EPTWho would agree that patches are not balancing or fixing the game but instead changing it so that it would not be the same game after the patch ?
Why Starcraft 2 is being patched all the time ?
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Nimis
7 Posts
Who would agree that patches are not balancing or fixing the game but instead changing it so that it would not be the same game after the patch ? | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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Mirabel_
United States1768 Posts
Warcraft III's ever-slowing patch cycle and Brood War's maps-are-balance mentality are the reason I've always preferred to invest effort into such games over the patch-culture that has been in vogue lately. | ||
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Tappo
101 Posts
On August 08 2018 16:36 Mirabel_ wrote: I'm all for constant expansion and refinement, but large defibrillator patches designed primarily to destabilize the meta only belong in shallow games like MOBAs and MMOs. It's a testament to Blizzard's lack of respect for the competitive depth of Starcraft II that almost three years after LotV, they still aren't confident enough to cut the umbilical or even decide what they want the "ultimate balance" to look like. Warcraft III's ever-slowing patch cycle and Brood War's maps-are-balance mentality are the reason I've always preferred to invest effort into such games over the patch-culture that has been in vogue lately. " large defibrillator patches". You mean those things that happen once a year? Yeah, its outrageous. The moment you get used to the game (After 1 year), the game is already patched again. They mostly patched the extreme shit in in between LotV redesign updates. Like zergling drop, ravens nuking entire armys, mass reaper, easy adept wins. Stuff that shouldnt be Good to see that you prefer the brood war method. I bet they are still playing that island map from ASL.... Or? Nope, still Fighting Spirit | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
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Mirabel_
United States1768 Posts
On August 08 2018 17:14 Tappo wrote: Good to see that you prefer the brood war method. I bet they are still playing that island map from ASL.... Or? Nope, still Fighting Spirit Was there originally a point in this statement? Sparkle was this year's crazy racial-balance-be-damned map, it's the one they weren't planning on keeping around anyway, and most people are pleased by this since there is yet to be a competitively viable island map. on the other hand, the general opinion of Transistor is much more favorable and people are looking forward to that map's future. FS's latent imbalances are coming to light but they're hardly damning enough and the map on the whole is hardly shallow enough to justify phasing out like the long-lived standard maps that came before it. It's going to be part of the equation for a long time and for good reason. | ||
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Yozora
Finland65 Posts
On August 08 2018 17:17 xelnaga_empire wrote: The patches are fine. They make the game better. After Blizzcon, Blizzard needs to fix Carrier + HT combination. Yeah do that and Protoss can't win late-game no more. | ||
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TheWildShooter
79 Posts
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digmouse
China6328 Posts
On August 08 2018 22:20 TheWildShooter wrote: What I don't like about SC2 patches is that with every patch the game use more and more disk space. When I first installed SC2 back in 2010 it took like 7GB, now it's freaking 40GB and keep growing. The game is also more than tripling its original content. 40GB for 8 years of patches and content is absolutely fine in 2018. | ||
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
On August 08 2018 22:20 TheWildShooter wrote: What I don't like about SC2 patches is that with every patch the game use more and more disk space. When I first installed SC2 back in 2010 it took like 7GB, now it's freaking 40GB and keep growing. There has been a lot of content added. WoL only vs WoL+HotS+LotV+Nova+Co-op. They really should consider making a multiplayer-only/on-demand install option though. | ||
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MarthTV
Germany387 Posts
Also Blizz should give the Scout in BW a bit of that treatment. That unit is never played because its just awful in every way. Or they could simply remove it to make it easier for players that don't know that much about BW. No reason to build a shitty overpriced unit. | ||
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Tappo
101 Posts
On August 08 2018 22:20 TheWildShooter wrote: What I don't like about SC2 patches is that with every patch the game use more and more disk space. When I first installed SC2 back in 2010 it took like 7GB, now it's freaking 40GB and keep growing. You should reinstall the game. Its currently 27 gb for me | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1597 Posts
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Tappo
101 Posts
