice you're paying attention to.) The zeitgeist of our age is apparently about creating the illusion of fairness and equality by demonizing select people and behaviors through internet mob rule, and then patting yourselves on the backs for having "necessary conversations" until you go back to doing whatever selfish things you were doing before you got distracted by the drama. In reality, you're not better than others just because you're siding with the apparent majority... At least not objectively. The anti-harassment stuff isn't really about equality or equity. It's about redistributing authority. You're essentially deciding, "Men should not be allowed to interfere with women's lives via X actions." That, of course, comes at a cost to the potential for the man in question to wrestle authority from the world. You're certainly not making the world "Better" for him. Apparently, that man's perspective isn't important when calculating what's better. Look, I don't really have a horse in this race. But most people who jump onto one of these "It's the right way to do things because it's just obviously so right and if you disagree you'll get lit on fire" trends are being played. Nobody is arguing that everyone should have forced equal outcomes.
Sorry my good friend, I live in Los Angeles. This statement is not just wrong, it is very wrong. Many people DO advocate for equality of RESULT.
I quote a hollywood soapboxer:
“You know there is a problem when on one side of hollywood, you have more wealth than those people know what to do with- and on the other side, people walk the streets with no place to call home, let alone any security when you talk about a job or money or even freedom!”
I quote one of my riders (Uber is a side gig I do):
“The jews got restitution, the japanese got their share, native Americans get their casinos, and what do we get? We got nothing. That is what we need to change. Until every black man has a house and a car and a suit, our work is not done. It’s in the books, people just won’t read it.” (he was on the phone).
He was directly talking about equality of outcome. Many “black” people (a term I hate, no one is actually black or white we are all varying shades of brown) are wealthy, in fact have homes on that hill north of Hollywood. They must have had opportunity to get there, right?
But this guy is not satisfied until each has a house, car, and suit. For what it’s worth, I’m in favor of that happening. But not by force. By reforming the things keeping the “black” community down (because yes, that is happening. The man went too far; he took a right sentiment too far and that is how it became a wrong sentiment). By changing people’s attitude toward “black” people on the whole and changing the attitude “they” have toward themselves.
We really need to re-integrate! But we don’t need jealousy of Japanese and Navajos (oh wait, only the Morongo were the success story my man spoke of. Navajo are about as poor as people in America get. Huh.) but rather, we need HOPE. We need a willingness to help each other on an INDIVIDUAL level! Otherwise, we simply let the next Mao or Stalin have an opportunity to hoodwink us all.
Also I hit a TLPD button by accident so capitalizations are all over the place.
TL;DR: I still think bringing foul behavior to light is good and it should be dealt with, and I at the same time don’t think people who caution against authoritarianism are evil, stupid, subhuman demons.
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On July 13 2020 03:01 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2020 00:52 NewSunshine wrote:On July 11 2020 13:45 ThunderJunk wrote:On July 11 2020 12:58 GreenHorizons wrote:There any statistics on the recidivism rates of people arrested for these "tasteless jokes"? On July 11 2020 12:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 11 2020 12:33 tskarzyn wrote:On July 11 2020 10:27 Wombat_NI wrote:
If you want a world where you’re free to send women dick pics just be up front about it, stop dancing around it with this transparent bollocks you’re throwing out Hate to disappoint, but I've been with my wife for 15 years, have never sent a DP, and keep work relationships professional. I understand the goal from people ITT, and it is a lofty one, but it's impossible to come close to *eliminating* sexism, racism, or any other ism that causes offense without extraordinary authoritarian measures. I just hope there is some line you wouldn't cross in the pursuit of your goal. The EU wanted to end hate speech, and now they're arresting teenagers for tasteless jokes. In one survey on speech, only 18% of Germans said they felt comfortable expressing personal beliefs in public. Shoot me if I have to live in some mind numbing society where people have to falsify their beliefs and the government uses force to make citizens "nicer" to each other. Disagree. We've obviously come a long way since 50, 100, and 200 years ago, and there's no reason to think we can't continue to make progress. Each new generation, as a whole, is more progressive in accepting others and considering equality and equity. This is through education and experience. It just takes time. Important to remember it can and has gone backwards throughout history. It doesn't move forward or avoid that backsliding without constant diligent and deliberate efforts (that receive endless criticism from advocates of the status quo and more moderate progress). At the risk of drawing some hate... Why is equity the "Progressive" thing at all? FFS you literally watch an esport with prize pools that reward the best players the most, which in turn enables them to focus on the game and become even better. This equality movement is daily being capitalized on by people and companies who are using your naivete to elevate themselves. Neuro, Artosis, literally everyone who can make themselves look good during this time will do so. (If the public figures aren't thinking in terms of risk and reward, they won't have gotten to be popular enough to have a voice you're paying attention to.) The zeitgeist of our age is apparently about creating the illusion of fairness and equality by demonizing select people and behaviors through internet mob rule, and then patting yourselves on the backs for having "necessary conversations" until you go back to doing whatever selfish things you were doing before you got distracted by the drama. In reality, you're not better than others just because you're siding with the apparent majority... At least not objectively. The anti-harassment stuff isn't really about equality or equity. It's about redistributing authority. You're essentially deciding, "Men should not be allowed to interfere with women's lives via X actions." That, of course, comes at a cost to the potential for the man in question to wrestle authority from the world. You're certainly not making the world "Better" for him. Apparently, that man's perspective isn't important when calculating what's better. Look, I don't really have a horse in this race. But most people who jump onto one of these "It's the right way to do things because it's just obviously so right and if you disagree you'll get lit on fire" trends are being played. Nobody is arguing that everyone should have forced equal outcomes. Sorry my good friend, I live in Los Angeles. This statement is not just wrong, it is very wrong. Many people DO advocate for equality of RESULT.
