EPTO’Gaming has the experience of doing a global tournament with players from every country in Nation Wars so they might be the best qualified to run WESG qualifiers.
Imagine if WESG had TakeTV or O’Gaming organize
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
O’Gaming has the experience of doing a global tournament with players from every country in Nation Wars so they might be the best qualified to run WESG qualifiers. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
It does seem to help the scene grow, the Vietnamese scene for exemple is starting to be decent, same at HK or in South East Asia in general | ||
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Tastyyyy
Portugal95 Posts
On December 08 2019 03:22 Nakajin wrote: Altought I agree WESG qualifier are super confusing, the way Alibaba does it has the merit to throw a big pile of money to random places. Off stream asian qualifier regularly have thousands dollars of prize pools, if it was done by a competant org I feel like those would get killed asap for a more logical distribution. It does seem to help the scene grow, the Vietnamese scene for exemple is starting to be decent, same at HK or in South East Asia in general Exactly, for example, Japan has a prizepool of 10.000 USD (6k for 1st place). This seems to be odd since the scene there is very small and one of the main regions (Europe) doesn't seem to have any prizepool. However, in my opinion, this is good. It means that small scene has an big early event to look forward too, players practice and someday we might have someone that can put up a fight vs the big boys (PsiArc is the most know japanese player). | ||
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kaby
Russian Federation195 Posts
Regarding the EU qualifiers, WESG obviously doesn't have any sponsors to sell to the EU audience, that's why they pick UCC to organize because those folks are at least x2 cheaper than O'Gaming, StarLadder, or ESL. They just want to arrange a big thing in China and do it as cheap as possible. | ||
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
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Wardi
England897 Posts
Europe has no prize pool because no organization has stepped forward to run an offline event. If an organisation said they would, WESG would fund the prize pools and some of the costs. This is what happens in the other regions. Honestly everybody is always just negative about WESG. Could it be better? Yes. Is SC2 and the western audience their main priority? No. Should we be thankful they are pouring A LOT of money into running an extra tournament for us? Yes. Stop dreaming of a world where SC2 is the priority, because it isn’t whether you like to hear it or not. Negative threads like this will do nothing but give SC2 a bad image from the community. | ||
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Tastyyyy
Portugal95 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25193 Posts
On December 08 2019 07:42 Wardi wrote: You have to realise that they hired a company to run qualifiers for every game. It’s not like they just decided to say ‘screw it we’ll pick a company that hasn’t done much in SC2 before!’ They picked a company which can sort all of the games qualifiers. Europe has no prize pool because no organization has stepped forward to run an offline event. If an organisation said they would, WESG would fund the prize pools and some of the costs. This is what happens in the other regions. Honestly everybody is always just negative about WESG. Could it be better? Yes. Is SC2 and the western audience their main priority? No. Should we be thankful they are pouring A LOT of money into running an extra tournament for us? Yes. Stop dreaming of a world where SC2 is the priority, because it isn’t whether you like to hear it or not. Negative threads like this will do nothing but give SC2 a bad image from the community. ‘Could it be better? Yes.’ You said it yourself and most ‘negativity’ comes from that place, not ‘WESG is total shit’. As with the last WCG you don’t have to dilute your product, ignore the Asian audience that’s important to to give the West a good product too. They’re pouring a ton of money into something that isn’t exactly smoothly run, and has far less prestige than it should for this exact reason. | ||
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Master of DalK
Canada1797 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
However at this point I'm just glad someone is still willing to invest money in SC2, not to mention on an international scale. | ||
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FBTsingLoong
China410 Posts
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
System is cool, it's actually what wcs should be, or at least Blizzard planned it, from start. Be the best in your street, town, city, country, continent, world. I come from a smaller country where scene was unexistant for years. From 2010 even. We had offline tournaments with 8 to 16 players. Sometimes less. Nowadays, all guys, from gold to GM, who are from ex Yugoslavia, gathered to play this quali. We all strived to win China slot, improved, alligned to practice, etc. At the day of prequalifier cup we met bunch of players we didnt even knew that exist, much of were master players, which was unbelieveable to all of us. Now, we organised a team, hopefully a league with all other adriatic countries, and our scene is getting sense, we all practice more, we are more passionate about game and upcoming cup/leagues. So thanks to WESG for all of this, continue to exist and I hope qualifiers will be organized better i future. I mean, with more viewers and sponsors. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25193 Posts