On August 08 2018 23:01 NoobSkills wrote: The changes are kind of irrelevant maybe if you don't know them there might be some small things that affect 1% of your gameplay. To be honest I just think it is a way to appease the whiners. Balance only affects the pros, at any lower level there are so many other things to focus on, that whatever balance issue you have can be made up by better macro, micro, not getting supply blocked, scouting, ect. And I think that even at the pro level balance < mistakes or miscalculations. There was a time when the early game balance was poor, but that was long ago, and that could affect the game, but not anymore. You are running into a paradox. The better you become, the better your opponent is going to abuse shit. And having to constantly analyze your opponents game for bullshit is not going to help your own. Which was especially in XvP in HotS a problem. People on every level lose against imbalance. You can be as good as you want. It doesnt matter | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On August 08 2018 23:01 NoobSkills wrote: The changes are kind of irrelevant maybe if you don't know them there might be some small things that affect 1% of your gameplay. To be honest I just think it is a way to appease the whiners. Balance only affects the pros, at any lower level there are so many other things to focus on, that whatever balance issue you have can be made up by better macro, micro, not getting supply blocked, scouting, ect. And I think that even at the pro level balance < mistakes or miscalculations. There was a time when the early game balance was poor, but that was long ago, and that could affect the game, but not anymore. While I agree that ballance at nearly any level can be overcome with skill it's foolish to think that it only impacts the pros. It definitely depends how the imbalance plays out if it impacts players but it certainly can. For instance during the blink era tvp I saw nearly 80% of my masters opponents going for 2 base blink Allin. It was extremely difficult to beat Protoss at my level of play compared to before and after this period in hots. I would think it's fair to say that ballance impacted me and probably many of the players below my league since Protoss were easily crushing Terran on unfair maps with a very aggressive early timing. It was not particularly hard to use said early timing you just had to follow the build order, get vision of the main, blink in to it, do a little blink micro and most of the time you would win no matter what build Terran did to prepare for this strat. Id say that this imbalance affected me. Now granted other times imbalance has not been that big a deal at my level, for instance back in early wol when Protoss had kaydrian amulet not many Protoss on my level abused it despite the fact it was latter removed outright from the game because of how op instant warpins of storm is. Probably because collosi were prity alright without hts at the time and most games in early wol got decided before realy late game imbalances like amulet became apparent. | ||
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billynasty
United States260 Posts
On August 08 2018 22:20 TheWildShooter wrote: What I don't like about SC2 patches is that with every patch the game use more and more disk space. When I first installed SC2 back in 2010 it took like 7GB, now it's freaking 40GB and keep growing. My Starcraft2 folder is only 24.2 gb's for all 3 games & Nova Mission Pack. I hate this argument of how this game is 40gb's. Like #1 it isn't, the proof is with my installation folder & #2 I have other games on my pc that aren't as much fun as SC2 or don't have as much content & theyre 80gb's. | ||
Olli
Austria24417 Posts
So not really sure what the issue is. Personally, I'd even prefer small patches more often. The second it becomes obvious that certain strategies in certain matchups are head and shoulders above the others (see: having to open SG every PvZ), or certain units aren't used frequently or the way people would like to use them, they should be looking to make small tweaks to try and steer the game towards more diversity. | ||
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
Storage space shouldn't be an issue as just about every single computer on the market comes with a 1TB HDD aside from whatever other storage drives that are included in the package. I'm glad blizzard patches the game on a frequent basis. I'd love it even more if they shook things up on a greater level with new units just as often if not more. | ||
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billynasty
United States260 Posts
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
On August 12 2018 23:51 billynasty wrote: if you guys care that much about the space, just uninstall & reinstall & you should save 10gb's or more in the process I care because it's on SSD. I made a topic on bnet. Blues didn't respond but a mvp. reinstalling won't solve this (delete a language pack), it has something with agent.exe or internal server. | ||
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TheZergishOne
27 Posts
I firmly believe that blizzard does these massive patches just to get people talking about the game more. To shake up the meta. Because SC2 is blizzards baby, and they like to vigorously shake it every year. | ||
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billynasty
United States260 Posts
