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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
Still not sure why people think a simple removal of region lock will make much difference, there’s so much else to address.
The game lacks a platform for decent Korean talent to take that step up to the next level, a platform which does exist and I think works rather well in WCS irrespective of one’s opinions on the region locked component.
Not enough tournaments, too top-heavy prize funds and arguably a lack of locked tournaments in Korea are all issues.
As an aspiring hypothetical Korean pro gamer, it’s me on my own, maybe a few good practice partners and the ladder, going up against experienced pro gamers, many of whom were in Kespa houses.
Even in something like Olimoleague this is the case. Which I do enjoy but arguably maybe something like that should be restricted to amateurs or at least non-GSL players (just spitballing)
You can only improve playing better players incrementally, some gaps are just too big.
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At this point with Classic, herO, GuMiho, and FanTaSy retiring, and with even more to retire next year, continuing region lock would be nothing but pure sadism.
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On November 17 2019 19:50 sneakyfox wrote:
At this point with Classic, herO, GuMiho, and FanTaSy retiring, and with even more to retire next year, continuing region lock would be nothing but pure sadism.
I've heard of first three players but where fantasy announced his retirement?
Found it, sorry.
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Wow, Fantasy is retiring? I haven't heard anything about that. Shows how out of the loop I am.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On November 17 2019 19:50 sneakyfox wrote:
At this point with Classic, herO, GuMiho, and FanTaSy retiring, and with even more to retire next year, continuing region lock would be nothing but pure sadism.
Depends how it’s done, and what the calendar looks like. I think we’re long passed the point where removing region lock actually fixes much.
It’s not going to be the lower end who plays in WCS IMO, but the people higher up who have teams who can help with travel etc. If the GSL loses even a handful of top guys it’s going to be a disaster for that tournament’s hype and prestige.
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On November 17 2019 21:16 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2019 19:50 sneakyfox wrote:
At this point with Classic, herO, GuMiho, and FanTaSy retiring, and with even more to retire next year, continuing region lock would be nothing but pure sadism. Depends how it’s done, and what the calendar looks like. I think we’re long passed the point where removing region lock actually fixes much. It’s not going to be the lower end who plays in WCS IMO, but the people higher up who have teams who can help with travel etc. If the GSL loses even a handful of top guys it’s going to be a disaster for that tournament’s hype and prestige.
It's not really that it will fix the Korean scene, I don't know what can. But banning the small amount of Korean pros we have left from participating in WCS tournaments for the remaining year or two of their careers is just cruel at this point.
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They shouldn't have done so well in the past !
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On November 17 2019 19:50 sneakyfox wrote:
At this point with Classic, herO, GuMiho, and FanTaSy retiring, and with even more to retire next year, continuing region lock would be nothing but pure sadism.
You forgot Keen, who was improving and went to the army two years in advance. Stats, Zest, soO, TRUE will retire in 2020.
Fantasy's retirement is a huge waste, he was getting better to the point that he could fight quite evenly with Dark in Code S and perform some exceptional all kills in team leagues; I could be a little less sad if he goes back to Brood War where another top Terran would be badly needed these times.
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Fantasy's retirement proved my opinion. We will see more korean pro player retire in next year. Just like what I said: Soo, Zest, sOs, Stats, TRUE, Innovation has high possibility to retire in next year. If we lose them, then there's really no excuses for existence of region-lock policy.
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On November 17 2019 23:35 v5872012 wrote:
Fantasy's retirement proved my opinion. We will see more korean pro player retire in next year. Just like what I said: Soo, Zest, sOs, Stats, TRUE, Innovation has high possibility to retire in next year. If we lose them, then there's really no excuses for existence of region-lock policy.
Inno and sOs would theorically have another year left, we must see if they want to keep playing but with Terran becoming stronger Inno may shine again.
Region lock could be abolished, but both GSL and the Circuit would need to be redesigned because of that.
