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On October 17 2017 23:51 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2017 19:56 Hider wrote:On October 17 2017 19:16 aQuaSC wrote:On October 17 2017 17:48 Hider wrote:On October 17 2017 07:10 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Seems cool.
Not sure about doubling the health of everything--this seems like it could cause balance problems even at the level of the intended audience. Some units might not even be worth building. It's a huge buff to melee units. Anyway I am sure its a nice little fun mode that non Sc2 players will play for a bit (due to Totalbiscuits brand) and then after a little while they will move on, and the mod will be forgotten about. If you want to attracht a stable and large new playerbase you need to make a brand new game on a brand net platform. Preferably designed with microtransactions and continuous development in mind, I feel that games that are complete are not attracting people anymore. Or they are but for a really short period compared to other titles Back in the days of Wc3, custom games/mod were very attractive they were one of the only (decent) F2P options. Today there are so many opportunities ot play cheap/free games. There are also a ton of things a new RTS game needs to do corect from a design-perspective. It's quite challenging and 99% of developers have failed and a large portion of new developers will fail because they don't understand how to make an easy-to-learn difficult to master game. E.g. Day9's atlas is a prime example of what not to do when making an RTS game. Instead developers needs to figure out how you make awesome and skill-based micro interactions. If you don't understand that, then nothing else (including business model / overall gameplay model/strategic choices etc.) will matter - the game will fail. It's easier to make an FPS that is "fun" for a large audience than an RTS, however I think if you do everything right, then the RTS game can be even more fun for casuals as well - hence why I am predicting a return to popularity in 5-10 years. So even though I am a long-term "Bull" on the the potential of the RTS-genre, it's been easy to predict that all the RTS games launched previouosly would fail and I don't see any new game completely breaking that trend over the next 2-3 years. what was wrong with atlas??? it was fun to play during the betas/alphas, although it wasn't as good as broodwar or traditional RTS. it just needed some design changes and it could have been lightning in a bottle i think. especially if day9 had added anime girls and marketed it to korea and china instead of western markets..
The micro interactions were nonexistant (various reasons for this - won't go into more detail). It's the single most important aspect of an RTS. It's like playing an FPS and if the shooting part is hella boring, nothing else matters.
That's obviously not to say other stuff isn't important either. There are alot of things that needs to be done correct for an RTS to succeed.
(note: to anyone wanting to talk about atlas, don't bring up the "lack of marketing" excuse. No start-up company is gonna have a big marketing budget. It's all about word of mouth from the initial testers who really liked the game + streaming/youtube exposure. Investors clearly evaluated that the game lacked interest on multiple metrics and thus shut it down. Just because you had a fun experience doesn't imply that it interested the majority of the potential target group).
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didnt they have a massive chinese corporation sponsoring them?????
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Ill just copy paste what I said about the "SC2- Powered" mod:
Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW(not this time actually! Good job!) and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....
Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming TotalBiscuit does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase.
Again, I appreciate the effort, but I just cant believe it will work.
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On October 18 2017 01:28 Kerdinand wrote:Ill just copy paste what I said about the "SC2- Powered" mod: Show nested quote +Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW(not this time actually! Good job!) and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....
Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming TotalBiscuit does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase. Again, I appreciate the effort, but I just cant believe it will work.
If you're just going to shitpost and not even go into the effort of doing it properly I cannot imagine what result you expect to accomplish here.
You don't believe it will last longer than a few weeks. Cool yeah because I definitely just thought that just putting a mod out and not having a plan for promotion and playerbase building would be a good idea.
It's not like we have a 6 month plan of promotion and playerbase building that covers exactly that. It's not like we have a channel of over 2m people to promote to, or a big network of promotional partners.
Oh no wait we have all of those things and totally prepared for all of that.
This kind of snark is worthless. Either contribute or get out of the way. We didn't build it for people that post on TL in the first place, you're not the target audience and not who we are promoting to. If you want to help thats great but if you don't, you're just noise
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On October 18 2017 02:18 ClanWars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2017 01:28 Kerdinand wrote:Ill just copy paste what I said about the "SC2- Powered" mod: Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW(not this time actually! Good job!) and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....
Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming TotalBiscuit does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase. Again, I appreciate the effort, but I just cant believe it will work. If you're just going to shitpost and not even go into the effort of doing it properly I cannot imagine what result you expect to accomplish here. You don't believe it will last longer than a few weeks. Cool yeah because I definitely just thought that just putting a mod out and not having a plan for promotion and playerbase building would be a good idea. It's not like we have a 6 month plan of promotion and playerbase building that covers exactly that. It's not like we have a channel of over 2m people to promote to, or a big network of promotional partners. Oh no wait we have all of those things and totally prepared for all of that. This kind of snark is worthless. Either contribute or get out of the way. We didn't build it for people that post on TL in the first place, you're not the target audience and not who we are promoting to. If you want to help thats great but if you don't, you're just noise
If stating your opinion is calling "shitposting" nowadays, I guess I'm guilty of that. I'm saying none of these mods has worked so far, and thus I do not believe this one will either. I think older players will prefer the standard SC with easy laddering and a 7 year old playerbase instead of some new mod they have to adapt to while newer players will not even be experienced enough to use a mod instead of the easier way, standard multiplayer (that can also be pretty funny and relaxing in the lower levels).
I dont say it wont work. I just say I dont believe in it. And thats just my opinion. I'm sorry if you cant accept people posting an opinon other than your own here, but I guess I have the right to say what I think.
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damn that are some clever make things easier options.
And I didnt know there were mods that tried to make the Sc2 experience easier ... could have needed those to play with friends.
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On October 18 2017 02:47 Kerdinand wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2017 02:18 ClanWars wrote:On October 18 2017 01:28 Kerdinand wrote:Ill just copy paste what I said about the "SC2- Powered" mod: Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW(not this time actually! Good job!) and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....
Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming TotalBiscuit does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase. Again, I appreciate the effort, but I just cant believe it will work. If you're just going to shitpost and not even go into the effort of doing it properly I cannot imagine what result you expect to accomplish here. You don't believe it will last longer than a few weeks. Cool yeah because I definitely just thought that just putting a mod out and not having a plan for promotion and playerbase building would be a good idea. It's not like we have a 6 month plan of promotion and playerbase building that covers exactly that. It's not like we have a channel of over 2m people to promote to, or a big network of promotional partners. Oh no wait we have all of those things and totally prepared for all of that. This kind of snark is worthless. Either contribute or get out of the way. We didn't build it for people that post on TL in the first place, you're not the target audience and not who we are promoting to. If you want to help thats great but if you don't, you're just noise If stating your opinion is calling "shitposting" nowadays, I guess I'm guilty of that. I'm saying none of these mods has worked so far, and thus I do not believe this one will either. I think older players will prefer the standard SC with easy laddering and a 7 year old playerbase instead of some new mod they have to adapt to while newer players will not even be experienced enough to use a mod instead of the easier way, standard multiplayer (that can also be pretty funny and relaxing in the lower levels). I dont say it wont work. I just say I dont believe in it. And thats just my opinion. I'm sorry if you cant accept people posting an opinon other than your own here, but I guess I have the right to say what I think.
If the opinion doesnt help make the game better the opinion has no worth. It's not even unconstructive criticism, its a tier below that, his post consisted of "hurrdurr will die in a few weeks". Its useless shit, shitposting.
Why are we talking about a "7 year old playerbase". None of them are the target audience for this. Nobody here is, with the exception of those who want to play with inexperienced friends and have a more even experience.
That's what people on forums dont understand. Not everything is tailor-made for them. In this case its explicitly NOT made for experienced players, so any opinion they have is going to be of limited value to begin with. When that opinion consists of nothing but bullshit speculation about how long the playerbase will last, what respect do you think I'm going to give to a post like that?
