EPTPolt planning to play WCS after military
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Welcome back, Polt. News of Hydra? | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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i-MajiN
France113 Posts
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
On February 08 2019 05:48 Xain0n wrote: WCS is always in need of strong Terran! Welcome back, Polt. News of Hydra? Would love to see Hydra back in action. He still has one more year left I believe. It may be tougher for him to get back to pro scene. He is married and has one kid already. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
this dude was literally killing 8 armors ultra with thors while others were busy whining about it tastelesss! | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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DinosaurJones
United States1000 Posts
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siakam
Korea (South)11 Posts
On February 08 2019 07:54 Vutalisk wrote: Would love to see Hydra back in action. He still has one more year left I believe. It may be tougher for him to get back to pro scene. He is married and has one kid already. Hydra is already discharged from military service. And from what I know he got a job and have no plan of being a pro again. | ||
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gnuoy000
31 Posts
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Zerg.Zilla
Hungary5029 Posts
 Can't wait! | ||
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nrv
United States113 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
Polt is back. I casually stayed up late just to be able to watch his stream back in the start of LotV days So cool to see so many old yet returning players | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
gogo Polt~ | ||
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zokker13
Germany77 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4009 Posts
On February 09 2019 01:31 zokker13 wrote: What makes him think he's allowed to participate in WCS? cause he is an American. What do we know about ForGG btw? | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On February 09 2019 02:01 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: cause he is an American. What do we know about ForGG btw? I don't think he's an american citizen, but he had permanent residency and I think his gf (wife?) is american so it should be easier to ask for residency back if he need to. (I have no idea how long those thing last) | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4009 Posts
On February 09 2019 02:11 Nakajin wrote: I don't think he's an american citizen, but he had permanent residency and I think his gf (wife?) is american so it should be easier to ask for residency back if he need to. (I have no idea how long those thing last) yeah that was a bad attempt to joke from my part. I was referring to him being Cpt. America, but indeed his residency status should be fine. | ||
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nrv
United States113 Posts
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esReveR
United States567 Posts
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ZERATUL491
1 Post
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seopthi
391 Posts
As I am aging now (and playing piano, too) I am thinking they're right; e.g I've played SC since '98 and I think I could have what it takes to play as when I was a kid, but it's just hard to focus on it as back then. "Old" people making comeback to BW are playing well, and it's possible that Polt will have a new dose of motivation after being back from the military. | ||
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leublix
493 Posts
On April 03 2019 00:58 seopthi wrote: Tastosis once talked about the limit of age being a bit of a myth - they think the reason people get worse around that age is not physical ability but just losing motivation/dedication. A good example they used is that you can have old piano players with crazy hand dexterity. As I am aging now (and playing piano, too) I am thinking they're right; e.g I've played SC since '98 and I think I could have what it takes to play as when I was a kid, but it's just hard to focus on it as back then. "Old" people making comeback to BW are playing well, and it's possible that Polt will have a new dose of motivation after being back from the military. The BW argument is a bit moot, there are not many new players and those that are here haven't trained hard in a team house environment like the old dogs. