• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:43
CEST 07:43
KST 14:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation12$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced6Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #4: Winners Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [G] Progamer Settings ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Positive Thoughts on Setting Up a Dual-Caliber FX
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 523 users

TLnet Map Contest 14 Finalists - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
50 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Aerocool
Profile Joined July 2019
2 Posts
February 11 2020 05:00 GMT
#21
Bamboozle's start location in the bottom left is buggy. The nexus has an offset from the desired location.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
February 11 2020 05:23 GMT
#22
At second glance it does feel like some weaker maps slipped through because of judges valuing maps with features that favor their race (airspace next to the main for example) over better designed maps, but at least none of them are too egregious.
Kantuva
Profile Joined April 2010
Uruguay206 Posts
February 11 2020 05:53 GMT
#23
Bamboozle's start location in the bottom left is buggy. The nexus has an offset from the desired location.

Thanks for the report, it has been corrected
@Kantuva | Mapmaker | TLMC Volunteer Admin | Join us on: https://mapcave.net/discord
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
February 11 2020 06:20 GMT
#24
At a first look Beckett Industries looks pretty good.

The standard/macro maps all look the same as each other and as most of the maps from the last few seasons. I dunno why you guys are obsessed with giving away 5 bases for free, with 7+ bases per player, only 2-players, and worst of all, an even number of paths.

I'm not a fan of Blackburn, but the other rush maps seem ok; though if any make it into the ladder pool I have no idea how good their gameplay will actually turn out.

On February 11 2020 07:25 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2020 05:18 Howard_Kao wrote:
Why does all maps look familiar and dull, I thought we're gonna have some crazy maps under the topic of adrenaline rush

Anything not familiar and dull gets vetoed to death. Just look at Zen, only the natural is unusual and the map is barely played.

You know I'm not terrified of "interesting" features; I loved Turbo Cruise and I liked Winter's Gate for example, but Zen is extremely uncomfortable to play on. The 2nd nat entrance is occasionally annoying, but normally you just block it off and rally to your 3rd and it's almost like the nat is normal. What makes the map hell to play on is the tiny misshapen main bases, especially in conjunction with the cliff face that turns into an expo, annoying pathing due to a thousand different mineral blocks, and how tight the map is as a whole. I think the tightness would be ok without the mineral blocks, and the layout as a whole would be more easily taken in without the cramped main, nat, and 3rd. All together these traits make for a typically unpleasant game, not the "innovative" feature of the 2nd nat entrance.

I want to like the map, it definitely stands out among the mappool of the last few seasons, but after playing a ton of games on the map I found I enjoyed sc2 much more after vetoing it.

However, I promise you can have traits that differentiate a map from its peers without hurting the gameplay.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
mythikdawn
Profile Joined July 2019
United States25 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-11 09:25:35
February 11 2020 09:24 GMT
#25
I like a lot of these maps. My favorite is definitely Blackburn, I love the idea of both players spawning on one side of the map, and wish we had more maps like that! Something like a Redshift 2.0 would be cool too.

Ultimately though I would LOVE to see four player maps come back into popularity, especially if a map pool had a decent mix of small maps, medium maps, and a single four-player random spawn map.
fullheart2
Profile Joined April 2019
3 Posts
February 11 2020 09:26 GMT
#26
The triangle third base on 2000 atmospheres has 9 mineral patches instead of 8 on both sides. Could be intentional, but two of them are on top of eachother, so it is probably a bug.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6900 Posts
February 11 2020 10:58 GMT
#27
Map Contest Tournament starts in a few hours. Will be interesting to see what players instantly veto out. I guess the more extraordinary maps will get most vetos, cause players are unfamiliar with it :/
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
February 11 2020 15:49 GMT
#28
i don't understand the point of putting accelerators in choke points. choke points are hard to move through, but you made them easier to move through, so it's just a less chokey choke point? pretty uninspired.
TL+ Member
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-11 17:05:37
February 11 2020 15:56 GMT
#29
On February 11 2020 15:20 Nightmarjoo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
At a first look Beckett Industries looks pretty good.