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Region lock killed the Korean scene to build EU. Was it worth it?
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On November 17 2019 23:54 tskarzyn wrote:
Region lock killed the Korean scene to build EU. Was it worth it?
Region lock didn't kill KeSpa, matchfixing did.
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On November 17 2019 23:32 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2019 19:50 sneakyfox wrote:
At this point with Classic, herO, GuMiho, and FanTaSy retiring, and with even more to retire next year, continuing region lock would be nothing but pure sadism. You forgot Keen, who was improving and went to the army two years in advance.
True, but that was just because he screwed up 
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Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
It really wasn't needed since kespa died.
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Maru 3:0'd TIME, not vice-versa
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In my opinion, more and more pro Korean players leaving the scene, I think it's actually making region lock more and more effective, contrary to intuition.
Why?
Less top Koreans, assuming a very limited number of foreigners continue to attempt Code S, means that more opportunities will be given to less established Korean players. That being said, I think there should be a couple more opportunities for Korean players to earn cash. Maybe one more open circuit event or something like that. I think the WCS system is about as good as it will get.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On November 18 2019 14:35 TentativePanda wrote:
In my opinion, more and more pro Korean players leaving the scene, I think it's actually making region lock more and more effective, contrary to intuition.
Why?
Less top Koreans, assuming a very limited number of foreigners continue to attempt Code S, means that more opportunities will be given to less established Korean players. That being said, I think there should be a couple more opportunities for Korean players to earn cash. Maybe one more open circuit event or something like that. I think the WCS system is about as good as it will get.
What does this have to do with the region lock? Korea is not region locked and majority of the top players is leaving because of the army. IIRC only Fantasy is leaving because of another game. Cancelling the region lock means nothing, it won't hold more top Koreans in GSL(because army and the closer they are the less they can travel), it won't affect GSL and it won't affect new or "low" Koreans as nobody will pay their costs.
Imagine me being an idiot and try to explain this one more time, this time use the "for dummies" version
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On November 18 2019 18:19 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2019 14:35 TentativePanda wrote:
In my opinion, more and more pro Korean players leaving the scene, I think it's actually making region lock more and more effective, contrary to intuition.
Why?
Less top Koreans, assuming a very limited number of foreigners continue to attempt Code S, means that more opportunities will be given to less established Korean players. That being said, I think there should be a couple more opportunities for Korean players to earn cash. Maybe one more open circuit event or something like that. I think the WCS system is about as good as it will get. What does this have to do with the region lock? Korea is not region locked and majority of the top players is leaving because of the army. IIRC only Fantasy is leaving because of another game. Cancelling the region lock means nothing, it won't hold more top Koreans in GSL(because army and the closer they are the less they can travel), it won't affect GSL and it won't affect new or "low" Koreans as nobody will pay their costs. Imagine me being an idiot and try to explain this one more time, this time use the "for dummies" version
Korea may as well be region locked for practicalities sake though.
Really what should have happened years ago was previous iterations of WCS should have been open to Koreans, but operate like the GSL does now. There was an overabundance of talent for just Korean Starleagues and exporting them to places where foreigners would get regular practice against better players would have raised the foreigner competitive standard.
Instead that didn’t really happen and the current WCS system was used, which works very well in that capacity but with other factors now makes it tough for Koreans to break through.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On November 18 2019 20:58 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2019 18:19 deacon.frost wrote:On November 18 2019 14:35 TentativePanda wrote:
In my opinion, more and more pro Korean players leaving the scene, I think it's actually making region lock more and more effective, contrary to intuition.
Why?
