On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Yes absolutely the game was really nice in 2018. They made it worse and worse afterwards.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
Well he didn;t ask for micro nerf, just for the nerfs. These are the things are remember, there will be probably more but considering other races gets nerfs after a while(BL/infestor, SH, blink, BL/Infestor again to name few notable "let's wait and see" approaches) it's sometimes hard to blame a certain player as others have more time to adjust and copy it.
Edit> To the ByuN - I still remember his last Code S where he was constantly praised for his micro while he was dying to his mmm being showered by storms and he was standing in them. That was one of the examples of bad hype casting IMO.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
Byun was always the fastest player with ultra quick hands and pacey play-style, but that does not mean he had the best micro. He was certainly not best at splitting and positioning his units, which also falls under the micro category.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about....
I watched IEM, Marus splits didnt look as good as Times at Asus, yet he didnt even make the cut here....
Is Byun the last Terran champion? Besides the other micro god Maru at Wesg over Serral? Can you even COUNT the foreign Terrans at this point? I love Special, but hes never wowed me with micro like Byun, or herO, or Parting, ...
So who had the best micro, for Terran, if NOT Byun? Especially when the next 2 up, Maru and TY were plainly envious? ( Even if overall better players)
On March 02 2020 23:18 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about....
I watched IEM, Marus splits didnt look as good as Times at Asus, yet he didnt even make the cut here....
Is Byun the last Terran champion? Besides the other micro god Maru at Wesg over Serral? Can you even COUNT the foreign Terrans at this point? I love Special, but hes never wowed me with micro like Byun, or herO, or Parting, ...
So who had the best micro, for Terran, if NOT Byun? Especially when the next 2 up, Maru and TY were plainly envious? ( Even if overall better players)
Maru has better micro and it's not close. Byun being slightly better at microing one specific unit doesn't change that
So you are saying, you don't know how to google and need help? O_O
On March 02 2020 23:18 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about....
I watched IEM, Marus splits didnt look as good as Times at Asus, yet he didnt even make the cut here....
Is Byun the last Terran champion? Besides the other micro god Maru at Wesg over Serral? Can you even COUNT the foreign Terrans at this point? I love Special, but hes never wowed me with micro like Byun, or herO, or Parting, ...
So who had the best micro, for Terran, if NOT Byun? Especially when the next 2 up, Maru and TY were plainly envious? ( Even if overall better players)
Maru has the best micro in the World, he has had the best micro for years and it is not even close.
I have seen Maru do things with complex armies in a second while I still don't even have the time to register everything he was doing. Siege tank siege, bio stim, ghost emp (on protoss army) and liberator siege in a mere second. Maru is the micro god but it gets especially obvious when you see him controlling complex armies.
I also question if you have seen many of Specials games because at times he also micros really really well. At this Point I'm starting to wonder if you just have trouble understanding what the players are doing. ByuN while being great lacked Marus precise micro when it was more than one unit and his macro behind it was always a bit lacking compared to Maru and Inno. I love ByuN but he was never a Maru.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
I am dead serious... WHO the fuck is Morrow?
Swedish terran, he was particularly good in 2010-2011 and he was playing mass reaper a lot.
Although I'd say in the early day of SC2 players focused more on micro than macro, so it was easier to notice it, as things get more and more figured out player focus less on micro. Overall outside of all in, early game stuff or low economy scenario you want to have to micro the least amount of possible.
It's especially true in lotv with the super fast economy, outside of the early game, you don't really have time to do to much fancy micro and it become more about army positionning, spell casting and focus firing. Blink stalkers are a good exemple, I don't think anyone has forgot to do 2 minute fight where you save every stalker with blink, but pretty much no one does right now because in a standard game if you take the time to do it mean you are already dead since the other guy macro will be good enough to overpower you. It's the same with helions micro against speed ling or the MKP marine split back in the day where he would micro every marine individually but never macro for shit.
Maru and TY can control complex armies very well while Inno and ByuN can micro one group of specific units very well. The thing that makes difference is that both Inno and Maru have godlike macro on their back while TY and ByuN do not.
On March 02 2020 06:27 GoldenPaladin14 wrote: The more and more that I hear from Rogue, the more I like him. Knock his playstyle all you want but he's a professional, and is going to play to win before he plays to entertain, and the best part about that is he doesn't hide from that. Hell, he even apologized to fans for it. That shows some incredible self awareness, and he comes across as incredibly thoughtful.
I agree with his assessment as well, that the game needs to be more oriented around equal standard play, instead of a game of build orders. I think that's the reason Serral has been so good the past couple of years. I'd argue he isn't the best player in the world, but is the best at scouting/map awareness and has almost unparalleled knowledge of the game. When he knows what you're doing, he's unstoppable, but when he doesn't he looks very, very shaky. I don't think he "feels" the game as well as others do. More volatile players have success against him (Hurricane, Reynor, Zest this tourney). Serral can see exactly what you're doing, react, and use Zerg's strengths such as scouting and reactionary mechanics (whatever you think about balance), and counter/overwhelm the build.