On August 13 2018 00:14 Dingodile wrote: I care because it's on SSD. I made a topic on bnet. Blues didn't respond but a mvp. reinstalling won't solve this (delete a language pack), it has something with agent.exe or internal server. All i did was reinstall the game in June & this is my SC2 folder. Perhaps try it before saying it doesn't save space, because it obviously saved space on my SSD. If there are any language packs that you don't need, then simply delete the unused locales to save space. Your launcher shouldn't load the locales again after deleting them unless they're required. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/AFb73cH.png) | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 13 2018 02:02 TheZergishOne wrote: The yearly patches are to improve game design not balance. And I think most people would agree they did a pretty good job both times. The game is better with tankivacs and mothership cores.Yeah I can't stand the yearly redesign patches. The saddest thing about them is before the first one they were actually very close to perfect balance imo, some of the smaller changes they did since then would be all that's needed. Like at the time tempests were too little supply, Terran needed a ghost buff for fighting ultras, hydras were still 1 shot by liberators etc. Small tweaks. I firmly believe that blizzard does these massive patches just to get people talking about the game more. To shake up the meta. Because SC2 is blizzards baby, and they like to vigorously shake it every year. | ||
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digmouse
China6328 Posts
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
On August 13 2018 02:51 billynasty wrote: All i did was reinstall the game in June & this is my SC2 folder. Perhaps try it before saying it doesn't save space, because it obviously saved space on my SSD. If there are any language packs that you don't need, then simply delete the unused locales to save space. you can delete the language pack but you will have to download it again when the next patch arrives. Same story with Diablo3, each D3 language pack is about 6GB. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On August 13 2018 02:54 digmouse wrote: Is there any other explanation? This is exactly how "live games" are supposed to be run nowadays. In terms of eSports wasn't SC2 the one that pioneered this style of frequent numeric and mechanical changes on top of map rotation changes? Unless you count WoW eSports which was also Blizzard. I know League adds champions and whatnot, but that game didn't really take off until after SC2. DotA 2 as far as I know from my friends has only really had one significant patch in 6 years, and even that was relatively recent. CS:GO has had some but most of them were considered very bad and promptly reverted if I recall correctly. Obviously Quake has stayed much the same up until QC last year. And I'm so ignorant of the FGC that I don't even know if the meme of SF4 having 69 billion different versions of the game is even relevant here. | ||
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digmouse
China6328 Posts
On August 13 2018 03:32 207aicila wrote: In terms of eSports wasn't SC2 the one that pioneered this style of frequent numeric and mechanical changes on top of map rotation changes? Unless you count WoW eSports which was also Blizzard. I know League adds champions and whatnot, but that game didn't really take off until after SC2. DotA 2 as far as I know from my friends has only really had one significant patch in 6 years, and even that was relatively recent. CS:GO has had some but most of them were considered very bad and promptly reverted if I recall correctly. Obviously Quake has stayed much the same up until QC last year. And I'm so ignorant of the FGC that I don't even know if the meme of SF4 having 69 billion different versions of the game is even relevant here. SC2 was actually really slow in the early years when it comes to balance changes. Other major esports titles often shake up their mechanics and meta every few months, while back in WoL and HotS era balance changes were often very far in between, hence the dreaded Broodlord-Infestor era and the Swarm Host era. Dota 2 actually had fairly frequent balance changes up until 2017 but they stopped pushing rapid major patches since the game is stable now. Major balance patches every year isn't really that frequent in today's landscape. And most patches we had in the past year or two are about features and coop updates which is the main money maker for SC2. | ||
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Tappo
101 Posts
On August 13 2018 03:32 207aicila wrote: In terms of eSports wasn't SC2 the one that pioneered this style of frequent numeric and mechanical changes on top of map rotation changes? Unless you count WoW eSports which was also Blizzard. I know League adds champions and whatnot, but that game didn't really take off until after SC2. DotA 2 as far as I know from my friends has only really had one significant patch in 6 years, and even that was relatively recent. CS:GO has had some but most of them were considered very bad and promptly reverted if I recall correctly. Obviously Quake has stayed much the same up until QC last year. And I'm so ignorant of the FGC that I don't even know if the meme of SF4 having 69 billion different versions of the game is even relevant here. What mechanical changes are you talking about? Everything in the game pretty much works the same since release. Changing/adding units doesnt change the game mechanically. High Ground, Unit Pathing and all the other core mechanics are pretty much the same. Besides target prio and inject stacking. They havent added coop like mechanics to the game. Also odd that you completely ignore that Starcraft 1 was patched and changed  Patches 1.01-1.07. Or that DotA has patchnotes every couple of month that go across several screens. And saying that changing Heroes and other units in DotA is not the same as changing units in Starcraft is just funny. Your friends dont actually believe that their game isnt being changed, do they? They probably want to believe that they are playing a perfect game | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