The standard/macro maps all look the same as each other and as most of the maps from the last few seasons. I dunno why you guys are obsessed with giving away 5 bases for free, with 7+ bases per player, only 2-players, and worst of all, an even number of paths.

I'm not a fan of Blackburn, but the other rush maps seem ok; though if any make it into the ladder pool I have no idea how good their gameplay will actually turn out.

On February 11 2020 07:25 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2020 05:18 Howard_Kao wrote:
Why does all maps look familiar and dull, I thought we're gonna have some crazy maps under the topic of adrenaline rush

Anything not familiar and dull gets vetoed to death. Just look at Zen, only the natural is unusual and the map is barely played.

You know I'm not terrified of "interesting" features; I loved Turbo Cruise and I liked Winter's Gate for example, but Zen is extremely uncomfortable to play on. The 2nd nat entrance is occasionally annoying, but normally you just block it off and rally to your 3rd and it's almost like the nat is normal. What makes the map hell to play on is the tiny misshapen main bases, especially in conjunction with the cliff face that turns into an expo, annoying pathing due to a thousand different mineral blocks, and how tight the map is as a whole. I think the tightness would be ok without the mineral blocks, and the layout as a whole would be more easily taken in without the cramped main, nat, and 3rd. All together these traits make for a typically unpleasant game, not the "innovative" feature of the 2nd nat entrance.

I want to like the map, it definitely stands out among the mappool of the last few seasons, but after playing a ton of games on the map I found I enjoyed sc2 much more after vetoing it.

However, I promise you can have traits that differentiate a map from its peers without hurting the gameplay.


Yeah i made too many mistakes on Zen

On February 12 2020 00:49 brickrd wrote:
i don't understand the point of putting accelerators in choke points. choke points are hard to move through, but you made them easier to move through, so it's just a less chokey choke point? pretty uninspired.



AZGs on chokes change the properties of the choke. It's more or less desirable depending on the stage of the game.

With a small army, it is only a boost because the army doesn't get spaghettified.

With a large army, the army gets spaghettified but still gets through the choke at a normal pace.

Setting a concave is very easy for battles with medium and large armies. But if the defender's army to too small, the attacker can still break through with a few less hits taken.

So depending on the time of the game, the size of the attacker and the defender's armies will vary and you won't use those chokes the same in the early, mid and late game.

________________

By the way, in this TLMC, there are 5 first time finalists.
- Agaton
- CharactR
- robeng
- Insidioussc2
- insidious_bombardier

This amount is crazy. The future of sc2 melee map making is safe.

Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
February 11 2020 21:22 GMT
#30
On February 12 2020 00:56 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2020 15:20 Nightmarjoo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
At a first look Beckett Industries looks pretty good.

The standard/macro maps all look the same as each other and as most of the maps from the last few seasons. I dunno why you guys are obsessed with giving away 5 bases for free, with 7+ bases per player, only 2-players, and worst of all, an even number of paths.

I'm not a fan of Blackburn, but the other rush maps seem ok; though if any make it into the ladder pool I have no idea how good their gameplay will actually turn out.

On February 11 2020 07:25 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2020 05:18 Howard_Kao wrote:
Why does all maps look familiar and dull, I thought we're gonna have some crazy maps under the topic of adrenaline rush

Anything not familiar and dull gets vetoed to death. Just look at Zen, only the natural is unusual and the map is barely played.

You know I'm not terrified of "interesting" features; I loved Turbo Cruise and I liked Winter's Gate for example, but Zen is extremely uncomfortable to play on. The 2nd nat entrance is occasionally annoying, but normally you just block it off and rally to your 3rd and it's almost like the nat is normal. What makes the map hell to play on is the tiny misshapen main bases, especially in conjunction with the cliff face that turns into an expo, annoying pathing due to a thousand different mineral blocks, and how tight the map is as a whole. I think the tightness would be ok without the mineral blocks, and the layout as a whole would be more easily taken in without the cramped main, nat, and 3rd. All together these traits make for a typically unpleasant game, not the "innovative" feature of the 2nd nat entrance.

I want to like the map, it definitely stands out among the mappool of the last few seasons, but after playing a ton of games on the map I found I enjoyed sc2 much more after vetoing it.

