As the 2017 season neared its end, it felt like we had it all figured out. With StarCraft II’s eighth birthday on the horizon, things were making more sense than ever. INnoVation had won yet another GSL Code S in the final season of the year. Dark and Stats's rivalry at the top of LotV was as heated as ever, while soO had lost yet again (and again). Neeb had risen to become the undisputed best foreigner—what other fate could have awaited the only foreigner to win a StarCraft II title on Korean soil? We knew what to expect headed into the new year. The picture was crystal clear.
But over the last nine months, everything has changed. 2018 has been a year for breaking records and making history. Snow still covered the slopes of PyeongChang when Scarlett became the second foreigner to win a championship in Korea. Spring had barely arrived when Rogue won IEM Katowice, unifying the WCS and IEM World Championships. Barely a week has passed since Serral won WCS Montreal, completing a WCS Circuit sweep.
Amid the turmoil, there's a clear leader who's risen to the top of this new world order. Maru, the prodigy of 2010, is finally fulfilling his destiny. A few months ago, he tied Nestea’s seven-year-old record by thrashing Zest and winning consecutive GSL Code S championships. It was a Herculean feat, one that had seemingly passed from the realm of the improbable into the impossible. StarCraft II is more evolved, mature, and defined than it was in 2011. Where Nestea forged a path through untamed wilds, Maru was beset on all sides by warriors whose skills had been honed by years of constant combat.
We've seen dominance before—Nestea, Mvp, Zest, and others captured and held the throne for months on end, earning our adulation and praise. And for all those rosy memories, we’ve never seen anything like Maru’s current reign. Maru hasn’t just been winning titles—he’s been utterly destroying the competition. Not only has he been out-muscling opponents with raw mechanics as in the past, but he's been at the forefront of the meta time and time again. Be it mass-Raven play against Zerg or vexing proxies in TvP, Maru has dictated how StarCraft II is played in 2018.
It’s difficult to fully wrap our heads around the sheer magnitude of Maru’s accomplishments. Four years ago we gawked as soO reached the finals of every season of GSL Code S. It was well deserved, for we had never seen such consistency in the world's most difficult StarCraft II competition. The thought of someone retaining such a high level for an entire year was, frankly, unfathomable. We thought we’d never see it again.
Maru hasn’t just equaled soO’s mark—he’s trampled all over it. Merely reaching three finals seems like child's play compared to what Maru is poised to accomplish. Winning back to back GSL finals is undoubtedly a tremendous feat, but capturing a third straight Code S championship would be beyond historic. It wouldn't just place him in the greatest-of-all-time discussion—all such discussions would cease henceforth.
Outside of GSL, Maru swatted down Serral and toppled Dark (the best Zerg in the world at the time) to win $200,000 at WESG. He even served as a beacon of pride for his home nation, winning the gold medal at the Asian Games after Korea’s bitter defeat in the League of Legends finals.
Even when Maru lost, his presence has been massive. When Rogue won the IEM World Championship, it was Maru who gave him his toughest test. When Stats reached the finals of GSL vs. The World, it was his victory over Maru that catapulted him to the finals. When Serral beat Maru in a best-of-one during the GSL vs. The World team-match, it became one of the most important badges of validation the Circuit king had earned all year.
The title of best player in the world is elusive and fleeting. Balance patches, metas and a host of other factors create a constant game of musical chairs. A player might separate himself briefly from his peers, only to be thrown back into the cycle before the end of the next tournament. Maru is defying convention with his iron grip on the scene. He hasn’t yielded an inch of ground after claiming all of Korean StarCraft II as his own.
*****
Maru never lacked talent. He’s always been brash and stylish. His mechanics alone made his playstyle impossible to imitate, and he earned OSL and SSL titles on the back of unrelenting-yet-precise aggression. A terror in the eyes of his peers, Maru has long been admired by the fans. If you wanted excitement, you had to look no further than Maru. Even if more patient, calculated players like Mvp and INnoVation enjoyed greater success, Maru was the player you wanted to play like.
For all his natural ability, pre-2018 Maru was only scratching at the surface of his potential. 'Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard' is a maxim repeated ad nauseum in traditional sports. As cliche as the saying might be, there’s truth to it. In this case, whether by slothfulness, injury, or other factors we’ll never be aware of, Maru never reached the heights of which he was capable of during Heart of the Swarm. 2016 and 2017 were massive disappointments, but it’s quite possible that this relatively fallow period is what sparked his current incendiary form.
Nowadays, Maru practices harder than ever, at least according to his teammate Rogue. Whereas he once struggled to comprehend, let alone harness his immense potential in years past, the full breadth of his talent is now at his fingertips. He once showed flashes of brilliance, but now he shines with the intensity of a supernova.
He dictates the pace in the early game, putting his opponent on the back foot from the get go. He’s predatory in the mid game, seizing every advantage, widening the gap and oftentimes dealing the killing blow. Should his opponent hang on until the later stages, Maru dissects them with surgical efficiency.
His unwitting opponents dance to the tune of a song only Maru can hear. They move at his direction, submitting to the melody, unaware of their role in the proceedings. By the time the game ends in defeat they are utterly befuddled, futilely grasping to understand how they met such a fate. Disbelief and disappointment are etched on their features, but Maru isn’t surprised. Everything went exactly as planned.
The amazing truth is that no one, not even Maru, knows how far he might go. We’ve never seen anyone like this—someone who keeps improving mechanically, who keeps evolving as a strategist, who remains ever a step ahead of the meta. Maru enters his third GSL final not as an aspirant or a challenger. He enters not as a contender or a mere champion. He enters as a tyrant collecting his due spoils. He enters as a hero ascending into legend. Should Maru win his third consecutive Code S title he will have accomplished something no progamer before him has ever done. It is a feat that is unlikely to be matched and virtually impossible to surpass. And, just as we fondly reminisce about how certain periods belonged to players such as Nestea, Mvp, Zest, or INnoVation, there will be a day where we think back and remember how the era of StarCraft II belonged to Maru.
TY: Black Mirror
by Wax
In the Harry Potter books, the protagonist happens upon a magic mirror that shows the beholder their heart's true desire. One wonders what StarCraft II progamers might see reflected in such a fantastical artifact. For soO, would it be himself hoisting the Code S trophy above his head? Perhaps TaeJa would see himself with wrists that are whole. Most WCS Circuit players might long for a world where Serral has been carted off to the Finnish military. I like to imagine that if TY were to look into that mirror, he'd see Maru.
