EPTThis ability is one of the few cases where I'd say it's too frustrating to play against to keep in the game.
Community Update - January 12th - Page 7
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Vortun
42 Posts
This ability is one of the few cases where I'd say it's too frustrating to play against to keep in the game. | ||
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Terran do not need the auto-turret but they a counter to mass Carrier/Tempest/HT and BroodLord/Corruptor. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15956 Posts
On January 13 2018 22:13 MockHamill wrote: It would be better if they removed the anti-armor missile and replaced it with seeker missile instead. Terran do not need the auto-turret but they a counter to mass Carrier/Tempest/HT and BroodLord/Corruptor. This is actually a good suggestion. Raven with interference matrix, Repair drone and Seeker missile would be very interesting. Anti-armor missile seems very weird anyway. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
But, please, show some love for bio play (and players). A small buff to bio openings would be appreciated, like, reducing the time needed to research stim then shield (or merge the two ), witch actually is like infinite. Also, i feel sorry for casual toss players having to learn yet another new rhythm to kite with stalkers. Finally, the auto-turrets comeback is welcome for the balance, but still suxx design-wise. The issue is queen anti-air range, (buffed for libs) making auto-turret the only safe&efficient early TvZ bio-harass. (like, why the f**k you would get a banshee to get 5 times less kills, use 5 times more APMs and still maybe loose it... ). Maybe some intelligent, non TvT-breaking, buff to banshee could do the job ? Something to make it less fragile vs queens ? ... More armor ? very slight regen for first hit ? bit more speed with cloack ? better acceleration ? dunno. | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On January 13 2018 23:46 xongnox wrote: Globally, good direction of changes. But, please, show some love for bio play (and players). A small buff to bio openings would be appreciated, like, reducing the time needed to research stim then shield (or merge the two ), witch actually is like infinite. Also, i feel sorry for casual toss players having to learn yet another new rhythm to kite with stalkers. Finally, the auto-turrets comeback is welcome for the balance, but still suxx design-wise. The issue is queen anti-air range, (buffed for libs) making auto-turret the only safe&efficient early TvZ bio-harass. (like, why the f**k you would get a banshee to get 5 times less kills, use 5 times more APMs and still maybe loose it... ). Maybe some intelligent, non TvT-breaking, buff to banshee could do the job ? Something to make it less fragile vs queens ? ... More armor ? very slight regen for first hit ? bit more speed with cloack ? better acceleration ? dunno. I feel bad for Gemini who has to go back and change all of his protoss build of the week's because changes keep getting made to chrono, stalkers huge nerf, ect. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On January 13 2018 19:53 Tyrhanius wrote: Zerg deals with every air pressure on early game with one unit, queen. And honestly, they do quite well for that, so let me laugh when you tell me that cyclon anti-air is ridiculous... It's completly fine, but of course when terran doesn't have a super OP unit they always pretend they're "weak"... How can you tell that, 30 dps vs ground, 50 vs armored, shoot while moving, 180 hp, dps of a queen with 15 tracking range lel. So yeah, you're a whiner. I did not post the OP. I did not whine about Cyclone AA being a "complete joke." Click on the "Show nested quote" line and reread the original post that started this entire conversation. See the name there? It is not pvsnp. It is Psychobabas. I did not enter this conversation until you compared Cyclone AA to Queen AA and suggested Queens needed a buff. I called that a "horrendous analogy," because Cyclones are not Queens. "Cyclone is not Queen" is the entire point of my post. Nothing about balance, or about nerfs, or buffs, or whatever. Just the fact that two units in the game are completely different, fulfilling completely different roles in completely different situations. Zero whine. Go accuse somebody else. | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On January 14 2018 03:59 pvsnp wrote: I did not post the OP. I did not whine about Cyclone AA being a "complete joke." Click on the "Show nested quote" line and reread the original post that started this entire conversation. See the name there? It is not pvsnp. It is Psychobabas. I did not enter this conversation until you compared Cyclone AA to Queen AA and suggested Queens needed a buff. I called that a "horrendous analogy," because Cyclones are not Queens. "Cyclone is not Queen" is the entire point of my post. Nothing about balance, or about nerfs, or buffs, or whatever. Just the fact that two units in the game are completely different, fulfilling completely different roles in completely different situations. Zero whine. Go accuse somebody else. lol User was warned for this post | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Lmao User was warned for this post | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
Funny thing is that this change will actually make the raven weaker. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 14 2018 08:34 JackONeill wrote: So they replace repair drone with autoturret instead of PDD (which is MUCH MORE needed for the raven to fill its role). Riiight. Funny thing is that this change will actually make the raven weaker. Do you even play this game?!? The repair drone is mostly useless whereas the auto-turret is a very powerful harass tool. How on earth does this make the raven weaker? | ||
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