None, exactly as much as it deserves. For some reason people massively overvalue their opinions on the internet. Opinions are the cheapest, easiest thing you can have and the most abundant thing on the internet. Their individual value is effectively nil and yet people get really uppity when you mention that their opinion might not be a special valuable snowflake that we all cherish. Sooner the internet learns that the better off we'll be.
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On October 17 2017 20:58 aQuaSC wrote:Slightly going out of topic, but to me personally biggest flaw SC2 has had over the years is the fact that there are many units that are present across campaign, multiplayer and co-op in which they work completely differently. What SC1 has best is the fact that you get the same tools in multiplayer as in campaign - single player in SC1 is an amazing introduction to the multiplayer part of the game. If you can handle units in campaign there you can do it in multiplayer. Future RTS should take this into account. One thing in the game needs to be identical across all of the game modes. It's understandable that Blizzard wanted SC2 campaigns and other stuff being as explosive, fun and varied as possible and to me they did, but it shouldn't take priority in development of all of the game modes. It ended up dividing the game in itself, I mean you have Adepts shooting air in LotV campaign and in co-op, but not in multiplayer? Why? A tooltip before a regular multiplayer match saying that campaign units are heavily modified compared to multiplayer is not a fix for this. In my opinion multiplayer should have and be a base set of game units/mechanics with campaign/co-op having stuff exclusive to them and every change affecting multiplayer should affect other modes too, but it's too late to change any of that. Axiom is only going further that way. If it was ever made with a thought of being an entrance to regular SC2 1v1, well it won't be. It's a completely different game mode, it shouldn't be compared to regular competitive experience, it's more of an RPG where you play a person that can play SC2 or something. If someone happens to get into SC2 through it they will be in for a surprise when they try the real thing, hopefully they will stay for the challenge. Or maybe I'm overthinking it all 
I'm of the opposite opinion. Each mode should be optimized and designed for their respective audiences without affecting or being restricted by the other. For regular multiplayer, Blizzard did try very hard to provide a transition for casual players in the form of challenge missions, training mode, and vs ai matchmaking.
One game where I didn't like multiplayer balance changes affecting single player was C&C3. Changes to things such as harvester health and building radii might've made sense in multiplayer, but they felt clunky when bleeding over into the campaign. I actually preferred the 1.0 version for the campaign instead of the latest patch.
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Very interesting mod. I'm suprised it works so well as it does. I hope you guys keep supporting and patching it!
Here are a couple pointers I noticed:
- I think the next step is to create a 4th tab called "Abilities" or "Unit Powers". Currently, the unit specific abilities are shared with the tabs, and as such, it becomes a bit of a jumbled mess of buttons. Like I said, the next step is to put all spells and abilities under a new tab, so that PSionic Storm will show a number of how many times I can cast it, and the game will pull the closest High Templer to it for casting.
- The Terran Auto Wall is a noble idea, but I found it doesn't really work wonders, many times the Wall closes while units still want to pass through, preventing in these units to sit idle next to the Wall. At this point I'm not sure what a good sollution might be.
- The game is build upon the latest LoV patch, but do you guys have intentions to start modding units and steering away from Blizzard's vision? It would be fun if you guys would tweak units to suit your own vision. In my opinion, LoV suffers from "bloat", as in there's too many units and abilities. Maybe trimming this stuff would further help with the "beginner friendly" approach this mod has!
Alright, keep on truckin' !
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On October 18 2017 07:05 Masemium wrote:
Very interesting mod. I'm suprised it works so well as it does. I hope you guys keep supporting and patching it!
Here are a couple pointers I noticed:
- I think the next step is to create a 4th tab called "Abilities" or "Unit Powers". Currently, the unit specific abilities are shared with the tabs, and as such, it becomes a bit of a jumbled mess of buttons. Like I said, the next step is to put all spells and abilities under a new tab, so that PSionic Storm will show a number of how many times I can cast it, and the game will pull the closest High Templer to it for casting.
That was our initial plan but its not possible. The game can't be forced to select tabs under certain circumstances, meaning you'd be in a fight and have to click abilities to even use anything, nothing would work otherwise. The current QWER system makes sure that regardless of which tab you'r eon, you can use all your abilities.