Goes back to good game design. Lots of people look at it as if no one plays the game anymore so they stop supporting said game - not talking about SC2 when the reality is if things are running good there is no reason for it. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 13 2018 04:32 Tappo wrote: What mechanical changes are you talking about? Everything in the game pretty much works the same since release. Changing/adding units doesnt change the game mechanically. High Ground, Unit Pathing and all the other core mechanics are pretty much the same. Besides target prio and inject stacking. They havent added coop like mechanics to the game. Also odd that you completely ignore that Starcraft 1 was patched and changed Patches 1.01-1.07. Or that DotA has patchnotes every couple of month that go across several screens. And saying that changing Heroes and other units in DotA is not the same as changing units in Starcraft is just funny. Your friends dont actually believe that their game isnt being changed, do they? They probably want to believe that they are playing a perfect gameMOBA's are a bad example because of the ever changing heroes/new heros to the fold, so they have to revamp said heroes before they get stuck in the abyss. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On August 13 2018 04:10 digmouse wrote: SC2 was actually really slow in the early years when it comes to balance changes. Other major esports titles often shake up their mechanics and meta every few months, while back in WoL and HotS era balance changes were often very far in between, hence the dreaded Broodlord-Infestor era and the Swarm Host era. Interesting. Yeah there were some terrible periods without patches that pretty much tanked the viewership irreparably, but there were also Thor build time changes, Thor ability changes, Ghost energy changes, Stalker vs armor damage changes maybe? and all kinds of little things like that almost every month or two. Build time on buildings (not just bunkers), Warp Gate research time, other upgrades etc. Oh yeah lots of tweaks to roaches and hydras as well, anyone remember when Roaches were 2 supply? LOL. Queen range that's another one that's been changed like 3 or 4 times total IIRC. It may have been a long time ago but I followed WoL quite closely.  On August 13 2018 04:32 Tappo wrote: What mechanical changes are you talking about? Everything in the game pretty much works the same since release. Changing/adding units doesnt change the game mechanically. High Ground, Unit Pathing and all the other core mechanics are pretty much the same. Besides target prio and inject stacking. They havent added coop like mechanics to the game. So to you mechanical change = changing the genre or something? Lol okay mister pedant, I meant things like changing how unit abilities work, adding and removing units, obviously a lot of HotS and LotV's economy rebalances. Stuff like that, not just skins and little numeric things like that. On August 13 2018 04:32 Tappo wrote: Also odd that you completely ignore that Starcraft 1 was patched and changed Patches 1.01-1.07. Or that DotA has patchnotes every couple of month that go across several screens. And saying that changing Heroes and other units in DotA is not the same as changing units in Starcraft is just funny. Your friends dont actually believe that their game isnt being changed, do they? They probably want to believe that they are playing a perfect gameYou want to know why I ignored it? Because they were very early in its lifespan. SC1 remained unchanged from 2001 all the way to present day, when it was still being changed it had not yet become the juggernaut of eSports that it would peak at in 2008-2009. Also, again, SC1 is virtually unchanged aside from maps from 2001 to now. You think that's anywhere comparable to Blizzard's many balance patches per year for 8 years in a row? Come on man... For DotA I can't speak other than what my friends told me. Don't know what you mean about "changing Heroes in DotA is not the same as changing units in Starcraft" I never said anything like that, all I said is that League got big after SC2. | ||
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Tappo
101 Posts
On August 13 2018 04:50 207aicila wrote: Interesting. Yeah there were some terrible periods without patches that pretty much tanked the viewership irreparably, but there were also Thor build time changes, Thor ability changes, Ghost energy changes, Stalker vs armor damage changes maybe? and all kinds of little things like that almost every month or two. Build time on buildings (not just bunkers), Warp Gate research time, other upgrades etc. Oh yeah lots of tweaks to roaches and hydras as well, anyone remember when Roaches were 2 supply? LOL. Queen range that's another one that's been changed like 3 or 4 times total IIRC. It may have been a long time ago but I followed WoL quite closely. So to you mechanical change = changing the genre or something? Lol okay mister pedant, I meant things like changing how unit abilities work, adding and removing units, obviously a lot of HotS and LotV's economy rebalances. Stuff like that, not just skins and little numeric things like that. You want to know why I ignored it? Because they were very early in its lifespan. SC1 remained unchanged from 2001 all the way to present day, when it was still being changed it had not yet become the juggernaut of eSports that it would peak at in 2008-2009. Also, again, SC1 is virtually unchanged aside from maps from 2001 to now. You think that's anywhere comparable to Blizzard's many balance patches per year for 8 years in a row? Come on man... For DotA I can't speak other than what my friends told me. Don't