EPTCase in point, Rogue and aLive are playing right now in the Ballistix Brawl. At 11 minutes into the game, we have Rogue on 6 bases with complete map control, covering 2/3 to 3/4 of the map in creep, and already on Hive tech building out Broodlords and Ultralisks. I find many of the games nowadays don't have much of the early and mid game anymore due to the worker change, thus putting the game more into the late game territory. Late game is nice and all because it is taxing on a player's ability to multitask, micro, and macro, but at the same time, we seem to have lost some of the early and mid game strategies I personally enjoyed as a player and viewer.
Is The Game Too Fast?
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
Case in point, Rogue and aLive are playing right now in the Ballistix Brawl. At 11 minutes into the game, we have Rogue on 6 bases with complete map control, covering 2/3 to 3/4 of the map in creep, and already on Hive tech building out Broodlords and Ultralisks. I find many of the games nowadays don't have much of the early and mid game anymore due to the worker change, thus putting the game more into the late game territory. Late game is nice and all because it is taxing on a player's ability to multitask, micro, and macro, but at the same time, we seem to have lost some of the early and mid game strategies I personally enjoyed as a player and viewer. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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geokilla
Canada8224 Posts
On October 10 2018 12:51 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Blizzard should revert the clock change so it goes back to display Blizzard time. If it displayed 16 minutes rather than 11 minutes there would be a lot less complaining. Lol I don't think the clock time has anything to do with it. It's just the pace of the game increased dramatically. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On October 10 2018 12:54 geokilla wrote: Lol I don't think the clock time has anything to do with it. It's just the pace of the game increased dramatically. Eh, I was only kinda joking. The 12 worker change only accelerated the game in of itself by like 90 seconds, and if you count the fact that it disincentives early aggression maybe by 2-3 minutes. Consider this (slightly cherry-picked) game from HotS: At 11 minutes (which is in Blizzard time is roughly 15:30) both players are maxed out, INno has a huge mech army, and creep covers DRG's corner of Deadwing which is probably the equivalent of 3/4 of a normal map. I do consider the two minutes that we lost to the 12 worker change to be a significant loss, since those minutes had very different characteristics from the rest of the game, but the pace of the game hasn't changed as dramatically as the clock makes it seem and not solely due to the 12 worker change. | ||
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halomonian
Brazil255 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 10 2018 13:19 halomonian wrote: The thing is, its not too fast. It is too definitive. In broodwar, it takes ages to finish off an opponent when you both go for macro games. In SC2, once the pendulum swings one way, its not coming back so easily, since you have perfect control and at the top level its rare for players to commit fuckups that would add up to costing someone the game. My simple balance idea would be to introduce the miss % from low to high ground. I would also like to see how sc2 behaves with limited unit selection and building, since managing a ton of stuff and having it go wrong constantly is one of the major comeback mechanics in BW for example Well, it is too fast too  Oracles, medevacs with boosts, muta regen, phoenix speed buffs(to counter muta/medevacs speed buffs). Some of these were actually slightly touched(e.g. Oracle is still fast, but doesn't 2-shot SCVs anymore)). And nowadays you have more ways how to end up battles even faster(lurkers, disruptors).While it may not affect hugely top level lower level players may feel overwhelmed. I am a diamond player and I guarantee you that even HotS was way too fast for my taste and LotV is even faster. I don't like it at all. | ||
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dummy1
420 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
the early game that is pretty much removed was something unique to starcraft 2 and starcraft 1, but i didn't find myself missing it after i put in enough effort into learning the new pacing. pretty much, the early game was spamming and was merely ritualistic. what's really missing from the game now is some well crafted cheese. even then i don't miss it. it made ZvZ and nearly all those builds a coinflip. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
And instead of getting this right once and for all, we get major balance updates annually (despite the devs stating otherwise) to keep the game "fresh" and players interested. | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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fluidrone
France1478 Posts