- The Terran Auto Wall is a noble idea, but I found it doesn't really work wonders, many times the Wall closes while units still want to pass through, preventing in these units to sit idle next to the Wall. At this point I'm not sure what a good sollution might be.
We just fixed that.
- The game is build upon the latest LoV patch, but do you guys have intentions to start modding units and steering away from Blizzard's vision? It would be fun if you guys would tweak units to suit your own vision. In my opinion, LoV suffers from "bloat", as in there's too many units and abilities. Maybe trimming this stuff would further help with the "beginner friendly" approach this mod has!
Alright, keep on truckin' !
There will be balance changes but we're not going to stray too far from the regular game, it would defeat the purpose of making a version that looks like the eSports versions and is relatable to the audience.
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On October 18 2017 01:28 Kerdinand wrote:Ill just copy paste what I said about the "SC2- Powered" mod: Show nested quote +Oh look, another community mod that tries to make the game more like BW(not this time actually! Good job!) and that nobody will play after trying it out once or twice....
Honestly, I appreciate the effort everybody puts into these mods, but it seems like a waste of time to me. If you want to help the development of this game then give feedback in the community update threads. Now, that a big organisation like o'gaming TotalBiscuit does it this might actually gain some track, but I dont believe it will last longer than a few weeks without a dedicated ladder and playerbase. Again, I appreciate the effort, but I just cant believe it will work.
Wasn't a useful contribution then. Still isn't. You're providing your own bar for success (not necessarily that of the mod-makers) and deciding that anything less or different makes the effort a waste of time, but it's not up to you.
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I played several games yesterday evening. I enjoyed them. I had a few questions about the mod.
If I understand correctly, this mod is targeted at more casual players who find competitive StarCraft too intimidating. To quote the website, "this game mode lowers the barrier to entry and allows friends to play with each other without having to be the same skill level."
In that case, why was the 1v1 game mode chosen? That feels to me much more intimidating than team games, especially comp stomps. I would like to try this with more casual friends in a 4v4 against the AI. However, I'm not sure the same applies to 1v1. For instance, the game's description cites the three core tenets of great RTS gameplay as "build your dream base, recruit a powerful army, and annihilate your enemy". But the nature of 1v1 is that, typically, one player does the annihilating and the other player gets annihilated. Now, if you play the ladder and force yourself to always play opponents very close to you in skill level, then you can usually avoid this problem. But, the target audience is supposed to not like this, and anyway the mod is intended for players with potentially very large skill differences.
Based on your responses in this thread, you're trying to "[make] a version that looks like the eSports versions and is relatable to the audience". Is it not possible to do this with a team game, or any other game mode? For instance, does Blizzard have data on the attachment rate of the co-op player base to StarCraft esports compared with players who only play 1v1?
Thanks for making this mod and I look forward to playing it again this evening.
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In that case, why was the 1v1 game mode chosen? That feels to me much more intimidating than team games, especially comp stomps. I would like to try this with more casual friends in a 4v4 against the AI. However, I'm not sure the same applies to 1v1. For instance, the game's description cites the three core tenets of great RTS gameplay as "build your dream base, recruit a powerful army, and annihilate your enemy". But the nature of 1v1 is that, typically, one player does the annihilating and the other player gets annihilated
I still wonder why people keep spreading the myth of 1v1 being anti-casual per definition while ignoring Heartstone disproved that myth.
No, with proper game-design you can significantly reduce the learning barrier and make a fun experience for a novice player.
Sc2 is not a shitty experience for new players because its a 1v1 game. It's a shitty experience because you can and will die to a shitton of different things while feeling mechanically overwhelmed and having no idea what your doing.
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On October 18 2017 07:51 grizzlybear wrote:
I played several games yesterday evening. I enjoyed them. I had a few questions about the mod.
If I understand correctly, this mod is targeted at more casual players who find competitive StarCraft too intimidating. To quote the website, "this game mode lowers the barrier to entry and allows friends to play with each other without having to be the same skill level."
