• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:03
CEST 17:03
KST 00:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage3Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2)
Tourneys
GSL CK - monthly team event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1403 users

Recruiting SCII Writers & Artists! - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
20 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-21 01:13:10
July 21 2018 01:10 GMT
#21
Wrote this on a whim recently, but not sure if I should bother with a formal application. I suppose it qualifies as an editorial? Guess I would have to come up with a preview too.

TvZ Lategame: Role Reversal

The point is twofold:

First, enough Ghosts with enough energy and proper control, assuming they’re in a properly sieged and fortified defensive setup, can smash any army that Zerg can produce. The ultimate Terran army beats the ultimate Zerg army, hands down. Planetaries, Liberators, and Marauders shield the Ghosts from the Ling/Bane/Broodlings and let them get their spells off. Barring lucky fungals that catch the entire Ghost ball or an equivalent miracle, EMP will deny spellcasting and snipes will slaughter the Zerg tech units.

Second, Zerg has a massive advantage and will almost certainly win in the lategame. This is not because the ultimate army for Zerg is stronger–it’s weaker. It’s simply because the lategame reverses the conventional roles of each race, and Zerg gains an inherent advantage from that. In normal TvZ, Terran is the aggressor and Zerg the defender. Zerg therefore has certain advantages to facilitate that defense. Like creep, for vision and rapid army movement. It also has the production advantage of larva, which allow army units to be produced on-demand. As the defender, these advantages are necessary to survive. Of course, Terran has offensive advantages too. Mules let the Terran produce fewer scvs and more army, planetaries reduce the need for static defense, and so forth. However, in the lategame, the roles flip. Terran becomes the defender and Zerg the aggressor. And as the aggressor, Zerg’s advantages become overwhelmingly strong whereas Terran’s defensive advantages dwindle to irrelevance, and thus Zerg gains a massive advantage over Terran.

I mentioned earlier that the ultimate Terran army can beat the ultimate Zerg army. Problem is, the ultimate Terran army is slow as fuck and extremely clunky to reposition, because of the need for unsieging and resieging, presplitting, etc. Because Ghosts are the critical unit, it is also hindered by the need to accommodate and protect slow ground units around terrain features. Now to be fair, the ultimate Zerg army is also slow as fuck, despite being more reliant on air units; nobody says BLs are fast.

The key here is that ultimate armies don’t actually matter. The lategame is not about ultimate armies. It’s about the economy.

Think for a moment about a generic TvZ lategame. The map is split in two. The Zerg half, and probably a fair chunk of the Terran half, is covered in creep. Terran is all turtled up behind sensor towers and planetaries and turrets. Both sides have massive banks (Zerg moreso) and both sides have these enormous lategame deathballs squaring off on one side of the map, near Terran’s fifth or sixth.

If Zerg is dumb, they look at their mighty LBH + BL/Infestor/Corruptor/Viper army and go “Hell yeah this army is invincible! Imma go crush that Terran scrub!” They muster up all their micro skill and go for it. Then the Terran army goes pew pew and suddenly that mighty Zerg army is a puddle of blood. The dumb Zerg, in a fit of petulance, reaches for his enormous checkbook and writes himself a big old check for a whole new LBH + BL/Infestor/Corruptor/Viper army. Rinse and repeat until the dumb Zerg realizes that the universe is finite, its resources finite, and promptly dies.

But if the Zerg is smart, they look at their mighty LBH + BL/Infestor/Corruptor/Viper army and go….absolutely nowhere. That mighty Zerg army does nothing at all. It just sits on its ass, right on the edge of Terran’s vision, occasionally poking and posturing and reminding Terran of the horrible swarmy doom that it can unleash at any moment. Any moment now. Aaaaany moment.

Instead, the smart Zerg takes some of the smallest, most insignificant units in that mighty Zerg army, namely Ling/Bane, and runs it to the opposite side of the map, to Terran’s fourth or sixth or whatever. While both players are staring at their enormous deathballs, he amoves or shift-clicks into the base, and gets cleaned up after blowing up some supply depots or something. Then he makes some more Ling/Bane and does it again, at that same base, or another base, doesn’t matter just as long as it’s far away from the big Terran deathball. None of this will accomplish very much, just killing the stray depot or sensor tower or what have you, slowly eroding the walls of the Terran turtle. Attention, after all, is a resource just like minerals or gas, and just as finite. Terran doesn’t have time to fix walls–at least not all of them–when there’s a horrible swarmy doom on his doorstep.

