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Creager
Germany1545 Posts
Terran lategame lacks some kind of reliable splash damage to go up against lategame Zerg and Protoss air-based armies. But for Blizzard's argument regarding the prevention of mass caster build-up, what is considered "massing" them? Having to build 10+ Ghosts in TvZ to deal with Zerg's expensive lategame units is ok? Just wondering what their magic number is... | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1533 Posts
It would cut the damage output in half if you do some counter micro without nerfing Ravens into the ground. | ||
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MachineHeadx
United Kingdom7 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom6520 Posts
On March 07 2018 19:16 neutralrobot wrote: At a glance, it seems like Aligulac suggests that PvT win rates are at 50% or so now after a recent drop from P dominance. Do we think this is because of a meta shift toward ravens? Again, honest question. I don't know what to make of it. Aligulac isn't a perfect showcase of balance. At the elite level none of the good terrans seem to be doing well in TvP. Inno, Ty, Maru, byun, gumiho, alive, and special are all underperforming in the matchup. At least they were last time I checked their ratings. At the same time classic, stats, zest, dear, sOs, trap etc PvT ratings are all dramatically higher than their historical norm. I doubt that's because they all just got better | ||
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JackONeill
851 Posts
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Creager
Germany1545 Posts
On March 07 2018 21:45 JackONeill wrote: I would actually have been in favor of increasing the cost of the missile back to 125 but leaving it as it is. Agreed, also a very reasonable suggestion. | ||
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Lillekanin
Denmark191 Posts
We can all agree upon that Blizzard gave each race a Spellcaster which has an energy based AOE-spell. Blizzard gave Protoss the High-templar which cast "Storm", they gave Zerg the Infester which cast "Fungal" and they gave Terran the Raven which had Seeker missle / Anti-armor Missle. With the proposed changes they want to "remove" the AOE possibility for the Raven (which is seen in the reference at the top). Removing the Terran AOE spellcaster is actually more a redesign than a nerf. The whole idea behind giving each race an energybased AOE spellcaster will be non- existing and an imbalance will appear. What would a better direction be? - I agree that a spam-able missle is not a good design, but why not look at how fungal / storm is balanced out? The big difference between Storm+Fungal and the seeker missle(Anti-armor-missle) is the stacking of damage. Storm and fungal doesnt stack where the seeker missle(Anti-armor misssle) does. A more correct balance direction would be to make the damage of the seeker missle (Anti armor missle) unstackable. Eg. when the anti armor is enabled the unit cannot take extra dmg from a new missle. What does this solve? You can no longer spam ravens which is the current issue that blizzard is having. But with an unspamable missle then you also need to touch the parametres to make it balanced. My proposed changes would be: Anti Armor Missle 100-125 Energy Deals 50-60-75? (Same dmg range as Storm/Fungal?) Damage in X Radius -3 Armor / -1 Armor / -0 Armor(remove it) Whenever the unit is debuffed a new Missle wont affect the units at all / Make the units that got hit by the seeker orange - when they are orange they cant get hit in X time. Perhaps give it a track time again, so you can split or make a delay like on Parasitic bomb. I hope Blizzard will go in the right direction. | ||
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egrimm
Poland1091 Posts
On March 07 2018 21:59 Lillekanin wrote: We can all agree upon that Blizzard gave each race a Spellcaster which has an energy based AOE-spell. Blizzard gave Protoss the High-templar which cast "Storm", they gave Zerg the Infester which cast "Fungal" and they gave Terran the Raven which had Seeker missle / Anti-armor Missle. Isn't ghost more fitting in your description? I've always thought of HT, Infestor and Ghost as main spellcasters for each race | ||
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Mun_Su
France2034 Posts
On March 07 2018 22:15 egrimm wrote: Isn't ghost more fitting in your description? I've always thought of HT, Infestor and Ghost as main spellcasters for each race For me each race has now 2 main spellcasters, a flying and ground ones : Oracle/Raven/Viper and HT/Ghost/Infest | ||
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xongnox
504 Posts
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MrWayne
219 Posts
 As a Terran i think these changes are fine. It's probably hard to balance things when a Race is quite strong in one match up but weak in another one. I don't have strong thoughts about the Droplord but the raven change is needed imo. Maru vs Solar on Backwater at IEM Katowice was, while beeing a good game, the best example why this is needed. nerfing the dmg is the easiest way to prevent AA-missle spam. It's nice that the origami-plane gets some love too. about TvP: after watching IEM, GSL and some minor tournaments it's fair to say that Terran has still problems to play a straight up macro game vs Protoss (especially with the new raven nerf) but it's difficult to find a solution without destroying the balance in TvZ and PvZ. The solution i came up with is: reduce the widow mine cost to 50/25 (-25 min) or give it +10 extra splashdmg vs shields (40 (+35 vs shields) splash). This change will force protoss to spend more gas and chrono boost for higher tier units and tech instead of upgrades and since widow mines are almost exclusively used in TvP both of this changes won't effect other match ups all that much. another nice little change would be to get rid of the +25% vision for observer in Surveillance Mode. I'm fine with the Surveillance Mode per se but the +25% vision is just a straight up and unneeded nerf for dropplay imo. | ||