In that case, why was the 1v1 game mode chosen? That feels to me much more intimidating than team games, especially comp stomps. I would like to try this with more casual friends in a 4v4 against the AI. However, I'm not sure the same applies to 1v1. For instance, the game's description cites the three core tenets of great RTS gameplay as "build your dream base, recruit a powerful army, and annihilate your enemy". But the nature of 1v1 is that, typically, one player does the annihilating and the other player gets annihilated. Now, if you play the ladder and force yourself to always play opponents very close to you in skill level, then you can usually avoid this problem. But, the target audience is supposed to not like this, and anyway the mod is intended for players with potentially very large skill differences.
Based on your responses in this thread, you're trying to "[make] a version that looks like the eSports versions and is relatable to the audience". Is it not possible to do this with a team game, or any other game mode? For instance, does Blizzard have data on the attachment rate of the co-op player base to StarCraft esports compared with players who only play 1v1?
Thanks for making this mod and I look forward to playing it again this evening.
I don't believe 1v1 is inherently "not casual friendly". What I do believe is that there's a lot of things put in the way of people who want to play 1v1 that aren't the opponent and that should be the only thing between them and winning.
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On October 18 2017 08:47 ClanWars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2017 07:51 grizzlybear wrote:
I played several games yesterday evening. I enjoyed them. I had a few questions about the mod.
If I understand correctly, this mod is targeted at more casual players who find competitive StarCraft too intimidating. To quote the website, "this game mode lowers the barrier to entry and allows friends to play with each other without having to be the same skill level."
In that case, why was the 1v1 game mode chosen? That feels to me much more intimidating than team games, especially comp stomps. I would like to try this with more casual friends in a 4v4 against the AI. However, I'm not sure the same applies to 1v1. For instance, the game's description cites the three core tenets of great RTS gameplay as "build your dream base, recruit a powerful army, and annihilate your enemy". But the nature of 1v1 is that, typically, one player does the annihilating and the other player gets annihilated. Now, if you play the ladder and force yourself to always play opponents very close to you in skill level, then you can usually avoid this problem. But, the target audience is supposed to not like this, and anyway the mod is intended for players with potentially very large skill differences.
Based on your responses in this thread, you're trying to "[make] a version that looks like the eSports versions and is relatable to the audience". Is it not possible to do this with a team game, or any other game mode? For instance, does Blizzard have data on the attachment rate of the co-op player base to StarCraft esports compared with players who only play 1v1?
Thanks for making this mod and I look forward to playing it again this evening. I don't believe 1v1 is inherently "not casual friendly". What I do believe is that there's a lot of things put in the way of people who want to play 1v1 that aren't the opponent and that should be the only thing between them and winning.
I see. If I understand correctly, the idea is that many people who would otherwise play 1v1 don't do so because there are things getting in their way? In this case, those things would be the game's mechanics - like the need to select a building to construct a unit instead of having a universal command bar, or the need to consistently place supply buildings?
Would you say that skill differentiation isn't a core goal of this mod, i.e. wins or losses shouldn't feel skill-based? Or do you still want a winning player to feel like they played better than their opponent and a losing player to feel like they played worse than their opponent? Or, is it that skill differentiation is still important, it's just that you want to eliminate particular areas of skill differentiation, e.g. consistently placing supply buildings?
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On October 17 2017 23:51 Endymion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2017 19:56 Hider wrote:On October 17 2017 19:16 aQuaSC wrote:On October 17 2017 17:48 Hider wrote:On October 17 2017 07:10 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Seems cool.
