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On April 07 2018 17:18 fluidrone wrote:Funny, noregret shames rifkin, rifkin shames noregret... Lets be "full disclosure" clear, who "benefits" is the only question. i'd say overall no one benefits, but lets dig a bit more. What else is a kid suppose to do in front of a bully? The whole thing (like so many things) is quite "standard". This community has all the power it needs to deal with it: ignore it take steps add to it and asking for it is a right! Lets dwell into the situation: Did noregret abuse rifkin? probably !!! Did rifkin abuse all of the bttv "guests", .. probably more, no?! ... mmm here i'd like to add the following relevant words: "contract" "kickstarter" "roi" and maths. contract means more than what you kids think, some people actually get their life ruined from signing a contract (said contract can be abusive without being illegal and only a trial will say if it is) roi means shit if you got f cked in the previously specified contract, but it is the quintessential point of the whole affair (again, who gained more out of the outcome of the affair, rifkin or noregret?) maths: simply put, noregret (or whoever) exposed this to the community so that rifkin might/would "lose" more than he was prepared to lose by engaging in this "endeavor", by the mere fact that his "character exposed" would make him lose his lively hodd (viewers) made quite a lot of noise no? As simply put, rifkin played the same game first by implying "other streamers/players" in his endeavor, thinking that his "btttv tax" would be a strong move, an "a move" that made "someone" expose this here (on "forums") and that now brings us to this situation.... Who will get more out of those? While i don't care about the outcome right now, i will care later.. i want to underline both of the "tactics" used! rifkin not wanting to lose versus noregret (whatever the loss is defined as) made other streamers pay for it to shame noregret noregret (or whoever) has no other way to react than to shame rifkin back .. and now here we are, forum without a move? i'd say we do have a move, a clear and swift move  to each his or her own my pov: + Show Spoiler +noregret assumed rifkin would be a supporter enough to build a new house, and rifkin did his rifkin thing ..
if you study the roi and the maths it is clear that both contract signers are both satisfied,
so when rifkin tells you that all he got from this "contract/endeavor" was not good enough (you could argue he clearly lost since now he has nothing out of it) then side with him and keep watching his channel / continue to grant him his livelihood
or
imagine a situation where the roi is clearly in favor of rifkin and imagine that he wants more and that noregret doing the maths makes a power play, yes a kid power play versus a bully, but he does it and the bully calls out the bluff
then u got to call for pitchforks versus lawyers
Only things i get out of this:
glad the foreign house is not bttv property
glad some people think standing up to bullies is worth losing a lot
(someone should do a kickstarter: "reimburse the bully for me" is my advice).
Real funny how you kids still need to take lawyer/law lessons
What is this word diarrhea? This reads like it was generated by a retarded bot. Are they abusing each other? What is this logic, you understand that you can't retroactively change an agreement when the agreement is over and you are not happy with the end result?
Why did I even reply to this absolute drivel. Pretty hilarious you calling people "kids" when you can't seem to string one coherent sentence together. Quick maffs...
User was temp banned for this post.
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This is getting silly, and I've had enough. It only makes the foreign community look bad. Rifkin, PM me your paypal and I by proxy will pay the $1,500.
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Man, I didn't anticipate such a shit show.
I was hoping Rif would just take back the Unity Tax and stop punishing uninvolved players after some public pressure and then continue to solve the money issue with NoRegreT in private.
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On April 07 2018 19:25 DSK wrote:
This is getting silly, and I've had enough. It only makes the foreign community look bad. Rifkin, PM me your paypal and I by proxy will pay the $1,500.
Are you a hero?
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On April 07 2018 19:43 Musicus wrote:
Man, I didn't anticipate such a shit show.
I was hoping Rif would just take back the Unity Tax and stop punishing uninvolved players after some public pressure and then continue to solve the money issue with NoRegreT in private.
Without getting involved in the whole thing itself:
I do a lot of mediation and counceling, and I can assure you, that his reaction is one of the many options people choose when being pressured: push back, fight back. Its not very surprising to me, especially considering how he reacted in other conflicts.
What people also tend to forget a lot in forums and on the internet is, that all parties involved are just human beings with a lot of emotions. Those emotions tend to have a bigger impact on our decisions then we say out loud.
Its unfortunately never as easy as: "just stick to the facts", because the facts always get filtered by anger, sadness, and other things....
I think only big companies can get pressured through "exposing" them, because they have the money, time and muscle to act according to a certain "unattached", un-emotional logic.
But when "only" basically two people are fighting (like it seems to be), there is seldom a good way out of this without a third party getting involved to mediate (not a forum, fans, or anybody)...
Its sad to me what is happing.
I can see why you tried to act to help the players, just too bad it does not seem to work out at the moment 
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On April 07 2018 19:43 Musicus wrote:
Man, I didn't anticipate such a shit show.