On December 08 2019 20:40 JanDe wrote: To me, WESG help more to local scenes then any WCS season in history, or all other cups. System is cool, it's actually what wcs should be, or at least Blizzard planned it, from start. Be the best in your street, town, city, country, continent, world. I come from a smaller country where scene was unexistant for years. From 2010 even. We had offline tournaments with 8 to 16 players. Sometimes less. Nowadays, all guys, from gold to GM, who are from ex Yugoslavia, gathered to play this quali. We all strived to win China slot, improved, alligned to practice, etc. At the day of prequalifier cup we met bunch of players we didnt even knew that exist, much of were master players, which was unbelieveable to all of us. Now, we organised a team, hopefully a league with all other adriatic countries, and our scene is getting sense, we all practice more, we are more passionate about game and upcoming cup/leagues. So thanks to WESG for all of this, continue to exist and I hope qualifiers will be organized better i future. I mean, with more viewers and sponsors. I think WCS works fine for the tournament it’s meant to be. I agree with you on WESG though too. The Olympics isn’t the best competitors in the world only, but the best few from each country and for some just getting to the Olympics is the achievement. I’ve long felt eSports needs a good tournament in that vein and WCG has long ceased being that and WESG isn’t quite that either. Ireland is a pretty small Starcraft nation too, we try to organise our own annual tournament for bragging rights but we’re all getting older and it’s harder to get everyone gathered. So yeah absolutely tournaments like this are great for gathering scenes together, especially smaller scenes. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 08 2019 20:40 JanDe wrote: To me, WESG help more to local scenes then any WCS season in history, or all other cups. System is cool, it's actually what wcs should be, or at least Blizzard planned it, from start. Be the best in your street, town, city, country, continent, world. I come from a smaller country where scene was unexistant for years. From 2010 even. We had offline tournaments with 8 to 16 players. Sometimes less. Nowadays, all guys, from gold to GM, who are from ex Yugoslavia, gathered to play this quali. We all strived to win China slot, improved, alligned to practice, etc. At the day of prequalifier cup we met bunch of players we didnt even knew that exist, much of were master players, which was unbelieveable to all of us. Now, we organised a team, hopefully a league with all other adriatic countries, and our scene is getting sense, we all practice more, we are more passionate about game and upcoming cup/leagues. So thanks to WESG for all of this, continue to exist and I hope qualifiers will be organized better i future. I mean, with more viewers and sponsors. This is really great to hear! Hope you're going to keep it going. It's great that WESG has this effect around the world. Still think they could do with more strict planning and less changes every year, that wouldn't change that they're supporting local scenes. | ||
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
On December 08 2019 20:52 Wombat_NI wrote: I think WCS works fine for the tournament it’s meant to be. I agree with you on WESG though too. The Olympics isn’t the best competitors in the world only, but the best few from each country and for some just getting to the Olympics is the achievement. I’ve long felt eSports needs a good tournament in that vein and WCG has long ceased being that and WESG isn’t quite that either. Ireland is a pretty small Starcraft nation too, we try to organise our own annual tournament for bragging rights but we’re all getting older and it’s harder to get everyone gathered. So yeah absolutely tournaments like this are great for gathering scenes together, especially smaller scenes. I agree with you just said what was WCS idea at the beggining. Several years ago. We also have same problems, but even more populous countries have it as I see. | ||
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
On December 08 2019 21:39 sneakyfox wrote: This is really great to hear! Hope you're going to keep it going. It's great that WESG has this effect around the world. Still think they could do with more strict planning and less changes every year, that wouldn't change that they're supporting local scenes. I hope so aswell. We jumped from 6-7 active players to like 20. Which is more then we had at WOL! | ||
hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
- their organisation of the qualifiers and especially their communication about them is bad af (if you write with one admin he tells you they use format A, 5 minutes later another admin (of the same regional qualifier) tells you its a different format) - they provided wrong information to some players - they apparently aren’t able to write the player names correctly and thus tried to invite wrong players or can’t find information about players at all - they completly ignore existing schedules of other already beforehand announced tournaments - their social media requirements towards the players and teams seem a bit extreme (at least in eu region) - the prize pool SPLIT is a bad joke - the seeding for the main event is completely crazy - the qualifier spot SPLIT (and also the money distributed to those qualifiers) is even worse then WCS - in the past the hotels and flights for the participants have been a bad joke - ... so I can fully understand people who are not happy with WESG and I also can fully support players that insta declined their WESG closed qualifier invites for the above listed reasons (and some others) e.g. HeRoMaRinE (just a Global Finals participant in 2018 and 2019) will not participate in any WESG tournaments until things change. btw. for people who want to see his on stream explanation why he doesn’t participate: twitch.tv | ||