TY was introduced to us as THE prodigy among prodigies. He won his debutProleague match at just thirteen years of age, nearly two years younger than previous wunderkind Flash. TY's ludicrously fast hands were apparent from the start, and the history of mechanically gifted Terrans portended that great things lay ahead for the youngster. The expectations for TY were set impossibly high, and they turned out to be exactly that: impossible. Boxer, Nada, iloveoov—that kind of company ended up being far, far out of reach. TY spent much of his Brood War career mired in mediocrity, with barely any individual league results of note and a Proleague career which could be describe as "fine, I guess."
Which isn't to say TY ended up being a disappointment—far from it. Solid starter status in Proleague isn't easily attained, and TY maintained it for most of his career. He managed to amass over $500,000 in prize money winnings, and after ten years of perseverence, he finally won dual championships at WESG and IEM Katowice in 2017. That's probably an upper 90th percentile outcome for TY, and upper 99th percentile outcome for all the kids who try to be progamers. And still, it doesn't feel like quite enough. Not when we've seen what could have been.
Much like TY, we first met Maru as a thirteen-year-old prodigy winning in his debut match. Though Maru needed a couple of years to mature, he was still just fifteen when he won his first championship: a Royal Road run in the storied OnGameNet Starleague. Even before 2018, most fans would have felt that Maru had lived up to his potential. He had won two major titles, was the ace of a Proleague winning team, and was bound to go down in history as one of StarCraft II's all-time great progamers.
TY made up ground on Maru by winning his dual championships in 2017, which at the time, also represented an unprecedented achievement in pro-StarCraft. In a game so notorious for devouring youth and exhausting passion, it was unheard of to achieve such a delayed career peak. In 2018, Maru one-upped TY in the biggest way possible, putting together the most dominant stretch of StarCraft II history in year eight of his career. If TY's old-man heroics had taken him from good to great, then Maru started making the push from great to greatest.
How fitting it is that TY now stands in Maru's way as the final obstacle to StarCraft II immortality. TY already faced his alternate reality doppleganger once before at a crucial crossroad. For TY, the WESG 2016 finals was a chance to validate his career and finally win a major championship. For Maru, it was an opportunity to recover from the lengthy "slump" (by Maru's standards, anyway) that afflicted him in Legacy of the Void. TY ended up triumphing then in a seven-game series, kicking off his late-career surge that continues to this date. And perhaps, unwittingly, he helped provide the impetus for Maru's 2018 run as well. That WESG final was the closest call in Maru's 2016-2017 title drought. Present-day Maru seems to have learned from that experience, and is determined to never taste that kind of bitterness again.
If immortality is on the line for Maru, then what are the stakes for TY? So great is the hype of Maru's historic run that we've almost forgotten the 'ordinary' glory a GSL Code S title bestows upon every other player in StarCraft II. It's the most storied, difficult-to-win, and prestigious championship in all of StarCraft II. TY's year-ten rise to championship-caliber player is already a minor miracle, but it wouldn't feel quite complete without a Code S title. Of course, there's also the matter of BlizzCon, where TY has unfinished business after being knocked out in the top four last year. Already, fans are looking ahead to BlizzCon 2018 as the site for a definitive showdown between Maru and Serral for the title of best-in-the-world. What better way to announce that it will be a three-way race than by taking out Maru in Korea? Denying someone else's dream usually doesn't make it one's own, but for TY it might lay the first stone.
Head to Head and Prediction
by Wax
Let's start with some good ol' Aligulac.com statistics.
It should be noted that Maru got two 'free' 3-0 series against Demi and Strike from the Asian Games. Regardless, there's not much separating these two in terms of raw tournament stats, and it will suffice to interpret these numbers to mean 'they're both really damn good at TvT.' In recent matches, there wasn't much to be gleaned from Maru's 3-0 stomp of GuMiho in the quarterfinals. Maru ran circles around GuMiho with sheer mechanics (a proxy win was thrown in for good measure), but GuMiho has never been known for his finesse. I'd be surprised if TY gets styled on in that fashion.
In head to head stats, TY and Maru are tied 5-5 in all-time BO3+ series while Maru holds a slight, 19-18 edge on map score. Maru and TY faced off just once this year, with TY defeating Maru 2-1 in the group stages (Ro24) of IEM Katowice (VOD). I'm sure you'll be absolutely SHOCKED to hear that Maru tried to proxy TY twice in the series, splitting those games 1-1 and losing in the one macro-ish game.
It might be simplistic to look at the series this way, but it seems likely that this grand finals will also come down to the success and failure of early game shenanigans. TY is not averse to cheesy tactics himself, and it's worth noting that three out of seven games during their WESG finals match involved some kind of proxy or hidden building (VOD (1), (2)). TY has been known for years as a skilled build-smith, while the 2018 version of Maru has been a meta-defining genius. Even if it's not necessarily due to cheese, the lengthy amount of preparation time given in Code S means that this series will probably be even weirder than usual.
I've long maintained that TvT is the best mirror in StarCraft II, but unfortunately, I don't think this is the series where we'll see a macro game that dethrones INnoVAtion vs TaeJa. Things tend to go awfully wrong for one side when both players are trying to out-clever the other, and we're probably in for a lot of strange, landslide games. While I think TY will prove to be a very tricky opponent for Maru, how could I predict against the dominance Maru and the Jin Air brain-trust have shown us this year?
Even I am not a fan of Maru, must admit that he is he is the dominant player this year, even if we close our eyes for the statistics this year. TY is out of his top form yet and all odds are against him. I haven't seen some solid super late macro game by TY in the recent past it was the absolute patern in his play. But this time TY has all the comfort to play in a psychological aspect. In case Zest would make a miracle, Zest could be much worse opponent to TY because of bad memories in offline important matches. TvT is his territory, his place at Blizzcon is secured, all the expectations for total bonjwa lie in Maru's lap and TY is a bit overshadowed. It is also possible for both players to perform some short final with rushes. In this situations Maru possesses one of the most excellent scouts and the one who knows the maps better has some good chances and in this situation - TY is always the good map explorer rather Maru possesses more star sence's Nestea kind of in the past, because he got some natural instinct, rather TY got the natural intelligence. Two really brilliant players for our time no doubt, and one of them total favorite in my heart and the other - always the villain. GoGo TY!
I've long maintained that TvT is the best mirror in StarCraft II
Used to feel the same but then LotV and the cyclone happened (also the cancerous tank drop in HotS)
Since HotS introduced Medivac Boost, it's just not been the same. TvT was my favourite matchup even though I'm Protoss.
