Serral wins WCS Fall 2019 - Page 5

On September 10 2019 01:05 Waxangel wrote:

That much I have to reluctantly allow as long as you don't get into personal insults against each other

Also I asked Serral how he feels about his PR placements solely to meme some of you regulars, and obviously, he gave me a polite, generic response (basically 'whatever')

"I mean, I honestly can't give a shit!"

On September 09 2019 23:04 Harris1st wrote:


We summon you, oh mighty Nakajin! Deliver us thy GOAT survey for thee year 2020

On September 10 2019 03:48 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
The gap this tournament really solidified for me is not the gap between Serral, Reynor and the rest which was already pretty apparent, but the gap between the top 8 and the rest. It's pretty crazy that Drogo, uThermal, Lambo etc couldn't even make the slightest dent in the top 8. I guess Stephano did beat TIME, but that was basically the only upset?

On September 10 2019 01:05 Waxangel wrote:

That much I have to reluctantly allow as long as you don't get into personal insults against each other

Also I asked Serral how he feels about his PR placements solely to meme some of you regulars, and obviously, he gave me a polite, generic response (basically 'whatever')

On September 10 2019 03:27 Nakajin wrote:


I have heard your command and I am already drawing the bracket. Next survey is gonna be better and bigger than the last, get ready for the round of 1028 match up between Teffel and ActionJesus

On September 10 2019 05:44 Dave4 wrote:

Respectfully I think once was enough. Also knockout bracket is a suboptimal format for such a ranking.

On September 10 2019 07:51 Jeremy Reimer wrote:


I think the reason that Brood War players were able to be more dominant is multi-fold.

The game itself rewarded skilled mechanics more than SC2. Sure, there were "build order wins" in certain matchups if one player chose one strategy and the other player randomly chose the counter, but a great player could nullify most build order advantages with immaculate play. Brood War demanded so much attention that it was easy for a mechanically weaker player to lose ground even if they were ahead. Being ahead in Brood War just meant that you had many more things to manage, and limits on the number of units in a control group made moving around large armies very difficult. These difficulties are not as great in SC2.

Even so, I recall that come-from-behind wins were rare in Brood War, so it had to be more than just that. The situation in the KeSPA era was an intense rivalry among a small and fairly stable group of players. This intense competition meant that often one or two players would rise to the top. These rivalries (like Flash-Jaedong) would motivate both players to practice even harder in order to beat their rival. The fallout from this was that players like Flash and Jaedong would typically just mow through anyone else who was not at their level.

Of course none of this explains how Flash managed to dominate so solidly both then and now. I don't think anything in the universe can explain Flash.

On September 10 2019 03:27 Nakajin wrote:


I have heard your command and I am already drawing the bracket. Next survey is gonna be better and bigger than the last, get ready for the round of 1028 match up between Teffel and ActionJesus

On September 10 2019 08:25 deacon.frost wrote:

Not exactly true. WHile SC2 is volatile game it's not that much volatile. Top players will have a high win rate over a long period of time.

If you take players with roughly 500 matches then Aligulac says that offline Maru 2010 - dec1 until today is is 747–453 (62.25%) in games and 350–181 (65.91%) in matches. Inno is at 883–486 (64.50%) in games and 413–187 (68.83%) in matches. Both Life and Mvp are inbetween (67 ish in matches, although both don't have that big of a sample). Classic is nearing 66 % too. These are huge sampes, almost all the players are above or nearly above 500. Parting 66 %(almost 68 % before the return). sOs 66 % with growing wr when we go back in time(as he's not that good in LotV). herO 64 %, 66 % if we limit the time to similar time frame of sOs(2016). And most of the games are vs Koreans.

offline Serral is 668–321 (67.54%) in games and 247–88 (73.73%) but sadly I don't know how to remove the foreign stats. It will be interesting where it will grow but his numbers are big because of the WCS. WCS would inflate any of the top Koreans(let's not pretend they wouldn't, there's a reason why so many top Koreans are favored against most foreigners)

Worse players(or less consistent) have worse stats, e.g. Zest at 63 % (and Zest isn't that much worse)

Edit> I must say that Inno numbers are quite impressive. Over 600 matches, WR almost 69 %. Most of that from Korea. Respect.

Edit2> Taeja is at 285–132 (68.35%), pre-2016 256–103 (71.31%). Nice.

BTW removing lower foreginers off Serral records would remove his "pre professional" games too, so don't start rambling too soon (although with significantly lowered pool each loss will have a bigger impact)

On September 10 2019 08:25 deacon.frost wrote:

Not exactly true. WHile SC2 is volatile game it's not that much volatile. Top players will have a high win rate over a long period of time.

If you take players with roughly 500 matches then Aligulac says that offline Maru 2010 - dec1 until today is is 747–453 (62.25%) in games and 350–181 (65.91%) in matches. Inno is at 883–486 (64.50%) in games and 413–187 (68.83%) in matches. Both Life and Mvp are inbetween (67 ish in matches, although both don't have that big of a sample). Classic is nearing 66 % too. These are huge sampes, almost all the players are above or nearly above 500. Parting 66 %(almost 68 % before the return). sOs 66 % with growing wr when we go back in time(as he's not that good in LotV). herO 64 %, 66 % if we limit the time to similar time frame of sOs(2016). And most of the games are vs Koreans.

offline Serral is 668–321 (67.54%) in games and 247–88 (73.73%) but sadly I don't know how to remove the foreign stats. It will be interesting where it will grow but his numbers are big because of the WCS. WCS would inflate any of the top Koreans(let's not pretend they wouldn't, there's a reason why so many top Koreans are favored against most foreigners)

Worse players(or less consistent) have worse stats, e.g. Zest at 63 % (and Zest isn't that much worse)

Edit> I must say that Inno numbers are quite impressive. Over 600 matches, WR almost 69 %. Most of that from Korea. Respect.

Edit2> Taeja is at 285–132 (68.35%), pre-2016 256–103 (71.31%). Nice.

BTW removing lower foreginers off Serral records would remove his "pre professional" games too, so don't start rambling too soon (although with significantly lowered pool each loss will have a bigger impact)

On September 10 2019 10:10 Anc13nt wrote:


if you want to check on aligulac, you can click player's match history and then for country, change it from "all" to "South Korea." If you look at most of the players you listed, their winrate against foreigners inflated their overall winrate a lot. There are actually very few players with career winrate over 60% vs Koreans offline. Inno, Classic, Life, Rain, Dark and sOs are the only ones I'm aware of (and I checked a lot of players). In fairness, among Brood War players with 60%+ winrate, there's only Effort, Jaedong, Nada, iloveoov, Stork, Bisu, Flash. But that said highest SC2 offline Korean winrates are shared by Inno and sOs at 62% while Jaedong, Bisu and FlaSh all had considerably higher winrates.

On September 10 2019 10:23 Nakajin wrote:


ByuN is the one with the best ever winrate I think: 71.20% all time with a 73% in LOTV with a match wintate above 80%, thrashing chinese online tournament was the way to go.

On September 10 2019 17:38 sneakyfox wrote:

Inno's career offline winrate against Koreans is 65.61%. I don't see how you get the numbers you present.