Day 2 of the GSL Season 1 Qualifiers concluded with good news for foreigner fans as alongside Scarlett, SortOf and NoRegreT joined her in Code S!
Bad news for SpeCial though as he failed to make it through his bracket falling to RagnaroK and KeeN in his bid to make Code S.
ByuN reappeared on day 2 of the qualifiers. JYP confirmed he was sick and was suffering from a heavy cold which was why he missed day 1.This proved little hindrance though as he overcame MMA 2-0 to take a spot in Code S.
On December 27 2017 19:51 showstealer1829 wrote: Fair go to him but the fact that NoRegreT making Code S again just proves the joke that the region lock has made of the Korean scene
It was definitely the region lock. I've heard Apollo personally persuaded Life and Bbyong to match fix and KeSPA to abbandon SC2. Strangled proleague with his own bare hands.
On December 27 2017 19:51 showstealer1829 wrote: Fair go to him but the fact that NoRegreT making Code S again just proves the joke that the region lock has made of the Korean scene
It was definitely the region lock. I've heard Apollo personally persuaded Life and Bbyong to match fix and KeSPA to abbandon SC2. Strangled proleague with his own bare hands.
You jest, but considering Apollo's ardent defense a lot of people might find that believable
On December 27 2017 21:35 Phredxor wrote: Scummy retired players coming in and beating far superior and more deserving players like Cure. Truly the darkest timeline.
BurlaCzech has not retired. And he actually helped Cure to advance! He even did not appear at the second day today so that Cure was not disadvantaged by the repeated match curse.
On December 27 2017 22:22 DieuCure wrote: Bracket luck is the only thing that matters, it s disgusting imo.
even though i feel that region lock should apply to gsl as well, it should not diminish NoRegret's achievement at all.
Ya getting into ro32 once can be taken lightly but getting into it twice when many other players couldn't manage it deserves some recognition.
If he had defeated those korean players to take their place, then he deserve it.
Bracket luck or not.
Well, to be fair, a number of foreigners are essentially living there, so it's not like they're qualifying online and then going back home.
Also, noregret only had to beat Patience and Has, which I think is definitely good, but I feel like a number of foreigners there could bear Patience and Has.
On December 27 2017 19:51 showstealer1829 wrote: Fair go to him but the fact that NoRegreT making Code S again just proves the joke that the region lock has made of the Korean scene
It was definitely the region lock. I've heard Apollo personally persuaded Life and Bbyong to match fix and KeSPA to abbandon SC2. Strangled proleague with his own bare hands.
Wow...had no idea. Always thought he was such a nice guy.
On December 27 2017 19:51 showstealer1829 wrote: Fair go to him but the fact that NoRegreT making Code S again just proves the joke that the region lock has made of the Korean scene
It was definitely the region lock. I've heard Apollo personally persuaded Life and Bbyong to match fix and KeSPA to abbandon SC2. Strangled proleague with his own bare hands.
On December 27 2017 22:22 DieuCure wrote: Bracket luck is the only thing that matters, it s disgusting imo.
You are looking at just a fragment of a competition. The overall format has to compromise between accurate rankings and number of games played. With a limited number of games, the format has to choose which part of its ranking it wants to be most accurate. Of course, it has to make sure the top ranks are the most accurate. So the accuracy of top 32 and beyond is what suffers the most in the compromise. But quadruple elimination is pretty forgiving. You cannot fail to make the top 32 without at least four people defeating you. Theoretically you could be the 5th best player in the tournament and not make the top 32, but it's very unlikely. The players who make goals of top 32 or top 16 have to accept the fact that the format is not designed for their goals to be totally meaningful.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
When foreigners just have to fly, remember how long it took to TRUE.
You're a supporter of the death of the GSL, only because, at one time, the foreigners were not protected. And according to you, great bright spirit, the Koreans have to pay for this time ...
On December 28 2017 05:34 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I'm still just kind of shocked that Major didn't make it. He seemed like an guaranteed qualifier to me
Weird yes. Bracket was pretty good on the second day as well.
On December 27 2017 19:51 showstealer1829 wrote: Fair go to him but the fact that NoRegreT making Code S again just proves the joke that the region lock has made of the Korean scene
It was definitely the region lock. I've heard Apollo personally persuaded Life and Bbyong to match fix and KeSPA to abbandon SC2. Strangled proleague with his own bare hands.
Wow...had no idea. Always thought he was such a nice guy.
So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That might indeed be fair, but it would only exacerbate the inequality inherent in region-locking. As it stands we have a theoretically fair but unequal system, which is made unfair by the loophole of foreigners living in Korea.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote fairness, but by its very definition it is not equal.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
EDIT: Fixed the confusion between definitions of "fair" and "equal"
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
I think that on a conceptual level of "fair" and "equal," context has to be taken into account. The system we had with no region lock was neither fair nor equal because the context of Koreans having the system and the culture to produce better players created an unequal and unfair competitive advantage for just a blanket completely open tournament scene.
I would posit that what is fair and equal depends on the context in which we are talking fairness and equality.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
I think that on a conceptual level of "fair" and "equal," context has to be taken into account.
I just edited my post because I mixed up the definitions of "fair" and "equal."
Fair meaning that everyone gets what they need and equal that everyone gets the same.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
I think that on a conceptual level of "fair" and "equal," context has to be taken into account.
I just edited my post because I mixed up the definitions of "fair" and "equal."
Fair meaning that everyone gets what they need and equal that everyone gets the same.
For instance with affirmative action, the debate is between equal opportunity or equal fairness, but I would say that the two concepts are interlinked.
If something is fair, does that mean that something is unequal? Or if something is equal, does that mean that something is unfair?
With the Korean scene, we have the unique problem of having an inferior lower scene but a massively superior upper scene. Whereas for the foreigners, there's a steady range of okay to good to great foreigners.
So what is equal and fair to the top of the Korean scene is not equal and fair to the bottom of the Korean scene.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
The system we had with no region lock was neither fair nor equal because the context of Koreans having the system and the culture to produce better players created an unequal and unfair competitive advantage for just a blanket completely open tournament scene.
