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On May 28 2020 00:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
It's possible that they're adding all TLMC finalists to ladder now that there's only one TLMC per year, but that kinda defeats the purpose of the map contest tournament.
I think that's what it actually is going to be in the end though. Holding back on the better performing maps until later in the year.
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On May 27 2020 23:30 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2020 22:10 Nebuchad wrote:On May 27 2020 22:08 algue wrote:On May 27 2020 22:05 Nebuchad wrote:
It was important to change the map pool quite radically, it was terran favoured and with the patch on top of that the season would have been atrocious. Keeping the weird maps rather than the standard ones is a good sign that they understood they had to change this. But the most terran favoured map of all, Purity and Industry remains in the map pool. There were so few games on it I didn't realize it was terran favoured lol. I guess that is an issue. I think it's ok. P&I will just be an extremely common veto outside of non-mirror Bo7 (it already is) like many other "weird" maps before it. That said it's kind of surprising they keep the one map Afreeca decided was so bad they should replace it for Code S.
Due to the way the Main base's cliff is shaped reaper openings are broken on this map. It's a nightmare to play against a terran who has decided to abuse the map's main/natural layout.
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On May 28 2020 01:18 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2020 23:30 Elentos wrote:On May 27 2020 22:10 Nebuchad wrote:On May 27 2020 22:08 algue wrote:On May 27 2020 22:05 Nebuchad wrote:
It was important to change the map pool quite radically, it was terran favoured and with the patch on top of that the season would have been atrocious. Keeping the weird maps rather than the standard ones is a good sign that they understood they had to change this. But the most terran favoured map of all, Purity and Industry remains in the map pool. There were so few games on it I didn't realize it was terran favoured lol. I guess that is an issue. I think it's ok. P&I will just be an extremely common veto outside of non-mirror Bo7 (it already is) like many other "weird" maps before it. That said it's kind of surprising they keep the one map Afreeca decided was so bad they should replace it for Code S. Due to the way the Main base's cliff is shaped reaper openings are broken on this map. It's a nightmare to play against a terran who has decided to abuse the map's main/natural layout.
It's all about the airspace that's broken. I'm not convinced reaper openings are a problem on it.
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On May 28 2020 01:00 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2020 20:25 algue wrote:
Honestly not a fan of the slow/speed zone mechanic, I hope this trend will disappear soon enough or that at least the next TLMCs wont dedicate them a category to prop them up agreed, dumb gimmick. i'm not against the idea, but i don't think it's being used in an interesting way. "here's a random choke point with a speed zone" isn't going to cause any new strategies or dramatic moments in games, it's just a random feature in the future when they've been around longer maybe mapmakers will have a better idea of how to use them, or maybe they'll just go away
I haven't been able to think of many interesting use cases for them when I've tried to design them into a map. The most interesting idea was putting a fast or slow field over a mineral field, to affect worker return speeds, but mostly any feature that's interesting with an inhibitor or accelerator would be just as good without it. And less complicated.
Global unit speed modification is a very weird axis to play with.
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Great that they kept my favorite maps in the current map pool - Purity and Industry and Golden Wall.
Also good that they removed two of my veto maps (Simulacrum and Zen LE).
Not sure about the new maps but hopefully at least two of them are playable.
The new map pool plus the patch changes will make the game more fun, at least if 4-gate blink does not start to dominate again.
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On May 28 2020 02:28 MockHamill wrote:
Great that they kept my favorite maps in the current map pool - Purity and Industry and Golden Wall.
Also good that they removed two of my veto maps (Simulacrum and Zen LE).
Not sure about the new maps but hopefully at least two of them are playable.
The new map pool plus the patch changes will make the game more fun, at least if 4-gate blink does not start to dominate again.
Yeah same, I’m especially happy that Golden Wall stays in the pool cause I have really enjoyed playing that map
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I legitimately hate having a million turtle maps in the pool, so I'm glad golden and purity are still here.
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As I have vetoed GW and P&I, I really hope those maps are good. They look kind of standard, which I like. I'm a boring person.
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It's interesting that there's just a split between people who hate Golden Wall and Purity and people who love both, while very few people say one is good and one is bad. I think variance in maps can be good, and golden wall is a great example, but can also just be imbalanced like purity is. It's fine that we tried both out, but Purity really needs to go and golden wall definitely deserves to stay
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On May 28 2020 06:39 NunedQ wrote:
It's interesting that there's just a split between people who hate Golden Wall and Purity and people who love both, while very few people say one is good and one is bad. I think variance in maps can be good, and golden wall is a great example, but can also just be imbalanced like purity is. It's fine that we tried both out, but Purity really needs to go and golden wall definitely deserves to stay
Yeah agreed. Removing a map for being imbalanced like Purity and Industry is a much more valid reason than just a knee-jerk reaction to non-standard layouts like Zen or Golden Wall.