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On April 03 2019 00:58 seopthi wrote: Tastosis once talked about the limit of age being a bit of a myth - they think the reason people get worse around that age is not physical ability but just losing motivation/dedication. A good example they used is that you can have old piano players with crazy hand dexterity. As I am aging now (and playing piano, too) I am thinking they're right; e.g I've played SC since '98 and I think I could have what it takes to play as when I was a kid, but it's just hard to focus on it as back then. "Old" people making comeback to BW are playing well, and it's possible that Polt will have a new dose of motivation after being back from the military. i'm surprised you think playing piano is physically comparable to playing SC or any sport. i play SC at diamond level, i'm 28, and i already feel my fingers tightening and slowing. piano is a fantastic talent, and i understand it places certain demands on your hands and wrists as well, but i really don't think it has the physical intensity of an esport when it comes to your hands. SC2 pros also play many many hours a day, every single day, up to 12-16 hours in extreme cases. i have total respect for piano and musicianship but it is not the same thing. not to mention it's just very very well established fact that when you're a high performance athlete the human body simply, mathematically peaks somewhere in the late 20s early 30s. this holds true in pretty much anything that involves real physical intensity. SC isn't football or basketball, but yes, hands have limits and they slow down with age. Artosis is a smart guy but he's not without ego. he himself is an aging dude who plays SC. i'm sure he enjoys thinking ridiculous things like "decline with age is a myth" because i'm sure he enjoys imagining that strategic skill is the deciding factor in this game. he's wrong on both counts. esport commentators are not sports physicians. that said, while decline is a certainty, outliers are also a certainty. there's nothing that prevents Polt from being an outlier, someone in the top 1% in terms of being able to keep up with age. but we'll have to wait and see, and that's still not the same thing as age "not mattering." look at a game where age really doesn't matter like MtG and you'll see the difference. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On April 03 2019 00:48 ZERATUL491 wrote: Most Pros retire around 26 years of age. I would love to see Polt compete in WCS, but his age (which is probably around 30) would perhaps prohibit him from having as good of a chance compared to back in the Legacy Of The Void days. If he plays WCS he only has to play vs foreigners though, he easily could become a consistent top 8 player there. | ||
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On April 03 2019 05:15 Charoisaur wrote: If he plays WCS he only has to play vs foreigners though, he easily could become a consistent top 8 player there. Yea I think it would be a very good move for him. He can definitely come back and have a ton of success in WCS as before he left. | ||
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
On April 03 2019 03:05 brickrd wrote: i'm surprised you think playing piano is physically comparable to playing SC or any sport. i play SC at diamond level, i'm 28, and i already feel my fingers tightening and slowing. piano is a fantastic talent, and i understand it places certain demands on your hands and wrists as well, but i really don't think it has the physical intensity of an esport when it comes to your hands. SC2 pros also play many many hours a day, every single day, up to 12-16 hours in extreme cases. i have total respect for piano and musicianship but it is not the same thing. not to mention it's just very very well established fact that when you're a high performance athlete the human body simply, mathematically peaks somewhere in the late 20s early 30s. this holds true in pretty much anything that involves real physical intensity. SC isn't football or basketball, but yes, hands have limits and they slow down with age. Artosis is a smart guy but he's not without ego. he himself is an aging dude who plays SC. i'm sure he enjoys thinking ridiculous things like "decline with age is a myth" because i'm sure he enjoys imagining that strategic skill is the deciding factor in this game. he's wrong on both counts. esport commentators are not sports physicians. that said, while decline is a certainty, outliers are also a certainty. there's nothing that prevents Polt from being an outlier, someone in the top 1% in terms of being able to keep up with age. but we'll have to wait and see, and that's still not the same thing as age "not mattering." look at a game where age really doesn't matter like MtG and you'll see the difference. I think you're highly underestimating the requirements a professional piano player has to match. Some of 'em are playing pieces of insane speed and have to do tons of practice to become that good. Pain issues do happen as well. But I also think that Artosis is wrong - or at leat is leaving out important factors. A piano player has to practice and to be fast and very precise but he has not to react. A SC2 pro has to be extremely fast by reacting to the smallest of actions seen of the opponent. This time of recepting an information, analyzing it and then transforming it into a bodily reaction is said to get slower with higher age. So you still can be as fast with your actions but your reaction time will be slower. But then again this is a tough call because this is something that SC2 pros optimated their brains to do for years, so it may be that this particular actions became somewhat instincts, infused into muscle memory. This is also why we see quite some "old" goal keepers in professional soccer. They have to react extremely fast but over the years they attained so much experience and reflexes that them being older than others doesn't make them worse. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On February 08 2019 05:48 Xain0n wrote: WCS is always in need of strong Terran! Welcome back, Polt. News of Hydra? Hydra made a youtube channel with a lot of SC2 and BW content. I think he has a full-time job now so I'm guessing he retired from progaming. | ||
