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Starting from Page 11 and onward, if anyone talks about how Blizzard, TOs, and sponsors should no longer support BTTV and Rifkin, you will be temp banned. This adds NOTHING productive to the discussion and only makes the community look immature. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/532710-basetradetv-and-noregret-disagreement-escalates?page=11#216 Additionally, this post deserves to be publicly noticed. | ||
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JabuSeika
United States607 Posts
Basetrade needs to settle with the people that directly "owe" them, and no one else. I hope other players boycott BTTV tournaments, this is unacceptable for the scene. Just as they have strikes for unethical player behavior. This constitutes unethical tournament organizer behavior. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On April 05 2018 20:48 Keeemy wrote: Rifkin is so shit at handling all the drama revolving around him it's insane. Rifkin annoys me as a caster to no end that I haven't been able to watch BTTV for a long time, but I think he is handling this situation well. | ||
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AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
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lechatnoir
386 Posts
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Shinryus
Germany13 Posts
On April 06 2018 08:56 KGssv2 wrote: Think of it like this, every new online tournament you enter into is a new contract to which you agree with the terms and conditions. At the beginning of every new contract (even if it is on the same subject matter as the previous contract i.e. tournament conditions), it is upon the players to read the terms and conditions. The fact that the sign up page is prefaced with 'By entering into this tournament, you agree to the following Rules and Regulations' is sufficient for legal purposes. As with any commercial dealing, it would be very risky to sign a contract in a course of dealing with the assumption that nothing has changed/was updated from the last contract. I agree that for a business like BTTV it is very unprofessional, not to mention, a severe lack of basic courtesy to not notify players of the specific change, but that does not equate to a legal requirement generally speaking. I hadn't looked at it that way, tbh. To be fair, it does make a lot more sense the way you just put it. It's just like I already said... very unprofessional. Even if it is legally fine for BTTV to change their rules just like that, it would've been fair to notify the players living in the house that there has been a change which affects them. Or just notify NoRegreT and put the reponsibility of informing the other players on him or something. Then again, we do not know if there have actually been any "tax cuts" or however you want to call it. Maybe the rule was made for some sort of safety for BTTV but so far players might have still received the full prize money. We do not know. | ||
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Dirt McGirt
New Zealand129 Posts
Getting into the personal stuff (on both sides) is doing no one any favours. Hopefully it gets sorted in a reasonable manner, but BBTV is alienating some pretty significant players, and NoRegrets comments about not wanting to resolve it due to other history and not liking Rifkin anymore isn't great. If the tax and the rationale was clearly communicated, and agreed too by players participating, then there doesn't seem anything illegal about it. But whether it's ethical is another matter. Doesn't really seem like anyone is covering themselves in glory. Hope it gets sorted asap and everyone involved can move on. | ||
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Iksf
United Kingdom444 Posts
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JD.Cursed
United States19 Posts
On the other hand, if there was a contract... User was warned for this post | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On April 06 2018 17:28 JD.Cursed wrote: Wow! I knew Rifkin was a money grubber from his exceptionally refined Twitch whoring, but this is truly arrogant. On the other hand, if there was a contract... There was certainly a contract. It's just a matter of what was in it. | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
But as usual, they are too many drama queens in this community. :/ This thread should be closed, go on reddit, that's a better place for you. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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blunderfulguy
United States1415 Posts
On April 06 2018 18:19 Zaros wrote: Dont think anyone here has the full picture, best to leave them to it. A 10% reduction in prizes for Basetrade tournaments for people in the korean house is not a big deal and Rifkin can set whatever rules he likes for his own tournaments. And the community can agree or disagree with those rules and talk about it publicly. 10% might not be much money, but people can still say that it's bullshit and why. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On April 06 2018 18:19 Zaros wrote: Dont think anyone here has the full picture, best to leave them to it. A 10% reduction in prizes for Basetrade tournaments for people in the korean house is not a big deal and Rifkin can set whatever rules he likes for his own tournaments. It's not a big deal in and of itself but how vindicative and morally wrong it is is a big deal, at least for me and obviously for a great deal other people. In regards to the contract, Noregret said the contract was separate and has nothing to do with this and seeing as Rifkin wrote to Noregret that "there is a paper trail and good faith negotiations" as support for demanding returns it strongly indicates the contract says nothing about it. If the contract said anything about it I'm sure Rifkin would point that out, but he doesn't. I will also mention that Rifkin(obviously) tipped the interviewer off on this topic(anonymously) so that he could corner noregret. The reason for doing this becomes apparent from the fact that Rifkin choose to be anonymous(even though its obviously him) and then later posts; "There's a reason there hasn't been a public statement made, and why I won't be making a statement about this: Jake and I both signed a contract that includes a confidentiality clause in it. While he may not be willing to honour a contract, I am.". The whole debacle on dankshrine seems to indicate Rifkin wanted Noregret to talk about stuff he was under legal obligation not to talk about while Rifkin stayed anonymous and thus followed the contract. Its very underhanded.. | ||
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Jimmon
United States112 Posts
 except No Regret. He seems like a douche... observation,User was warned for this post | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
2. Resolve issues. Done. No need for threads and pages of comments from people like us who don't know the whole story. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On April 06 2018 20:16 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I think you are overvaluing TL as a mediator, which is either a mere website or esports team, than as per the standard procedures and court of law. In any case it seems increasingly obvious that there is no legal backing to the claims and it wouldn't be settled. No, Teamliquid doesn't have any legal power. It has enough influence to be a mediator in this case. It's also good PR for Teamliquid to do it. It's a matter of willingness. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On April 06 2018 20:44 sc-darkness wrote: No, Teamliquid doesn't have any legal power. It has enough influence to be a mediator in this case. It's also good PR for Teamliquid to do it. It's a matter of willingness. How is influence required to be a mediator and what kind of influence are you saying TL has enough of? What there is to say has already been said here it seems like, Noregret says he owes Rifkin nothing and Rifkin says he owes him and that he has the legal right to follow it up. How is a mediator supposed to help in this situation, only the court can actually settle this and at the moment it seems that is not happening. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
But in the end, if the contract didn't describe what costs were to be reimbursed upon completion of the contract then theres nothing to do. Look. Money was spent in sponsorship. I don't know what you expect back. Its sponsorship, you spend the money and if the ROI is too low, in someone's opinion, then it doesn't matter. Write a better contract next time. Honestly. | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
On April 06 2018 19:11 sc-darkness wrote: 1. Let Teamliquid be a mediator between Rifkin and NoRegret as a StarCraft community organisation. 2. Resolve issues. Done. No need for threads and pages of comments from people like us who don't know the whole story. you aren't serious | ||
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