I really wish tournament organizers would get involved though, and didn't just stick to whatever Blizz put on ladder. Tournament have so much more ability to cycle maps in and out quickly depending on balance.
edit: Oh Blizzard listened:
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United States33493 Posts
Purity and Industry was fun to watch for like 2 weeks before everyone hated it. I wonder if there's an ecosystem where fans enjoy the honeymoon phase of weird maps for a little bit without stressing the pros too much.
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On May 28 2020 08:38 Waxangel wrote:
Purity and Industry was fun to watch for like 2 weeks before everyone hated it. I wonder if there's an ecosystem where fans enjoy the honeymoon phase of weird maps for a little bit without stressing the pros too much.
Stressing out the pros with weird maps like Zen or Golden Wall is a-okay. In fact I wish we did that a lot more, and pros had a lot less say in TLMC. Imbalance like in the case of P&I is a different issue.
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Very happy with the news Eternal Empire will be staying in the pool rather than Purity and Industry. That's one less veto for me this season. Eternal Empire may be slightly old, but it provides tons of good games.
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Northern Ireland26131 Posts
Seen worse pools. I still just want bigger pools with more vetoes so variety can be accommodated and people don’t burn out on good maps that end up having to be swapped out
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Unfortunately, Purity and Industry had to go, balance issues in a map ruin the fun even if it was innovative design and visually popped with the dark/light contrast.
I am glad to see Eternal Empire remains, at the pro level it is the map that gives the best games and for me it still plays differently than any other map in the last few seasons.
I'm not sure Deathura will be a good map for Zerg in TvZ, lots of good reaper spots, fewer overlord pillars, dead space around the main/tri 3rd, fewer attack paths, and some nice places for siege tank placement.
Ice and Chrome, on the other hand, has a tighter main with less reaper area, many overlord pillars in good locations, more defensible area vs liberators, more attack paths, and lacks the two-ramps one-tank setup. Those two maps seem pretty similar, but I bet they play out differently in that matchup.
Pillars of Gold looks great and the huge mains tend to allow more creative drop/nydus/hidden pylon play that is fun for fans to watch. With the protected linear 3rd, overall size of that map, and mid-map ramp layout will tend to push longer macro games, there are no really tight chokes like Zen or Cyber Forest that would hugely slow down a main-to-nat push. This could be a very solid map, reminds me of Kairos Junction but without the abusive siege locations on the linear 3rd.
Submarine is full of fun features that aren't slow/fast zones, like a little reaper pad for the 3rd-to-main that offers some different access than usual. There are lots of tiny chokes in important pathways with small destructible rocks, so I expect clearing of obstacles/denial of such to be a focal point of some battles. There is nearly continuous high ground from natural to natural; on some maps we have almost the entirety of the middle of the map as low ground (Simulacrum, Zen, Purity). Here the low ground is actually the 3rd bases and the linear 4th, so attacking into 3rd bases is going to be much different than other maps where it is usually up a ramp. Add in the small size and this is a brawl map, some (fun!) nasty, brutish and short matches are going to result. Probably will have some fun special builds as well since the shape is so unique.
I'm pretty excited about the maps in this pool overall, amazing to me to think how map makers from TL.net community end up providing the backdrop for professional esports.
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thank god. i hate purity and industry. too bad they didn't remove golden wall.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On May 28 2020 08:38 Waxangel wrote:
Purity and Industry was fun to watch for like 2 weeks before everyone hated it. I wonder if there's an ecosystem where fans enjoy the honeymoon phase of weird maps for a little bit without stressing the pros too much.
I like purity and industry as a random(with all them races), I dislike golden wall. I don't think I vetoed it, but it's close it.
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I'd like to make a 21 baneling salute for Purity and Industry, fallen in combat by the hands of imbalance.
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>map named Pillars of Gold
>no gold bases
??
also the new additions seems like pretty straightforward normal maps, I like them. And they all look really good aswell which I like to see aswell.
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On May 28 2020 23:22 Andi_Goldberger wrote:
>map named Pillars of Gold
>no gold bases
??
also the new additions seems like pretty straightforward normal maps, I like them. And they all look really good aswell which I like to see aswell.
Even though I'm not opposed to "experimental" maps, history shows that those maps fizzle out really fast. Golden Wall actually is one of the best funky maps of the last years. Lots of interesting games there.
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EPT
