EPTPlus they have changed the ladder ends to nov 21. Which could mean we do not get the patch until the 22th.
4.7.0 Patch Notes & Final Balance Changes - Page 6
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Plus they have changed the ladder ends to nov 21. Which could mean we do not get the patch until the 22th. | ||
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LHK
204 Posts
edit: Yes, someone definitely goofed on that "nov 21" thing. The new season is now live as of 12:49 central us time. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
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CadoEverto
Russian Federation5 Posts
-1 armor for the thor is pretty bad, double medivac-thor haras become significantly weaker. Bunkers with a Neosteel frame have never been used, still, new upgrade Neosteel armor is the same as Structure Armor both cost and research time. And there is no real need to use high capacity bunkers in the late game. The only possibility to make a worthy upgrade "Neosteel armor" is to reduce its research time to allow terrans to use it while defense at the early stages of the game. High capacity bunker with an increased armor could be an interesting choice to deal with all-ins, but 100 sec production time is too high. It should be taken into consideration reduced time of research like 57 (like for Hi-sec auto-tracking). Swarm hosts are imba and should be nerfed. To easy to play with them but to hard to play against. No slight hydra nerf is also bad both for terrans and protoss. It also should be considered once again. Also, I would pay attention to the fact that a lot of Terran spells are interrupted by damage (as for ghosts) or by abduct (for BCs). It should be a good choice to remove interruption of snipeshots to deal with broodlords and vipers more effective and work with BCs to make them more effective and/or give immunity for adbuct. I do not understand why there are no significant changes for TvP, where toss could make just a-click unit composition and win (zealots-archons-immortals) or even mass zealots with stalkers could be a good limit to deal with Terran pushes within mid-game. Maybe pro players like Maru could deal with it. But even them used to create proxy meta as its the only choice to take some advantage to have a chance to win a protoss. As well as widely used 2 bases all-ins from terrans say that it too hard to deal with protoss. And the last short comment of DT's change: Are you serious? The unit which been buffed from time to time get bigger buff? Cool. Imba DT's become more op. | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
On November 21 2018 07:24 DomeGetta wrote: Not sure if this has been asked and answered already..but is there any way to manually put burrow and unburrow back on one key? but it doesn't seem to work for swarm hosts. I really hate that burrow/unburrow change, so unnecessary. Change is bad. | ||
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Valyrian
41 Posts
On November 21 2018 15:38 CadoEverto wrote: Also, I would pay attention to the fact that a lot of Terran spells are interrupted by damage (as for ghosts) or by abduct (for BCs). It should be a good choice to remove interruption of snipeshots to deal with broodlords and vipers more effective and work with BCs to make them more effective and/or give immunity for adbuct. I have thought for the longest time that massive units should be immune to abduct. It doesn't make a lot of sense anyway and usually looks ridiculous, and it would also prevent cheap snipes like against a Mothership. To make this not too much of a nerf, Tempests should lose the massive tag, so there is still some interaction between Vipers and Airtoss armies. With this patch Tempests have been moved away from the siege/capital ship status so the tag isn't that fitting anymore in any case. | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada469 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2655 Posts
On November 22 2018 00:09 Ryu3600 wrote: I think for the most part the new cyclone is better but in TvP the fact that it doesn't exist as a nonaddon unit takes away a lot of our early game options as well as making terrans incredibly vulnerable to early game attacks. I also think by the time the new cyclone does come it dies too quickly. Perhaps making its hp at least somewhere been 140-150 may be a decent idea. Cause now we are just stuck opening standard or just proxying a reaper which puts us back to where we were the last patch where standard games against toss put us at a disadvantage. I have an ok success with them in TvP but what I've seen on streams do shows that they are on the weak side in TvP, mostly due to how fast a protoss can get stalkers other and tech. I think they should lower the build time of cyclones, it would help with what they are supposed to do in the early game, besides helping mech deal with quick tech transitions. The cyclone is supposed to be a jack of all trades. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
On November 21 2018 17:32 virpi wrote: https://youtu.be/CXYys_scrn4 but it doesn't seem to work for swarm hosts. I really hate that burrow/unburrow change, so unnecessary. Change is bad. Appreciate the reply. Does not work for me at all..guy goes a but nuts during the explanation and contradicts himself so might be doing it wrong lol. thx tho hopefully i figure it out | ||
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Hvvacha
82 Posts
with yamato since test map, sometimes it's getting cancelled for some reason. | ||
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Drfilip
Sweden590 Posts
On November 22 2018 01:38 Hvvacha wrote: at 1h39m15s there's a bug with yamato since test map, sometimes it's getting cancelled for some reason. Did it change to only work while seeing the target? It looks like the target went out of vision and the yamato got cancelled. If that is intended, that would be a notable change. | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada469 Posts
On November 22 2018 00:18 Lexender wrote: I have an ok success with them in TvP but what I've seen on streams do shows that they are on the weak side in TvP, mostly due to how fast a protoss can get stalkers other and tech. I think they should lower the build time of cyclones, it would help with what they are supposed to do in the early game, besides helping mech deal with quick tech transitions. The cyclone is supposed to be a jack of all trades. it needs more HP or it needs to be a reactor unit | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On November 22 2018 05:53 Ryu3600 wrote: it needs more HP or it needs to be a reactor unit No it does not and no, terrans do not need early game/proxy variety, cyclone got changed exactly because of that. It was official blizzard statement. | ||
