EPTHow long before you start getting 'close games'? - Page 2
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WGT-Baal
France3346 Posts
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alpenrahm
Germany628 Posts
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Sundr
34 Posts
On January 26 2018 22:43 Dangermousecatdog wrote: This sounds one of those typical "I can't out of XYZ Rank because all everyone knows how to do is cheese and rush me at my rank". Everybody below my rank is a noob. Everybody above my rank is a god. Everybody else in my rank has no idea of how to macro. Once I get out of Plat, when everybody stops cheesing and rushing me, I can play a proper macro game as intended. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the higher the rank you go, the better the cheeses and Please, no need to exaggerate. To all-in/cheese properly, it still takes up a lot of skill, and on another note, it wasn't complaint, just things I pointed out from "my limited experience", doesn't make it truth of course. And no, I can't properly play macro games, since I'm forced to go for early aggression every single game, while going macro worked when I still was in ~gold. It literally comes down to who rushes first. Every time me or my opponent went for macro, it didn't end up well for either. With second exp early on, loss worth of production even in couple of units means life and death at the given moment, and it is usually easy to stomp opponent with additional exp and less units. I haven't played in late-diamond/grandmaster levels, but in numerous replays I've seen, it's just complete rarity to see cheese/all-ins, more safe opening and much more complex macro games. That's just what I've seen though, can't speak from first-hand experience in these skill brackets. Builds you can come across in Spawning Tool are all viable and often seen well executed on this level, while in plat I've seen maybe 1-2 builds being viable tops from entire list. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10666 Posts
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xenonn40
United States282 Posts
As a lot of people have mentioned, below mid diamond level, everyone has one or more huge gaps in their play, and if you play an opponent who happens to take advantage of those gaps, likely just by luck, the game will not look close. Still, even at higher level, if you make a bad mistake, such as not paying attention to the minimap and being out of position or not defending a drop, the game can just end right there. Part of the reason many pro games appear back and forth is these players have very good map awareness, and rarely get caught out like this. And when it happens, it is usually when they are in position to attack the opponent causing a base race. | ||
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xenonn40
United States282 Posts
On January 27 2018 03:49 Sundr wrote: Please, no need to exaggerate. To all-in/cheese properly, it still takes up a lot of skill, and on another note, it wasn't complaint, just things I pointed out from "my limited experience", doesn't make it truth of course. And no, I can't properly play macro games, since I'm forced to go for early aggression every single game, while going macro worked when I still was in ~gold. It literally comes down to who rushes first. Every time me or my opponent went for macro, it didn't end up well for either. With second exp early on, loss worth of production even in couple of units means life and death at the given moment, and it is usually easy to stomp opponent with additional exp and less units. I haven't played in late-diamond/grandmaster levels, but in numerous replays I've seen, it's just complete rarity to see cheese/all-ins, more safe opening and much more complex macro games. That's just what I've seen though, can't speak from first-hand experience in these skill brackets. Builds you can come across in Spawning Tool are all viable and often seen well executed on this level, while in plat I've seen maybe 1-2 builds being viable tops from entire list. As a low masters random/terran player on NA, there are a lot of cheesy players in high diamond/low masters, but their cheese is refined, and they have good transitions, so the game often transitions into a macro game. There is also a lot of "economy cheese" where you play super greedy because chances are your opponent is also playing greedy. Most of the builds you see posted are not econ cheeses though, they are legitimately strong against all play styles. The reason people at high levels macro is because that is what gives them the best chance to win. These builds beat allins by adapting to them. When you play any build that is not allin yourself, you need to have a decision tree, where if scout your opponent doing X, then you do Y. The posted build is the branch you should do against the "high level" meta, but you need to be prepared to adjust if your opponent is not playing the meta. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
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Kafka777
361 Posts
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discomute
4 Posts
As well as SC2 nature, my inexperience, and playing off-peak, it could also be to do with how I play. Having some experience and seeing tutorials, I know what I am supposed to do. Some games I am on (knocked off a gold 2 once) and most games I'm not (lost last three by loads to 2 or 3 silver). Anyway I will persist for a bit and see how I go. Still got Z and P campaigns too.  | ||
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DSh1
292 Posts
On January 27 2018 03:49 Sundr wrote: Please, no need to exaggerate. To all-in/cheese properly, it still takes up a lot of skill, and on another note, it wasn't complaint, just things I pointed out from "my limited experience", doesn't make it truth of course. And no, I can't properly play macro games, since I'm forced to go for early aggression every single game, while going macro worked when I still was in ~gold. It literally comes down to who rushes first. Every time me or my opponent went for macro, it didn't end up well for either. With second exp early on, loss worth of production even in couple of units means life and death at the given moment, and it is usually easy to stomp opponent with additional exp and less units. I think there is really no need for early aggression. If you say you lose to the other player attacking into you then just make the same amount of units you do for your "aggressive game" and then sit back. Send one drop maybe if you notice, your opponent is being greedy, but it's okay to just turtle and go for late game aka macro game. Just because you don't expand doesn't mean you have to get aggressive. If not at highest lvl of play if you just avoid the things you die instantly to and prolong the game. There will be plenty of opportunities to win the game even if you are behind and it will be back and forth (assuming your MMR is roughly correct). Your opponents will make mistakes necessarily. If you get cheesed, then the game is over quickly, but then you can just start another game. As I said earlier it gets better at higher lvls with the quantitiy of "cheesers" that are either auto-win or lose. At higher lvls these players also have some kind of transition when you don't die instantly to their cheese/timing. | ||
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Sundr
34 Posts
On January 27 2018 08:21 DSh1 wrote: I think there is really no need for early aggression. If you say you lose to the other player attacking into you then just make the same amount of units you do for your "aggressive game" and then sit back. Send one drop maybe if you notice, your opponent is being greedy, but it's okay to just turtle and go for late game aka macro game. Just because you don't expand doesn't mean you have to get aggressive. If not at highest lvl of play if you just avoid the things you die instantly to and prolong the game. There will be plenty of opportunities to win the game even if you are behind and it will be back and forth (assuming your MMR is roughly correct). Your opponents will make mistakes necessarily. If you get cheesed, then the game is over quickly, but then you can just start another game. As I said earlier it gets better at higher lvls with the quantitiy of "cheesers" that are either auto-win or lose. At higher lvls these players also have some kind of transition when you don't die instantly to their cheese/timing. Well, didn't say I was losing, I was just stating stagnation in build orders. Example of very common match for me: We both go rush without early exp, our armies of somewhat equal strength collide near someones base or at specific point on the map. After few early skirmishes, we both transition into ordinary mid-late game with harassment, predictable unit techs and slug it out. Sometimes, if one of us messed up in micro and lost too much in early skirmish gets stomped, but the problem is that you always expect rush or cheese of same 1-2 possible builds and never can go wrong about it. Such things as surprise factor of non-meta builds, different types of openings are simply non-existent from my current experience, because dedicating to early aggression is the only way to defend from same of opponent and chance to win the game. | ||
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paxconsciente
Belgium91 Posts
Good news is there are a few community discords and things where you can find new players, although a bit less now days cuz SCRM wasn't very impressive to newcomers and most didn't stay long. | ||
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