Outside of GSL, Maru swatted down Serral.
I feel like this line is somewhat deceitful, since it's supposed to add to Maru's accomplishments, but in reality INSIDE of GSL Serral beat Maru and the games that are in talking isn't exactly Serral getting swatted down.
Can't really decide who i'm rooting for to be the champ of the terran brotherhood. Both deserve it. I guess TY winning GSL and Maru winning Blizzcon would be my dream scenario. No matter what I hope for 7 maps with a lot of shenanigans, a few macro wars and lightning-fast micro!
Shocking that the fact Maru is in the only Korean team house left is continually overlooked in these posts.
The rise of the team house is generally considered the primary conduit for the Korean-Foreigner gap that built up in the Broodwar/SC2 scenes. Nowhere else was replicating a situation where the player simply has more hours to train, more eyes to analyse their play, more brains to come up with strategies, and more teammates to practice against their opponents.
I'm not going to say Maru is bad, he is clearly an excellent player but how can this be continually ignored?
Of course he has a massive upper edge over every other player in the scene right now. In the Korean tournament which is specifically designed to be over a long period (giving time for coaches and teammates to help practice and strategise against his opponents), Maru simply has a very distinct upper hand now which you can't really ignore while saying that he is having the most dominant run in SC2.
Meanwhile, Serral has taken 4 tournament in a row (Maru only has 2), in a tournament with more rounds and players (so more opportunities to falter) and over a much shorter time (so fatigue comes into play). Moreover, Serral won the H2H at GSLvWorld when the stakes were actually evened.
There's no doubt that Maru is currently the strongest Korean, and Serral is the strongest World player. The difference is Serral is doing it without help or handicaps.
Not to bash the article, but the editor. There were an unusually high amount of errors.
I like the inclusion of he statistics for the players with the extra information of which version that was active and the note of Demi and Strike. Please sum up more statistics and facts in these articles! Too bad that a falsehood slipped in. Rogue wasn't first to hold the titles of WCS and IEM, not even the first player of Jin Air Green Wings. sOs did that 4 years earlier, gaining the nickname $o$.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
He wasn't banned and his tag isn't Mvp so of course he's not the greatest, he could win every GSL for 3 years straight and people would still be saying these guys are better.
I feel like this line is somewhat deceitful, since it's supposed to add to Maru's accomplishments, but in reality INSIDE of GSL Serral beat Maru and the games that are in talking isn't exactly Serral getting swatted down.
Are you brand new to SC2? You must be! Serral has NEVER defeated Maru in GSL, in fact Serral has NEVER PLAYED in GSL.
It blows my mind how many people on this forum think that Serral has won a GSL - on one hand I'm happy that SC2 has a resurgence of fans, on the other hand it's frustrating that they the new ones are so loud and confident despite not even knowing what GSL is!
Serral got absolutely DOMINATED and embarassed at WESG - go watch those games. They weren't even remotely close - not a single one of them. "Swatted down" is a way of putting what happened at WESG that makes Serral look more respectable.
Anyway, I am predicted a 4 - 0 for Maru, though TY is one of my favorite players so I hope I'm wrong. If we don't see domination from Maru I'm sure we will see the TvT meta shift in this series with some new ideas so should be fun to watch.
I've long maintained that TvT is the best mirror in StarCraft II
Used to feel the same but then LotV and the cyclone happened (also the cancerous tank drop in HotS)
Since HotS introduced Medivac Boost, it's just not been the same. TvT was my favourite matchup even though I'm Protoss.
Outside of GSL, Maru swatted down Serral.
I feel like this line is somewhat deceitful, since it's supposed to add to Maru's accomplishments, but in reality INSIDE of GSL Serral beat Maru and the games that are in talking isn't exactly Serral getting swatted down.
Are you brand new to SC2? You must be! Serral has NEVER defeated Maru in GSL, in fact Serral has NEVER PLAYED in GSL.
It blows my mind how many people on this forum think that Serral has won a GSL - on one hand I'm happy that SC2 has a resurgence of fans, on the other hand it's frustrating that they the new ones are so loud and confident despite not even knowing what GSL is!
Serral got absolutely DOMINATED and embarassed at WESG - go watch those games. They weren't even remotely close - not a single one of them. "Swatted down" is a way of putting what happened at WESG that makes Serral look more respectable.
Anyway, I am predicted a 4 - 0 for Maru, though TY is one of my favorite players so I hope I'm wrong. If we don't see domination from Maru I'm sure we will see the TvT meta shift in this series with some new ideas so should be fun to watch.
It really looked like Maru was trying to embarass Serral, making 10 nukes at a time while doing a 13 rax bio transition. He stomped Reynor quick and clean but decided to play around with Serral for some reason.
On September 14 2018 21:52 Dave4 wrote: Shocking that the fact Maru is in the only Korean team house left is continually overlooked in these posts.
The rise of the team house is generally considered the primary conduit for the Korean-Foreigner gap that built up in the Broodwar/SC2 scenes. Nowhere else was replicating a situation where the player simply has more hours to train, more eyes to analyse their play, more brains to come up with strategies, and more teammates to practice against their opponents.
I'm not going to say Maru is bad, he is clearly an excellent player but how can this be continually ignored?
Of course he has a massive upper edge over every other player in the scene right now. In the Korean tournament which is specifically designed to be over a long period (giving time for coaches and teammates to help practice and strategise against his opponents), Maru simply has a very distinct upper hand now which you can't really ignore while saying that he is having the most dominant run in SC2.
Meanwhile, Serral has taken 4 tournament in a row (Maru only has 2), in a tournament with more rounds and players (so more opportunities to falter) and over a much shorter time (so fatigue comes into play). Moreover, Serral won the H2H at GSLvWorld when the stakes were actually evened.
There's no doubt that Maru is currently the strongest Korean, and Serral is the strongest World player. The difference is Serral is doing it without help or handicaps.
TY will take this 4-2.
This is hilarious.. completely ignore the level of play of the field of competition. Serral has taken 4 tournaments in a row and outside of gsl vs the world faced no one outside of neeb who would even be competitive in code s. Compare apples and oranges more lol.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
He wasn't banned and his tag isn't Mvp so of course he's not the greatest, he could win every GSL for 3 years straight and people would still be saying these guys are better.