Not sure about doubling the health of everything--this seems like it could cause balance problems even at the level of the intended audience. Some units might not even be worth building. It's a huge buff to melee units. Anyway I am sure its a nice little fun mode that non Sc2 players will play for a bit (due to Totalbiscuits brand) and then after a little while they will move on, and the mod will be forgotten about. If you want to attracht a stable and large new playerbase you need to make a brand new game on a brand net platform. Preferably designed with microtransactions and continuous development in mind, I feel that games that are complete are not attracting people anymore. Or they are but for a really short period compared to other titles Back in the days of Wc3, custom games/mod were very attractive they were one of the only (decent) F2P options. Today there are so many opportunities ot play cheap/free games. There are also a ton of things a new RTS game needs to do corect from a design-perspective. It's quite challenging and 99% of developers have failed and a large portion of new developers will fail because they don't understand how to make an easy-to-learn difficult to master game. E.g. Day9's atlas is a prime example of what not to do when making an RTS game. Instead developers needs to figure out how you make awesome and skill-based micro interactions. If you don't understand that, then nothing else (including business model / overall gameplay model/strategic choices etc.) will matter - the game will fail. It's easier to make an FPS that is "fun" for a large audience than an RTS, however I think if you do everything right, then the RTS game can be even more fun for casuals as well - hence why I am predicting a return to popularity in 5-10 years. So even though I am a long-term "Bull" on the the potential of the RTS-genre, it's been easy to predict that all the RTS games launched previouosly would fail and I don't see any new game completely breaking that trend over the next 2-3 years. what was wrong with atlas??? it was fun to play during the betas/alphas, although it wasn't as good as broodwar or traditional RTS. it just needed some design changes and it could have been lightning in a bottle i think. especially if day9 had added anime girls and marketed it to korea and china instead of western markets..
I think atlas was a decent game, and it certainly had great room for growth. Not sure why people love to bash Atlas, I quite enjoyed it.
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On October 18 2017 13:33 SlammerIV wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2017 23:51 Endymion wrote:On October 17 2017 19:56 Hider wrote:On October 17 2017 19:16 aQuaSC wrote:On October 17 2017 17:48 Hider wrote:On October 17 2017 07:10 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Seems cool.
Not sure about doubling the health of everything--this seems like it could cause balance problems even at the level of the intended audience. Some units might not even be worth building. It's a huge buff to melee units. Anyway I am sure its a nice little fun mode that non Sc2 players will play for a bit (due to Totalbiscuits brand) and then after a little while they will move on, and the mod will be forgotten about. If you want to attracht a stable and large new playerbase you need to make a brand new game on a brand net platform. Preferably designed with microtransactions and continuous development in mind, I feel that games that are complete are not attracting people anymore. Or they are but for a really short period compared to other titles Back in the days of Wc3, custom games/mod were very attractive they were one of the only (decent) F2P options. Today there are so many opportunities ot play cheap/free games. There are also a ton of things a new RTS game needs to do corect from a design-perspective. It's quite challenging and 99% of developers have failed and a large portion of new developers will fail because they don't understand how to make an easy-to-learn difficult to master game. E.g. Day9's atlas is a prime example of what not to do when making an RTS game. Instead developers needs to figure out how you make awesome and skill-based micro interactions. If you don't understand that, then nothing else (including business model / overall gameplay model/strategic choices etc.) will matter - the game will fail. It's easier to make an FPS that is "fun" for a large audience than an RTS, however I think if you do everything right, then the RTS game can be even more fun for casuals as well - hence why I am predicting a return to popularity in 5-10 years. So even though I am a long-term "Bull" on the the potential of the RTS-genre, it's been easy to predict that all the RTS games launched previouosly would fail and I don't see any new game completely breaking that trend over the next 2-3 years. what was wrong with atlas??? it was fun to play during the betas/alphas, although it wasn't as good as broodwar or traditional RTS. it just needed some design changes and it could have been lightning in a bottle i think. especially if day9 had added anime girls and marketed it to korea and china instead of western markets.. I think atlas was a decent game, and it certainly had great room for growth. Not sure why people love to bash Atlas, I quite enjoyed it.
i think Atlas gets bashed because the company behind the game did a very bad job of "managing expectations" of their customer base. how many people at the company had experience marketing a game? it felt like that # was right around 0.
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On October 18 2017 08:47 ClanWars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2017 07:51 grizzlybear wrote:
I played several games yesterday evening. I enjoyed them. I had a few questions about the mod.