I would posit that what is fair and equal depends on the context in which we are talking fairness and equality.
The context here I think is what lies within the reasonable capacity of an individual player to influence through their own agency. It is unreasonable to punish players based on their country of birth, something over which they have no control.
That being the case, the old system was indeed equal because all players regardless of background had identical opportunity. However, it was unfair due to the inherent advantages of Korean progaming infrastructure.
Region-lock swapped this by making the system fair but unequal, in that foreigners received help (Koreans were banned) which allowed the foreign scene to develop, but at the cost of inequality–treating players differently based on their country of origin.
Region-lock then became both unfair and unequal in the specific case of foreigners living in Korea. Players like Scarlett, Major, etc, are effectively exploiting the best of both worlds by both playing in GSL like the Koreans and playing in WCS events like foreigners.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
I think that on a conceptual level of "fair" and "equal," context has to be taken into account.
I just edited my post because I mixed up the definitions of "fair" and "equal."
Fair meaning that everyone gets what they need and equal that everyone gets the same.
For instance with affirmative action, the debate is between equal opportunity or equal fairness, but I would say that the two concepts are interlinked.
If something is fair, does that mean that something is unequal? Or if something is equal, does that mean that something is unfair?
With the Korean scene, we have the unique problem of having an inferior lower scene but a massively superior upper scene. Whereas for the foreigners, there's a steady range of okay to good to great foreigners.
So what is equal and fair to the top of the Korean scene is not equal and fair to the bottom of the Korean scene.
Fairness is not inherently unequal, nor vice versa. At least in an abstract sense.
Real life, however, is both unfair and unequal by its very nature. In an artificial competitive environment like university admissions or professional gaming, either fairness or equality can be enforced (to a reasonable extent) but at the cost of the inequality or unfairness, respectively.
What do you mean by "equal fairness?" I am not familiar with the term.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
The system we had with no region lock was neither fair nor equal because the context of Koreans having the system and the culture to produce better players created an unequal and unfair competitive advantage for just a blanket completely open tournament scene.
I would posit that what is fair and equal depends on the context in which we are talking fairness and equality.
The context here I think is what lies within the reasonable capacity of an individual player to influence through their own agency. It is unreasonable to punish players based on their country of birth, something over which they have no control.
That being the case, the old system was indeed equal because all players regardless of background had identical opportunity. However, it was unfair due to the inherent advantages of Korean progaming infrastructure.
Region-lock swapped this by making the system fair but unequal, in that foreigners received help (Koreans were banned) which allowed the foreign scene to develop, but at the cost of inequality–treating players differently based on their country of origin.
Region-lock then became both unfair and unequal in the specific case of foreigners living in Korea. Players like Scarlett, Major, etc, are effectively exploiting the best of both worlds by both playing in GSL like the Koreans and playing in WCS events like foreigners.
I would argue that the old scene was both unfair and unequal. Based on their locations of birth, people born in Korea intrinsically had a greater opportunity because of the GSL and because of their culture, which fostered the gaming mentality and attitude. Also, their ladder was stronger.
EDIT: I think you could also make the argument that TRUE exploits the same opportunity by competing in both Korea and in the WCS.
I actually forgot the two terms that people used. It was equal opportunity and something else...
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
The system we had with no region lock was neither fair nor equal because the context of Koreans having the system and the culture to produce better players created an unequal and unfair competitive advantage for just a blanket completely open tournament scene.
I would posit that what is fair and equal depends on the context in which we are talking fairness and equality.
The context here I think is what lies within the reasonable capacity of an individual player to influence through their own agency. It is unreasonable to punish players based on their country of birth, something over which they have no control.
That being the case, the old system was indeed equal because all players regardless of background had identical opportunity. However, it was unfair due to the inherent advantages of Korean progaming infrastructure.
Region-lock swapped this by making the system fair but unequal, in that foreigners received help (Koreans were banned) which allowed the foreign scene to develop, but at the cost of inequality–treating players differently based on their country of origin.
Region-lock then became both unfair and unequal in the specific case of foreigners living in Korea. Players like Scarlett, Major, etc, are effectively exploiting the best of both worlds by both playing in GSL like the Koreans and playing in WCS events like foreigners.
I would argue that the old scene was both unfair and unequal. Based on their locations of birth, people born in Korea intrinsically had a greater opportunity because of the GSL and because of their culture, which fostered the gaming mentality and attitude. Also, their ladder was stronger.
I actually forgot the two terms that people used. It was equal opportunity and something else...
The terms I am familiar with are "equal opportunity" and "equal outcome," which I have referred to as "fair" and "equal" in this conversation, respectively. Mostly because the latter two are shorter and thus easier to type many times.
I understand the unfairness, but why was the old system unequal? Everybody had equal access to tournaments, is that not the definition of equality? It's true that the training situations (Korean vs foreigner) themselves were unequal, but in this context of tournament access, that is included within the definition of "fairness.".
True forfeited his Ro32 spot after moving to the US, so he has not exploited the same loophole as Scarlett/Major/etc. As to whether he potentially could exploit that loophole, I really don't know. If he could though, then yes, he would be in the same position.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
The system we had with no region lock was neither fair nor equal because the context of Koreans having the system and the culture to produce better players created an unequal and unfair competitive advantage for just a blanket completely open tournament scene.
I would posit that what is fair and equal depends on the context in which we are talking fairness and equality.
The context here I think is what lies within the reasonable capacity of an individual player to influence through their own agency. It is unreasonable to punish players based on their country of birth, something over which they have no control.
That being the case, the old system was indeed equal because all players regardless of background had identical opportunity. However, it was unfair due to the inherent advantages of Korean progaming infrastructure.
Region-lock swapped this by making the system fair but unequal, in that foreigners received help (Koreans were banned) which allowed the foreign scene to develop, but at the cost of inequality–treating players differently based on their country of origin.