Then the Zerg takes a little more supply, and makes a bunch of banes. A whole lot of banes. He runs them past the broken-down walls and straight into a planetary. Boom. Suddenly Terran is down a base. This, of course, gets a reaction from the Terran. He needs that base, after all. So he sends an scv to build a new CC, or he floats over one of his orbitals, or whatever. Whatever it is, it’s more vulnerable than a planetary was, so it’s a straightforward matter for the Zerg to send a bit more Ling/Bane and deny it. Now the Terran wises up, assuming he didn’t the first time, and sends a couple medivacs worth of bio to clean up the nuisance and secure the expansion. So the next time, Zerg sends the Ling/Bane to a different base. If he’s feeling bold, perhaps he sends some hydras or even ultras along with them. Maybe he even attacks two bases at once. Maybe once Terran has pulled scvs, he burrows some cracklings in the mineral line, or banes along the reinforcement path. You get the idea. Soon enough the Terran is running everywhere, trying to put out fires. Except more of them keep springing up. Except the Ling/Bane arsonists are faster than the MMM firefighters. Except Zerg has a bigger bank than he does, and the larva to use it, and an extra base or two mining because Terran’s fourth or fifth or sixth is always on fire.

The thing is, Ling/Bane is fast. Really fast. When the map is mostly purple, Ling/Bane gets anywhere in a real hurry. As the defender, this is essential in order to react to drops. As the aggressor though, Ling/Bane runs rings around Bio. And Terran's own advantages don't scale the same way. Mules are great but somewhat less important with huge banks. While they do allow larger Terran armies, the issue is not army size but rather army position. Even a maxed army cannot defend everywhere. Planetaries are great against smaller harass but enough banes can and do defeat them. When Terran is the one defending, stimmed bio arrives to the fight half-dead. Boost is a slow reaction when the first warning is banes exploding. And when both players are paying attention to their huge deathballs, amoved Ling/Bane blows up amoved Bio. Cracklings tear buildings down in record time, and while using banes against buildings is inefficient, that doesn’t matter so much when Zerg has an extra base or two mining.

And all the while, Zerg has an enormous deathball waiting patiently outside the Terran base. Waiting for Terran to lose a little too much patience and move out of that fortified position with turrets and planetaries and liberators galore. Waiting for Terran to lose a little too much economy and stop replacing those expensive Ghosts. Waiting for victory.

So maybe Terran doesn’t take the bait and waits, putting out fires as best as he can, trying to harass a Zerg with vision of half the map and then some. Eventually Terran’s smaller bank runs dry and his hope with it. Death by a thousand cuts. Zerg wins.

Or Terran does take the bait and moves out, onto creep, into a spore forest, trying to smash the Zerg in a decisive engagement. Even if he wins the fight by some miracle, what then? Go deep onto creep to kill one hatchery and get surrounded by the remax? Or inch forward, clear a bit of creep, and hope to pull off another miracle against the remax? Death by overextension. Zerg wins.

I think you get the picture. People often say that Terran has a weak lategame against Zerg, which I don’t think is entirely accurate. Terran has a strong lategame. It just doesn’t matter, because lategame isn’t about strength on a fundamental level. It’s about the economy.


Sorry for the wall of text. TL;DR lategame TvZ is a game of economy with Terran defending and Zerg attacking, and inherently favors Zerg.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
LamboSC2 320
Hui .288
trigger 122
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4350
Bisu 2873
Horang2 2493
Jaedong 2410
EffOrt 767
Shuttle 709
Soma 457
Larva 422
Stork 388
Light 305
[ Show more ]
Aegong 305
Snow 305
Mini 245
ZerO 220
Soulkey 219
ggaemo 202
Hyuk 175
Rush 155
JYJ 76
hero 64
[sc1f]eonzerg 57
Sharp 56
Backho 46
sSak 36
Shinee 35
Movie 26
910 25
Hm[arnc] 23
Terrorterran 21
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
soO 14
Sacsri 14
Dota 2
Gorgc5082
qojqva2580
Counter-Strike
fl0m2088
oskar95
Other Games
singsing2487
Liquid`RaSZi1194
B2W.Neo1014
hiko626
Lowko380
crisheroes316
XcaliburYe133
XaKoH 119
ArmadaUGS99
QueenE86
Mew2King65
Trikslyr12
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV547
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV628
• lizZardDota254
League of Legends
• Nemesis3409
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
8h 57m
Replay Cast
17h 57m
Kung Fu Cup
19h 57m
Replay Cast
1d 8h
The PondCast
1d 18h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
BSL
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.