EPTThink I'm gonna go watch all three GSLs as I missed them the first time round.
2017 in Review - Team Liquid Awards - Page 6
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DSK
England1110 Posts
Think I'm gonna go watch all three GSLs as I missed them the first time round. | ||
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Wardi
England898 Posts
On December 05 2017 14:05 Avexyli wrote: Putting Abyssal below Ascension is... very questionable imo. Also, "it's a much larger map than Odyssey or Abyssal" ..no it's not. It's smaller in overall area. Odyssey uses most of it's space and has a total area of 23,712 units. Ascension has dead air space and is still only at 21,120 units. Also, "limited expansion pattern'? What? Abyssal is the first map we've ever seen where we have 3 third base options. Though Terran and Protoss had little/no reason to use the horizontal third, there were many players who utilized (and still use) that base for specific builds and it would show with their playstyles. Having this option also is a subtle nerf to certain cheeses. For example, proxy gating at the bridge inbetween the triangular third and natural would normally shut down any attempt at taking a close-by third for reinforcements, however, taking that horizontal base would actually give you ample time to defend at least one of the bases from the proxy (I've seen ViBe utilize this on stream quite a number of times to great success). Ascension to Aiurs middle is really uninspired, it's a highground pod with lowground chokes surrounding it. Despite being forced to, players aren't very comfortable engaging there, they would prefer to take position in the wildly open area outside of it. That pod also has two xel'naga watch towers that are extremely powerful, as they cover any reasonable attack paths for the two players, which honestly is just lazy design, you should always take those towers past the early game or you're hurting yourself, the information it gives is so vital. Aesthetically the map is just silver and green, it's honestly just really boring to look at unless you decide to take a walk around the border. Sorry but that whole 'best map' section just reads so wrong to me. Abyssal is clearly the better map, especially for map of the year. When I first read this I sort of saw it and thought it was dumb and just skipped past to the next parts, but actually reading the description why is just embarrassing, like did the writers not watch any games on Abyssal all year long? Rest of the article is pretty good/fun though. Hard to disagree with most, this year has been pretty clear cut in terms of success stories. | ||
Waxangel
United States33713 Posts
On December 05 2017 20:15 Wardi wrote: Abyssal is clearly the better map, especially for map of the year. When I first read this I sort of saw it and thought it was dumb and just skipped past to the next parts, but actually reading the description why is just embarrassing, like did the writers not watch any games on Abyssal all year long? Rest of the article is pretty good/fun though. Hard to disagree with most, this year has been pretty clear cut in terms of success stories. YOUR argument is embarrassing | ||
Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Executer08
Germany163 Posts
On December 04 2017 04:49 Charoisaur wrote: And Stats won 2 Starleagues, had high finishes in the other ones and bombed out in the group stage of Blizzcon. This proves Blizzcon is the higher level event. /s perfect response to a really dumb comment. sometimes its astonishing how bad people are at reasoning. i guess stupid arguments fit a stupid and pointless discussion though ^^ | ||
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Waxangel
United States33713 Posts
On December 06 2017 02:23 Olli wrote: Ha, I agree with people shitting on us for once that only means you're becoming one of the plebs  | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 06 2017 13:08 Waxangel wrote: that only means you're becoming one of the plebs So how did mizenhauer convince you that Ascension was the greatest thing since | ||
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stevemachine17
45 Posts
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
 I demand game equality!! I know it's not as exciting with 0 breakout players etc. though  | ||
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jodljodl
182 Posts
Just yesterday(?) in the ONPOONG 11-games series vs INnoVation there was at least one game that came close to the infamous game vs Byun on KingSejongStation in the 2016 WCS finals. And it feels like if dark's playing there's always the not-so-small possibility of a truly awesome game. I don't have a list of games in mind that makes dark the most entertaining player 2017, but at least for the last two years my gut tells me he is :> without any doubt. thx TL for this review! | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 08 2017 01:40 FlopTurnReaver wrote: So racist towards BW I demand game equality!! I know it's not as exciting with 0 breakout players etc. though How absolutely incredible that an article in the SC2 General section about 2017 in competitive SC2 would not mention BW  . | ||
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Scarlett`
Korea (South)2446 Posts
On December 05 2017 14:05 Avexyli wrote: Putting Abyssal below Ascension is... very questionable imo. Also, "it's a much larger map than Odyssey or Abyssal" ..no it's not. It's smaller in overall area. Odyssey uses most of it's space and has a total area of 23,712 units. Ascension has dead air space and is still only at 21,120 units. Also, "limited expansion pattern'? What? Abyssal is the first map we've ever seen where we have 3 third base options. Though Terran and Protoss had little/no reason to use the horizontal third, there were many players who utilized (and still use) that base for specific builds and it would show with their playstyles. Having this option also is a subtle nerf to certain cheeses. For example, proxy gating at the bridge inbetween the triangular third and natural would normally shut down any attempt at taking a close-by third for reinforcements, however, taking that horizontal base would actually give you ample time to defend at least one of the bases from the proxy (I've seen ViBe utilize this on stream quite a number of times to great success). Ascension to Aiurs middle is really uninspired, it's a highground pod with