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WardiTV
569 Posts
On December 08 2019 22:55 hjpalpha wrote: imo there are several things wrong with WESG: - their organisation of the qualifiers and especially their communication about them is bad af (if you write with one admin he tells you they use format A, 5 minutes later another admin (of the same regional qualifier) tells you its a different format) - they provided wrong information to some players - they apparently aren’t able to write the player names correctly and thus tried to invite wrong players or can’t find information about players at all - they completly ignore existing schedules of other already beforehand announced tournaments - their social media requirements towards the players and teams seem a bit extreme (at least in eu region) - the prize pool SPLIT is a bad joke - the seeding for the main event is completely crazy - the qualifier spot SPLIT (and also the money distributed to those qualifiers) is even worse then WCS - in the past the hotels and flights for the participants have been a bad joke - ... so I can fully understand people who are not happy with WESG and I also can fully support players that insta declined their WESG closed qualifier invites for the above listed reasons (and some others) e.g. HeRoMaRinE (just a Global Finals participant in 2018 and 2019) will not participate in any WESG tournaments until things change. btw. for people who want to see his on stream explanation why he doesn’t participate: twitch.tv I don't have information about "changing formats" or the first few points so I won't comment. What existing schedules have they ignored? What social media requirements, the ones where they paid players to Tweet out about the tournament and sign-ups? Yeah seems like a really tough demand being paid for a Tweet. Prize pool split has always been agreed as disappointing, yet they continue to improve their format each year based on feedback and maybe we even see a different split this year. Seeding for main event I agree. Qualifier spot split is based on other games as well AND ALSO IMPROVES EACH YEAR! This year we will see more Koreans than ever before at a WESG event. Hotels and flights have been a bad joke but also have been fixed very quickly too. When ShoWTimE had a long layover, they booked him a hotel etc. When the hotel was bad, they moved all of the players out to a new hotel within the day and reimbursed all the players who moved themselves into different hotels. I don't even think there was issues in the most recent one with this stuff. Yeah it's not perfect but I also feel like people are so quick to jump on and complain about everything because it became "cool" to be disappointed in WESG. At the end of the day, the qualifiers and tournament is ran well enough and is attractive enough for 99% of players to take part and attend the event. Do you think that if it was truly that bad people would still turn up and play? | ||
digmouse
China6329 Posts
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On December 09 2019 01:04 digmouse wrote: The manager over there who oversees WESG's operations is a personal friend of mine and is a very dedicated Starcraft fan who started his career in covering the game. I'm not too familiar with their internal debates but can be sure that there are factors outside of their reach for managing such a huge event on a global level. Since you're from China, you probably already have a hunch that politics have something to do with it. I don't want to go into details as I don't want to inject too much politics into the thread, but you must already know. | ||
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
On December 09 2019 01:57 tigon_ridge wrote: Since you're from China, you probably already have a hunch that politics have something to do with it. I don't want to go into details as I don't want to inject too much politics into the thread, but you must already know. Nothing to do with politics, it is to put simply, a huge undertaking that is bound to go wrong if you don't absolutely take every step right. Sadly, the team at WESG don't actually have the leisure of working exactly as what they wanted, as multiple factors such as budget, differences in vision on which market to put more resources on, etc, are completely out of their jurisdiction. | ||
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Master of DalK
Canada1797 Posts
On December 09 2019 02:45 digmouse wrote: Nothing to do with politics, it is to put simply, a huge undertaking that is bound to go wrong if you don't absolutely take every step right. Sadly, the team at WESG don't actually have the leisure of working exactly as what they wanted, as multiple factors such as budget, differences in vision on which market to put more resources on are completely out of their jurisdiction. As I and Wardi had mentioned previously as well - with WESG not actually being run by WESG on a regional level it will make it impossible to have coherency globally. | ||
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digmouse
China6329 Posts
On December 09 2019 02:47 Master of DalK wrote: As I and Wardi had mentioned previously as well - with WESG not actually being run by WESG on a regional level it will make it impossible to have coherency globally. Ideally, you'd want to have your own people running every level of operation, that's not an option for them. It probably was deemed not worth the cost and manpower for them, I'd guess. | ||