Yeah but Mvp was literally dead and still managed to win.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
He wasn't banned and his tag isn't Mvp so of course he's not the greatest, he could win every GSL for 3 years straight and people would still be saying these guys are better.
Yeah but Mvp was literally dead and still managed to win.
i'm so hyped for this shit! i have badly missed gomtvt days and have warm memories watching it. now the level of play has advanced to such an insane degree its gonna be sick!!!! why does the OP think we won't get another innovation vs taeja on newkirk?????
i'm ok if its a one sided stomp though, sc2 needs a dominant player. a lot of times games history looked very coin flippy and rock paper scissor, but there were players that transcended that. i hope maru becomes the god that we need.
but yah sad about how badly gumiho got rekt, and sad that with maru in the way soo will never win a finals until he elevates his own play to a similar level
On September 14 2018 22:08 MockHamill wrote: I hope Meru 4-0 TY so that Serral can 4-0 Maru at Blizzcon.
Maru is way better than Serral. Go watch WESG and you'll see why.
The only reason Maru lost in GSL vs. World was because he didn't take any of the games seriously, and I don't blame him.
The only reason I haven't won GSL is I don't take my games seriously!
Not a great argument. We'll see in Blizzcon. If Maru loses, I'm sure it'll be because he didn't take the thought of $200k seriously.
Mentality approaching a game and its psychology have very well known and understood effects on one's performance. I'm sure Maru didn't think of not talking the BO1 with Serral seriously, but there is no doubt in my mind that he wasn't as laser focused as he would be during a BOX at Blizzcon or GSL. No doubt. Also, a BO1 means absolutely nothing.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
True, he hasn't found a cure for cancer yet or won a Nobel price.
Those that keep bringing up comparison with Serral and how it’s debatable if Serral is better than Maru, please, there is no debate. Not even close. Just wait until BlizzCon and we will all find out.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it.
Will it be fair if I say that MVP is the GOAT of WoL, Life is of HotS, and Inno is of LotV. We need another expansion ASAP. Or there are going to be patch GOATs inc.
On September 15 2018 03:08 outscar wrote: Will it be fair if I say that MVP is the GOAT of WoL, Life is of HotS, and Inno is of LotV. We need another expansion ASAP. Or there are going to be patch GOATs inc.
Extremely inaccurate to call INnoVation the greatest player of Legacy of the Void with 4 premier and many periods when he didn't even make ro32 or ro16, let alone top8. He just didnt't leave much of an impact.
I think the best player of LotV is either Stats or Maru, both of them sporting multiple starleague titles, a weekender title on top of that and other big accomplishments on top of that (mutlipel top 4 finishes for Stats and GSL runner-up/winner and proleague record for Maru).
Stats in the end wins in my heart is as an incredibly consistent player who has shown championship-caliber player for 2 years now. Even if he doesn't always win, he looks a real contender, with his lost series being very close (2:3 vs Solar in SSL ro4, 2:3 Zest, 3:4 vs Serral now) and he truly looks like a complete player with full knowledge of all 3 Protoss matchups. In fact, out of Stats' 18 top 4 finishes in premier tournaments, 16 are in LotV. This man is as close to the perfect LotV Protoss player as it can get. His defence, offence, macro and micro always look on point. It's like he was created to play this particular expansion. While Maru and Rogue might peak higher than Stats, the latter's sheer consistency in such a competitive environement is a true testimony to his overall skills at the game.
On September 15 2018 03:08 outscar wrote: Will it be fair if I say that MVP is the GOAT of WoL, Life is of HotS, and Inno is of LotV. We need another expansion ASAP. Or there are going to be patch GOATs inc.
Extremely inaccurate to call INnoVation the greatest player of Legacy of the Void with only 3 premier titles and many periods when he didn't even make ro32 or ro16, let alone top8
I think the best player of LotV is either Stats or Maru, both of them sporting multiple starleague titles, a weekender title on top of that and other big accomplishments on top of that (mutlipel top 4 finishes for Stats and GSL runner-up/winner and proleague record for Maru).
Stats in the end wins in my heart is as an incredibly consistent player who has shown championship-caliber player for 2 years now. Even if he doesn't always win, he looks a real contender, with his lost series being very close (2:3 vs Solar in SSL ro4, 2:3 Zest, 3:4 vs Serral now) and he truly looks like a complete player with full knowledge of all 3 Protoss matchups. In fact, out of Stats' 18 top 4 finishes in premier tournaments, 16 are in LotV. This man is as close to the perfect LotV Protoss player as it can get. His defence, offence, macro and micro always look on point. It's like he was created to play this particular expansion. While Maru and Rogue might peak higher than Stats, the latter's sheer consistency in such a competitive environement is a true testimony to his overall skills at the game.
Inno has 4 premier titles but I agree with Stats being the best LotV player. Inno, Rogue and Maru are close behind him imo.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it.
Inno is not likable and fully embodies faceless korean, no personality at all. strictly mechanical play although i guess now he mixes in all ins. he is definitely in the disucssion for GOAT though, at least in HOTS
there were a few things though that stand out against him being GOAT. for sure at least the second GOAT (although I think soo has that title on lock down).
he was abusing hellbats being broken initially to win TvT in HOTS, which was correctly pointed out by ppl who got ban warned back then, only for those people to be completely vindicated when inno's TvT went into the shitter immediately after the hellbat nerf. since then he has consistently been sniped by TvT specialists like alive and gumiho and the like.
also his loss to soulkey in the GSL finals also exposed him. he was up 3-0 and got reverse swept and in the final game tilted and sent a shit ton of medivacs to do a drop when there were mutas flying all around. the mutas ate the medivacs for lunch
i think there is a strong case for life as GOAT in HOTS
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it.
Inno is not likable and fully embodies faceless korean, no personality at all. strictly mechanical play although i guess now he mixes in all ins. he is definitely in the disucssion for GOAT though, at least in HOTS
there were a few things though that stand out against him being GOAT. for sure at least the second GOAT (although I think soo has that title on lock down).
he was abusing hellbats being broken initially to win TvT in HOTS, which was correctly pointed out by ppl who got ban warned back then, only for those people to be completely vindicated when inno's TvT went into the shitter immediately after the hellbat nerf. since then he has consistently been sniped by TvT specialists like alive and gumiho and the like.
also his loss to soulkey in the GSL finals also exposed him. he was up 3-0 and got reverse swept and in the final game tilted and sent a shit ton of medivacs to do a drop when there were mutas flying all around. the mutas ate the medivacs for lunch
i think there is a strong case for life as GOAT in HOTS
See this is what I mean. People try everything to diminish his achievements because they don't like him. Can I remind you that Mvp had the majority of his success during GomTvT and Life had his initial string of success on the back of BL/Infestor? But that never gets brought up because people don't have a problem with them being the GOAT - only Inno gets treated differently.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it.