I was hoping Rif would just take back the Unity Tax and stop punishing uninvolved players after some public pressure and then continue to solve the money issue with NoRegreT in private.
Stop trying to dig the dirt...
You did exactly the same on reddit, what a cancer.
User was warned for this post
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On April 07 2018 20:06 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 19:43 Musicus wrote:
Man, I didn't anticipate such a shit show.
I was hoping Rif would just take back the Unity Tax and stop punishing uninvolved players after some public pressure and then continue to solve the money issue with NoRegreT in private. Stop trying to dig the dirt... You did exactly the same on reddit, what a cancer.
Yeah my opinion does not change, regardless wether I post on TL or Reddit. Shocker.
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On April 07 2018 20:06 Lambertus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 19:43 Musicus wrote:
Man, I didn't anticipate such a shit show.
I was hoping Rif would just take back the Unity Tax and stop punishing uninvolved players after some public pressure and then continue to solve the money issue with NoRegreT in private. Without getting involved in the whole thing itself: I do a lot of mediation and counceling, and I can assure you, that his reaction is one of the many options people choose when being pressured: push back, fight back. Its not very surprising to me, especially considering how he reacted in other conflicts. What people also tend to forget a lot in forums and on the internet is, that all parties involved are just human beings with a lot of emotions. Those emotions tend to have a bigger impact on our decisions then we say out loud. Its unfortunately never as easy as: "just stick to the facts", because the facts always get filtered by anger, sadness, and other things.... I think only big companies can get pressured through "exposing" them, because they have the money, time and muscle to act according to a certain "unattached", un-emotional logic. But when "only" basically two people are fighting (like it seems to be), there is seldom a good way out of this without a third party getting involved to mediate (not a forum, fans, or anybody)... Its sad to me what is happing. I can see why you tried to act to help the players, just too bad it does not seem to work out at the moment
Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Hopefully someone in the right position steps up to mediate behind the scenes. Maybe even a Blizzard Community manager can jump in and and try to solve this issue without it going to court or some shit.
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On April 07 2018 20:24 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 20:06 Lambertus wrote:On April 07 2018 19:43 Musicus wrote:
Man, I didn't anticipate such a shit show.
I was hoping Rif would just take back the Unity Tax and stop punishing uninvolved players after some public pressure and then continue to solve the money issue with NoRegreT in private. Without getting involved in the whole thing itself: I do a lot of mediation and counceling, and I can assure you, that his reaction is one of the many options people choose when being pressured: push back, fight back. Its not very surprising to me, especially considering how he reacted in other conflicts. What people also tend to forget a lot in forums and on the internet is, that all parties involved are just human beings with a lot of emotions. Those emotions tend to have a bigger impact on our decisions then we say out loud. Its unfortunately never as easy as: "just stick to the facts", because the facts always get filtered by anger, sadness, and other things.... I think only big companies can get pressured through "exposing" them, because they have the money, time and muscle to act according to a certain "unattached", un-emotional logic. But when "only" basically two people are fighting (like it seems to be), there is seldom a good way out of this without a third party getting involved to mediate (not a forum, fans, or anybody)... Its sad to me what is happing. I can see why you tried to act to help the players, just too bad it does not seem to work out at the moment Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Hopefully someone in the right position steps up to mediate behind the scenes. Maybe even a Blizzard Community manager can jump in and and try to solve this issue without it going to court or some shit.
I love how inconsistent this forum can be. I mentioned the same idea but suggesting TL instead which I still think has enough influence to do it successfully, yet there are shitty posts like that: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/532710-basetradetv-and-noregret-disagreement-escalates?page=9#161
Blizzard won't help because it's not such a big deal for them. It's not a big enough scandal to involve them. I still think TL/Reddit staff stepping up to mediate is the right choice. TL is respected by both parties so it could work. Try it, then talk shit.
