EPT5 month ago. Last GSL was his last GSL.
Forte Retires
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dummy1
420 Posts
5 month ago. Last GSL was his last GSL.
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
In 2014 Proleague Round 4 SalvatioN (Forte) won against Cure and achieved the only point in the match for Prime. He was overwhelmed by the result and, despite the team losing, he was invited to an interview after the regular MVP one. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1913 Posts
https://discordapp.com/invite/s9Bz4jR , | ||
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WeakOwl
25 Posts
"The Koreans are too good, lets cripple them and then pretend like we have closed the gap." | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On December 18 2018 23:10 WeakOwl wrote: I think the lack of support and region lock prevent players who are extremely good but not the absolute best from pursuing sc2 as a career in Korea. My prediction is the foreign scene will most likely never catch up to the Korean level and once the current top players from Korea start to retire the potential top skill level of Korean players will be much lower than it should be, giving off the illusion that foreigners have caught up. "The Koreans are too good, lets cripple them and then pretend like we have closed the gap." my prediction is that no matter how well foreigners perform there will always be people making dumb excuses for why their wins don't count and only korean wins are real wins. JET LAG!! | ||
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Topin
Peru10116 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On December 18 2018 23:19 brickrd wrote: my prediction is that no matter how well foreigners perform there will always be people making dumb excuses for why their wins don't count and only korean wins are real wins. JET LAG!! It's impossible to determine how much of foreigners catching up is due to them improving or to koreans getting worse but it would be delusional to think foreigners have it all done on their own and the korean scene is still as strong as ever. And yes - a part of what crippled the scene and closed the gap is the region-lock designed by Blizzard. Not the most important reason probably but it's definitely a factor. I wouldn't say it's a "dumb excuse" to say that the korean scene was stronger in 2013-2015. | ||
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shadow4723
87 Posts
On December 18 2018 23:10 WeakOwl wrote: I think the lack of support and region lock prevent players who are extremely good but not the absolute best from pursuing sc2 as a career in Korea. My prediction is the foreign scene will most likely never catch up to the Korean level and once the current top players from Korea start to retire the potential top skill level of Korean players will be much lower than it should be, giving off the illusion that foreigners have caught up. "The Koreans are too good, lets cripple them and then pretend like we have closed the gap." Since sc2 isnt popular in korea anymore, I don't think it's an issue that you can't make a sc2 career in Korea anymore without being one of the absolute best. Just like the community, I am sure blizzard thought about removing region lock but I think it's good idea not to do it YET. Otherwise, the foreign scene would suffer the same problem as the korean scene: there's still enough koreans to make sure that the foreigners that are not the absolute best will not be able to make a sc2 career in the world and also ppl would lose interest in sc2 again cuz its all about the koreans. To your other point: Of course ppl are better with the right support and Taeja, Zest, and others already said that they feel like they r worse but foreigners would also have more success with a Kespa-like infrastructure. So that's not an excuse for foreigners to close the gap since they just leveled the playing field | ||
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
I think he is the best argument for the need of some kind of B-Tier infrastructure in Korean SC2. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 19 2018 00:23 shadow4723 wrote: Since sc2 isnt popular in korea anymore, I don't think it's an issue that you can't make a sc2 career in Korea anymore without being one of the absolute best. Just like the community, I am sure blizzard thought about removing region lock but I think it's good idea not to do it YET. Otherwise, the foreign scene would suffer the same problem as the korean scene: there's still enough koreans to make sure that the foreigners that are not the absolute best will not be able to make a sc2 career in the world and also ppl would lose interest in sc2 again cuz its all about the koreans. To your other point: Of course ppl are better with the right support and Taeja, Zest, and others already said that they feel like they r worse but foreigners would also have more success with a Kespa-like infrastructure. So that's not an excuse for foreigners to close the gap since they just leveled the playing field There's no valid way of how to be a foreign pro. Let's save the scene by creating the region lock and adjusting the scene(e.g. the recent challenger changes) There's no valid way of how to be a Korean pro. Let's kill the scene by not adjusting the region lock nor adjusting the competition. This 2-way of thinking is pathetic. | ||