Inno is not likable and fully embodies faceless korean, no personality at all. strictly mechanical play although i guess now he mixes in all ins. he is definitely in the disucssion for GOAT though, at least in HOTS
there were a few things though that stand out against him being GOAT. for sure at least the second GOAT (although I think soo has that title on lock down).
he was abusing hellbats being broken initially to win TvT in HOTS, which was correctly pointed out by ppl who got ban warned back then, only for those people to be completely vindicated when inno's TvT went into the shitter immediately after the hellbat nerf. since then he has consistently been sniped by TvT specialists like alive and gumiho and the like.
also his loss to soulkey in the GSL finals also exposed him. he was up 3-0 and got reverse swept and in the final game tilted and sent a shit ton of medivacs to do a drop when there were mutas flying all around. the mutas ate the medivacs for lunch
i think there is a strong case for life as GOAT in HOTS
See this is what I mean. People try everything to diminish his achievements because they don't like him. Can I remind you that Mvp had the majority of his success during GomTvT and Life had his initial string of success on the back of BL/Infestor? But that never gets brought up because people don't have a problem with them being the GOAT - only Inno gets treated differently.
I have no issue with downplaying Life or Mvp (in fact I'll do it myself). But they both get credit for winning while working against obvious balance issues. Even if they enjoyed success while the meta was in their favour.
INno most certainly does not. The biggest argument against him is that he doesn't find success outside of good patches.
I can't believe people can say that Maru still wouldn't be the GOAT if he wins this and Blizzcon. Yes, other players would still have a similar amount of total trophies or maybe even more trophies but that doesn't matter. Winning multiple tournaments in a row is SO much more impressive than winning one-two tournaments a year for a few years or something like that. That can happen due to a favorable patch/bracket/opponents being in bad form etc. Winning multiple in a row is just absolutely unheard of and requires a consistency that no player has had before in SC2. There's a reason it's never happened before and it's because it's far far harder than winning them spread out. And it's not like this is the first year Maru has ever won something. He's won an OSL and SSL which are both just has hard as GSL. He's also one of the most consistent players over the life of his career. Maru has basically never dropped out of GSL since it started and he had the best record in proleague. He is definitely the goat if he wins this and blizzcon which is a pretty big if but anyone who denies it just doesn't understand how much harder it is to win multiple in a row compared to one tournament every now and then like the greats of the past did.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it.
Inno is not likable and fully embodies faceless korean, no personality at all. strictly mechanical play although i guess now he mixes in all ins. he is definitely in the disucssion for GOAT though, at least in HOTS
there were a few things though that stand out against him being GOAT. for sure at least the second GOAT (although I think soo has that title on lock down).
he was abusing hellbats being broken initially to win TvT in HOTS, which was correctly pointed out by ppl who got ban warned back then, only for those people to be completely vindicated when inno's TvT went into the shitter immediately after the hellbat nerf. since then he has consistently been sniped by TvT specialists like alive and gumiho and the like.
also his loss to soulkey in the GSL finals also exposed him. he was up 3-0 and got reverse swept and in the final game tilted and sent a shit ton of medivacs to do a drop when there were mutas flying all around. the mutas ate the medivacs for lunch
i think there is a strong case for life as GOAT in HOTS
See this is what I mean. People try everything to diminish his achievements because they don't like him. Can I remind you that Mvp had the majority of his success during GomTvT and Life had his initial string of success on the back of BL/Infestor? But that never gets brought up because people don't have a problem with them being the GOAT - only Inno gets treated differently.
I have no issue with downplaying Life or Mvp (in fact I'll do it myself). But they both get credit for winning while working against obvious balance issues. Even if they enjoyed success while the meta was in their favour.
INno most certainly does not. The biggest argument against him is that he doesn't find success outside of good patches.
I guess it depends what makes a GOAT, you know? Some people try to go by tournament wins, but there's a lot more that can be considered. Innovation might be the best at exploiting favorable metas, and when he can do that, he really does shine. That's a skill too. But I can understand people finding MVP more impressive for winning with the odds stacked against him. The thing is that this is all subjective, of course.
Bringing it back to Maru, if he wins this GSL plus BlizzCon, the dominance factor is really impressive. He has won against all his stiffest competition and often looked so completely dominant that it was embarrassing for the players he was up against. This is part of his greatness factor if we're including the subjective stuff.
It's kinda like nestea: by raw tournament wins, he might not be meaningfully in the discussion, but he was previously the only player to ever win back to back GSLs, and HE WON A WHOLE GSL WITHOUT DROPPING A SINGLE MAP. So I think it's understandable that he's counted as one of the greats (even if, of course, almost nobody would count him as GOAT).
Maru dominating GSL for the whole year, and doing it so hard against almost all of his potential rivals, would really be a mind boggling feat that adds more to the discussion than just the number of wins. He's got more work to do before we can all basically agree he's the greatest ever, but he's getting close to at least belonging in the conversation.
On September 15 2018 05:15 Waxangel wrote: This talk reminds me a bit of Flash at four titles, where ppl got caught up about him needing five, even though his sheer dominance was unprecedented.
Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh)
On September 15 2018 05:15 Waxangel wrote: This talk reminds me a bit of Flash at four titles, where ppl got caught up about him needing five, even though his sheer dominance was unprecedented.
Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh)
We were close to having a serious Maru-Dark rivalry and a Maru-Rogue rivalry but of them fell short :/
On September 15 2018 03:08 outscar wrote: Will it be fair if I say that MVP is the GOAT of WoL, Life is of HotS, and Inno is of LotV. We need another expansion ASAP. Or there are going to be patch GOATs inc.
Extremely inaccurate to call INnoVation the greatest player of Legacy of the Void with only 3 premier titles and many periods when he didn't even make ro32 or ro16, let alone top8
I think the best player of LotV is either Stats or Maru, both of them sporting multiple starleague titles, a weekender title on top of that and other big accomplishments on top of that (mutlipel top 4 finishes for Stats and GSL runner-up/winner and proleague record for Maru).