know what you mean about "changing Heroes in DotA is not the same as changing units in Starcraft" I never said anything like that, all I said is that League got big after SC2. Okay Mr. Smart. Explain how DotA isnt changed every couple of month. Portal:PatchesHow many times do you read "Balance Changes", "Reduced/Increased" and what not. I have quite alot on just a single screen. DotA was the "pioneer" of changing everything just for the sake of it. They never had a plan. They just reacted. And yes, changing mechanics is changing the game in its core. Adjusting a unit is not a game mechanic change | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On August 13 2018 05:05 Tappo wrote: Okay Mr. Smart. Explain how DotA isnt changed every couple of month. atches on Liquipedia" target="_blank" href="https://liquipedia.net/dota2/Portal  atches">PortalatchesHow many times do you read "Balance Changes", "Reduced/Increased" and what not. I have quite alot on just a single screen. My dude I literally told you I don't play DotA and you keep trying to obsessively gotcha me over things I haven't said because I couldn't possibly know, just to win a random internet argument? On August 13 2018 05:05 Tappo wrote: And yes, changing mechanics is changing the game in its core. Adjusting a unit is not a game mechanic change Okay, I misspoke. Do you at least understand what I was trying to say, or are you going to keep being a pedant for no reason and embarrass yourself by completely missing the point in the process? | ||
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Tappo
101 Posts
On August 13 2018 05:11 207aicila wrote: My dude I literally told you I don't play DotA and you keep trying to obsessively gotcha me over things I haven't said because I couldn't possibly know, just to win a random internet argument? Okay, I misspoke. Do you at least understand what I was trying to say, or are you going to keep being a pedant for no reason and embarrass yourself by completely missing the point in the process? You pretty much made a fool out of yourself by trying to compare Starcraft to 3 different genres and 4-5 different games. You definitly won that categorie. And you just said that you dont really know what you are talking about. Your point: "Starcraft 2 pioneered frequent patching". Which is simply wrong. Oh by the way: Your "frequent patching" probably refers to early post starcraft 2 release days. Which would be the same case as in Starcraft 1. Which would legimatize it. Not that comparing 1998 Starcraft with 2010 is a good idea in the first place | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On August 08 2018 17:17 xelnaga_empire wrote: The patches are fine. They make the game better. After Blizzcon, Blizzard needs to fix Carrier + HT combination. There's nothing to fix there. | ||
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Rodya
546 Posts
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On August 08 2018 16:03 Nimis wrote: The patches are game changing, not only bug fixes but reasonable gameplay overhaul. Based on the fact that maps are changed all the time consistently I believe that developers are not fixing or patching the game but in turn are deliberately changing the way the game is being played and not for better experience but only so that it would not be the same game everyone is used to. Who would agree that patches are not balancing or fixing the game but instead changing it so that it would not be the same game after the patch ? no. Only the end-of-the-year patch sometimes has major gameplay changes. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
On August 08 2018 16:36 Mirabel_ wrote: I'm all for constant expansion and refinement, but large defibrillator patches designed primarily to destabilize the meta only belong in shallow games like MOBAs and MMOs. It's a testament to Blizzard's lack of respect for the competitive depth of Starcraft II that almost three years after LotV, they still aren't confident enough to cut the umbilical or even decide what they want the "ultimate balance" to look like. Warcraft III's ever-slowing patch cycle and Brood War's maps-are-balance mentality are the reason I've always preferred to invest effort into such games over the patch-culture that has been in vogue lately. On August 08 2018 17:58 Mirabel_ wrote: Was there originally a point in this statement? Sparkle was this year's crazy racial-balance-be-damned map, it's the one they weren't planning on keeping around anyway, and most people are pleased by this since there is yet to be a competitively viable island map. on the other hand, the general opinion of Transistor is much more favorable and people are looking forward to that map's future. FS's latent imbalances are coming to light but they're hardly damning enough and the map on the whole is hardly shallow enough to justify phasing out like the long-lived standard maps that came before it. It's going to be part of the equation for a long time and for good reason. damn, dude, I like your style of writing.. start a blog about.. anything, I want to read more. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