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shadow4723
87 Posts
On December 19 2018 01:46 deacon.frost wrote: There's no valid way of how to be a foreign pro. Let's save the scene by creating the region lock and adjusting the scene(e.g. the recent challenger changes) There's no valid way of how to be a Korean pro. Let's kill the scene by not adjusting the region lock nor adjusting the competition. This 2-way of thinking is pathetic. that sounds pathetic but if you consider the bigger picture of keeping the sc2 scene valid as a whole than this picture makes blizzard look better again: the question is sc2 or no sc2 esports | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On December 19 2018 02:28 shadow4723 wrote: that sounds pathetic but if you consider the bigger picture of keeping the sc2 scene valid as a whole than this picture makes blizzard look better again: the question is sc2 or no sc2 esports SC2 scene as an e-sport is invalid term as it won't survive without Blizzard paying the money. ANyway, uplifting the region lock wouldn't have helped Forte so the discussion here about this is pointless. It may have helped keeping foreigners from Korea but we don't know this and it wasn't implemented anyway, so who knows. Let's keep this off this thread, it's pointless here anyway. GL HF, Forte. | ||
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lechatnoir
392 Posts
GL forte. | ||
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DSK
England1110 Posts
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Dave4
494 Posts
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Gemini_19
United States1258 Posts
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Kurao
215 Posts
On December 18 2018 23:10 WeakOwl wrote: I think the lack of support and region lock prevent players who are extremely good but not the absolute best from pursuing sc2 as a career in Korea. My prediction is the foreign scene will most likely never catch up to the Korean level and once the current top players from Korea start to retire the potential top skill level of Korean players will be much lower than it should be, giving off the illusion that foreigners have caught up. "The Koreans are too good, lets cripple them and then pretend like we have closed the gap." This pretty much summarizes it. No teamhouses besides Jin Air since 2016, and like TY once said on the ONPOONG show, SC2 for them is just a bounty hunt for prize-money. While it's great that Blizzard and Afreeca (among others) are investing to the game, it seems like there is no "real drive" for improvement, like there once was. I guess that's the nature of the scene now though, so no point in me beating a dead horse at this point. 100% agree with your statement. | ||
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic627 Posts
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On a serious note, I wonder with Mike Morhaime gone and seeing what happened with Heroes of the storm how long Blizzard will support the SC2 e-sports scene. | ||
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JoFar
31 Posts
On December 19 2018 00:18 Charoisaur wrote: I wouldn't say it's a "dumb excuse" to say that the korean scene was stronger in 2013-2015. Is it, though? I mean, the korean scene is smaller now, that's for sure. Especially a lot of the 2nd and 3rd tier players are gone or have it at least a lot harder now to make a living out of starcraft 2. (in other words, they are now at the same level as most of the foreigner players ...) So regarding the width of the spread of pro players in Korea ... that is weaker now, okay. But is that really the only point to meassure the strength of a scene? The top players from Korea ... i don't think they really got weaker in the last years. Maru, Innovation, Zest, Stats, TY, Rogue, Dark ... and your can add some more names in that list for sure ... i don't think it's true saying they are all weaker now then 3 or 4 years ago. Of course every player has his ups and downs ... but overall the level of play in sc2 nowadays is much higher then for example in the HotS Days, and that is not just because the top of the foreigners are closing the gap to korea quite a bit (this especially because of Serral) but also because the top korean players also have gotten stronger. And always the blaming of the region lock ... Code A or TeamLeague wasn't cancelled in Korea because of the region lock, it was cancelled because sc2 in korea just never was that big of a success and didn't have enough viewers. Making the foreign scene stronger was the only way to keep the scene alive, and right now the Increase in Viewership shows Blizzard has made the right call there. | ||
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