Region-lock then became both unfair and unequal in the specific case of foreigners living in Korea. Players like Scarlett, Major, etc, are effectively exploiting the best of both worlds by both playing in GSL like the Koreans and playing in WCS events like foreigners.
I would argue that the old scene was both unfair and unequal. Based on their locations of birth, people born in Korea intrinsically had a greater opportunity because of the GSL and because of their culture, which fostered the gaming mentality and attitude. Also, their ladder was stronger.
I actually forgot the two terms that people used. It was equal opportunity and something else...
The terms I am familiar with are "equal opportunity" and "equal outcome," which I have referred to as "fair" and "equal" in this conversation, respectively. Mostly because the latter two are shorter and thus easier to type many times.
Ah, then I would say that with regards to the top Koreans, the situation is both fair and equal because foreigners are not being completely wiped all the time, and the number of competitions is similar. I think 5 to 6.
However, the amateur Korean scene is being destroyed because they can neither compete with mid level foreigners nor their top level countrymen.
Edit: unequal because Koreans could make a living and most foreigners could not. When only the top Koreans and even mid Koreans are winning, this means all the money is going to the Koreans. Slowly, over time, the money all goes towards the Koreans at the expense of the other regions.
On December 28 2017 03:15 deacon.frost wrote: I will write it. I'm salty AF because 3 foreigners took places for 3 ro32 material Koreans WHO CANNOT ATTEND ABROAD to try their luck there.
I don't care how. I'm just pissed. No matter the fact that Maru and $O$ made it.
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
The system we had with no region lock was neither fair nor equal because the context of Koreans having the system and the culture to produce better players created an unequal and unfair competitive advantage for just a blanket completely open tournament scene.
I would posit that what is fair and equal depends on the context in which we are talking fairness and equality.
The context here I think is what lies within the reasonable capacity of an individual player to influence through their own agency. It is unreasonable to punish players based on their country of birth, something over which they have no control.
That being the case, the old system was indeed equal because all players regardless of background had identical opportunity. However, it was unfair due to the inherent advantages of Korean progaming infrastructure.
Region-lock swapped this by making the system fair but unequal, in that foreigners received help (Koreans were banned) which allowed the foreign scene to develop, but at the cost of inequality–treating players differently based on their country of origin.
Region-lock then became both unfair and unequal in the specific case of foreigners living in Korea. Players like Scarlett, Major, etc, are effectively exploiting the best of both worlds by both playing in GSL like the Koreans and playing in WCS events like foreigners.
I would argue that the old scene was both unfair and unequal. Based on their locations of birth, people born in Korea intrinsically had a greater opportunity because of the GSL and because of their culture, which fostered the gaming mentality and attitude. Also, their ladder was stronger.
I actually forgot the two terms that people used. It was equal opportunity and something else...
The terms I am familiar with are "equal opportunity" and "equal outcome," which I have referred to as "fair" and "equal" in this conversation, respectively. Mostly because the latter two are shorter and thus easier to type many times.
Ah, then I would say that with regards to the top Koreans, the situation is both fair and equal because foreigners are not being completely wiped all the time, and the number of competitions is similar. I think 5 to 6.
However, the amateur Korean scene is being destroyed because they can neither compete with mid level foreigners nor their top level countrymen.
Edit: unequal because Koreans could make a living and most foreigners could not. When only the top Koreans and even mid Koreans are winning, this means all the money is going to the Koreans. Slowly, over time, the money all goes towards the Koreans at the expense of the other regions.
Are you referring to the current (region-locked) situation? If so, I would contend that it is unequal because they lack the same access to tournaments as foreign players.
I agree that yes, that is one reason that the amateur Korean scene is dying/dead, but I would tend to think that there are larger ones (namely, the overall lack of Korean interest/$$$ in SC2, which itself has a bunch of reasons).
You are speaking of the monetary outcome, which is obviously of great importance to the players, but I was speaking purely about the competitive outcome. How the players themselves perform in the competition has no bearing on the equality of the competition itself.
It should be obvious by now, but just to be clear I'm arguing purely with regard to theoretics and not at all about the realistic implications of region-locking (which is its own large conversation).
Sure they can. Just obtain a visa in any of the WCS regions and live there. For the longest time, that's what foreigners had to do to be the best and survive in the SC2 environment. Foreigners would come and train in Korea.
So when the Korean opportunities are more limited, they should have to make the effort to go to a WCS region and live there and see if they can succeed.
Honestly, if they can't make it here, I seriously doubt they would do that well in any other region.
Getting a visa isn't that easy... you can't just be like "Well hop on a flight to America where you know no english and have no connections whatsoever- no visa? Just get it"
They don't have to get a visa to America; they can get a visa to anywhere in Europe or any other WCS region.
See, people expected this of foreigners a couple years ago in WoL and HotS. Everyone knew that if you wanted to do well, you trained in Korea. Regardless of the difficulties of doing this, these were the expectations. Right now, the foreigners who qualified for the GSL are currently living there, and many have lived there for several months.
Therefore, I see nothing wrong if this is what is expected of potential Korean players who want more opportunities outside the GSL. By its nature, the GSL is region locked by the fact that you have to live there for the duration of when you compete. So if you want an "easier" region (America or Europe or SEA), then you should live there.
And the thing is, my opinion may seem harsh, but unregionlocking WCS would do nothing to the amateur Korean players, as the people who would qualify are those who already do well in the GSL.
EDIT: the only way this would be "fair" is if Blizzard let amateur Koreans compete in the WCS but continued to disallow the top Koreans.
That would not be fair in any way. Fair would be what we had before region-lock, when every tournament was open to anyone who showed up. It would however be equal, or at least more equal than both the current system and the pre-region-lock system.
I'm talking about fairness as an abstract concept, and disregarding the very real need to consider the context. Region-lock might be necessary because of the context, to promote equality, but by its very definition it is not fair.
The crux of the issue here is the same as the one with affirmative action: Fair or Equal?