However, I promise you can have traits that differentiate a map from its peers without hurting the gameplay.


Yeah i made too many mistakes on Zen

Show nested quote +
On February 12 2020 00:49 brickrd wrote:
i don't understand the point of putting accelerators in choke points. choke points are hard to move through, but you made them easier to move through, so it's just a less chokey choke point? pretty uninspired.



AZGs on chokes change the properties of the choke. It's more or less desirable depending on the stage of the game.

With a small army, it is only a boost because the army doesn't get spaghettified.

With a large army, the army gets spaghettified but still gets through the choke at a normal pace.

Setting a concave is very easy for battles with medium and large armies. But if the defender's army to too small, the attacker can still break through with a few less hits taken.

So depending on the time of the game, the size of the attacker and the defender's armies will vary and you won't use those chokes the same in the early, mid and late game.

________________

By the way, in this TLMC, there are 5 first time finalists.
- Agaton
- CharactR
- robeng
- Insidioussc2
- insidious_bombardier

This amount is crazy. The future of sc2 melee map making is safe.


sounds like a bunch of theorycraft you made up
TL+ Member
ShingDingz
Profile Joined October 2017
15 Posts
February 11 2020 21:50 GMT
#31
Awesome set, thanks to all the mapmakers and tournament organizers! Love me some new maps
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25054 Posts
February 11 2020 23:17 GMT
#32
On February 12 2020 06:22 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2020 00:56 Superouman wrote:
On February 11 2020 15:20 Nightmarjoo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
At a first look Beckett Industries looks pretty good.

The standard/macro maps all look the same as each other and as most of the maps from the last few seasons. I dunno why you guys are obsessed with giving away 5 bases for free, with 7+ bases per player, only 2-players, and worst of all, an even number of paths.

I'm not a fan of Blackburn, but the other rush maps seem ok; though if any make it into the ladder pool I have no idea how good their gameplay will actually turn out.

On February 11 2020 07:25 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2020 05:18 Howard_Kao wrote:
Why does all maps look familiar and dull, I thought we're gonna have some crazy maps under the topic of adrenaline rush

Anything not familiar and dull gets vetoed to death. Just look at Zen, only the natural is unusual and the map is barely played.

You know I'm not terrified of "interesting" features; I loved Turbo Cruise and I liked Winter's Gate for example, but Zen is extremely uncomfortable to play on. The 2nd nat entrance is occasionally annoying, but normally you just block it off and rally to your 3rd and it's almost like the nat is normal. What makes the map hell to play on is the tiny misshapen main bases, especially in conjunction with the cliff face that turns into an expo, annoying pathing due to a thousand different mineral blocks, and how tight the map is as a whole. I think the tightness would be ok without the mineral blocks, and the layout as a whole would be more easily taken in without the cramped main, nat, and 3rd. All together these traits make for a typically unpleasant game, not the "innovative" feature of the 2nd nat entrance.

I want to like the map, it definitely stands out among the mappool of the last few seasons, but after playing a ton of games on the map I found I enjoyed sc2 much more after vetoing it.

However, I promise you can have traits that differentiate a map from its peers without hurting the gameplay.


Yeah i made too many mistakes on Zen

On February 12 2020 00:49 brickrd wrote:
i don't understand the point of putting accelerators in choke points. choke points are hard to move through, but you made them easier to move through, so it's just a less chokey choke point? pretty uninspired.



AZGs on chokes change the properties of the choke. It's more or less desirable depending on the stage of the game.

With a small army, it is only a boost because the army doesn't get spaghettified.

With a large army, the army gets spaghettified but still gets through the choke at a normal pace.

Setting a concave is very easy for battles with medium and large armies. But if the defender's army to too small, the attacker can still break through with a few less hits taken.

So depending on the time of the game, the size of the attacker and the defender's armies will vary and you won't use those chokes the same in the early, mid and late game.

________________

By the way, in this TLMC, there are 5 first time finalists.
- Agaton
- CharactR
- robeng
- Insidioussc2
- insidious_bombardier

This amount is crazy. The future of sc2 melee map making is safe.


sounds like a bunch of theorycraft you made up

But that’s the beauty of theorycraft!