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ordeal11
Czech Republic52 Posts
On April 03 2019 06:40 fronkschnonk wrote: I think you're highly underestimating the requirements a professional piano player has to match. Some of 'em are playing pieces of insane speed and have to do tons of practice to become that good. Pain issues do happen as well. But I also think that Artosis is wrong - or at leat is leaving out important factors. A piano player has to practice and to be fast and very precise but he has not to react. A SC2 pro has to be extremely fast by reacting to the smallest of actions seen of the opponent. This time of recepting an information, analyzing it and then transforming it into a bodily reaction is said to get slower with higher age. So you still can be as fast with your actions but your reaction time will be slower. But then again this is a tough call because this is something that SC2 pros optimated their brains to do for years, so it may be that this particular actions became somewhat instincts, infused into muscle memory. This is also why we see quite some "old" goal keepers in professional soccer. They have to react extremely fast but over the years they attained so much experience and reflexes that them being older than others doesn't make them worse. Agree, I can play for 5+ hours (300 sc2 apm +) before I start to feel my wrists. Let me play any Iron Maiden song from beggining to an end on my guitar and my wrist are burning as fck. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 03 2019 03:05 brickrd wrote: i'm surprised you think playing piano is physically comparable to playing SC or any sport. i play SC at diamond level, i'm 28, and i already feel my fingers tightening and slowing.+ Show Spoiler + piano is a fantastic talent, and i understand it places certain demands on your hands and wrists as well, but i really don't think it has the physical intensity of an esport when it comes to your hands. SC2 pros also play many many hours a day, every single day, up to 12-16 hours in extreme cases. i have total respect for piano and musicianship but it is not the same thing. not to mention it's just very very well established fact that when you're a high performance athlete the human body simply, mathematically peaks somewhere in the late 20s early 30s. this holds true in pretty much anything that involves real physical intensity. SC isn't football or basketball, but yes, hands have limits and they slow down with age. Artosis is a smart guy but he's not without ego. he himself is an aging dude who plays SC. i'm sure he enjoys thinking ridiculous things like "decline with age is a myth" because i'm sure he enjoys imagining that strategic skill is the deciding factor in this game. he's wrong on both counts. esport commentators are not sports physicians. that said, while decline is a certainty, outliers are also a certainty. there's nothing that prevents Polt from being an outlier, someone in the top 1% in terms of being able to keep up with age. but we'll have to wait and see, and that's still not the same thing as age "not mattering." look at a game where age really doesn't matter like MtG and you'll see the difference. In the meantime I'm 35 and I am faster every year. both of us proves exactly nothing. | ||
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Rob-Zero
Germany459 Posts
On April 03 2019 05:21 NinjaNight wrote: Yea I think it would be a very good move for him. He can definitely come back and have a ton of success in WCS as before he left. We´ll see. He is not the first top player coming back after a hiatus/military. Most of them sadly did not return to old accomplishments (MMA, ForGG, MC, Parting, Taeja (does he even play nowadays or did he retire again?)). The WCS competition, while not nearly as strong as korea, is strong, especially at the top. Would be exciting to see him back in old form and crush some nerds, but i doubt it will be easy for him. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
edit: can they let him play in NA WCS for old times sake again pls the foreigners have caught up anyway | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On April 03 2019 00:58 seopthi wrote: Tastosis once talked about the limit of age being a bit of a myth - they think the reason people get worse around that age is not physical ability but just losing motivation/dedication. A good example they used is that you can have old piano players with crazy hand dexterity. As I am aging now (and playing piano, too) I am thinking they're right; e.g I've played SC since '98 and I think I could have what it takes to play as when I was a kid, but it's just hard to focus on it as back then. "Old" people making comeback to BW are playing well, and it's possible that Polt will have a new dose of motivation after being back from the