The system we had with no region lock was neither fair nor equal because the context of Koreans having the system and the culture to produce better players created an unequal and unfair competitive advantage for just a blanket completely open tournament scene.
I would posit that what is fair and equal depends on the context in which we are talking fairness and equality.
The context here I think is what lies within the reasonable capacity of an individual player to influence through their own agency. It is unreasonable to punish players based on their country of birth, something over which they have no control.
That being the case, the old system was indeed equal because all players regardless of background had identical opportunity. However, it was unfair due to the inherent advantages of Korean progaming infrastructure.
Region-lock swapped this by making the system fair but unequal, in that foreigners received help (Koreans were banned) which allowed the foreign scene to develop, but at the cost of inequality–treating players differently based on their country of origin.
Region-lock then became both unfair and unequal in the specific case of foreigners living in Korea. Players like Scarlett, Major, etc, are effectively exploiting the best of both worlds by both playing in GSL like the Koreans and playing in WCS events like foreigners.
I would argue that the old scene was both unfair and unequal. Based on their locations of birth, people born in Korea intrinsically had a greater opportunity because of the GSL and because of their culture, which fostered the gaming mentality and attitude. Also, their ladder was stronger.
I actually forgot the two terms that people used. It was equal opportunity and something else...
The terms I am familiar with are "equal opportunity" and "equal outcome," which I have referred to as "fair" and "equal" in this conversation, respectively. Mostly because the latter two are shorter and thus easier to type many times.
Ah, then I would say that with regards to the top Koreans, the situation is both fair and equal because foreigners are not being completely wiped all the time, and the number of competitions is similar. I think 5 to 6.
However, the amateur Korean scene is being destroyed because they can neither compete with mid level foreigners nor their top level countrymen.
Edit: unequal because Koreans could make a living and most foreigners could not. When only the top Koreans and even mid Koreans are winning, this means all the money is going to the Koreans. Slowly, over time, the money all goes towards the Koreans at the expense of the other regions.
Are you referring to the current (region-locked) situation? If so, I would contend that it is unequal because they lack the same access to tournaments as foreign players.
I agree that yes, that is one reason that the amateur Korean scene is dying/dead, but I would tend to think that there are larger ones (namely, the overall lack of Korean interest/$$$ in SC2, which itself has a bunch of reasons).
You are speaking of the monetary outcome, which is obviously of great importance to the players, but I was speaking purely about the competitive outcome. How the players themselves perform in the competition has no bearing on the equality of the competition itself.
It should be obvious by now, but just to be clear I'm arguing purely with regard to theoretics and not at all about the realistic implications of region-locking (which is its own large conversation).
For sure, I definitely understand that.
I think it's because the monetary value that people derive from a competition directly influences how many extra resources are going to be put towards it.
The Korean SC2 had the infrastructure in place, and with the money foreign investors were putting towards the scene, the Korean teamhouses were sustainable because of Korean interest but also because of the success they had internationally.
Take the BTTV house, why is it so popular now? A number of reasons, but one of them is that foreigners can now afford to stay abroad in Korea.
If a career path is not financially viable, mass interest will wane. It's what happened to the AM scene. It was not viable to be a progamer, and as such, most of the pros retired. A team house is only viable as long as there is money to sustain it. The team house is viable only as long as it has sponsors, and the sponsors will sponsor it if their investment pays out (or if they're just dedicated to the scene).
On December 27 2017 18:14 EEk1TwEEk wrote: None of the non-koreans will make it to Ro16
Scarlett has suffered enough. She'll make it this time
God, I hope you're right. That would be a really great moment. After her very impressive performance last time, I don't think there's any foreigner I'd rather see advance.
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
as far as i know koreans such as true/polt/violet are allowed to fly back and play in GSL qualifiers if they want to; there is just a limit to how much time they can spend away from the region they play in if they play wcs
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
as far as i know koreans such as true/polt/violet are allowed to fly back and play in GSL qualifiers if they want to; there is just a limit to how much time they can spend away from the region they play in if they play wcs
The rules limit how much time "qualifying foreign residents" spend outside their region for "non-competitive reasons". Participating in the GSL presumably falls under the heading of "competitive reasons", so in theory a Korean should be able to participate in both GSL and WCS. In practice you probably have to discuss things with Blizzard, and maintaining the resident visa while travelling so much might be tricky.
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
as far as i know koreans such as true/polt/violet are allowed to fly back and play in GSL qualifiers if they want to; there is just a limit to how much time they can spend away from the region they play in if they play wcs
The rules limit how much time "qualifying foreign residents" spend outside their region for "non-competitive reasons". Participating in the GSL presumably falls under the heading of "competitive reasons", so in theory a Korean should be able to participate in both GSL and WCS. In practice you probably have to discuss things with Blizzard, and maintaining the resident visa while travelling so much might be tricky.
I can't imagine Blizzard allowing Koreans to game the system considering the system was put in place to keep them out.
Why Blizzard thought the non-Korean scene was worth saving when it was incurably infested with Zerg players is beyond me.
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
as far as i know koreans such as true/polt/violet are allowed to fly back and play in GSL qualifiers if they want to; there is just a limit to how much time they can spend away from the region they play in if they play wcs
The rules limit how much time "qualifying foreign residents" spend outside their region for "non-competitive reasons". Participating in the GSL presumably falls under the heading of "competitive reasons", so in theory a Korean should be able to participate in both GSL and WCS. In practice you probably have to discuss things with Blizzard, and maintaining the resident visa while travelling so much might be tricky.
I can't imagine Blizzard allowing Koreans to game the system considering the system was put in place to keep them out.