also want to make a small correction here: On August 13 2018 02:54 digmouse wrote: Dota 2 actually had fairly frequent balance changes up until 2017 but they stopped pushing rapid major patches since the game is stable now. Major balance patches every year isn't really that frequent in today's landscape. And most patches we had in the past year or two are about features and coop updates which is the main money maker for SC2. it is the opposite. previously there had been a few patches that had lasted 6months to a year, but DotA 2 now gets patched every 2 weeks. they're at liberty to adjust numbers to re-orient power levels mostly because nothing is game-changing at a fundamental level. it would only affect which heroes become more popular in a tournament setting and every rung affected by that on its way down. what i'm saying is there's plenty of time to adjust and to have different heroes up your sleeve--that along with your choices or mistakes being only 20% of the pie. DotA patches were previously very hectic because they would change so many things. since, they've dialed it back and gone into 'manageable' patches between tournaments. i say manageable in quotations because it still affects the professionals a great deal because it tells them what they can and can't play which means they need to adapt a new playstyle or practice from scratch. have they made bad patches? yes, and they still do. certain heroes do too much against the most meta heroes and exceed the level of playable. it's not a matter of a hero being solid enough to be considered for first pick/ban, it's that something is so strong you'd be stupid not to pick it for your team. there are always multiple heroes like this, and there always will be, and that's fine. there are many ways to play around it and make the game your own. starcraft 2 patches are weird because in theory they shouldn't affect anybody but the people in the highest MMR bracket, but then you have all these difficult factors like affecting a player's motivation to play because they don't yet know solutions to problems, or with them not wanting to use the playstyle required of them. i'll just put it this way. starcraft players bemoan change because they're already comfortable going through the motions, or progressing their play a certain way. they do not (read: casual players) train fundamentals to be able to deal with changes that derail that progress--and in their eyes, rightfully so. there's nothing wrong with frequent patches, it just sucks for players who play in intermittent spurts and have no clue what changes made things more difficult or more easy for them. | ||
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
On August 13 2018 23:24 Jan1997 wrote: The way blizz treats SC2 is a joke in my eyes with all the changing of things constantly. That's why I miss WOL ladder so god damn much because it was so stable, no changes, no new maps, just pure and simple stability. DO you miss BL-Infector? | ||
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Riner1212
United States337 Posts
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Jan1997
Norway671 Posts
99% of the playerbase including myself were never good enough for that to even matter. :p | ||
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Quateras
Germany867 Posts
Looking back now, i absolutely love where the game is at design wise compared to last year or the year before that. (fuck the MSC was so bad, and tankivacs..dear god) Shaking things up is pretty good thing to make me interested into the game again if i get bored, trying out new builds/openers or even re-evaluate army compositions. More diversity > static fixed builds/openers being only viable for a MU is a better option to do with a game in my opinion. So i hope they continue with it. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On August 14 2018 03:55 Charoisaur wrote: The game is getting patched constantly because some dude at Blizzard thought 'Oh, LoL is getting patched constantly and it's more succesful than SC2 - let's copy everything they do' without taking into consideration that changing an RTS game is very different from changing a MOBA. Keeping the game fresh and interesting is the key to keeping players engaged. We've already seen what happens to games that aren't constantly updated, they begin to fade because players get bored executing the same builds day in and day out so they end up playing other games. An example of this is the broodlord infestor era when sc2 was not being patched or updated. Many people left the game because it stayed the same for over a year and they got bored If you constantly mix up the game, it adds a puzzle element to the game. Something you have to solve. Something to figure out. It adds an element of fun to the game. It keeps things fresh. On a greater and more important scale, It forces the meta to evolve rather than stagnate. I think an ever-evolving meta is more interesting to watch and play in than one that stays the same. I'd like to see sc2 get shaken up every month with new units/changes. (i'm ready for another big shake up) | ||
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BretZ
United States1510 Posts
On August 13 2018 23:24 Jan1997 wrote: The way blizz treats SC2 is a joke in my eyes with all the changing of things constantly. That's why I miss WOL ladder so god damn much because it was so stable, no changes, no new maps, just pure and simple stability. damn thats not even remotely true | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On August 14 2018 04:06 ReachTheSky wrote: Keeping the game fresh and interesting is the key to keeping players engaged. We've already seen what happens to games that aren't constantly updated, they begin to fade because players get bored executing the same builds day in and day out so they end up playing other games. What other game with a "build" (so I assume an RTS) do you have in mind? SCBW that hasn't been patched in 20 years or WC3 that saw its first balance patch in years in 2018? Are those the games that faded away? | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On August 13 2018 23:24 Jan1997 wrote: The way blizz treats SC2 is a joke in my eyes with all the changing of things constantly. That's why I miss WOL ladder so god damn much because it was so stable, no changes, no new maps, just pure and simple stability. Do you really think a game being stable is more important than a game being good? | ||