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fds
Slovenia256 Posts
Updated raven will clearly be worse unit. From my point of view it will be on similar level as sentry. So make raven cheaper (maybe 50mineral, 100gas) and remove techlab requirement. To improve terran's late game please wake up and redesign battlecrusers! Reduce attack speed, increase damage per shot and make them shoot while moving (same as Phoenix). With these buffs tactical jump and Yamato cannon need nerf. Make them share cooldown and greatly reduce jump range. While we are saving SC2, maybe also move Advanced Ballistics upgrade from techlab to Fusion Core. Yes, I'm a Terran player.  | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada432 Posts
Terran changes: Raven: Shredder missile -5 damage (25 dmg per missile) auto turret +1 range (So 2 range) Liberator aa +1 range, +1 damage. The liberator has to get too close imo to fight outside of sieging and while I do think it mostly should be used in its siege mode I think its air fighting power is also something that could be explored further. I think giving it more range will allow it to fight units a bit more actively without things just escaping it or giving it more room to maybe kite or fight in safety. As for the damage I think its current AA damage won't really make a big big difference vs something like mutas (Unless heavily upgraded) for the 1 damage to impact things in an overpowered way but I do think it could help it in fights. Viking +10 hp buff (from this patch not an extra) additionally not sure how to word this but I think changing the firing speed of the viking to match the banshee would be a good change. I say this in the sense that the viking would be able to both shoot and move without having to add a stop within its pattern of moving and shooting (move stop shot move etc) It would also let the viking fire slightly faster which would yes increase its DPS but only to a point where it can kite other air units slightly better Battlecruisers ground range +1 (Maybe 2) and slight movement speed increase as well as turning speed increase. When say turning speed increase I think the battlecruiser as a unit is a little bit clunky in its rotation speed when firing and having to turn. Additionally I think adding some more movement speed will make it slightly more mobile and active on the map since most people want to save the teleport for defensive uses (like saving the unit) rather than offensive additionally I think an increase to its ground range will let it fight ground units from further away kind of like how the carrier and shoot units further away in a safer spot Protoss changes: Carrier interceptor count lowered from 8 to 6 but each interceptor would become 25% stronger. This would mean carriers would reach a max out faster on interceptors and each one would be stronger but splash damage would affect them more and things like losing them to widows would make a bigger impact as less of them would remain alive. Also I am not quite sure if interceptors have an armor tag but I think they should become light units or have a light tag if they don't already. anyways these are just my thoughts on potential changes not sure if they're great or not but they are suggestions I suppose | ||
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seemsgood
4181 Posts
On March 07 2018 20:15 Lokxpr wrote: Yes the fact that toss can outmacro and outupgrade the terran earlier in the game would be an issue, but late game TvP is not bad at all, terran has all the tools to beat protoss. I figured out that this upgrade advantage is blizzard's intention to give more opportunities for ravens being used in mid game.But we all have answer does it work or not. | ||
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Musicus
Germany22616 Posts
On March 07 2018 09:27 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Nerfing nydus wouldn't improve Protoss opening diversity one wit. And 16 ling drops are just as all-in as the others when you have barely any drones. You are right, maybe allowing protoss to be able to scout effectively without a stargate would be better than removing ling drops though. I'd just hate it, if every game is go up to 70 workers without any interaction again and if zerg just has to play defensive every game. | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3132 Posts
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neverexpand
16 Posts
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geokilla
Canada7081 Posts
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seemsgood
4181 Posts
On March 07 2018 20:14 RoflStomped wrote: It seems the "balance team" just don't know what to do with the raven. It's undergone so many changes since the major shift last year. They seem to have tunnel vision when it comes to creating an effective late game option without aggravating the community. You build science vessels to counter zerg defilers, you build science vessels to counter protoss arbiters. But you don't build those units just to fuck everything up. The raven fails to serve that role in both match up because now the others casters have became stronger to the point they are able to counter thier own counter too.So as long as ravens still can't cast interference matrix safely without being get rekt by feedbacks, PB, fungals and abducts, AAM is the only skill worth to use. | ||
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neverexpand
16 Posts
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