On January 13 2018 12:47 Boggyb wrote: Zergling runbys are even less skill than Hellions or Adepts. Sick dude, you ignore all i wrote, reply to 1 phrase and without any arguments. Come talk again when ling runbys kill half mineral line in 1 shot and can ignore any static defense. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On January 14 2018 08:49 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Do you even play this game?!? The repair drone is mostly useless whereas the auto-turret is a very powerful harass tool. How on earth does this make the raven weaker? You're underestimating the power of massing repair drones. 2 repair drones per raven when you have high HP units is very strong. That was pretty much the only use of the raven in the late game. Now don't get me wrong i've ranted forever on how terrible the repair drone is design-wise, but it's stronger than the auto turret ; and more importantly, the PDD is still lacking. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 14 2018 09:23 JackONeill wrote: You're underestimating the power of massing repair drones. 2 repair drones per raven when you have high HP units is very strong. That was pretty much the only use of the raven in the late game. Now don't get me wrong i've ranted forever on how terrible the repair drone is design-wise, but it's stronger than the auto turret ; and more importantly, the PDD is still lacking. Funny how every single pro player disagrees with you entirely. Auto-turrets were fantastic harass which usually got a handful of drone kills in a game. Repair drones have some fringe use in the late game and repair at the rate of 2.5 SCVs. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
i dont think people realize how good 6 seconds already is. 10 seconds vs protoss is insanity especially for the energy cost. stalker... id need to play with first to have a full opinion on, disruptor obviously needs a change as no1 is using it at all, adepts ? not sure they really need a change, happy about the hydra change. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On January 14 2018 03:59 pvsnp wrote: I did not post the OP. I did not whine about Cyclone AA being a "complete joke." Click on the "Show nested quote" line and reread the original post that started this entire conversation. See the name there? It is not pvsnp. It is Psychobabas. I did not enter this conversation until you compared Cyclone AA to Queen AA and suggested Queens needed a buff. I called that a "horrendous analogy," because Cyclones are not Queens. "Cyclone is not Queen" is the entire point of my post. Nothing about balance, or about nerfs, or buffs, or whatever. Just the fact that two units in the game are completely different, fulfilling completely different roles in completely different situations. Zero whine. Go accuse somebody else. Oh sorry you're used to do some many posts like these i haven't seen for once it's not yours. Still, cyclon isn't queen remains a stupid argument... Hey, ultras with 8 armors are fine, they're not marines, the two units in the game are completly different. See ? It's a stupid way to argue. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On January 14 2018 11:02 Tyrhanius wrote: Oh sorry you're used to do some many posts like these i haven't seen for once it's not yours. Still, cyclon isn't queen remains a stupid argument... Hey, ultras with 8 armors are fine, they're not marines, the two units in the game are completly different. See ? It's a stupid way to argue. No problem, I usually assume Zerg whine comes from you too. The only thing stupid about my argument is how you are trying to apply it. Proposing a Queen AA buff after OP complained about Cyclone AA makes no sense. Because they are completely disconnected in that context. Whether or not Cyclone AA should be buffed has absolutely nothing to do with how similar its AA DPS is with Queen AA DPS, because the interaction of “Cylcone vs air unit" is completely disconnected from the interaction of “Queen vs air unit." The fact that neither Cyclones nor Queens are air units means the "Cyclone vs Queen" interaction has nothing to do with the conversation. What I said has nothing to do with balance. It wasn’t a justification for a buff/nerf, it has no bearing on whether or not Cyclones should actually be buffed/nerfed or not. I was just pointing out that Queens don’t belong in that conversation, so leaving them out is logical. Ultras and Marines are completely different units, that’s true. But buffing Ultra armor to 8 will have a direct impact on the “Ultra vs Marine” interaction. So the fact that they are completely different units doesn’t matter here, because they interact directly and buffing one is an indirect nerf to the other. Marines absolutely belong in that conversation, so leaving them out is stupid. Simply put: I said Cyclone AA can never hit Queens ---> Leave Queens out of this (Logical) You said Ultras hit Marines ---> Leave Marines out of this (Stupid) | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 14 2018 10:06 -Kyo- wrote: 10 seconds? i dont think people realize how good 6 seconds already is. 10 seconds vs protoss is insanity especially for the energy cost. stalker... id need to play with first to have a full opinion on, disruptor obviously needs a change as no1 is using it at all, adepts ? not sure they really need a change, happy about the hydra change. That's a good point though I think TvT is a bigger concern than TvP when it comes to this ability. Being able to throw down 4 Interference Matrix just annihilates siege lines, drops etc, and causes the match-up to be all about the raven which isn't great imo. Especially with auto-turrets coming back it all seems rather unhealthy. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On January 14 2018 09:25 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Funny how every single pro player disagrees with you entirely. Auto-turrets were fantastic harass which usually got a handful of drone kills in a game. Repair drones have some fringe use in the late game and repair at the rate of 2.5 SCVs. Quoting pro opinions doesn't work like that buddy. Nice try though. And if you don't get how strong the repair drone is (even though it's badly designed), i'm thinking you're the one not playing this game. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 14 2018 18:16 JackONeill wrote: Quoting pro opinions doesn't work like that buddy. Nice try though. And if you don't get how strong the repair drone is (even though it's badly designed), i'm thinking you're the one not playing this game. Ravens and auto-turret harass used to be the go-to opening in TvZ. You saw them basically every game. Whereas repair drones are barely ever seen. If you think repair drones are so strong why don't pros ever use them? Not sure why I'm even bothering to reply to someone as divorced from reality as you are. | ||
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