Personally I think there could be more interesting uses of something like accelerating/slowing fields, namely make a variant that is directional.

Maybe while entering from one side it accelerates you through, decelerates if entering from the other side. Then you could have relatively long chunks of movement modifying fields.

So controlling the entrances could be used more tactically and battle over, you could try to establish a position in front of one and speed up reinforcements from your rear. Or have them controllable and require units on them to active them, like a Xel’Naga tower.

Or a player could be looking to control it to slow a push through a choke.

I mean I’m just spitballing of course. But say a bio-tank parade pushing kind of style could be made strong or weak depending on how the fields would be controlled.

I feel at present they’re just things that make you move faster or slower through chokes at present and that’s about it really.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
ThunderJunk
Profile Joined December 2015
United States677 Posts
February 12 2020 02:19 GMT
#33
I'm annoyed that every single finalist features spawns in the corners, and similar expansion layouts.

Beautiful maps though.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6900 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-12 06:12:01
February 12 2020 06:10 GMT
#34
On February 12 2020 08:17 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2020 06:22 brickrd wrote:
On February 12 2020 00:56 Superouman wrote:
On February 11 2020 15:20 Nightmarjoo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
At a first look Beckett Industries looks pretty good.

The standard/macro maps all look the same as each other and as most of the maps from the last few seasons. I dunno why you guys are obsessed with giving away 5 bases for free, with 7+ bases per player, only 2-players, and worst of all, an even number of paths.

I'm not a fan of Blackburn, but the other rush maps seem ok; though if any make it into the ladder pool I have no idea how good their gameplay will actually turn out.

On February 11 2020 07:25 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2020 05:18 Howard_Kao wrote:
Why does all maps look familiar and dull, I thought we're gonna have some crazy maps under the topic of adrenaline rush

Anything not familiar and dull gets vetoed to death. Just look at Zen, only the natural is unusual and the map is barely played.

You know I'm not terrified of "interesting" features; I loved Turbo Cruise and I liked Winter's Gate for example, but Zen is extremely uncomfortable to play on. The 2nd nat entrance is occasionally annoying, but normally you just block it off and rally to your 3rd and it's almost like the nat is normal. What makes the map hell to play on is the tiny misshapen main bases, especially in conjunction with the cliff face that turns into an expo, annoying pathing due to a thousand different mineral blocks, and how tight the map is as a whole. I think the tightness would be ok without the mineral blocks, and the layout as a whole would be more easily taken in without the cramped main, nat, and 3rd. All together these traits make for a typically unpleasant game, not the "innovative" feature of the 2nd nat entrance.

I want to like the map, it definitely stands out among the mappool of the last few seasons, but after playing a ton of games on the map I found I enjoyed sc2 much more after vetoing it.

However, I promise you can have traits that differentiate a map from its peers without hurting the gameplay.


Yeah i made too many mistakes on Zen

On February 12 2020 00:49 brickrd wrote:
i don't understand the point of putting accelerators in choke points. choke points are hard to move through, but you made them easier to move through, so it's just a less chokey choke point? pretty uninspired.



AZGs on chokes change the properties of the choke. It's more or less desirable depending on the stage of the game.

With a small army, it is only a boost because the army doesn't get spaghettified.

With a large army, the army gets spaghettified but still gets through the choke at a normal pace.

Setting a concave is very easy for battles with medium and large armies. But if the defender's army to too small, the attacker can still break through with a few less hits taken.

So depending on the time of the game, the size of the attacker and the defender's armies will vary and you won't use those chokes the same in the early, mid and late game.

________________

By the way, in this TLMC, there are 5 first time finalists.
- Agaton
- CharactR
- robeng
- Insidioussc2
- insidious_bombardier

This amount is crazy. The future of sc2 melee map making is safe.


sounds like a bunch of theorycraft you made up

But that’s the beauty of theorycraft!

Personally I think there could be more interesting uses of something like accelerating/slowing fields, namely make a variant that is directional.