If I understand correctly, this mod is targeted at more casual players who find competitive StarCraft too intimidating. To quote the website, "this game mode lowers the barrier to entry and allows friends to play with each other without having to be the same skill level."
In that case, why was the 1v1 game mode chosen? That feels to me much more intimidating than team games, especially comp stomps. I would like to try this with more casual friends in a 4v4 against the AI. However, I'm not sure the same applies to 1v1. For instance, the game's description cites the three core tenets of great RTS gameplay as "build your dream base, recruit a powerful army, and annihilate your enemy". But the nature of 1v1 is that, typically, one player does the annihilating and the other player gets annihilated. Now, if you play the ladder and force yourself to always play opponents very close to you in skill level, then you can usually avoid this problem. But, the target audience is supposed to not like this, and anyway the mod is intended for players with potentially very large skill differences.
Based on your responses in this thread, you're trying to "[make] a version that looks like the eSports versions and is relatable to the audience". Is it not possible to do this with a team game, or any other game mode? For instance, does Blizzard have data on the attachment rate of the co-op player base to StarCraft esports compared with players who only play 1v1?
Thanks for making this mod and I look forward to playing it again this evening. I don't believe 1v1 is inherently "not casual friendly". What I do believe is that there's a lot of things put in the way of people who want to play 1v1 that aren't the opponent and that should be the only thing between them and winning.
Btw, did the mod attempt to do anything to make it easier to survive without a "good build" in the opening game?
E.g. if a new player plays the mod and plays against a slightly better player that does a basic rush and losses the game in 6 minutes, that might not be a fun experience.
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United Kingdom20306 Posts
On October 18 2017 13:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2017 13:33 SlammerIV wrote:On October 17 2017 23:51 Endymion wrote:On October 17 2017 19:56 Hider wrote:On October 17 2017 19:16 aQuaSC wrote:On October 17 2017 17:48 Hider wrote:On October 17 2017 07:10 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Seems cool.
Not sure about doubling the health of everything--this seems like it could cause balance problems even at the level of the intended audience. Some units might not even be worth building. It's a huge buff to melee units. Anyway I am sure its a nice little fun mode that non Sc2 players will play for a bit (due to Totalbiscuits brand) and then after a little while they will move on, and the mod will be forgotten about. If you want to attracht a stable and large new playerbase you need to make a brand new game on a brand net platform. Preferably designed with microtransactions and continuous development in mind, I feel that games that are complete are not attracting people anymore. Or they are but for a really short period compared to other titles Back in the days of Wc3, custom games/mod were very attractive they were one of the only (decent) F2P options. Today there are so many opportunities ot play cheap/free games. There are also a ton of things a new RTS game needs to do corect from a design-perspective. It's quite challenging and 99% of developers have failed and a large portion of new developers will fail because they don't understand how to make an easy-to-learn difficult to master game. E.g. Day9's atlas is a prime example of what not to do when making an RTS game. Instead developers needs to figure out how you make awesome and skill-based micro interactions. If you don't understand that, then nothing else (including business model / overall gameplay model/strategic choices etc.) will matter - the game will fail. It's easier to make an FPS that is "fun" for a large audience than an RTS, however I think if you do everything right, then the RTS game can be even more fun for casuals as well - hence why I am predicting a return to popularity in 5-10 years. So even though I am a long-term "Bull" on the the potential of the RTS-genre, it's been easy to predict that all the RTS games launched previouosly would fail and I don't see any new game completely breaking that trend over the next 2-3 years. what was wrong with atlas??? it was fun to play during the betas/alphas, although it wasn't as good as broodwar or traditional RTS. it just needed some design changes and it could have been lightning in a bottle i think. especially if day9 had added anime girls and marketed it to korea and china instead of western markets.. I think atlas was a decent game, and it certainly had great room for growth. Not sure why people love to bash Atlas, I quite enjoyed it. i think Atlas gets bashed because the company behind the game did a very bad job of "managing expectations" of their customer base. how many people at the company had experience marketing a game? it felt like that # was right around 0.
I hadn't even heard that it had released yet
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