I hope when ByuN comes back (God-willing his micro is still top1), he will be able to abuse all-in mechanics to the point it gets the entire game looked at balance-wise. I think LotV was most enjoyable to watch in 2018 when Maru beat Dark at WESG. Lots of late game, but balanced maps with varied builds and styles.
Inno, stats, and soo all eliminated serral from premier tournaments last year and they aren’t volatile players at all. You know what to expect from them.
Byuns micro was never top 1 either lol.
Bun micro NOT TOPS? UTTER NONSENSE!!!
Name another pro who SINGLEHANDED, got a unit nerfed...
Why was Maru so envious of Byuns reaper control? I'm watching Katowice and they casually throw it out there that TY, WISHES he had Byuns mechanics...
To date, I've yet to see another Terran so effortlessly snipe banelings, in fact, I'm pretty sure HIS bane sniping got them A HEALTH BUFF!!!
What the FUCK you talking about??
So why was Byun so many times praised for his micro not able to micro MMM properly?
Anyway - Morrow(Reapers), Maru(Ravens), Innovation(Hellbats) to name the few I remember.
Mvp and ghosts too
Although all these other examples were more strategically exploiting things more than just being amazing at microing a unit
I am dead serious... WHO the fuck is Morrow?
Swedish terran, he was particularly good in 2010-2011 and he was playing mass reaper a lot.
Although I'd say in the early day of SC2 players focused more on micro than macro, so it was easier to notice it, as things get more and more figured out player focus less on micro. Overall outside of all in, early game stuff or low economy scenario you want to have to micro the least amount of possible.
It's especially true in lotv with the super fast economy, outside of the early game, you don't really have time to do to much fancy micro and it become more about army positionning, spell casting and focus firing. Blink stalkers are a good exemple, I don't think anyone has forgot to do 2 minute fight where you save every stalker with blink, but pretty much no one does right now because in a standard game if you take the time to do it mean you are already dead since the other guy macro will be good enough to overpower you. It's the same with helions micro against speed ling or the MKP marine split back in the day where he would micro every marine individually but never macro for shit.
Also everyone has basically automated all sorts of tricks that had to be figured out and ingrained.
Zerg players have all gotten so good at defending the initial reaper that losing a ling or even god forbid a drone is something you basically never see anymore
I do miss the real elongated blink battles, or blink v blink in PvP but it’s just less common today by far than it used to be. As you say though you really can’t do anything else while you’re doing it, Terrans can fit in at least partial macro cycles between micro actions, you can’t really do that in a pure blink stalker battle
Rogue is such a gentleman on his personality and after every interview I gain more respect to him. As a pro he is not my favorite player and zerg, but this is how should be done in real life - be a monster while you do your job and be a gentleman out of the games with the people. GG
On March 02 2020 23:18 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: I don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about....
I watched IEM, Marus splits didnt look as good as Times at Asus, yet he didnt even make the cut here....
Is Byun the last Terran champion? Besides the other micro god Maru at Wesg over Serral? Can you even COUNT the foreign Terrans at this point? I love Special, but hes never wowed me with micro like Byun, or herO, or Parting, ...
So who had the best micro, for Terran, if NOT Byun? Especially when the next 2 up, Maru and TY were plainly envious? ( Even if overall better players)
Maru has the best micro in the World, he has had the best micro for years and it is not even close.
I have seen Maru do things with complex armies in a second while I still don't even have the time to register everything he was doing. Siege tank siege, bio stim, ghost emp (on protoss army) and liberator siege in a mere second. Maru is the micro god but it gets especially obvious when you see him controlling complex armies.
I also question if you have seen many of Specials games because at times he also micros really really well. At this Point I'm starting to wonder if you just have trouble understanding what the players are doing. ByuN while being great lacked Marus precise micro when it was more than one unit and his macro behind it was always a bit lacking compared to Maru and Inno. I love ByuN but he was never a Maru.
First off, naming Morrow is like naming Idra as a top Zerg, 2010 play doesn't really cut it in 2020. Jesus, are you talking about the 5 rax reapers, like the reapers that had the grenades bonus on buildings? Come on man...
Special? For micro? Hes not even Uthermal, like ....what? He has great builds and macro, always has since he was sixjax Major and number 1 GM NA. But a micro god, no....
And come on, we all watch the SAME games. Until Maru beat Serral in those late game raven fest, TY was considered to have the best Terran late game and army control, Ghumiho the best builds, Maru was the most decisive, great micro combined with great tempo play, when Banshees were still viable.... Inno was the Macro beast..... Maru was like 9s in all categories, Byun was definitely a 10 on micro...
Byun was the first player I saw that actually made banelings look like they wernt even a viable unit prelair....
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