4.11.0 Patch - Major balance changes, Mengsk Commander - P…

On November 30 2019 18:34 Doko wrote:
If zealots were shit which I really don't think its the case, a buff I would suggest would be sentries getting a movement speed buff while their own guardian shield is active, to help them keep up with the zealots.

Also from a spectator point of view with no concerns for balance, I want motherships to not be abductable. It looks ridiculous. 400/400 meme etc.

On December 01 2019 03:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

Perhaps a change where abduction doesn't work on MASSIVE units ?

On December 01 2019 01:21 Shuffleblade wrote:

So pros experience and opinion doesn't matter, got it.


So you tried the units and YOU don't like them and therefore its the truth? Oh and also one pro actually agree with me so I must be right even if multiple other pros disagree

The cold hard truth is that zealot charge overall was changed, not buffed not nerfed but changed. Zealots with charge are stronger in some situations and weaker in others. That means that if you expect them to work as well as before in all situations the problem actually lies with you. Use the unit in the ways that it is good now, instead of stubbornly trying to use it is the same as before and complain that it was changed as if you didn't know that.

If terrans need to retreat from zealots they need to stim a lot harder than before and therefore lose more health and medivac energy. Your comment how terrans dont even need to micro against mass zealots now really makes you seem like you don't understand the concept of starcraft at all. If a zerg would rage because mass zerglings (fast but frail, kind of similar to current zealots) cant counter a dense bio ball with medivacs everyone would laugh at him. Throw in some banelings (tldr colossi, storm or disruptors) and that would look a hell of a lot different. If terran bio needs to be dense to counter chargelots how about mixing in units that counter units that huddle up densily?

On December 01 2019 03:04 Athenau wrote:


How on earth did Zealots get a "massive dps nerf" against buildings? That's the one scenario when the impact damage doesn't matter at all because they charge once and then just sit there swinging away.

When charge is off cooldown, you can move command your chargelots away, then tell them to attack again, to deal with charge damage. If you do it right, it matters. A lot.

On December 01 2019 04:24 BabelFish1 wrote:


This shows that you've no concept of StarCraft 2 mate. I'll break it down.

When a unit loses 1/3rd of it's damage and gains a bunch of movement speed instead...that's a huge nerf. Movement speed doesn't make up for 33% damage loss and we have examples of this in TvP; bio vs chargelots already. They are no longer a front line unit, they are too fast to keep together with supporting units, they can't tank worth a damn now and they kill stuff in 33% more time, provided you actively use the charge micro trick.

Zerglings and Chargelots are not even close to comparable...Zerglings have Zerg production to swarm with them and you get 2 for the price of 1. Zealots to be comparable need a TON of gateways which only happens late game. Zealots are also twice the cost, twice the supply, etc...perhaps it's you who lacks understanding of StarCraft 2?

Chargelots didn't counter bio, they contested it when the Terran moved out onto the map at 5 minutes with a 2 base allin...
Just a thought here, maybe you shouldn't take such a rude tone when your understanding of the situation is...lacking to say the least.

On December 01 2019 03:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

Perhaps a change where abduction doesn't work on MASSIVE units ?

On December 01 2019 05:11 Slydie wrote:


I am not sure if you are trolling but I really think you are wrong here. First, you have to show how you calculate that loss of dps.. I suspect you count only the first attack, but if the unit attacks more than once it looks very different, with the DPS drop being smaller for each hit. This is even if you used your double charge trick, which might lose out on a normal attack in the process.

Also, if you have ever seen slowling vs speedling fights you would know that the time it takes for a unit to surround, retreat, chase or go from one target to the next matters a lot.

Calculating actual damage output during a fight is much more complicated than just adding up the impact of the first attack...

On December 01 2019 10:36 Obamarauder wrote:
bio is near unplayable on these maps except triton. like how do you actually attack on maps like eternal empire and simulacrum playing bio

On December 01 2019 03:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:

Perhaps a change where abduction doesn't work on MASSIVE units ?

On December 01 2019 04:56 AttackZerg wrote:
After dunking on heavy mech- thor-tank-hellion- compositions with ling-lurker-ultra-viper with a handful of corrupters... I am sure they are going to weaken lurkers.

A few blinding clouds, a few ultras to tank and woah, the +10 range lurkers just destroy heavy mech.

Armies that would require multiple remakes to eliminate before (without IT abuse) now are totally fightable.