Stats in the end wins in my heart is as an incredibly consistent player who has shown championship-caliber player for 2 years now. Even if he doesn't always win, he looks a real contender, with his lost series being very close (2:3 vs Solar in SSL ro4, 2:3 Zest, 3:4 vs Serral now) and he truly looks like a complete player with full knowledge of all 3 Protoss matchups. In fact, out of Stats' 18 top 4 finishes in premier tournaments, 16 are in LotV. This man is as close to the perfect LotV Protoss player as it can get. His defence, offence, macro and micro always look on point. It's like he was created to play this particular expansion. While Maru and Rogue might peak higher than Stats, the latter's sheer consistency in such a competitive environement is a true testimony to his overall skills at the game.
Inno has 4 premier titles but I agree with Stats being the best LotV player. Inno, Rogue and Maru are close behind him imo.
I was already hyped for this finals, and this article made the hype even bigger! Amazing analysis of both Maru's dominance and TY as the challenger, the "could've-been" child-prodigy veteran.
Rooting for my guy TY here but I think Maru takes it, can't really bet against him.
On September 15 2018 05:15 Waxangel wrote: This talk reminds me a bit of Flash at four titles, where ppl got caught up about him needing five, even though his sheer dominance was unprecedented.
Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh)
We were close to having a serious Maru-Dark rivalry and a Maru-Rogue rivalry but of them fell short :/
On September 15 2018 05:15 Waxangel wrote: This talk reminds me a bit of Flash at four titles, where ppl got caught up about him needing five, even though his sheer dominance was unprecedented.
Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh)
We were close to having a serious Maru-Dark rivalry and a Maru-Rogue rivalry but of them fell short :/
Life was supposed to be his rival
Well Life dug his own grave due to the greed he had for money. which gg'ed his career, but anyways, i was not a life fan from the beginning. he did deserve what he got himself into, which is good for the community, cant have toxic players competing in this game.
There must be reason why Maru wanted to avoid TY in ro16 nomination and said TY is the hardest opponent to play in the world. But I would still say Maru has bit more chance to win.
Yeah, Stats is the most consistent player of this expansion no doubt. Because of his 2nd place finishes he's kinda underrated. After comes Dark. But hey, what you can do, ppl remember champions, not runner ups.
And again, people are comparing GSL and WCS Circuit. Just like 2016 and 2017.
In GSL you have to compete with 20 S-class players
In WCS Circuit you only have to compete with few S-class players. And yes there are more than 5 Koreans who can do exactly same as Serral domination in WCS Circuit this year.
Results of top foreigners in GSL 2018
SpeCial: eliminated in qualifier and in ro32
Elazer: eliminated in ro32
Scarlett: ro8 at first season, but eliminated in ro32 next season, and then eliminated in qualifier in s3
Lambo: eliminated in qualifier
Reynor: eliminated in ro16
Neeb: semi-final
rest: all got eliminated either in qualifier or ro32
funny thing is that even Neeb got eliminated in qualifier last year after he has won Kespa Cup in Korea. And dominating WCS Circuit by himself. So, I honestly wouldn't be surprised that much even if Serral get eliminated in GSL qualifier at his first try.(if he gets hard opponents, it really can happen)
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it.
Inno is not likable and fully embodies faceless korean, no personality at all. strictly mechanical play although i guess now he mixes in all ins. he is definitely in the disucssion for GOAT though, at least in HOTS
there were a few things though that stand out against him being GOAT. for sure at least the second GOAT (although I think soo has that title on lock down).
he was abusing hellbats being broken initially to win TvT in HOTS, which was correctly pointed out by ppl who got ban warned back then, only for those people to be completely vindicated when inno's TvT went into the shitter immediately after the hellbat nerf. since then he has consistently been sniped by TvT specialists like alive and gumiho and the like.
also his loss to soulkey in the GSL finals also exposed him. he was up 3-0 and got reverse swept and in the final game tilted and sent a shit ton of medivacs to do a drop when there were mutas flying all around. the mutas ate the medivacs for lunch
i think there is a strong case for life as GOAT in HOTS
See this is what I mean. People try everything to diminish his achievements because they don't like him. Can I remind you that Mvp had the majority of his success during GomTvT and Life had his initial string of success on the back of BL/Infestor? But that never gets brought up because people don't have a problem with them being the GOAT - only Inno gets treated differently.
well mvp dominated in gom tvt with mechanics, and then when his wrists were broken he continued to win through sheer genius. heck he even took some games off inno iirc.
life won via gglord winfestor, but after the nerf, unlike the other patch zergs who fell off (cough cough foreigner zergs who were able to "beat" korean terrans before). zergs who abused that disgusting comp like roro/sniper faded into irrelevance afterward. life kept dominating afterward.
but yeah i get what you're saying. inno just isn't a very likable personality. however i don't see him having that same kind of brilliance and resilience mvp had after his wrists got ruined. in fact, his tvt going to shit after hellbat nerf is like the anti mvp story. no resilience there. that's why mvp is beloved and inno is not. maru on the other hand, very adorable character and great story. started in first gsl as a kid and was awful, now is a god.
On September 15 2018 06:41 RandomOnlyTheHumanLf wrote: In GSL you have to compete with 20 S-class players
It's pretty hard finding 20 S-Class players in GSL Season 3, that are, without a doubt, above serrals level. But serral should not be the point here. I think it's kind of stupid to compare the weekend-format of a WCS with the format of a GSL, where you can practice for days up to a certain point for ONE matchup with at least 4 maps, while you play at least 17 maps in 72 hours for winning a WCS.
I am not saying that one format has a higher skill ceiling than the other, altough i think that koreans could struggle with a regular weekend-format, i'm just saying that this is far from being comparable.
€dit: @ topic: I really hope, TY wins, but the voice in me knows it's gonna be maru. Hoping for a good time
It's pretty hard finding 20 S-Class players in GSL Season 3, that are, without a doubt, above serrals level. But serral should not be the point here. I think it's kind of stupid to compare the weekend-format of a WCS with the format of a GSL, where you can practice for days up to a certain point for ONE matchup with at least 4 maps, while you play at least 17 maps in 72 hours for winning a WCS.
I am not saying that one format has a higher skill ceiling than the other, altough i think that koreans could struggle with a regular weekend-format, i'm just saying that this is far from being comparable.
If you ask me about current Serral level, I wouldn't dare to point 20 GSL players. But compared to rest of top foreigners? Absolutely yes.
And you can simply compare WCS and GSL with a unique term called 'region lock'.
And you are true about one format setting like WCS Circuit is more hard to predict and rely on real basic skills.