Why Blizzard thought the non-Korean scene was worth saving when it was incurably infested with Zerg players is beyond me.
how is it gaming the system its literally the rules whether you want to believe them or not theyre to make up for the fact that gsl is a several month offline event whereas wcs is just a weekend even if they does go a little overboard
people are paying thousands of dollars to come from na/europe to practice in korea and play in gsl qualifiers; its not so easy for us either
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
as far as i know koreans such as true/polt/violet are allowed to fly back and play in GSL qualifiers if they want to; there is just a limit to how much time they can spend away from the region they play in if they play wcs
The rules limit how much time "qualifying foreign residents" spend outside their region for "non-competitive reasons". Participating in the GSL presumably falls under the heading of "competitive reasons", so in theory a Korean should be able to participate in both GSL and WCS. In practice you probably have to discuss things with Blizzard, and maintaining the resident visa while travelling so much might be tricky.
I can't imagine Blizzard allowing Koreans to game the system considering the system was put in place to keep them out.
Why Blizzard thought the non-Korean scene was worth saving when it was incurably infested with Zerg players is beyond me.
how is it gaming the system its literally the rules whether you want to believe them or not theyre to make up for the fact that gsl is a several month offline event whereas wcs is just a weekend even if they does go a little overboard
people are paying thousands of dollars to come from na/europe to practice in korea and play in gsl qualifiers; its not so easy for us either
When Blizzard split off the WCS Circuit, the intent was for it to be played in by players living outside of Korea while the people living in Korea played in Korean tournaments. They didn't expect people living outside of Korea to try to compete in Korean tournaments, so they didn't ban it. Contravening the intent of the rules is literally the definition of gaming the system.
If the cost of flying to and from Korea is so prohibitive, Blizzard can just drop the split system since it won't be worth it for Koreans to fly out for DreamHacks.
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
as far as i know koreans such as true/polt/violet are allowed to fly back and play in GSL qualifiers if they want to; there is just a limit to how much time they can spend away from the region they play in if they play wcs
The rules limit how much time "qualifying foreign residents" spend outside their region for "non-competitive reasons". Participating in the GSL presumably falls under the heading of "competitive reasons", so in theory a Korean should be able to participate in both GSL and WCS. In practice you probably have to discuss things with Blizzard, and maintaining the resident visa while travelling so much might be tricky.
I can't imagine Blizzard allowing Koreans to game the system considering the system was put in place to keep them out.
Why Blizzard thought the non-Korean scene was worth saving when it was incurably infested with Zerg players is beyond me.
how is it gaming the system its literally the rules whether you want to believe them or not theyre to make up for the fact that gsl is a several month offline event whereas wcs is just a weekend even if they does go a little overboard
people are paying thousands of dollars to come from na/europe to practice in korea and play in gsl qualifiers; its not so easy for us either
When Blizzard split off the WCS Circuit, the intent was for it to be played in by players living outside of Korea while the people living in Korea played in Korean tournaments. They didn't expect people living outside of Korea to try to compete in Korean tournaments, so they didn't ban it. Contravening the intent of the rules is literally the definition of gaming the system.
If the cost of flying to and from Korea is so prohibitive, Blizzard can just drop the split system since it won't be worth it for Koreans to fly out for DreamHacks.
Blizzard straight up said that GSL wasn't region-locked because it was the highest level of Starcraft and that non-Koreans were welcome to compete in it. Stop trying to interpret Blizzard's intent out of thin air to suit your argument, ignoring all that Blizzard has said and done.
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
as far as i know koreans such as true/polt/violet are allowed to fly back and play in GSL qualifiers if they want to; there is just a limit to how much time they can spend away from the region they play in if they play wcs
The rules limit how much time "qualifying foreign residents" spend outside their region for "non-competitive reasons". Participating in the GSL presumably falls under the heading of "competitive reasons", so in theory a Korean should be able to participate in both GSL and WCS. In practice you probably have to discuss things with Blizzard, and maintaining the resident visa while travelling so much might be tricky.
I can't imagine Blizzard allowing Koreans to game the system considering the system was put in place to keep them out.
Why Blizzard thought the non-Korean scene was worth saving when it was incurably infested with Zerg players is beyond me.
how is it gaming the system its literally the rules whether you want to believe them or not theyre to make up for the fact that gsl is a several month offline event whereas wcs is just a weekend even if they does go a little overboard
people are paying thousands of dollars to come from na/europe to practice in korea and play in gsl qualifiers; its not so easy for us either
When Blizzard split off the WCS Circuit, the intent was for it to be played in by players living outside of Korea while the people living in Korea played in Korean tournaments. They didn't expect people living outside of Korea to try to compete in Korean tournaments, so they didn't ban it. Contravening the intent of the rules is literally the definition of gaming the system.
If the cost of flying to and from Korea is so prohibitive, Blizzard can just drop the split system since it won't be worth it for Koreans to fly out for DreamHacks.
Blizzard straight up said that GSL wasn't region-locked because it was the highest level of Starcraft and that non-Koreans were welcome to compete in it. Stop trying to interpret Blizzard's intent out of thin air to suit your argument, ignoring all that Blizzard has said and done.
Why was it the highest level of Starcraft again? Are things still the same as they were 7 years ago?
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
as far as i know koreans such as true/polt/violet are allowed to fly back and play in GSL qualifiers if they want to; there is just a limit to how much time they can spend away from the region they play in if they play wcs
The rules limit how much time "qualifying foreign residents" spend outside their region for "non-competitive reasons". Participating in the GSL presumably falls under the heading of "competitive reasons", so in theory a Korean should be able to participate in both GSL and WCS. In practice you probably have to discuss things with Blizzard, and maintaining the resident visa while travelling so much might be tricky.
I can't imagine Blizzard allowing Koreans to game the system considering the system was put in place to keep them out.
Why Blizzard thought the non-Korean scene was worth saving when it was incurably infested with Zerg players is beyond me.
how is it gaming the system its literally the rules whether you want to believe them or not theyre to make up for the fact that gsl is a several month offline event whereas wcs is just a weekend even if they does go a little overboard
people are paying thousands of dollars to come from na/europe to practice in korea and play in gsl qualifiers; its not so easy for us either
When Blizzard split off the WCS Circuit, the intent was for it to be played in by players living outside of Korea while the people living in Korea played in Korean tournaments. They didn't expect people living outside of Korea to try to compete in Korean tournaments, so they didn't ban it. Contravening the intent of the rules is literally the definition of gaming the system.