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On December 09 2019 00:33 WardiTV wrote: I don't have information about "changing formats" or the first few points so I won't comment. in general their missing information and misinformation are just annoying af, especially for people that help in trying to cover their tournament on liquipedia (i am not the only liquipedia contributor that is „a bit“ annoyed with wesg orga) as for the other points, just as a few examples (all UCC): - they asked liquipedia people who they could invite to the german qualifier because showtime and gabe (the top 2 germans) had declined, BUT they never asked showtime in the first place (that only has come to notice early enough because i mentioned it to special who couldn’t belive it and asked showtime who then contacted the ucc guys on his own) btw. thats also the reason why for this closed qualifier they changed the number of invites from 2 to 3 (so they could invite showtime) and why they had to do a decider match between the 2 winners of the open qualifiers (because now only 2 seed for that was left)) - for the de+at qualifiers they wrote the players that there would be 3 qualy slots for the main event, a few days later they said it was 2 (in the google sheet they shared on liquipedia discord) - in their google sheet with the brackets 1/4th of the player names was written wrong (they also replaced lambo with denver in there for the de+at qualifier - got fixed because i notified some of their admins) (- also some more points i could proof but will not share because i received that stuff somewhat for private info only) What existing schedules have they ignored? e.g. NationWars Aeromi had to change and adjust quite some stuff because of it (also the na qualifier is at the same time as the nationwars finals, so if ca/us would have made it that far they would have played without neeb and scarlett) What social media requirements, the ones where they paid players to Tweet out about the tournament and sign-ups? Yeah seems like a really tough demand being paid for a Tweet. if that were it i wouldn’t see a problem. players have to tweet for them (also their teams) just to be allowed to play in the closed qualifiers also players are supposed to tweet provided match highlights about themself even if they lost ... (at least that is what they wrote in some of their mails to players) Prize pool split has always been agreed as disappointing, yet they continue to improve their format each year based on feedback and maybe we even see a different split this year. Seeding for main event I agree. Qualifier spot split is based on other games as well AND ALSO IMPROVES EACH YEAR! This year we will see more Koreans than ever before at a WESG event. Hotels and flights have been a bad joke but also have been fixed very quickly too. When ShoWTimE had a long layover, they booked him a hotel etc. When the hotel was bad, they moved all of the players out to a new hotel within the day and reimbursed all the players who moved themselves into different hotels. I don't even think there was issues in the most recent one with this stuff. yes, regarding hotel they improved from what i heared but the flights for the last wesg were still shit from what i heared Yeah it's not perfect but I also feel like people are so quick to jump on and complain about everything because it became "cool" to be disappointed in WESG. At the end of the day, the qualifiers and tournament is ran well enough and is attractive enough for 99% of players to take part and attend the event. Do you think that if it was truly that bad people would still turn up and play? tbh, for most players its just the money i agree that not everything about WESG is bad, i just think they have lots of room to improve and if one doesn’t mention it how should they know? (and also i am a bit frustrated about their missing information) oh and please if someone could tell them to just use the normal draw/win/loss rules any normal sc2 tournament uses that would be great  (at least for the qualifiers they had it in the rules that a player also lost if he/she had no units, so no tie due to floating buildings would be possible) | ||
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Master of DalK
Canada1797 Posts
On December 09 2019 02:48 digmouse wrote: Ideally, you'd want to have your own people running every level of operation, that's not an option for them. It probably was deemed not worth the cost and manpower for them, I'd guess. Just in travel & accomodations alone, its quite the sizable cost. | ||
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Kertorak
125 Posts
It's okay in the topic, in the thread itself - if you want a healthy discussion and a normal thread... you should actually explain your point whicih involves making sure the HAF abbreviations are explained or linked or anything hinted at. | ||
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hjpalpha
Germany339 Posts
On December 09 2019 07:38 Kertorak wrote: MAYBE if you are creating a thread... you could point oout what your abbreviations stand for. It's okay in the topic, in the thread itself - if you want a healthy discussion and a normal thread... you should actually explain your point whicih involves making sure the HAF abbreviations are explained or linked or anything hinted at. did you mean me? af - well you seem to know that one ... orga - organisation UCC - the name of the company that does the eu qualifiers de - the alpha-2 iso (3166-2) flag code for germany (that is what we use on liquipedia to e.g. set the player flags) at - the alpha-2 iso (3166-2) flag code for austria (that is what we use on liquipedia to e.g. set the player flags) e.g. - indicates that examples will follow na - north america us - the alpha-2 iso (3166-2) flag code for united states of america (that is what we use on liquipedia to e.g. set the player flags) ca - the alpha-2 iso (3166-2) flag code for canada (that is what we use on liquipedia to e.g. set the player flags) tbh - to be honest wesg - the tournaments name (world electronic sports games) | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6922 Posts
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