EPTI know there are people who like Lotv more than the other versions, but atleast for me WoL late 2011-early 2012 and most of HotS was a better time.
Terran Early-game Discussion - Page 3
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Luolis
Finland7164 Posts
I know there are people who like Lotv more than the other versions, but atleast for me WoL late 2011-early 2012 and most of HotS was a better time. | ||
|
yht9657
1810 Posts
| ||
|
Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
| ||
|
yoshi7319b
18 Posts
On October 05 2017 18:20 yht9657 wrote: Yeah right and Terran players believe their race is supposed to have 2 completely different yet equally powerful play styles while the other 2 races never do, so clearly the master race deserves to have more fun and diversity to play with. i don´t know much about the game, but isn´t going stargate or robo or twilight a decision you make very early on and that has more severe implications for the late-early and midgame than whether you build your fac and starport after 1,2 oder 17 raxes? so saying protoss as one of "the other 2 races" has less diverse and equally powerful playstyles than 2 seems odd. but maybe i´m wrong. | ||
|
Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
On October 05 2017 17:57 Luolis wrote: Well, i kinda agree that playing terran in earlygame feels more straightforward and less creative than before atleast for me. I don't think that's anywhere near Lotvs biggest problem though. I feel like the starting worker change, mineral change and almost all the new units (i think only ravagers and lurkers are something i don't actively hate) just made the game much less enjoyable for me. It feels like there is no soul compared to the earlier versions of SC2. I know there are people who like Lotv more than the other versions, but atleast for me WoL late 2011-early 2012 and most of HotS was a better time. i completely agree with you. In my opinion almost every new unit just brought a lot of unnecessary problems to the game without adding any meaningful depth to it. | ||
|
xongnox
540 Posts
In TvP in particular we are forced to reactor marines + defensive factory unit(s) (mine or cyclone) just to not die to unscoutable shit (i.e fast proxy oracle after FE plus some adepts), witch makes all terran builds very boring and predictable for the toss (who have a tons of legit opening variation in this MU, thanks to the mothership... ) Playing FE into 3rax in TvP, a TvP signature build from early WoL to the end of HoTs, is totally non-viable (can't defend efficiently nearly everything protoss throw at you, esp. oracles+adepts ). Some pro tested it a few times after CC first, but it's not that conclusive, to say the least. So multirax oriented players were nerfed hard in LoTV (Polt, ..), while 1-1-1ers still did fine ( TY, Gumi, Byun, etc. ). In TvZ we have more variations, mostly because zergs players don't throw random early shit at us half the games like T and P ^^, and Z is more easy to scout (no random proxy, no pylon killing your scout), so we can do a lot more non very-safe builds on ladder or even in pro games. Still, when we abuse non-viable builds for long time, even zergs players finds ways to scout&punish un-viable shit (i.e Buyn fast 2 stim drop killed with ravager/ling push 10 sec before stim ) So yeah openings in LOTV are more boring from a terran perspective, especially in TvP, but it's probably not the biggest issue with LOTV, or at least it is only one of the multiple consequences of some major issues (like mothership core overcharge non-sense, stupid T1 ravager to counter stupid early liberator harass, etc. ) | ||
|
A.Alm
Sweden535 Posts
| ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 05 2017 19:21 yoshi7319b wrote: i don´t know much about the game, but isn´t going stargate or robo or twilight a decision you make very early on and that has more severe implications for the late-early and midgame than whether you build your fac and starport after 1,2 oder 17 raxes? so saying protoss as one of "the other 2 races" has less diverse and equally powerful playstyles than 2 seems odd. but maybe i´m wrong. Yes, Protoss has 3 ways how to achieve the end game composition. The question is whether the end game composition is always the same or is different(in standard games  ). I don't watch LotV so I don't know. In HotS we had 3 tech paths how to get into late game, but the lategame composition was just 1. | ||
|
yht9657
1810 Posts
On October 05 2017 19:21 yoshi7319b wrote: i don´t know much about the game, but isn´t going stargate or robo or twilight a decision you make very early on and that has more severe implications for the late-early and midgame than whether you build your fac and starport after 1,2 oder 17 raxes? so saying protoss as one of "the other 2 races" has less diverse and equally powerful playstyles than 2 seems odd. but maybe i´m wrong. Bio and Mech have completely different unit composition, upgrades, playstyle and strats, while Protoss does have different openings and early-game tech choices they always tend to complete all three techtrees to gain the perfect deathball composition, for example in PVZ the Protoss may go for either SG, DT or Robo/TC opening, but after that they always get immortal/archon/chargelots supported by HTs and later into Skytoss comp. | ||
|
Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
I was talking about the diversity in the early game and how limited terran is in their opening choices and what the reasons are. | ||
|
Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
On October 05 2017 20:58 xongnox wrote: As a Terran i feel the early openings, at decent level, mostly in TvT and TvP, are nearly a non-choice : viable macro builds are like one unique build (gaz first reaper expo factory then variation on 1/1/1), and yeah from a terran history perspective it's pretty boring. In TvP in particular we are forced to reactor marines + defensive factory unit(s) (mine or cyclone) just to not die to unscoutable shit (i.e fast proxy oracle after FE plus some adepts), witch makes all terran builds very boring and predictable for the toss (who have a tons of legit opening variation in this MU, thanks to the mothership... ) Playing FE into 3rax in TvP, a TvP signature build from early WoL to the end of HoTs, is totally non-viable (can't defend efficiently nearly everything protoss throw at you, esp. oracles+adepts ). Some pro tested it a few times after CC first, but it's not that conclusive, to say the least. So multirax oriented players were nerfed hard in LoTV (Polt, ..), while 1-1-1ers still did fine ( TY, Gumi, Byun, etc. ). In TvZ we have more variations, mostly because zergs players don't throw random early shit at us half the games like T and P ^^, and Z is more easy to scout (no random proxy, no pylon killing your scout), so we can do a lot more non very-safe builds on ladder or even in pro games. Still, when we abuse non-viable builds for long time, even zergs players finds ways to scout&punish un-viable shit (i.e Buyn fast 2 stim drop killed with ravager/ling push 10 sec before stim ) So yeah openings in LOTV are more boring from a terran perspective, especially in TvP, but it's probably not the biggest issue with LOTV, or at least it is only one of the multiple consequences of some major issues (like mothership core overcharge non-sense, stupid T1 ravager to counter stupid early liberator harass, etc. ) yes exactly you nailed it ! | ||
| ||