If the cost of flying to and from Korea is so prohibitive, Blizzard can just drop the split system since it won't be worth it for Koreans to fly out for DreamHacks.
Blizzard straight up said that GSL wasn't region-locked because it was the highest level of Starcraft and that non-Koreans were welcome to compete in it. Stop trying to interpret Blizzard's intent out of thin air to suit your argument, ignoring all that Blizzard has said and done.
Blizzard created a welfare circuit locking out the best players because the non-Korean pros complained that the non-Korean scene couldn't survive with the system being a meritocracy. That says everything. You don't do that if you think people are capable of double dipping.
On December 28 2017 06:09 SNSeigifried wrote: So I'm just wondering why do people care if Scalett/NoRegreT are allowed to play and qualify if they are doing the same thing TRUE is doing they legit live there all year. 0_0
Because they still participate in WCS events, which all the Koreans cannot. By staying in Korea as foreigners, they can play in both the GSL and still fly out and play in foreign events as well–the exact situation that Koreans are explicitly forbidden to do via region-locking. I do not know whether Blizzard intended this loophole to be present in the region-lock, but the situation as it stands is such that foreigners can and do participate in every tournament while Koreans cannot, simply by virtue of nationality.
It is an irrefutable fact that the current system is unfair (when considered in a vacuum). The question is whether or not it is justified (by historical precedent, skill differential, etc, etc). At its root, the concept is basically the same as affirmative action, with all the same controversy therein.
EDIT: Well, at least Scarlett, Major, etc do this. I haven't heard of Noregret in any of the WCS events so I'm not sure what he does.
as far as i know koreans such as true/polt/violet are allowed to fly back and play in GSL qualifiers if they want to; there is just a limit to how much time they can spend away from the region they play in if they play wcs
The rules limit how much time "qualifying foreign residents" spend outside their region for "non-competitive reasons". Participating in the GSL presumably falls under the heading of "competitive reasons", so in theory a Korean should be able to participate in both GSL and WCS. In practice you probably have to discuss things with Blizzard, and maintaining the resident visa while travelling so much might be tricky.
I can't imagine Blizzard allowing Koreans to game the system considering the system was put in place to keep them out.
Why Blizzard thought the non-Korean scene was worth saving when it was incurably infested with Zerg players is beyond me.
how is it gaming the system its literally the rules whether you want to believe them or not theyre to make up for the fact that gsl is a several month offline event whereas wcs is just a weekend even if they does go a little overboard
people are paying thousands of dollars to come from na/europe to practice in korea and play in gsl qualifiers; its not so easy for us either
When Blizzard split off the WCS Circuit, the intent was for it to be played in by players living outside of Korea while the people living in Korea played in Korean tournaments. They didn't expect people living outside of Korea to try to compete in Korean tournaments, so they didn't ban it. Contravening the intent of the rules is literally the definition of gaming the system.
If the cost of flying to and from Korea is so prohibitive, Blizzard can just drop the split system since it won't be worth it for Koreans to fly out for DreamHacks.
Blizzard straight up said that GSL wasn't region-locked because it was the highest level of Starcraft and that non-Koreans were welcome to compete in it. Stop trying to interpret Blizzard's intent out of thin air to suit your argument, ignoring all that Blizzard has said and done.
Blizzard created a welfare circuit locking out the best players because the non-Korean pros complained that the non-Korean scene couldn't survive with the system being a meritocracy. That says everything. You don't do that if you think people are capable of double dipping.
I'm glad we have a mind-reader like you to parse the terrible ambiguity and underlying contradictions of such imprecise comments as:
The WCS point system will now be split into two standings. The WCS Korea Standings, representing the highest level of competition, will include players participating in the GSL and SSL tournaments in Korea. They’ll be open to any player willing to take up the challenge of league play.
You've opened by eyes as to the reality of these foreigners sinisterly exploiting these loopholes that are explicitly set up by the rules. There's no way Blizzard actually intended what they stated.
Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
Celebrating what? That koreans are excluded from the rest of the world, yet the rest of the world is allowed to invade korea? Yeah, lets celebrate that
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
Celebrating what? That koreans are excluded from the rest of the world, yet the rest of the world is allowed to invade korea? Yeah, lets celebrate that
The performance of the players? Though I'm not the biggest fan of ByuN I'm still pretty happy that he was able to show up and qualify despite his illness for example.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
Celebrating what? That koreans are excluded from the rest of the world, yet the rest of the world is allowed to invade korea? Yeah, lets celebrate that
The performance of the players? Though I'm not the biggest fan of ByuN I'm still pretty happy that he was able to show up and qualify despite his illness for example.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
All hail JAGW who are still keeping their team.
I actually agree, Region locking was done in a time when Kespa Teams were still active and SPL was a thing, giving koreans enough chances to compete. The problem nowadays is that if GSL is the only tournament that is active in Korea, once you are out there is nothing to do for a korean pro in months, and being just 3 GSL seasons its really tricky to compete if you are just a ro32 player.
Yes there are also 2 GSL ST but they are more stacked than a GSL and GSL vs the World is a fan pick not a qualifier so if you are a ro32 korean no way you can participate in.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
Great results is a bit of a stretch when the the greatest wins to achieve them came from a couple of 2-1 wins against Patience and a 2-0 against Forte.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
All hail JAGW who are still keeping their team.
I actually agree, Region locking was done in a time when Kespa Teams were still active and SPL was a thing, giving koreans enough chances to compete. The problem nowadays is that if GSL is the only tournament that is active in Korea, once you are out there is nothing to do for a korean pro in months, and being just 3 GSL seasons its really tricky to compete if you are just a ro32 player.
Yes there are also 2 GSL ST but they are more stacked than a GSL and GSL vs the World is a fan pick not a qualifier so if you are a ro32 korean no way you can participate in.
Thing is, if you're a ro32 Korean, you're not going to get very far in WCS. Unregionlocking the region would primarily help those who already do well.