military. Yeah I think this is 100% the case. I don't think it's even particularly motivation, it's just other commitments. I wasn't a particularly committed or motivated player as a youngster but I could find 10 hours to grind out games. Nowadays I'm super motivated to learn and get better, but it's condensed into a few hours here or there if I'm lucky. I think ideas of what the age curve is going to look like in eSports are really, really skewed by the history of the activity. Korean BW players were always going to be young, then they'd have military service and the difficulty to get back to the top of the game would be wrongly attributed to their age IMO. If concert pianists can continue into their dotage, even high level RTS mechanics aren't as demanding as that. Roger Federer can cling around Grand Slam potential in seeming perpetuity hitting back a small yellow ball that's coming at him at 100+ mph. Reaction speeds aren't really a pertinent factor either I don't think, it's mostly learned anticipation and that's cumulated experience at work. Warcraft 3 at present it seems most of the top players are the 30+ year old veterans who were the top players way back in the day, granted SC2 is a bigger RTS so there's not a massive amount of new blood coming into that scene, but it seems there's not a massive drop off. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
As I always remind people in those discussions, Daigo Umehara is soon to be 38, and he's still winning Premiere tournaments. Tokido is the best street fighter player of the year and he's been playign for more than 20 years. Maybe you do lose some speed and dexterity, but the RTS scene underate experience a lot compared to other genre. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On April 04 2019 00:37 Noocta wrote: There's a ton of Fighting games players ( and fps players ) that are very old for Esport standard and still do well. I trully agree with Tasteless about the age factor being a myth, it's all about motivation and interest. People want to do other things in their thirties. As I always remind people in those discussions, Daigo Umehara is soon to be 38, and he's still winning Premiere tournaments. Tokido is the best street fighter player of the year and he's been playign for more than 20 years. Maybe you do lose some speed and dexterity, but the RTS scene underate experience a lot compared to other genre. Which is odd because it seems to be especially common in the RTS scene to put in insane hours of practice, so they underrate on one hand and acknowledge on the other. Honestly I'm not surprised there's such a burnout rate in the SC scene either, their practice hours seem to be excessive compared to games in other genres, in addition to that time investment there's a lot more keyboard presses to compared to most games. | ||
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fastr
France901 Posts
Another point that nobody mentioned yet is that Polt always had a more cerebral than mechanical game. He never needed 350+ apm to win tournaments because his build order and decision making were always world class. He's like the terran sOs, just a crafty, kind of slow player that just finds way to win. I think his skill set will translate much better into older age than a Maru or soO, 2 exemples of strong mechanical players but sometimes critiqued for their decision making. Whether he is successful or not, I'm just happy to see him coming back and I look forward to his future streams figuring out the game as he returns. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Starcraft is old now, it's doing well, but lets not lie to ourselves, we're past the days where every 13 years old in Korea plays starcraft in hope of being the next Boxer. The pool of future pros is smaller, making the requierements to stay competitive a lot less stressfull on current pros. Especially for broodwar right now. When Bisu comes back from his military service, there won't be 30 new insane good protoss to fight against to stay relevant. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25344 Posts
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
On the subject of age: Daigo Umehara is almost 40. Polt with his highly efficient hand actions (he had some of the lowest wasted APM back in the day) should have no problem. On the subject of Polt's possible return:  | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
https://twitter.com/Poltsc2/status/1113459212946796546?s=19 | ||
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
Like it was said FGC has plenty of 30 or even 40 years old top player, including some with kids and family (Sako for example) but I presume that the more "community" focus aspect play a role in it, their community seems to be tighter then SC2 (particularly the foreign scene) mostly cause they are used to practice together in lan. But for the reaction time or whatnot aspect of it I don't think it really matter, starting young is clearly a benefit but keeping up level of skill dosen't seem that impossible as long as you don't get back or wrist problems, it's not like you need that fast of a reaction time in Starcraft anyway (as oppose to CSGO or fighting game for example). Bottom line if Federer can be the best at running around smashing balls at 100 kh for 2 hours at 40 years old it would be silly to think that a 30 years old Starcraft player can't be at the top. | ||