Maybe while entering from one side it accelerates you through, decelerates if entering from the other side. Then you could have relatively long chunks of movement modifying fields.

So controlling the entrances could be used more tactically and battle over, you could try to establish a position in front of one and speed up reinforcements from your rear. Or have them controllable and require units on them to active them, like a Xel’Naga tower.

Or a player could be looking to control it to slow a push through a choke.

I mean I’m just spitballing of course. But say a bio-tank parade pushing kind of style could be made strong or weak depending on how the fields would be controlled.

I feel at present they’re just things that make you move faster or slower through chokes at present and that’s about it really.


The directional idea is kinda weird to play I guess, but the "take control" idea is nice!


On February 12 2020 11:19 ThunderJunk wrote:
I'm annoyed that every single finalist features spawns in the corners, and similar expansion layouts.

Beautiful maps though.


I agree. There is only one map that has same side spawns to bring a bit of excitement. All the others look a bit boring
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
February 12 2020 07:16 GMT
#35
On February 12 2020 06:22 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2020 00:56 Superouman wrote:
On February 11 2020 15:20 Nightmarjoo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
At a first look Beckett Industries looks pretty good.

The standard/macro maps all look the same as each other and as most of the maps from the last few seasons. I dunno why you guys are obsessed with giving away 5 bases for free, with 7+ bases per player, only 2-players, and worst of all, an even number of paths.

I'm not a fan of Blackburn, but the other rush maps seem ok; though if any make it into the ladder pool I have no idea how good their gameplay will actually turn out.

On February 11 2020 07:25 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2020 05:18 Howard_Kao wrote:
Why does all maps look familiar and dull, I thought we're gonna have some crazy maps under the topic of adrenaline rush

Anything not familiar and dull gets vetoed to death. Just look at Zen, only the natural is unusual and the map is barely played.

You know I'm not terrified of "interesting" features; I loved Turbo Cruise and I liked Winter's Gate for example, but Zen is extremely uncomfortable to play on. The 2nd nat entrance is occasionally annoying, but normally you just block it off and rally to your 3rd and it's almost like the nat is normal. What makes the map hell to play on is the tiny misshapen main bases, especially in conjunction with the cliff face that turns into an expo, annoying pathing due to a thousand different mineral blocks, and how tight the map is as a whole. I think the tightness would be ok without the mineral blocks, and the layout as a whole would be more easily taken in without the cramped main, nat, and 3rd. All together these traits make for a typically unpleasant game, not the "innovative" feature of the 2nd nat entrance.

I want to like the map, it definitely stands out among the mappool of the last few seasons, but after playing a ton of games on the map I found I enjoyed sc2 much more after vetoing it.

However, I promise you can have traits that differentiate a map from its peers without hurting the gameplay.


Yeah i made too many mistakes on Zen

On February 12 2020 00:49 brickrd wrote:
i don't understand the point of putting accelerators in choke points. choke points are hard to move through, but you made them easier to move through, so it's just a less chokey choke point? pretty uninspired.



AZGs on chokes change the properties of the choke. It's more or less desirable depending on the stage of the game.

With a small army, it is only a boost because the army doesn't get spaghettified.

With a large army, the army gets spaghettified but still gets through the choke at a normal pace.

Setting a concave is very easy for battles with medium and large armies. But if the defender's army to too small, the attacker can still break through with a few less hits taken.

So depending on the time of the game, the size of the attacker and the defender's armies will vary and you won't use those chokes the same in the early, mid and late game.

________________

By the way, in this TLMC, there are 5 first time finalists.
- Agaton
- CharactR
- robeng
- Insidioussc2
- insidious_bombardier

This amount is crazy. The future of sc2 melee map making is safe.


sounds like a bunch of theorycraft you made up


Ok then next time I won't bother answering you if you don't care about the actual answer.
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
hangfive
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany6 Posts
February 12 2020 10:59 GMT
#36
ooooo i like HardRain
the Atmosphere is so nice , the colors , the ambientsounds..
these little pools. lovely
pls vote ; )
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25054 Posts
February 12 2020 14:22 GMT
#37
On February 12 2020 15:10 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2020 08:17 Wombat_NI wrote:
On February 12 2020 06:22 brickrd wrote:
On February 12 2020 00:56 Superouman wrote:
On February 11 2020 15:20 Nightmarjoo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
At a first look Beckett Industries looks pretty good.