however i like this speed. There have been more and more people asking for sc2 "slower" so that speed skill is not a requirement in the adn of the game and i completely agree with that need/reality check. But sc2 cannot be several games, if you are talking about a ladder experience. You can play the same game on slow and enjoy it on customs (if you managed to find people who want to play it like that that is...) and the market for that is hugely untapped. i personally would play both but i like the "no time" part so i would invest more time in that version or "appreciate it more". Life is not "this" and "nothing else", far from it.. someone could start a thing and then it would explode into a new ladder / game being prominent too*. A slower rts (just like sc2 or something completely different but with the same rts in it) could become big, just a lack of community happenstance. So (tldr) if i have to choose i say NO, don't reduce speed now for everyone, but YES do make up your own ladder with sc2 on slow <3 both will be great to play then! | ||
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SCHRECKEN111
13 Posts
) and I manage without a problem with the current speed. I find the game more exciting now than it was in the time of Hots. If I can have 160 average apm in my age you can reach this level also - and it allows me to play platin league - even if I can play 5-6 matches a week because of the work. So cheer up and practice | ||
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seom
South Africa491 Posts
it sounds like op is referring to the overall flow of the game (early + mid game being played out too quickly) rather than apm. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
1) change the speed from faster to fast. 2) remove 2 patch mineral nodes at each base. Each building cost reduced about 75 minerals and each drone/probe/scv about 25. I prefer this one. | ||
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SCHRECKEN111
13 Posts
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On October 10 2018 20:27 seom wrote: to avoid confusion it is important to differentiate between the mechanical game speed required for multitasking, controlling units etc and the game speed referred to in the op. it sounds like op is referring to the overall flow of the game (early + mid game being played out too quickly) rather than apm. Important and good point you've made just there, although one could say there is some correlation between the two, especially when you consider that the economy ramps up way faster, which translates to the player having to do more multitasking early on and thus demands an improved mechanical skill. | ||
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Creager
Germany1889 Posts
On October 10 2018 20:59 SCHRECKEN111 wrote: and what if fun means fast game which gives you adrenaline ? If you prefer slow games, play civilisation. I know it`s hard and challenging game but If you achieve sth in SC2 you feel that this is an achievement .I remember when I went to platin few months ago - It really boost my self-confidence - it improved my self-image - i felt better in real life exactly because it`s fast and demanding and not for everyone - it`s exclusive game for smart people who like competition and excitement. Well, it's not like SC2 was a walk in the park during WOL or HOTS, sure, less units and abilities to use, but don't get the wrong impression that the game was 'easy' and chill back then. Still I prefer the old versions of the game over the actual one and had more fun playing them. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16633 Posts
On October 10 2018 20:27 seom wrote: to avoid confusion it is important to differentiate between the mechanical game speed required for multitasking, controlling units etc and the game speed referred to in the op. it sounds like op is referring to the overall flow of the game (early + mid game being played out too quickly) rather than apm. this is an excellent point. and i like the overall flow of the game. in general i like the flow of C&C games better than the flow of a Brood War game. i think SC2 has more of a "fast and fluid" feel to it like C&C. On October 10 2018 20:21 SCHRECKEN111 wrote: Dude, i`m 39 (probably one of the oldest sc2 player ) and I manage without a problem with the current speed. I find the game more exciting now than it was in the time of Hots. If I can have 160 average apm in my age you can reach this level also - and it allows me to play platin league - even if I can play 5-6 matches a week because of the work. So cheer up and practice i play 2v2s with a woman who is 48. her most advanced video game experience before taking on SC2 was Intellivision Sea Battle. She showed me the game and it is surprising the RTS elements in a game made around 1980. Any how, she is in GOLD in 1v1s. So she is a middle of the pack 1v1 player. if a 48 year old woman with zero modern video game experience can deal with the pace of play i think i can too. Also, the pace/flow of play in LotV is more fun than HotS or WoL. | ||
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