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Hvvacha
82 Posts
On November 22 2018 05:39 Drfilip wrote: Did it change to only work while seeing the target? It looks like the target went out of vision and the yamato got cancelled. If that is intended, that would be a notable change. nvm, 2 yamato got cancelled because they was targeting same tempest that was killed by mines. | ||
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megamanx32
16 Posts
Before change cyclone for me was jack of all trades defensive unit, especially vs protoss where number of early options viable for them is too big and too versatile to count. Right now, lower HP and tech lab requirement, make it to be easily overwhelmed by stalkers, which it used to counter. Massing them is really not viable, due to low HP. I tried using them to pick heavy hitters like carriers, but didn't found much success with that either. So far it seems like dead unit. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On November 22 2018 16:43 megamanx32 wrote: As terran, the most noticable change is new Cyclone. I have played several games myself, and watched few streamers, and still can't find the role for it. Before change cyclone for me was jack of all trades defensive unit, especially vs protoss where number of early options viable for them is too big and too versatile to count. Right now, lower HP and tech lab requirement, make it to be easily overwhelmed by stalkers, which it used to counter. Massing them is really not viable, due to low HP. I tried using them to pick heavy hitters like carriers, but didn't found much success with that either. So far it seems like dead unit. I have used them successfully against proxy void ray/shield batteries but apart from that, they seem useless. They are simply too fragile to be used outside of early game. | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada469 Posts
On November 22 2018 15:38 insitelol wrote: No it does not and no, terrans do not need early game/proxy variety, cyclone got changed exactly because of that. It was official blizzard statement. I mean what do you suggest we make vs Protoss who go for 2gate now lol the unit is very squishy, it works GREAT in TvZ and its okay defensively (If the toss doesn't cheese you) vs Warp prisms etc and it has some use vs Terran but the HP is probably needed the unit is very squishy 2 tank shots can kill them (Even in splash range). Protoss is very powerful rn the whole reason we have been proxying is that we kind of needed to. If you actually go onto TY's stream he wins 1 in 5 maybe 1 in 6 TvP's. The presence of the old cyclone being an option from the reactor was what made Terran's safe from certain Protoss cheeses. Now in most scenarios, it almost makes more sense to just opt for a tank and only get a cyclone if you've got a successful opening into 3-1-1/1-3-1 or 3CC | ||
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megamanx32
16 Posts
The more I play this patch, I am less than satisfied with actual results. I have to note that i play mech, in all three matchups. I have already stated my view on cyclone, he was my staple unit against protoss. Now he is empty slot. Now the second is was more interesting. Thor was changed in order to be slayer of other giants. On paper, these changes have made this so, one on one, thor better handles carriers and brodlords. But when I actually play he seems a lot weaker. I badly lost against broodlord composition that usually win against. That one armor was really helpful when dealing with zerglings and broodlings, and made thor more durable so he can snipe BL. So while in theory he should be giant slayer, he is now neither, a unit without identity. The only mech buff that i find any meaningful is widow mine permanent clock with drilling claws, but I have yet to find composition that exploits that. | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
The only mech buff that i find any meaningful is widow mine permanent clock with drilling claws, but I have yet to find composition that exploits that. Bio mine  | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
In general they are also more useful again because you can scatter a few around the map in key areas like to block or harass far expos, since they cloak back it is harder for the opponent to find them and you can move the WMs around. I really like the WM change, it is a nice middle ground now. But for Cyclone? My issue from trying it is it comes out too slow to be used in the early game, and it is not good enough of a unit to waste a Factory Tech Lab's worth of production on. It seems decent against stargate proxy all-ins, and that's it. Like maybe, you could make 1 or 2 Cyclones to help defend against early game WP drop play, or such, instead of building turrets, and that's it...? Cyclones have too low HP and too low initial lock down range so anything after early game they just die when you try to lock down high value or high HP units. And them not being reactorable sucks for how fragile and weak they are overall. The 3 supply for them also hurts because it is a bit high and takes too much supply for mech for them to be an appealing choice. To think it was considered they'd be 4 supply... The one other use I can imagine them for, (and was one of the primary goals of the change), is that they can be used mech TvP to help counter an air transition. Or at least you don't auto die if you weren't prepared with 4 reactored stargates with vikings. Making ~6 Cyclones in this situation seems it can be useful vs a surprise 2-4 Carriers but they can still be targetted down by the Carriers and storm and immortals are effective against them... Before they used to be fine vs immortals but now they lose hard to them, and immortals are important in late game to support airtoss vs mech. Overall even when talking about dealing with a sudden airtoss transition vs mech, I think I would prefer to just make the new buffed Thors with those factory tech labs, rather than Cyclones which can be targetted down too easily and die to storm/immortals much faster. If anyone has ideas or experience getting them to fulfill some interesting roles, please do share! | ||
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