Also, most of the maps are too big for mech.

ZvP.... is way harder now. I am not good or gosu but toss is alot more threatening now. The new void Ray's can eliminate a defended base in seconds. You can no longer ignore the early phase of sky toss.

Lurkers are sooo good thou. Leave a few at the fourth, wait for probe transfer and bam.

Anyone else using dropper lords more now?

Roach-ling drops really force protoss to decided between attack and defense more.

So strange that temps and dts aren't used in small numbers to defend bases ala bw. Sometimes I see a temp or 2 but I rarely see dts used to stymie ling-roach psuedo counters.

On December 01 2019 17:26 batatm wrote:

if abduct won't work on massive units what's there to abduct?
massive units in the game:
T- thor, BC
Z- BL, ultralisk
P- archon, colossus, carrier, mothership
we're left with immortal, tempest, siege tank and liberator, and the occasional medivac/warp prism.
i don't think branding all the high priority units in the game immune to abduct is a good move.

On December 01 2019 07:01 BabelFish1 wrote:


I don't troll here, I just have a very short patience span when it comes to elitism and hubris. Very, very short and if I see it, I will call a person out for it without getting into name calling or other silly childish acts.

I counted the second attack, that's why it's a 33% damage nerf and not a 50% damage nerf. A lot of the time, Zeralots don't get more than 2 attacks off, they end up dying after throwing out 24 total damage, before upgrades are factored in that's why I don't count a Zeralot staying alive to deal more damage than charge+2 attacks, it's not realistic outside of specific low supply scenarios. Like Charge at 4:30 to counter a Marine Tank 2 base allin or something similar.

It doesn't matter if chargelots can surround when they are too expensive to throw away and when they do get a surround, they just end up dying in a terribly inefficient trade anyhow. Especially since the speed means they'll end up auto engaging ahead of the army. You're constantly fighting your Zealots if you want to use them as a meat shield and not a runby skirmisher unit. So unless Zealots start costing 50 minerals and earl game, can be warped in sets of 2, there's no real comparison between the zealot and a zergling, even with the charge nerf.

On December 01 2019 07:50 Ben... wrote:
Having had a few days to play the new map pool, I gotta say it's really bad. It's as bad as last season's in some ways. Some of the maps aren't as big but expansions are still quite hard for terran and protoss to take compared to zerg. The trend of thirds being quite far away and open from multiple angles to attack is not a great one nor is the trend of having no ramps at thirds and double/triple-wide ramps everywhere on the map. Zen has multiple places you have to defend against baneling/ravager busts at the natural and every expansion past the third is out in wide open with no chokes or ramps at all. Not to mention that map has a ton of places for hiding overlords. Nightshade is similarly quite open with difficult expansions. Combine the issues of these two maps with Ephemeron, Triton, and World of Sleepers being kept over from last season and we're left with what seems to be another fairly zerg-favoured map pool like the last one. I think Nathanias said it best yesterday on stream when he said he hopes this map pool isn't used for tournaments at the start of next year.

The only maps in this pool I like are Simulacrum and Eternal Empire. Both at least have ramps at the third and actual chokes in different areas around the map.

On December 01 2019 21:40 Slydie wrote:


I mentioned Zerglings because the importance of the speed of melee units should be obvious in that scenario, not because I think they are the same.

In ranged vs melee fights, one could argue that speed is even more important.

Zealots alone are actually supposed to be mediocre vs stimmed bio with medivac support. Otherwise, there would be no incentive for protoss to tech up. Next time you see a dense marine ball, land a storm in the middle of it, have your faster zealots chase down the red bio and collect some Terran tears.

On December 02 2019 04:13 BabelFish1 wrote:


Doesn't work like that. At all.
Bio doesn't stand in storms until it's red unless the Terran is afk.
Chargelots never countered MMM unless you had an upgrade lead, it was early and it was a low supply battle.
When there is no upgrade lead, MMM can now stand still and kill chargelots whereas before, it had to stutter step.

So yeah, I disagree with you entirely.

Also, massing MMM vs things that do well against it is idiotic and a bad game mechanic. We don't need the days of every Terran going bio vs their counters back. That was brain dead muscle memory play and was very bad for sc2. Get 8 Hellions or Hellbats, replace them when they soak the chargelot charge and laugh as the chargelots all die as they pile into Hellbat AoE while bio stims them down.