Take Ryung, for instance. How far would he get in WCS? He might get ro8, but the foreigners are at a level where Ryung doesn't really scare them.
Others like Losira, Trust, Billowy, Ragnarok, and jjakji, how far would they realistically get in WCS? I'd wager that some wouldn't even make it to the ro16. I don't really see any of these players even winning a WCS tournament.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
All hail JAGW who are still keeping their team.
I actually agree, Region locking was done in a time when Kespa Teams were still active and SPL was a thing, giving koreans enough chances to compete. The problem nowadays is that if GSL is the only tournament that is active in Korea, once you are out there is nothing to do for a korean pro in months, and being just 3 GSL seasons its really tricky to compete if you are just a ro32 player.
Yes there are also 2 GSL ST but they are more stacked than a GSL and GSL vs the World is a fan pick not a qualifier so if you are a ro32 korean no way you can participate in.
Thing is, if you're a ro32 Korean, you're not going to get very far in WCS. Unregionlocking the region would primarily help those who already do well.
Take Ryung, for instance. How far would he get in WCS? He might get ro8, but the foreigners are at a level where Ryung doesn't really scare them.
Others like Losira, Trust, Billowy, Ragnarok, and jjakji, how far would they realistically get in WCS? I'd wager that some wouldn't even make it to the ro16. I don't really see any of these players even winning a WCS tournament.
TRUE was a ro32 level player and instantly won the first WCS he played in. I'd definitely favor Ryung over every foreigner except Neeb and Serral.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
All hail JAGW who are still keeping their team.
I actually agree, Region locking was done in a time when Kespa Teams were still active and SPL was a thing, giving koreans enough chances to compete. The problem nowadays is that if GSL is the only tournament that is active in Korea, once you are out there is nothing to do for a korean pro in months, and being just 3 GSL seasons its really tricky to compete if you are just a ro32 player.
Yes there are also 2 GSL ST but they are more stacked than a GSL and GSL vs the World is a fan pick not a qualifier so if you are a ro32 korean no way you can participate in.
Thing is, if you're a ro32 Korean, you're not going to get very far in WCS. Unregionlocking the region would primarily help those who already do well.
Take Ryung, for instance. How far would he get in WCS? He might get ro8, but the foreigners are at a level where Ryung doesn't really scare them.
Others like Losira, Trust, Billowy, Ragnarok, and jjakji, how far would they realistically get in WCS? I'd wager that some wouldn't even make it to the ro16. I don't really see any of these players even winning a WCS tournament.
TRUE was a ro32 level player and instantly won the first WCS he played in. I'd definitely favor Ryung over every foreigner except Neeb and Serral.
I'm willing to bet you $50 on the first match that Nerchio and Ryung play from now
GREAT seeing a majority zerg advancing, for a change, on day 2. The less mass Skilberators and mass Aderpts in Code S, the better the games will be. GREAT JOB NoRegret qualifying WHILE ALSO BRINGING A LIVE STREAM of Day 1. Heres hoping the most consistently top player of all time Soo, who would have won Code S 3-4 times by now if he was either of the other races, will finally take it and be where he deserves.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
All hail JAGW who are still keeping their team.
I actually agree, Region locking was done in a time when Kespa Teams were still active and SPL was a thing, giving koreans enough chances to compete. The problem nowadays is that if GSL is the only tournament that is active in Korea, once you are out there is nothing to do for a korean pro in months, and being just 3 GSL seasons its really tricky to compete if you are just a ro32 player.
Yes there are also 2 GSL ST but they are more stacked than a GSL and GSL vs the World is a fan pick not a qualifier so if you are a ro32 korean no way you can participate in.
Thing is, if you're a ro32 Korean, you're not going to get very far in WCS. Unregionlocking the region would primarily help those who already do well.
Take Ryung, for instance. How far would he get in WCS? He might get ro8, but the foreigners are at a level where Ryung doesn't really scare them.
Others like Losira, Trust, Billowy, Ragnarok, and jjakji, how far would they realistically get in WCS? I'd wager that some wouldn't even make it to the ro16. I don't really see any of these players even winning a WCS tournament.
TRUE was a ro32 level player and instantly won the first WCS he played in. I'd definitely favor Ryung over every foreigner except Neeb and Serral.
The level of a Ro32 player from 2013/14 is different from one in 2017/18. Also foreigners have gotten better. True also made a GSL RO4.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
Celebrating what? That koreans are excluded from the rest of the world, yet the rest of the world is allowed to invade korea? Yeah, lets celebrate that
Celebrating that finally, our heroes the Foreigners are from time to time beating the faceless Koreans, no? Are we all not happy about it? Are you reading that, Blizzard? So what about opening the weekend tournaments for the Koreans again?
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
All hail JAGW who are still keeping their team.
I actually agree, Region locking was done in a time when Kespa Teams were still active and SPL was a thing, giving koreans enough chances to compete. The problem nowadays is that if GSL is the only tournament that is active in Korea, once you are out there is nothing to do for a korean pro in months, and being just 3 GSL seasons its really tricky to compete if you are just a ro32 player.
Yes there are also 2 GSL ST but they are more stacked than a GSL and GSL vs the World is a fan pick not a qualifier so if you are a ro32 korean no way you can participate in.
Thing is, if you're a ro32 Korean, you're not going to get very far in WCS. Unregionlocking the region would primarily help those who already do well.
Take Ryung, for instance. How far would he get in WCS? He might get ro8, but the foreigners are at a level where Ryung doesn't really scare them.
Others like Losira, Trust, Billowy, Ragnarok, and jjakji, how far would they realistically get in WCS? I'd wager that some wouldn't even make it to the ro16. I don't really see any of these players even winning a WCS tournament.
TRUE was a ro32 level player and instantly won the first WCS he played in. I'd definitely favor Ryung over every foreigner except Neeb and Serral.
The level of a Ro32 player from 2013/14 is different from one in 2017/18. Also foreigners have gotten better. True also made a GSL RO4.