The standard/macro maps all look the same as each other and as most of the maps from the last few seasons. I dunno why you guys are obsessed with giving away 5 bases for free, with 7+ bases per player, only 2-players, and worst of all, an even number of paths.

I'm not a fan of Blackburn, but the other rush maps seem ok; though if any make it into the ladder pool I have no idea how good their gameplay will actually turn out.

On February 11 2020 07:25 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2020 05:18 Howard_Kao wrote:
Why does all maps look familiar and dull, I thought we're gonna have some crazy maps under the topic of adrenaline rush

Anything not familiar and dull gets vetoed to death. Just look at Zen, only the natural is unusual and the map is barely played.

You know I'm not terrified of "interesting" features; I loved Turbo Cruise and I liked Winter's Gate for example, but Zen is extremely uncomfortable to play on. The 2nd nat entrance is occasionally annoying, but normally you just block it off and rally to your 3rd and it's almost like the nat is normal. What makes the map hell to play on is the tiny misshapen main bases, especially in conjunction with the cliff face that turns into an expo, annoying pathing due to a thousand different mineral blocks, and how tight the map is as a whole. I think the tightness would be ok without the mineral blocks, and the layout as a whole would be more easily taken in without the cramped main, nat, and 3rd. All together these traits make for a typically unpleasant game, not the "innovative" feature of the 2nd nat entrance.

I want to like the map, it definitely stands out among the mappool of the last few seasons, but after playing a ton of games on the map I found I enjoyed sc2 much more after vetoing it.

However, I promise you can have traits that differentiate a map from its peers without hurting the gameplay.


Yeah i made too many mistakes on Zen

On February 12 2020 00:49 brickrd wrote:
i don't understand the point of putting accelerators in choke points. choke points are hard to move through, but you made them easier to move through, so it's just a less chokey choke point? pretty uninspired.



AZGs on chokes change the properties of the choke. It's more or less desirable depending on the stage of the game.

With a small army, it is only a boost because the army doesn't get spaghettified.

With a large army, the army gets spaghettified but still gets through the choke at a normal pace.

Setting a concave is very easy for battles with medium and large armies. But if the defender's army to too small, the attacker can still break through with a few less hits taken.

So depending on the time of the game, the size of the attacker and the defender's armies will vary and you won't use those chokes the same in the early, mid and late game.

________________

By the way, in this TLMC, there are 5 first time finalists.
- Agaton
- CharactR
- robeng
- Insidioussc2
- insidious_bombardier

This amount is crazy. The future of sc2 melee map making is safe.


sounds like a bunch of theorycraft you made up

But that’s the beauty of theorycraft!

Personally I think there could be more interesting uses of something like accelerating/slowing fields, namely make a variant that is directional.

Maybe while entering from one side it accelerates you through, decelerates if entering from the other side. Then you could have relatively long chunks of movement modifying fields.

So controlling the entrances could be used more tactically and battle over, you could try to establish a position in front of one and speed up reinforcements from your rear. Or have them controllable and require units on them to active them, like a Xel’Naga tower.

Or a player could be looking to control it to slow a push through a choke.

I mean I’m just spitballing of course. But say a bio-tank parade pushing kind of style could be made strong or weak depending on how the fields would be controlled.

I feel at present they’re just things that make you move faster or slower through chokes at present and that’s about it really.


The directional idea is kinda weird to play I guess, but the "take control" idea is nice!


Show nested quote +
On February 12 2020 11:19 ThunderJunk wrote:
I'm annoyed that every single finalist features spawns in the corners, and similar expansion layouts.

Beautiful maps though.


I agree. There is only one map that has same side spawns to bring a bit of excitement. All the others look a bit boring

There is a fine line between interesting and gimmicky but I quite like the look of that one.

It’s a shame I just never think they really get maps and pools right, and I have long thought ladder and how it works plays into this.

There’s not much room for experimentation and things get a bit same, I’ve long felt the map pool should have more maps full stop, with more vetoes.