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On April 07 2018 17:32 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 17:18 fluidrone wrote:Funny, noregret shames rifkin, rifkin shames noregret... Lets be "full disclosure" clear, who "benefits" is the only question. i'd say overall no one benefits, but lets dig a bit more. What else is a kid suppose to do in front of a bully? The whole thing (like so many things) is quite "standard". This community has all the power it needs to deal with it: ignore it take steps add to it and asking for it is a right! Lets dwell into the situation: Did noregret abuse rifkin? probably !!! Did rifkin abuse all of the bttv "guests", .. probably more, no?! ... mmm here i'd like to add the following relevant words: "contract" "kickstarter" "roi" and maths. contract means more than what you kids think, some people actually get their life ruined from signing a contract (said contract can be abusive without being illegal and only a trial will say if it is) roi means shit if you got f cked in the previously specified contract, but it is the quintessential point of the whole affair (again, who gained more out of the outcome of the affair, rifkin or noregret?) maths: simply put, noregret (or whoever) exposed this to the community so that rifkin might/would "lose" more than he was prepared to lose by engaging in this "endeavor", by the mere fact that his "character exposed" would make him lose his lively hodd (viewers) As simply put, rifkin plays the same game by implying "other streamers/players" in his endeavor, thinking that his "btttv tax" will be a strong move, a move that made "someone" expose this here (on "forums"). Who will get more out of those? While i don't care about the outcome right now, i will care later.. i want to underline both of the "tactics" used! rifkin not wanting to lose versus noregret (whatever the loss is defined as) made other streamers pay for it to shame noregret noregret (or whoever) has no other way to react than to shame rifkin back .. and now here we are, forum without a move? i'd say we do have a move, a clear and swift move to each his or her own my pov: + Show Spoiler +noregret assumed rifkin would be a supporter enough to build a new house, and rifkin did his rifkin thing ..
if you study the roi and the maths it is clear that both contract signers are both satisfied,
so when rifkin tells you that all he got from this "contract/endeavor" was not good enough (you could argue he clearly lost since now he has nothing out of it) then side with him and keep watching his channel / continue to grant him his livelihood
or
imagine a situation where the roi is clearly in favor of rifkin and imagine that he wants more and that noregret doing the maths makes a power play, yes a kid power play versus a bully, but he does it and the bully calls out the bluff
then u got to call for pitchforks versus lawyers
Only things i get out of this:
glad the foreign house is not bttv property
glad some people think standing up to bullies is worth losing a lot
(someone should do a kickstarter: "reimburse the bully for me" is my advice).
Real funny how you kids still need to take lawyer/law lessons No who benefits is not the only question. You are being incredibly condescending and arrogant in your tone throughout your post. It does not help that you call others bullys/children and remark how people need lessons in law. Especially not when what you have scribbled above is barely coherent and far from correct. Please mind your tone.
Classical fluidrone, his ‘special’ posting habits give me a headache every time, better avoid reading this stuff.
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On April 07 2018 20:37 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 17:32 Shuffleblade wrote:On April 07 2018 17:18 fluidrone wrote:Funny, noregret shames rifkin, rifkin shames noregret... Lets be "full disclosure" clear, who "benefits" is the only question. i'd say overall no one benefits, but lets dig a bit more. What else is a kid suppose to do in front of a bully? The whole thing (like so many things) is quite "standard". This community has all the power it needs to deal with it: ignore it take steps add to it and asking for it is a right! Lets dwell into the situation: Did noregret abuse rifkin? probably !!! Did rifkin abuse all of the bttv "guests", .. probably more, no?! ... mmm here i'd like to add the following relevant words: "contract" "kickstarter" "roi" and maths. contract means more than what you kids think, some people actually get their life ruined from signing a contract (said contract can be abusive without being illegal and only a trial will say if it is) roi means shit if you got f cked in the previously specified contract, but it is the quintessential point of the whole affair (again, who gained more out of the outcome of the affair, rifkin or noregret?) maths: simply put, noregret (or whoever) exposed this to the community so that rifkin might/would "lose" more than he was prepared to lose by engaging in this "endeavor", by the mere fact that his "character exposed" would make him lose his lively hodd (viewers) As simply put, rifkin plays the same game by implying "other streamers/players" in his endeavor, thinking that his "btttv tax" will be a strong move, a move that made "someone" expose this here (on "forums"). Who will get more out of those? While i don't care about the outcome right now, i will care later.. i want to underline both of the "tactics" used! rifkin not wanting to lose versus noregret (whatever the loss is defined as) made other streamers pay for it to shame noregret noregret (or whoever) has no other way to react than to shame rifkin back .. and now here we are, forum without a move? i'd say we do have a move, a clear and swift move to each his or her own my pov: + Show Spoiler +noregret assumed rifkin would be a supporter enough to build a new house, and rifkin did his rifkin thing ..
if you study the roi and the maths it is clear that both contract signers are both satisfied,
so when rifkin tells you that all he got from this "contract/endeavor" was not good enough (you could argue he clearly lost since now he has nothing out of it) then side with him and keep watching his channel / continue to grant him his livelihood
or
imagine a situation where the roi is clearly in favor of rifkin and imagine that he wants more and that noregret doing the maths makes a power play, yes a kid power play versus a bully, but he does it and the bully calls out the bluff
then u got to call for pitchforks versus lawyers
Only things i get out of this:
glad the foreign house is not bttv property
glad some people think standing up to bullies is worth losing a lot
(someone should do a kickstarter: "reimburse the bully for me" is my advice).