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Tappo
101 Posts
On August 14 2018 04:21 Ej_ wrote: What other game with a "build" (so I assume an RTS) do you have in mind? SCBW that hasn't been patched in 20 years or WC3 that saw its first balance patch in years in 2018? Are those the games that faded away? Both of those games needed a wakeup patch. And they needed their oldboys back. You cant possible say that Brood War was not "fading away" when the flashes and jaedongs were playing starcraft 2. Not sure how big Twitch/back2warcraft was. But the name already implies something. People are still playing Warcraft 2. I guess nothing fades away | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On August 14 2018 04:21 Ej_ wrote: What other game with a "build" (so I assume an RTS) do you have in mind? SCBW that hasn't been patched in 20 years or WC3 that saw its first balance patch in years in 2018? Are those the games that faded away? No i'm not referring to wc3 or bw. My example was a generally brought up to show why it's important to have a constantly updated game. Updated games survive longer and retain the players. Players can only do the same thing so many times before they get bored of it. Speaking of wc3 though, I think it's fantastic they updated the game because we saw what happened to it when they didn't....It faded away and people stopped playing. Once they updated it, players got interested in it again. I guess this is a good example that supports what i'm saying, updates are good and keep things interesting. | ||
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Nick6
3 Posts
there's a difference between shaking up the meta and making the changes that LOTV has introduced. although most of you will probably downvote this and say "lotv is the best sc2 has ever been", the excessive balance patches do nothing but make the game worse. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15914 Posts
On August 18 2018 17:17 Nick6 wrote: sc2 is constantly patched because blizzard continuously tries to fix balance problems that don't exist, and end up doing things like making zerg easy enough that foreigners can win the gsl, there's a difference between shaking up the meta and making the changes that LOTV has introduced. although most of you will probably downvote this and say "lotv is the best sc2 has ever been", the excessive balance patches do nothing but make the game worse. I don't think anyone will downvote you | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On August 14 2018 03:48 Quateras wrote: Surprised how many people seem to dislike the end of the year Design patches. Looking back now, i absolutely love where the game is at design wise compared to last year or the year before that. (fuck the MSC was so bad, and tankivacs..dear god) Shaking things up is pretty good thing to make me interested into the game again if i get bored, trying out new builds/openers or even re-evaluate army compositions. More diversity > static fixed builds/openers being only viable for a MU is a better option to do with a game in my opinion. So i hope they continue with it. Yeah, but new cyclons are bad design. What's so fun about yet another all-in unit? | ||
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digmouse
China6328 Posts
Because there isn't a downvote function on TL. | ||
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fluidrone
France1478 Posts
Why has blizzard not added/changed everything that is straightforward and easy to do .. to make the game as competitive as it can be? (reactor/tech lab placement choice on either sides of the buildings for instance but hardly a unique example / this "fix"/change is an hour's work worth in the editor)? Why has blizzard stooped to this level? what made them stop trying to balance the units themselves? Why is blizzard balancing their units with the maps? (always 1 ramp with "destructible panels to prevent contains/rushes) This is ON EVERY MAP?!!! (this destructible unit was the first time ever that the game fell short! and everyone could see it)  Why has blizzard not fixed their "rejoin a game" bnet functionality? Why is there not a real map rotation within the map pool (like at least one map in one map out a month for instance) ? [motm hype] Why is this "patching" served as a betterment when it does not address those aforementioned major issues? It has been 8 years +  (it is starting to show really just how much the "sc2 community" is a pale imitation of what the bw community was.. and how tournament do not have the guts to impose new maps adding extensions to their maps that "try" to fix glaring issues .. in short doing whatever they can to advance the development of the game.. from their end tldr: Plus cela change plus c'est la même chose! + Show Spoiler [>] + the more things change the more they stay the same! | ||
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ETisME
12361 Posts
Shield battery patch is the best patch we have ever gotten IMO. The games are just significantly more dynamic. Honestly i am even hoping there will be more major patches every few years that remove/introduce unit. Figuring out strategies and counters have always been a fun part of sc2. | ||
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