Or more maps and a set of vetoes for each of your matchups. As a Protoss player I’ve had to veto many a map that made for great macro PvT matches because it was too Zerg favoured was generally the pattern with me, but I’m sure others have had differing experiences.

Then over a ladder season you can get a sense with ladder data of what the good, balanced maps tend to be for each specific matchup and feed those into tournament matches too.

As it has long been, IMO there aren’t enough maps in the pool, it gets stale and sometimes the interesting maps get rotated out too quickly, ones people are tired of stick around forever and there isn’t a huge amount of room for experimentation in the current pool.

Trying to make every map as close to 50/50 for every single matchup is a thankless task and it inevitably leads to really similar maps. I’d love to see what map makers could do with maps tailored for making the best TvT map possible as their remit, or whatever particular matchup.

There’s other things could be done too, experimental maps could give you special portraits and stuff to encourage people to give them a proper try.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
ZugzwangSC
Profile Joined October 2019
87 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-12 15:08:51
February 12 2020 15:08 GMT
#38
Congrats to the Finalists!!

Cool to see familiar names here, and a few I don't recognize.

I know it's not relevant to most, but for me a good map has to have a cool name. And to me, at first glance for the most part, these maps have pretty cool names. In a few cases, way cool.

Looking forward to learning the maps' actual features...
www.youtube.com/c/zugzwangstarcraft
ThunderJunk
Profile Joined December 2015
United States677 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-13 02:35:21
February 13 2020 01:37 GMT
#39
On February 12 2020 23:22 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2020 15:10 Harris1st wrote:
On February 12 2020 08:17 Wombat_NI wrote:
On February 12 2020 06:22 brickrd wrote:
On February 12 2020 00:56 Superouman wrote:
On February 11 2020 15:20 Nightmarjoo wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
At a first look Beckett Industries looks pretty good.

The standard/macro maps all look the same as each other and as most of the maps from the last few seasons. I dunno why you guys are obsessed with giving away 5 bases for free, with 7+ bases per player, only 2-players, and worst of all, an even number of paths.

I'm not a fan of Blackburn, but the other rush maps seem ok; though if any make it into the ladder pool I have no idea how good their gameplay will actually turn out.

On February 11 2020 07:25 Superouman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2020 05:18 Howard_Kao wrote:
Why does all maps look familiar and dull, I thought we're gonna have some crazy maps under the topic of adrenaline rush

Anything not familiar and dull gets vetoed to death. Just look at Zen, only the natural is unusual and the map is barely played.

You know I'm not terrified of "interesting" features; I loved Turbo Cruise and I liked Winter's Gate for example, but Zen is extremely uncomfortable to play on. The 2nd nat entrance is occasionally annoying, but normally you just block it off and rally to your 3rd and it's almost like the nat is normal. What makes the map hell to play on is the tiny misshapen main bases, especially in conjunction with the cliff face that turns into an expo, annoying pathing due to a thousand different mineral blocks, and how tight the map is as a whole. I think the tightness would be ok without the mineral blocks, and the layout as a whole would be more easily taken in without the cramped main, nat, and 3rd. All together these traits make for a typically unpleasant game, not the "innovative" feature of the 2nd nat entrance.

I want to like the map, it definitely stands out among the mappool of the last few seasons, but after playing a ton of games on the map I found I enjoyed sc2 much more after vetoing it.

However, I promise you can have traits that differentiate a map from its peers without hurting the gameplay.


Yeah i made too many mistakes on Zen

On February 12 2020 00:49 brickrd wrote:
i don't understand the point of putting accelerators in choke points. choke points are hard to move through, but you made them easier to move through, so it's just a less chokey choke point? pretty uninspired.



AZGs on chokes change the properties of the choke. It's more or less desirable depending on the stage of the game.

With a small army, it is only a boost because the army doesn't get spaghettified.

With a large army, the army gets spaghettified but still gets through the choke at a normal pace.

Setting a concave is very easy for battles with medium and large armies. But if the defender's army to too small, the attacker can still break through with a few less hits taken.