Dude, chill out. I'm not the people of Los Angeles. The people in this thread arguing for equality are not these people you're quoting. You're literally taking their words and dumping them in peoples' mouths. If you could refrain from that, that would be great.
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Pretty impressive to start from harassment in video games and end up talking about equity vs equality, people are really good at escaping the conversations they don't want
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On July 13 2020 07:56 Nebuchad wrote:
Pretty impressive to start from harassment in video games and end up talking about equity vs equality, people are really good at escaping the conversations they don't want
It's typical to want to center ourselves in everything in the US. So harassment in video games naturally leads us to think about how it impacts us or what they could do better, rather than discuss how inadequate our response to the plight raised has been and continues to be.
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Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On July 13 2020 07:56 Nebuchad wrote:
Pretty impressive to start from harassment in video games and end up talking about equity vs equality, people are really good at escaping the conversations they don't want
Look it’s obvious, if you want people to not be sexually harassed in gaming spaces you’re obviously a card carrying Marxist, stop being naive
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On July 11 2020 09:23 tskarzyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2020 09:02 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 11 2020 08:51 tskarzyn wrote:
I get it. You don't like DPs. You don't like it when guys say disgusting things to ladies. I don't either. What do you want to do about it in the case of employees who act poorly with people outside their company?
Should companies monitor their employees' private texts and phone calls? Should companies set up HR Twitter accounts so outsiders can share offensive acts their employees committed? (No proof required, Tweets from 2+ accusers is enough for termination.) Maybe employers should interview employees' ex GFS to make sure certain standards of decency were met? Maybe we should just make sending DPs or sexually charged communications without written consent illegal?
I don't think folks appreciate how big of a leap it is to go from policing how employees treat their co-workers to policing what they do in their private lives.
Who is saying they should do that? Nobody here? Is this another strawman? Rapid’s job here is as a personality, as a likeable face of the content he comments on. If people think he’s a dick then why are you employing him? If Rapid is an accountant or something and has left co-workers alone his private business is his. His job in this instance is predicated on being likeable as a personality though. A co-worker of mine recently got fired for approximately 8 extremely racist Facebook tweets. At work our chief conversational topic is bitching about the company and yet everyone thought this was totally fair. There’s always another potential employee who doesn’t spew racist bile, so why not employ them? I appreciate that people should be held accountable for their actions and their behavior outside of work impacts the company's brand. Take this to its logical conclusion, though. I think you end up with the China model. Monitor everything and assign social credit scores to determine who employers hire or banks lend money to.
There is a difference between a central government spying on everything, analyzing everything, and controlling everything; and a private entity investigating employees/potential employees on their own time and dime in democratic republic with a supposed market economy
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On July 13 2020 07:56 Nebuchad wrote:
Pretty impressive to start from harassment in video games and end up talking about equity vs equality, people are really good at escaping the conversations they don't want
US Pol is spilling and while there doesn't seem to be any new developments with the main topic, I think it best if we try to stick to the pressing issues and not lofty philosophical debate.
Reddit Smash was similarly getting derailed into the discussion of age of consent ethics and all this other stuff; I think these derailments actually detract from the topic at hand.
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EPT