But there were already 2 Big Premier tournament with huge prices happened this year with IEM World championship and WESG. And did Koreans struggle? They just dominated it.
On September 15 2018 05:15 Waxangel wrote: This talk reminds me a bit of Flash at four titles, where ppl got caught up about him needing five, even though his sheer dominance was unprecedented.
Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh)
totally inconsistent tho
if you think Flash should be rewarded for beating Jaedong, then Jaedong should be rewarded for having to play Flash (and beating him once!)
But according to idiotic bonjwa-theory, Savior (4 titles) is a bonjwa and Jaedong is not because Jaedong (5 titles) wasn't 'dominant' enough. This is the generally accepted 'fan-logic' back when bonjwa-theory was at its peak of popularity in 2008~2009.
Anyway this whole line of thought is generally idiotic. Korean fans harping on about bonjwa-theory after 2010-ish—partly due to Flash and partly I hope because they realized bonjwa shit is fucking stupid. It's an awful relic that's stuck around in the foreign scene for some god-forsaken reason.
On September 14 2018 21:52 Dave4 wrote: Shocking that the fact Maru is in the only Korean team house left is continually overlooked in these posts.
The rise of the team house is generally considered the primary conduit for the Korean-Foreigner gap that built up in the Broodwar/SC2 scenes. Nowhere else was replicating a situation where the player simply has more hours to train, more eyes to analyse their play, more brains to come up with strategies, and more teammates to practice against their opponents.
I'm not going to say Maru is bad, he is clearly an excellent player but how can this be continually ignored?
Of course he has a massive upper edge over every other player in the scene right now. In the Korean tournament which is specifically designed to be over a long period (giving time for coaches and teammates to help practice and strategise against his opponents), Maru simply has a very distinct upper hand now which you can't really ignore while saying that he is having the most dominant run in SC2.
Meanwhile, Serral has taken 4 tournament in a row (Maru only has 2), in a tournament with more rounds and players (so more opportunities to falter) and over a much shorter time (so fatigue comes into play). Moreover, Serral won the H2H at GSLvWorld when the stakes were actually evened.
There's no doubt that Maru is currently the strongest Korean, and Serral is the strongest World player. The difference is Serral is doing it without help or handicaps.
TY will take this 4-2.
I am not saying Serral is bad or anything, he is truly the biggest threat to koreans from a non korean. But if you say something like "Serral has taken 4 tournament in a row (Maru only has 2)" you are just being delusional. Apart form Serral and Neeb, anybody who plays in WCS would stuggle to get to Ro8 in Code S.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it.
I am not even getting into playstyle, strategy, mindgames etc. Lets break things down between Inno and Maru in terms of titles.
Inno has 4 GSL titles out of which one is GSL vs the World, so lets say 3 code S titles in a span of what 5 years? Maru is competing to get the same number of code S titles in ONE year alone. That does not diminish Inno's titles for sure.
In a game as cutthroat as starcraft, there's a reason winning back to back code is considered one of the greatest feats. Inno never looked as on top, as cheese proof, meta defining as Maru has alone looked this year already.
For example between Mvp and MMA, Mvp had the dominance in Wings while MMA ahs had the consistentcy getting championships in each expansion etc. but MMA is not even considered close to Mvp in terms of overall greatness. Same logic applies between Maru and Innovation.
On September 15 2018 05:15 Waxangel wrote: This talk reminds me a bit of Flash at four titles, where ppl got caught up about him needing five, even though his sheer dominance was unprecedented.
Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh)
totally inconsistent tho
if you think Flash should be rewarded for beating Jaedong, then Jaedong should be rewarded for having to play Flash (and beating him once!)
But according to idiotic bonjwa-theory, Savior (4 titles) is a bonjwa and Jaedong is not because Jaedong (5 titles) wasn't 'dominant' enough. This is the generally accepted 'fan-logic' back when bonjwa-theory was at its peak of popularity in 2008~2009.
Anyway this whole line of thought is generally idiotic. Korean fans harping on about bonjwa-theory after 2010-ish—partly due to Flash and partly I hope because they realized bonjwa shit is fucking stupid. It's an awful relic that's stuck around in the foreign scene for some god-forsaken reason.
I am just saying it's funny people didn't believe in flash being a bonjwa or whatever term one wants to use for a really dominant player when he had to beat JD consistently who was such a beast himself. Maru on the other hand plays a different player every final and none of them are really comparable to JD here.
Personally i don't care too much how we describe this era of dominance, it certainly exists and it's awesome to watch (especially as a maru fan ofc), i think people just wanna use the term bonjwa because it's already a starcraft term and it also sounds good phonetically ^^
On September 15 2018 05:15 Waxangel wrote: This talk reminds me a bit of Flash at four titles, where ppl got caught up about him needing five, even though his sheer dominance was unprecedented.
Which is funny considering that Flash had to beat Jaedong to get there while maru has no real rival (which might hurt him tbh)
totally inconsistent tho
if you think Flash should be rewarded for beating Jaedong, then Jaedong should be rewarded for having to play Flash (and beating him once!)
But according to idiotic bonjwa-theory, Savior (4 titles) is a bonjwa and Jaedong is not because Jaedong (5 titles) wasn't 'dominant' enough. This is the generally accepted 'fan-logic' back when bonjwa-theory was at its peak of popularity in 2008~2009.
Anyway this whole line of thought is generally idiotic. Korean fans harping on about bonjwa-theory after 2010-ish—partly due to Flash and partly I hope because they realized bonjwa shit is fucking stupid. It's an awful relic that's stuck around in the foreign scene for some god-forsaken reason.
I am just saying it's funny people didn't believe in flash being a bonjwa or whatever term one wants to use for a really dominant player when he had to beat JD consistently who was such a beast himself. Maru on the other hand plays a different player every final and none of them are really comparable to JD here.
Personally i don't care too much how we describe this era of dominance, it certainly exists and it's awesome to watch (especially as a maru fan ofc), i think people just wanna use the term bonjwa because it's already a starcraft term and it also sounds good phonetically ^^
Completely agreed both as a Maru fan and a fan of Starcraft
If you read the book The Starcraft Bible theres a whole beautiful chapter dedicated to the concept of a rivalry, how it influences and changes the meta, the rest of the competition and so on. The whole chapter is based on Flash vs Jaedong and their destinies colliding.
On September 15 2018 09:16 Morbidius wrote: Fun fact: Innovation never made 2 consecutive round of 8's in the GSL, the very tournament Maru is about to sweep for the third time.