So depending on the time of the game, the size of the attacker and the defender's armies will vary and you won't use those chokes the same in the early, mid and late game.

________________

By the way, in this TLMC, there are 5 first time finalists.
- Agaton
- CharactR
- robeng
- Insidioussc2
- insidious_bombardier

This amount is crazy. The future of sc2 melee map making is safe.


sounds like a bunch of theorycraft you made up

But that’s the beauty of theorycraft!

Personally I think there could be more interesting uses of something like accelerating/slowing fields, namely make a variant that is directional.

Maybe while entering from one side it accelerates you through, decelerates if entering from the other side. Then you could have relatively long chunks of movement modifying fields.

So controlling the entrances could be used more tactically and battle over, you could try to establish a position in front of one and speed up reinforcements from your rear. Or have them controllable and require units on them to active them, like a Xel’Naga tower.

Or a player could be looking to control it to slow a push through a choke.

I mean I’m just spitballing of course. But say a bio-tank parade pushing kind of style could be made strong or weak depending on how the fields would be controlled.

I feel at present they’re just things that make you move faster or slower through chokes at present and that’s about it really.


The directional idea is kinda weird to play I guess, but the "take control" idea is nice!


On February 12 2020 11:19 ThunderJunk wrote:
I'm annoyed that every single finalist features spawns in the corners, and similar expansion layouts.

Beautiful maps though.


I agree. There is only one map that has same side spawns to bring a bit of excitement. All the others look a bit boring

There is a fine line between interesting and gimmicky but I quite like the look of that one.

It’s a shame I just never think they really get maps and pools right, and I have long thought ladder and how it works plays into this.

There’s not much room for experimentation and things get a bit same, I’ve long felt the map pool should have more maps full stop, with more vetoes.

Or more maps and a set of vetoes for each of your matchups. As a Protoss player I’ve had to veto many a map that made for great macro PvT matches because it was too Zerg favoured was generally the pattern with me, but I’m sure others have had differing experiences.

Then over a ladder season you can get a sense with ladder data of what the good, balanced maps tend to be for each specific matchup and feed those into tournament matches too.

As it has long been, IMO there aren’t enough maps in the pool, it gets stale and sometimes the interesting maps get rotated out too quickly, ones people are tired of stick around forever and there isn’t a huge amount of room for experimentation in the current pool.

Trying to make every map as close to 50/50 for every single matchup is a thankless task and it inevitably leads to really similar maps. I’d love to see what map makers could do with maps tailored for making the best TvT map possible as their remit, or whatever particular matchup.

There’s other things could be done too, experimental maps could give you special portraits and stuff to encourage people to give them a proper try.


I appreciate your thoughts here.

I want more super out-there maps (e.g., Dasan Station, Klontas Mire, etc.) Most of my fun in playing Starcraft2 comes from making my own creative adaptations and unique build orders. I'd much rather have slightly or somewhat imbalanced maps that are fun to discover then a map pool of 7 balanced maps that all look and play basically the same. I know I'm not alone in this. Shoot, if I could have 7 weird maps, I'd take it. I'll compromise with less, but come on, None!? Whaatever...

That said, the mapmakers did a great job making beautiful maps, so congrats to the finalists.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
PeterLoL
Profile Joined February 2020
1 Post
February 13 2020 08:28 GMT
#40
On February 11 2020 10:43 agripsss wrote:
i havent played it yet but a map like blackburn is just so refreshing to see again


I agree, it will be fun to play a map like that again!
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 222
StarCraft: Brood War
Noble 160
PianO 130
Bale 24
Dota 2
monkeys_forever693
ODPixel142
NeuroSwarm97
League of Legends
JimRising 832
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1255
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor102
Other Games
summit1g8452
shahzam781
hungrybox376
ViBE191
SortOf18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick41603
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH366
• Hupsaiya 81
• Light_VIP 53
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1065
• Stunt473
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
4h 17m
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
OSC
7h 17m
Replay Cast
18h 17m
RSL Revival
1d 4h
Classic vs Cure
FEL
1d 10h
OSC
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
FEL
2 days
FEL
2 days
CSO Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
FEL
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-07-07
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.