Real funny how you kids still need to take lawyer/law lessons No who benefits is not the only question. You are being incredibly condescending and arrogant in your tone throughout your post. It does not help that you call others bullys/children and remark how people need lessons in law. Especially not when what you have scribbled above is barely coherent and far from correct. Please mind your tone. Classical fluidrone, his ‘special’ posting habits give me a headache every time, better avoid reading this stuff.
You mean classic.
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On April 07 2018 19:25 DSK wrote:
This is getting silly, and I've had enough. It only makes the foreign community look bad. Rifkin, PM me your paypal and I by proxy will pay the $1,500.
Considering that part of this debate over the team house involves community funds apparently vanishing before the end of the date it was suppose to cover I would highly advise you rethink such a gracious motion. (of course, aforementioned is alleged - and to my understanding of what has been claimed.)
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On April 07 2018 21:50 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 19:25 DSK wrote:
This is getting silly, and I've had enough. It only makes the foreign community look bad. Rifkin, PM me your paypal and I by proxy will pay the $1,500. Considering that part of this debate over the team house involves community funds apparently vanishing before the end of the date it was suppose to cover I would highly advise you rethink such a gracious motion. (of course, aforementioned is alleged - and to my understanding of what has been claimed.)
I wouldn't be so surprised if he just refuses anyway, saying Noregret has to pay it.
It's the same idea than going legal for such an amount.
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Wow, how immature can you possibly be... I guess that question is still being answered.
I'll take a second to remind everyone that an "anonymous" person (assumed by almost everyone to be BTTV/Rifkin) tipped off DankShrine about the "stolen equipment" which led to DankShrine (plausibly with good intentions, not that that matters much to me at this point) sparking the conversation with NoRegreT on the podcast/interview, putting at least a little unnecessary pressure from the community on Jake (Rifkin's intentions, if assumptions about the anon tip are correct), after causing other problems (leading more than one person to block communication with him) after doing shady things what with the Matcherino.
No serious discussion or cooperation with the person he has an issue with, obvious intent to make things more difficult for them and people around them, trying to pressure them to give into his demands (which it's very muddy as to whether or not they were ever at any point reasonable), punishing anyone affiliated with his target with no sensible justifications for it, no discussion or cooperation with the community and instead he tries to make someone a bigger target for harassment with this callous "oops" moment after his target tried multiple times to get away from him harassing them?
I don't know how else to call something "fucking bullshit" without using those two words.
*Also, I appreciate the YouTube video being uploaded for everyone after the clip was taken down, but at some point that needs to be removed as well. Or perhaps whatever important numbers in there could be blurred, idk, but there are a lot of reasons why you don't show that stuff to potentially thousands of random people around the world, right?
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On April 07 2018 22:15 AbouSV wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 21:50 -Kyo- wrote:On April 07 2018 19:25 DSK wrote:
This is getting silly, and I've had enough. It only makes the foreign community look bad. Rifkin, PM me your paypal and I by proxy will pay the $1,500. Considering that part of this debate over the team house involves community funds apparently vanishing before the end of the date it was suppose to cover I would highly advise you rethink such a gracious motion. (of course, aforementioned is alleged - and to my understanding of what has been claimed.) I wouldn't be so surprised if he just refuses anyway, saying Noregret has to pay it.
No, make Mexico pay for it!!!
..wait.. what are we talking about..?
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The only wise decision is for IEM, ESL, Blizzard to not hire rifkin and zombiegrub anymore and don't let them stream their matches.
You would not want to be associated with such people, not only are they imo bad casters, but this is not the first negative promotion for them.
They hurting the scene so much with this and I admire Scarlett and she seems to back noRegret in this. If there was something shady, she would be the first to correct noRegret and put him in his place.
Or hey maybe if they hire them, just pay them 10% less  .
User was temp banned for this post.
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On April 07 2018 23:46 Pascal1p wrote:
The only wise decision is for IEM, ESL, Blizzard to not hire rifkin and zombiegrub anymore and don't let them stream their matches.
ZG is not officially affiliated with basetrade at this point.
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so the matcherino keeps appearing over and over and shady moves.did basetradetv take the 12k ?
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On April 08 2018 00:06 omgbadbeatzlol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 23:46 Pascal1p wrote:
The only wise decision is for IEM, ESL, Blizzard to not hire rifkin and zombiegrub anymore and don't let them stream their matches. ZG is not officially affiliated with basetrade at this point.
Yes, please remember that these are the actions of BaseTradeTV/Rifkin, not other people currently or formerly associated with them/him.
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How petty must the SC2 scene as a whole seem if 2 widely recognised community figures are arguing over an amount that's probably half the average person's salary in their countries?
Surely, the game isn't in such a dire situation that 1500$ is a large amount of money for any of these prominent community figures? At least not to the point where the go on reddit and tl with it and make the sc2 scene into a laughingstock?
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EPT