TRUE was a ro32 player in 2015/2016, then switched to WCS.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
All hail JAGW who are still keeping their team.
I actually agree, Region locking was done in a time when Kespa Teams were still active and SPL was a thing, giving koreans enough chances to compete. The problem nowadays is that if GSL is the only tournament that is active in Korea, once you are out there is nothing to do for a korean pro in months, and being just 3 GSL seasons its really tricky to compete if you are just a ro32 player.
Yes there are also 2 GSL ST but they are more stacked than a GSL and GSL vs the World is a fan pick not a qualifier so if you are a ro32 korean no way you can participate in.
Thing is, if you're a ro32 Korean, you're not going to get very far in WCS. Unregionlocking the region would primarily help those who already do well.
Take Ryung, for instance. How far would he get in WCS? He might get ro8, but the foreigners are at a level where Ryung doesn't really scare them.
Others like Losira, Trust, Billowy, Ragnarok, and jjakji, how far would they realistically get in WCS? I'd wager that some wouldn't even make it to the ro16. I don't really see any of these players even winning a WCS tournament.
TRUE was a ro32 level player and instantly won the first WCS he played in. I'd definitely favor Ryung over every foreigner except Neeb and Serral.
The level of a Ro32 player from 2013/14 is different from one in 2017/18. Also foreigners have gotten better. True also made a GSL RO4.
TRUE was a ro32 player in 2015/2016, then switched to WCS.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
All hail JAGW who are still keeping their team.
I actually agree, Region locking was done in a time when Kespa Teams were still active and SPL was a thing, giving koreans enough chances to compete. The problem nowadays is that if GSL is the only tournament that is active in Korea, once you are out there is nothing to do for a korean pro in months, and being just 3 GSL seasons its really tricky to compete if you are just a ro32 player.
Yes there are also 2 GSL ST but they are more stacked than a GSL and GSL vs the World is a fan pick not a qualifier so if you are a ro32 korean no way you can participate in.
Thing is, if you're a ro32 Korean, you're not going to get very far in WCS. Unregionlocking the region would primarily help those who already do well.
Take Ryung, for instance. How far would he get in WCS? He might get ro8, but the foreigners are at a level where Ryung doesn't really scare them.
Others like Losira, Trust, Billowy, Ragnarok, and jjakji, how far would they realistically get in WCS? I'd wager that some wouldn't even make it to the ro16. I don't really see any of these players even winning a WCS tournament.
TRUE was a ro32 level player and instantly won the first WCS he played in. I'd definitely favor Ryung over every foreigner except Neeb and Serral.
The level of a Ro32 player from 2013/14 is different from one in 2017/18. Also foreigners have gotten better. True also made a GSL RO4.
TRUE was a ro32 player in 2015/2016, then switched to WCS.
On December 28 2017 17:09 Diabolique wrote: Interesting, what a celebration thread about "a new GSL year and a few foreigners achieving great results" turned into.
I am happy about all the foreigners trying their luck in GSL and I hope, some of them get into the RO16 and even further (well, nobody except Scarlett probably has a chance). And hopefully, when this happens, it will force Blizzard to remove the region lock completely.
It won't happen until the Korean scene is actually worse and beyond saving. Basically look at the blord infestor, they're doing changes yearly, what changes happened when KeSPA teams abandoned SC2 in Korea? None IIRC
Edit: the changes - I mean region lock issue wise. Without KeSPA teams less Koreans can travel abroad and less Koreans can actually live from SC2, which makes the region lock kinda weird state.
All hail JAGW who are still keeping their team.
I actually agree, Region locking was done in a time when Kespa Teams were still active and SPL was a thing, giving koreans enough chances to compete. The problem nowadays is that if GSL is the only tournament that is active in Korea, once you are out there is nothing to do for a korean pro in months, and being just 3 GSL seasons its really tricky to compete if you are just a ro32 player.
Yes there are also 2 GSL ST but they are more stacked than a GSL and GSL vs the World is a fan pick not a qualifier so if you are a ro32 korean no way you can participate in.
Thing is, if you're a ro32 Korean, you're not going to get very far in WCS. Unregionlocking the region would primarily help those who already do well.
Take Ryung, for instance. How far would he get in WCS? He might get ro8, but the foreigners are at a level where Ryung doesn't really scare them.
Others like Losira, Trust, Billowy, Ragnarok, and jjakji, how far would they realistically get in WCS? I'd wager that some wouldn't even make it to the ro16. I don't really see any of these players even winning a WCS tournament.
Yes, ro32 Koreans are no longer good thus they need the protection the foreigners have. Regionlock those vicious money grabbing foreigners away.
(BTW I love the fact that we have there 3 foreigners, but at the same time I hate the fact that they're effectively taking Korean money while Koreans cannot take foreigner money)
The main problem is that there are many less global tournaments than we (or at least I) thought there to be when the region lock was announced. The % of locked tournaments is too high; SSL missed one season, and there were only few open IEMs and weekend GSL cups, etc
On December 29 2017 00:07 seopthi wrote: The main problem is that there are many less global tournaments than we (or at least I) thought there to be when the region lock was announced. The % of locked tournaments is too high; SSL missed one season, and there were only few open IEMs and weekend GSL cups, etc
Plus there is a big chance, those few tournaments would not exist, if Blizzard was not bribing the organizers with huge prize money ...
I am sad, seeing the few thousands viewers, top competitions in SC2 bring, while Hearthstone draws five times, ten times more. Top streamers in SC2 have 1000-2000 viewers? The top streamers in HearthStone have 10000-20000 viewers.
Maybe, it is kind of Athletic vs. Football. Athletic is beautiful, more demanding, but does not have at all similar money as football has. Well, it is what it is. So thanks for HomeStory cup and the few open tournaments for all Koreans and Foreigners.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/blog_header/ri/RIZ0NJ1EOA4B1490226976060.jpg)
Scarlett, 
SpeCial though as he failed to make it through his bracket falling to 
Billowy 