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claybones
United States244 Posts
As far as his age is concerned, he was already old among pros before retiring. I don't know if two more years is going to slow him down much more. He might need time to shake off rust but if he can stick around that long, I'm sure he'll be great again. | ||
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lechatnoir
386 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On April 04 2019 03:37 brickrd wrote: everyone saying that being 40 doesn't make a difference from 20 for reaction time and dexterity is simply medically wrong and should immediately stop spreading misinformation It does make a difference, but its not as big of a deal as everyone makes it to be when someone old stops winning. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 04 2019 03:37 brickrd wrote: everyone saying that being 40 doesn't make a difference from 20 for reaction time and dexterity is simply medically wrong and should immediately stop spreading misinformation On the other hand you have the experience to not spam and use your slower reactions more wisely and update the style to follow this. Nobody is saying he will be as fast as when he was 20, but it's not that big of a deal and this is not a full athletic sport where you need the whole body. And anyway, I remember some pro players playing in very high age - e.g. Jaromir Jagr, Zdeno Chara. (edit> and if these can play NHL at 40 where you need the whole body, what's stopping Polt? ) | ||
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On April 04 2019 03:35 claybones wrote: How did I miss this when it was new? As far as his age is concerned, he was already old among pros before retiring. I don't know if two more years is going to slow him down much more. He might need time to shake off rust but if he can stick around that long, I'm sure he'll be great again. Not a problem. He's still more than young enough. Federer still has the speed/reaction timing to be at the very top of the ATP tour at 37 years old. And that is much more competitive than SC2 because it's so much more popular and has massive potential prize money winnings. Much more physical too. Polt at 30 is still a young guy. The real question is motivation because physical ability will not be a problem at all unless he runs into injury issues. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25344 Posts
The only argument I can maybe think that SC and pure reaction times could differ from other activities especially sporting is minimap awareness. Roger Federer isn’t reacting to a tennis ball coming at him, most of it is subconscious prediction based on his opponents and body shape etc. We do a lot of this stuff even outside of competitive arenas, if you’re approaching someone on the street and your trajectory will be to clash you both generally realign to avoid it. If you were both quizzed why you choose the respective side you did, chances are most times you wouldn’t know. Minimap awareness there’s not really a tell to read, something pops up out of nowhere and it’s pure reaction. Granted the response will be ingrained to a degree, say a runby in your natural you’ll know to hit that camera hotkey through experience. Below is interesting, first thing I found when I googled about reaction speed decline, actually uses SC2. Methinks me search history has maybe pushed an SC one up. It finds the peak is 24 in terms of pure reaction speed, which used to be considered veteran status in SC, and I guess still is to a degree. journals.plos.org | ||
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On April 04 2019 07:41 Wombat_NI wrote: Roger Federer isn’t reacting to a tennis ball coming at him, Are you kidding me? The guys at that level hit the ball super fast especially on serves. It takes amazing reaction timing to play tennis at that level, there's no doubt. Just try returning 130-140 mph serves... | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On April 04 2019 08:32 NinjaNight wrote: Are you kidding me? The guys at that level hit the ball super fast especially on serves. It takes amazing reaction timing to play tennis at that level, there's no doubt. Just try returning 130-140 mph serves... Well no you can’t do that, based on reaction times. Not just to recognise where the ball is going, but to align your body to return it. My point isn’t that Roger Federer isn’t an amazing talent, but he isn’t hitting those back via his reactions alone as that’s not actually possible. It’s mostly pattern recognition, figuring out instinctively based on body shape, practiced technique for returning based on that etc There’s a guy in Malcolm Gladwell’s Blink book for example who could really accurately predict if a tennis player was going to fault just based on those things and how they tossed the ball. If Federer does have an advantage it probably isn’t in his innate reactions, he might be marginally better at parsing all that information faster than others, and whatever you call that ability it doesn’t appear to measurably decline in the same way with age as pure reaction times do. | ||