He did in 2012-2013, but he didn't win any of them.
In the years he's actually won and dominated (2014,2015,2017), he's never made ro8 twice in a row.
Maru however has made ro8/4 a disgusting number of times, often not only consecutively but as the only terran in them.
It's pretty hard finding 20 S-Class players in GSL Season 3, that are, without a doubt, above serrals level. But serral should not be the point here. I think it's kind of stupid to compare the weekend-format of a WCS with the format of a GSL, where you can practice for days up to a certain point for ONE matchup with at least 4 maps, while you play at least 17 maps in 72 hours for winning a WCS.
I am not saying that one format has a higher skill ceiling than the other, altough i think that koreans could struggle with a regular weekend-format, i'm just saying that this is far from being comparable.
If you ask me about current Serral level, I wouldn't dare to point 20 GSL players. But compared to rest of top foreigners? Absolutely yes.
And you can simply compare WCS and GSL with a unique term called 'region lock'.
And you are true about one format setting like WCS Circuit is more hard to predict and rely on real basic skills.
But there were already 2 Big Premier tournament with huge prices happened this year with IEM World championship and WESG. And did Koreans struggle? They just dominated it.
My eye was drawn to Maru back in his Prime days. My good buddy who plays and watches SC2 with me would always say things like, "Why do you like Maru so much? What is it about him that makes him good, because he's not really winning much?" My buddy never played the Terran race, so maybe he just didn't "get it" when he watched Maru, I'm not sure...
Now after all these years of me never shutting up about Maru, this friend of mine is beginning to understand what it was I saw in Maru all those years ago - and I'm very very content seeing his true potential finally realized.
Because I've always believed in Maru's sheer skill and ability, I would love for him to take the GSL 3-peat and then Blizzcon, just to cement himself as not only the guy with the most overwhelmingly consistent period of dominance this game has ever seen, but to become the one true GOAT (yes, I know there are those of you who insist on this going to MVP or INno, but let's be real now folks, with the level of play this game is at after all these years, only the best remain in Korea - and look how badly Maru is humiliating them at this point).
As others have pointed out, having a few more trophies under your belt over the long-term kind of means squat compared to what it is Maru is very well about to accomplish in this year alone... and that's without mentioning his previous Starleague wins and proleague record etc etc.
Of course I know we all won't agree, but I find it extremely difficult to believe that if Maru takes this GSL + Blizzcon we will EVER see this kind of run ever again.
Serral is the only foreigner same level as top Koreans. And all foreigners except Serral did not even get a chance to make ro4.
And GSL vs World was much less important tournament in prize wise, only was about $94000 prize pool while both IEM world championship and WESG were about $400000 each. And that's why I said 'Big' premier tournaments
On September 15 2018 09:16 Morbidius wrote: Fun fact: Innovation never made 2 consecutive round of 8's in the GSL, the very tournament Maru is about to sweep for the third time.
He did in 2012-2013, but he didn't win any of them.
In the years he's actually won and dominated (2014,2015,2017), he's never made ro8 twice in a row.
Maru however has made ro8/4 a disgusting number of times, often not only consecutively but as the only terran in them.
He made consecutive ro8 from GSL 2014 Season 3 to 2015 Season 1...
The Inno hate is really getting out of hand..........
I would feel sad to not see Maru win all 3 GSL this year and then go against Serral in the Blizzcon final (who also sweep the circuit). This storyline development is just so hyped.
On September 14 2018 22:24 Lgnarrow wrote: "Maru is one series away from winning a third consecutive Code S championship and being crowned the greatest SC2 player of all time."
C'mon, even if he wins this and blizzcon he will not be the greatest.
Agreed but for some reason lots of people don't want to accept Inno as the Goat. I don't know if they find him too boring or his playstyle isn't flashy enough or what but for some reason those people try everything to disregard his achievements and put other less accomplished players above him. It's no surprise that they use this opportunity of Maru having a hot streak to advertise him as the new Goat and hope the recency bias is strong enough that people fall for it.
Inno is not likable and fully embodies faceless korean, no personality at all. strictly mechanical play although i guess now he mixes in all ins. he is definitely in the disucssion for GOAT though, at least in HOTS
there were a few things though that stand out against him being GOAT. for sure at least the second GOAT (although I think soo has that title on lock down).
he was abusing hellbats being broken initially to win TvT in HOTS, which was correctly pointed out by ppl who got ban warned back then, only for those people to be completely vindicated when inno's TvT went into the shitter immediately after the hellbat nerf. since then he has consistently been sniped by TvT specialists like alive and gumiho and the like.
also his loss to soulkey in the GSL finals also exposed him. he was up 3-0 and got reverse swept and in the final game tilted and sent a shit ton of medivacs to do a drop when there were mutas flying all around. the mutas ate the medivacs for lunch
i think there is a strong case for life as GOAT in HOTS
See this is what I mean. People try everything to diminish his achievements because they don't like him. Can I remind you that Mvp had the majority of his success during GomTvT and Life had his initial string of success on the back of BL/Infestor? But that never gets brought up because people don't have a problem with them being the GOAT - only Inno gets treated differently.
well mvp dominated in gom tvt with mechanics, and then when his wrists were broken he continued to win through sheer genius. heck he even took some games off inno iirc.
life won via gglord winfestor, but after the nerf, unlike the other patch zergs who fell off (cough cough foreigner zergs who were able to "beat" korean terrans before). zergs who abused that disgusting comp like roro/sniper faded into irrelevance afterward. life kept dominating afterward.
but yeah i get what you're saying. inno just isn't a very likable personality. however i don't see him having that same kind of brilliance and resilience mvp had after his wrists got ruined. in fact, his tvt going to shit after hellbat nerf is like the anti mvp story. no resilience there. that's why mvp is beloved and inno is not. maru on the other hand, very adorable character and great story. started in first gsl as a kid and was awful, now is a god.
Life is the only Zerg I really like during SH era. He’s the only Zerg that refuse to abuse that build unless he was really behind in a game, which he will pull out SH to catch up. Kinda like Maru refusing to build vikings vs colossus or ghosts v HT. With healthy dose of cheese & aggressions mixed in, what is there not to like? If only life didn’t killed his own career...
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2018/gsls3bracket1_5.png)
INnoVation had won yet another GSL Code S in the final season of the year. 
(also the cancerous tank drop in HotS)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/ZInMiyR.jpg)
that feeling when nobody is even metioning 