lowground chokes surrounding it. Despite being forced to, players aren't very comfortable engaging there, they would prefer to take position in the wildly open area outside of it. That pod also has two xel'naga watch towers that are extremely powerful, as they cover any reasonable attack paths for the two players, which honestly is just lazy design, you should always take those towers past the early game or you're hurting yourself, the information it gives is so vital. Aesthetically the map is just silver and green, it's honestly just really boring to look at unless you decide to take a walk around the border. Sorry but that whole 'best map' section just reads so wrong to me. i would say abyssal rush distance is too short and 4th/5th too easy to defend for it to be map of the year; its one of the maps that i always wanted veto but really had to veto catalena instead the horizontal 3rd on abyssal was not really viable zergs tried it out for a bit but theres too much airspace behind the horizontal main-4th area for it to work in zvz abyssal is also the most luck based map at the moment because of the rush distance (12pool vs pool first vs hatch first) maybe it looks pretty but its miserable to play on | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2475 Posts
Ascension to Aiur: Map Bounds: 160x132 Main CC to Main CC: 44 seconds Nat CC to Nat CC: 37 seconds Abyssal Reef: Map Bounds: 158x134 Main CC to Main CC: 45seconds Nat CC to Nat CC: 35 seconds (These numbers might be a bit off because I know blizzard will play with the bounds a bit, but they are the numbers I found on my TL map posts...not at home so can't load up the map files to check) But both maps are very very very similar in size and rush distances. Ascension is much more open where as Abyssal is more choked but has many more attack and flank paths. It's pretty amazing how map architecture changes the map so much even though they are both so similar in size and rush distance. The more you know! =) | ||
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Scarlett`
Korea (South)2446 Posts
On December 08 2017 06:34 SidianTheBard wrote: Figured I'd throw this out here... Ascension to Aiur: Map Bounds: 160x132 Main CC to Main CC: 44 seconds Nat CC to Nat CC: 37 seconds Abyssal Reef: Map Bounds: 158x134 Main CC to Main CC: 45seconds Nat CC to Nat CC: 35 seconds (These numbers might be a bit off because I know blizzard will play with the bounds a bit, but they are the numbers I found on my TL map posts...not at home so can't load up the map files to check) But both maps are very very very similar in size and rush distances. Ascension is much more open where as Abyssal is more choked but has many more attack and flank paths. It's pretty amazing how map architecture changes the map so much even though they are both so similar in size and rush distance. The more you know! =) blizzard must have changed it then cuz rush distance (main to natural) is around 6-7 seconds faster on abyssal than ascension (not calculated but pvz 9pylon scout arrives to block at ~46 seconds vs ~53 seconds) | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 08 2017 06:46 Scarlett` wrote: blizzard must have changed it then cuz rush distance (main to natural) is around 6-7 seconds faster on abyssal than ascension (not calculated but pvz 9pylon scout arrives to block at ~46 seconds vs ~53 seconds) Abyssal's 152x136 (though I don't feel like Blizzard changed it. Could just be a mistake in the map thread). I know some Zerg pros like Nerchio also aren't the biggest fan of Abyssal, but it isn't universal among zergs--Snute is a big fan. Protoss and terran pros are generally pretty happy about Abyssal. Ascension's rather Zerg favoured tbf (or at least was for quite some time). | ||
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
On December 08 2017 03:28 ZigguratOfUr wrote: How absolutely incredible that an article in the SC2 General section about 2017 in competitive SC2 would not mention BW .I was more talking about a similar thread in the BW section though | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 08 2017 23:31 FlopTurnReaver wrote: I was more talking about a similar thread in the BW section though No one's stopping you from writing one.  | ||
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FlopTurnReaver
Switzerland1980 Posts
On December 09 2017 03:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote: No one's stopping you from writing one. Are you my mother?  | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On December 05 2017 14:05 Avexyli wrote: Putting Abyssal below Ascension is... very questionable imo. Also, "it's a much larger map than Odyssey or Abyssal" ..no it's not. It's smaller in overall area. Odyssey uses most of it's space and has a total area of 23,712 units. Ascension has dead air space and is still only at 21,120 units. Also, "limited expansion pattern'? What? Abyssal is the first map we've ever seen where we have 3 third base options. Though Terran and Protoss had little/no reason to use the horizontal third, there were many players who utilized (and still use) that base for specific builds and it would show with their playstyles. Having this option also is a subtle nerf to certain cheeses. For example, proxy gating at the bridge inbetween the triangular third and natural would normally shut down any attempt at taking a close-by third for reinforcements, however, taking that horizontal base would actually give you ample time to defend at least one of the bases from the proxy (I've seen ViBe utilize this on stream quite a number of times to great success). Ascension to Aiurs middle is really uninspired, it's a highground pod with lowground chokes surrounding it. Despite being forced to, players aren't very comfortable engaging there, they would prefer to take position in the wildly open area outside of it. That pod also has two xel'naga watch towers that are extremely powerful, as they cover any reasonable attack paths for the two players, which honestly is just lazy design, you should always take those towers past the early game or you're hurting yourself, the information it gives is so vital. Aesthetically the map is just silver and green, it's honestly just really boring to look at unless you decide to take a walk around the border. Sorry but that whole 'best map' section just reads so wrong to me. completely agree | ||
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