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NinjaNight
428 Posts
On April 04 2019 09:14 Wombat_NI wrote: Well no you can’t do that, based on reaction times. Not just to recognise where the ball is going, but to align your body to return it. My point isn’t that Roger Federer isn’t an amazing talent, but he isn’t hitting those back via his reactions alone as that’s not actually possible. It’s mostly pattern recognition, figuring out instinctively based on body shape, practiced technique for returning based on that etc There’s a guy in Malcolm Gladwell’s Blink book for example who could really accurately predict if a tennis player was going to fault just based on those things and how they tossed the ball. If Federer does have an advantage it probably isn’t in his innate reactions, he might be marginally better at parsing all that information faster than others, and whatever you call that ability it doesn’t appear to measurably decline in the same way with age as pure reaction times do. Yes it's much more than just reaction times but my point is there is still a huge element of reaction timing in tennis at that level. I stand by the claim that being 30 is not much of a problem in physical ability in SC2. The real problem with being 30 is you probably have a lot more other things going on in your life at that age and likely don't have so much time to devote to starcraft anymore. Motivation may also be an issue as it seems the older you get the less you tend to care about video games. | ||
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skdsk
138 Posts
On April 04 2019 00:51 Noocta wrote: Yeah, burnout is the real thing. It used to be insane to keep going after a few years because of how much practice you need to keep up with everyone else, especially in a scene that used to have ALL the young kids trying to get into it. Starcraft is old now, it's doing well, but lets not lie to ourselves, we're past the days where every 13 years old in Korea plays starcraft in hope of being the next Boxer. The pool of future pros is smaller, making the requierements to stay competitive a lot less stressfull on current pros. Especially for broodwar right now. When Bisu comes back from his military service, there won't be 30 new insane good protoss to fight against to stay relevant. Age is not a problem for Esports, "the problem" is the fact as you age you get more responsibilities and you cant play 12h per day anymore. | ||
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Rob-Zero
Germany459 Posts
I´m willing to believe all you guys, but yet there is someone to come back to championship form after military. Never happened. There were other great champions that failed to even reach top foreigner level. Maybe one factor is the changing meta and patches, you don´t have to face that in Tennis, and in FGC the meta changes but I believe not on the same level as a RTS game (different build orders, counters, all ins, reactions to all of that, reactions to the reactions etc. etc.). | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25344 Posts
On April 05 2019 13:35 Rob-Zero wrote: With great age, there comes great responsibility.. I´m willing to believe all you guys, but yet there is someone to come back to championship form after military. Never happened. There were other great champions that failed to even reach top foreigner level. Maybe one factor is the changing meta and patches, you don´t have to face that in Tennis, and in FGC the meta changes but I believe not on the same level as a RTS game (different build orders, counters, all ins, reactions to all of that, reactions to the reactions etc. etc.). Moon in Warcraft 3. The scene doesn’t have the same depth as SC2 maybe, but it is still a pretty demanding RTS and he did get back to the top level. He’s older than Polt now as well. I imagine military service is seen by some as a natural breaking point in their life. Try to be the best gamer they can before it, do something else with their life after it. Especially as even now it’s hard to make better money as a player than many standard 9-5 jobs. It’s a lot of pressure when the gap between being financially comfortable and broke is putting in consistent 10 hour days and bridging the gap between being in the top 100-50 in the world at something to say, top 20+. The real famous BW players made bank from streaming when they went back, and there were still tournaments in the post-Kespa era, they could show their personality to the fans etc. Many good players who maybe didn’t have those results or fame still found comfortable niches there. People may love the games, sometimes doing something for living can kill that love and doing it as a hobby again might restore that. In the same way college is a time for many to experiment, be idiots and find themselves as it’s a natural window in which to do those kind of things. | ||
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Rob-Zero
Germany459 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25344 Posts
My prediction would him being a good foreigner level, the tier below the Serrals and Neebs etc. Still pretty damn good | ||
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