Less top Koreans, assuming a very limited number of foreigners continue to attempt Code S, means that more opportunities will be given to less established Korean players. That being said, I think there should be a couple more opportunities for Korean players to earn cash. Maybe one more open circuit event or something like that. I think the WCS system is about as good as it will get. What does this have to do with the region lock? Korea is not region locked and majority of the top players is leaving because of the army. IIRC only Fantasy is leaving because of another game. Cancelling the region lock means nothing, it won't hold more top Koreans in GSL(because army and the closer they are the less they can travel), it won't affect GSL and it won't affect new or "low" Koreans as nobody will pay their costs. Imagine me being an idiot and try to explain this one more time, this time use the "for dummies" version Korea may as well be region locked for practicalities sake though. + Show Spoiler +Really what should have happened years ago was previous iterations of WCS should have been open to Koreans, but operate like the GSL does now. There was an overabundance of talent for just Korean Starleagues and exporting them to places where foreigners would get regular practice against better players would have raised the foreigner competitive standard.
Instead that didn’t really happen and the current WCS system was used, which works very well in that capacity but with other factors now makes it tough for Koreans to break through.
Foreigner house. So there's only the problem of living in the foreign country which not everyone handles well. NoRegret somewhere said that he generally will accept anyone who's decent enough(the requirements weren't tough) and I bet he would accept any current pro, especially the top ones who would have a shot in the Code S qualifiers. I think he said it when he was introducing the new house, either on an episode of the Pylon show, or in the standalone video. Don't remember now.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On November 18 2019 21:07 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2019 20:58 Wombat_NI wrote:On November 18 2019 18:19 deacon.frost wrote:On November 18 2019 14:35 TentativePanda wrote:
In my opinion, more and more pro Korean players leaving the scene, I think it's actually making region lock more and more effective, contrary to intuition.
Why?
Less top Koreans, assuming a very limited number of foreigners continue to attempt Code S, means that more opportunities will be given to less established Korean players. That being said, I think there should be a couple more opportunities for Korean players to earn cash. Maybe one more open circuit event or something like that. I think the WCS system is about as good as it will get. What does this have to do with the region lock? Korea is not region locked and majority of the top players is leaving because of the army. IIRC only Fantasy is leaving because of another game. Cancelling the region lock means nothing, it won't hold more top Koreans in GSL(because army and the closer they are the less they can travel), it won't affect GSL and it won't affect new or "low" Koreans as nobody will pay their costs. Imagine me being an idiot and try to explain this one more time, this time use the "for dummies" version Korea may as well be region locked for practicalities sake though. + Show Spoiler +Really what should have happened years ago was previous iterations of WCS should have been open to Koreans, but operate like the GSL does now. There was an overabundance of talent for just Korean Starleagues and exporting them to places where foreigners would get regular practice against better players would have raised the foreigner competitive standard.
Instead that didn’t really happen and the current WCS system was used, which works very well in that capacity but with other factors now makes it tough for Koreans to break through. Foreigner house. So there's only the problem of living in the foreign country which not everyone handles well. NoRegret somewhere said that he generally will accept anyone who's decent enough(the requirements weren't tough) and I bet he would accept any current pro, especially the top ones who would have a shot in the Code S qualifiers. I think he said it when he was introducing the new house, either on an episode of the Pylon show, or in the standalone video. Don't remember now.
I’m well aware of the existence of the foreigner house, NoRegret has done a sterling job there. I think we might see more give Korea a go this season, depends how the calendar is. Reynor has said in the past he’d like to give it another shot and he’s a bit older now and has banked a fair bit of cash this season so might go back for the challenge.
Aside from personal reticence it does preclude anyone who’s still at school from participating as well, or certainly does make it more difficult.
I’m not sure the GSL really needs to run quite as long as it does. It could be shortened a little without losing the preparation element that makes for great Starcraft.
Anyway my point was more that when Korea was that much more dominant that Koreans should have been able to compete in the old WCS tournaments, but with Korean versions of the foreigner houses etc in Europe and NA. So yeah they’d take the prize money but they’d also be contributing to raising the standard of those environments, but that didn’t really happen.
I’m less in favour of that now because the depth in Korea is now thin and especially for those approaching military service age I think we’d see people take their focus off the GSL and dilute its quality and prestige.
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EPT
