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4 Posts
With sOs already having earned a spot in the finals,  Dark and  INnoVation took the stage in the more anticipated semifinal. Sporting the best ZvT and TvZ in the world, the former teammates faced off to see who would enter the finals as the prohibitive favorite.
INnoVation opened game one with a two-port speed banshee build that Dark pushed back with minimal losses. Dark moved into roach/hydra as INnoVation's siege tank count grew. He tried to take a position mid-map, but Dark’s blinding clouds and well spread army put him up 1-0.
Having split Ascension to Aiur, Dark’s brood lord/viper/hydra fought to an impasse against INnoVation’s mech. Despite losing almost 30 SCV’s to burrowed roaches, INnoVation reloaded and set up a siege between two of Dark's mining bases that broke the Zerg.
INnoVation’s proxy 1/1/1 killed Dark's third and main, but Dark built a nydus worm and evacuated his drones. Having swapped mains, INnoVation sieged Dark's third with marines, tanks and liberators, but was overwhelmed by ravagers, zergling, speedless banes and queens to concede the lead.
In the next game, Dark just barely held INnoVation's bunker rush off two proxied barracks. While he managed to take a third, INnoVation's follow up hellbat/banshee push was more than enough to tie the series 2-2.
Dark decided to counter INnoVation's mech with ling/bane/hydra on Whirlwind, but was unable to inflict any economic damage and prevent INnoVation from rolling across the map with hellions and siege tanks. The Machine killed Dark's fourth before taking his first lead in the series 3-2.
With a spot in the finals on the line, INnoVation dared to bunker rush a second time. His rush succeeded in killing Dark's natural, but Dark turtled on one base and sprouted a nydus worm in INnoVation's main. INnoVation tried to defend with tanks and banshees, but corrosive biles and transfuses gave Dark the lasting power he needed to take the series into the final map.
The series would be decided on Abyssal Reef. Dark was able to reach a hydra/brood lord/viper composition that looked likely to close out the series, but INnoVation split his mech army, constantly killing workers, leveraging his superior economy while starving Dark out. A final push with a thor heavy force sealed the deal, sending INnoVation to the finals.
He will now face sOs in the Code S Finals with history on his side. INnoVation is a two time GSL champion (three if you count GSL vs the World), winning in season 3 of 2014 and 2015. He has also defeated sOs once in a final, during the WCS Season 1 Finals in 2013.
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Welp - welcome back end of Hots.
Super excited for a blizzcon full of split map max remax remax remax mech vs hive tech games.
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Awesome series, gutted for Dark, I think Innovation just seized the opportunity when Dark was out of position in the last game, that along with the mad management of the harassment meant he lost the game.
Game 3 was absolutely wild and definitely the game of the year, hoping for a good finals between sOs and Inno, and also hoping Dark can do well in SSL and Blizzcon!
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Man, this style may not be 100% new but Dark's responses to the banshee -> mech just weren't great. Will probably take some time to figure out, I'm proud of my boy for doing so well against an unexpected style
That being said, this is a cool era for mech. Wonder if any of these openings (2 port banshee, thor drop, etc.) will ever become like the FanTaSy TvZ mech build from BW that single handedly revitalizes the style. This 2 port banshee seems promising
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And the double championship drought continues. It's just too damn hard to maintain winning form in two simultaneous Starleagues, I suppose.
Dark played like a god, and gave Inno one hell of a fight. But the Machine could not be denied.
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On September 10 2017 02:25 pvsnp wrote:
And the double championship drought continues. It's just too damn hard to maintain winning form in two simultaneous Starleagues, I suppose.
The odds of winning one are so slim. Two is just ridiculous.
And if you want a chance of winning any individual league, you pretty much have to devote all your practice hours to it anyway
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This recap gets the technical details of what happened correct, but misses how thrilling the games really were. Game 3, in particular, was amazing.
I think Artosis even said at the end that this was the best series of the year, and I heartily agree.
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On September 10 2017 00:24 DomeGetta wrote:
Welp - welcome back end of Hots.
Super excited for a blizzcon full of split map max remax remax remax mech vs hive tech games.
More interesting to most people than exploring the finer details of timing attacks...
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On September 10 2017 00:24 DomeGetta wrote:
Welp - welcome back end of Hots.
Super excited for a blizzcon full of split map max remax remax remax mech vs hive tech games.
It actually isn't. Not at all similar. Late-HotS mech revolved around turtling and defending into a sky transition. To contrast, current mech is completely ground-based (except Vikings for AA) and ends the game with maxed pushes.
Aggressive mech is waaay more fun to watch then a dozen BCs huddling behind a wall of PDDs.
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btw isn't this another 2 year run zerg hasn't won a GSL again.............. Blizzard. Balance team. Hello, think Mcfly think!
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On September 10 2017 04:22 NomaKasd wrote:
btw isn't this another 2 year run zerg hasn't won a GSL again.............. Blizzard. Balance team. Hello, think Mcfly think!
It's really not Blizzard's fault that soO can't win a GSL to save his life.
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On September 10 2017 00:24 DomeGetta wrote:
Welp - welcome back end of Hots.
Super excited for a blizzcon full of split map max remax remax remax mech vs hive tech games.
there was a split map game?
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Just watched the VOD, great series!!
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What an awesome series. Sad for Dark
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On September 10 2017 04:48 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 00:24 DomeGetta wrote:
Welp - welcome back end of Hots.
Super excited for a blizzcon full of split map max remax remax remax mech vs hive tech games.
there was a split map game?
Mech merely existing gives people flashbacks to the 2 hour games of 2015
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People complaining without watching games are so ridiculous.. both player played really well, exciting games, gratz to Bogus.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 10 2017 07:29 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 04:48 Charoisaur wrote:On September 10 2017 00:24 DomeGetta wrote:
Welp - welcome back end of Hots.
Super excited for a blizzcon full of split map max remax remax remax mech vs hive tech games.
there was a split map game? Mech merely existing gives people flashbacks to the 2 hour games of 2015
2 hour games of 2015?
The only 2 hour mech v z game i recall was 2014's Soulkey vs Reality slugfest and that was with old swarm hosts.
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On September 10 2017 08:25 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 07:29 Fango wrote:On September 10 2017 04:48 Charoisaur wrote:On September 10 2017 00:24 DomeGetta wrote:
Welp - welcome back end of Hots.
Super excited for a blizzcon full of split map max remax remax remax mech vs hive tech games.
there was a split map game? Mech merely existing gives people flashbacks to the 2 hour games of 2015 2 hour games of 2015? The only 2 hour mech v z game i recall was 2014's Soulkey vs Reality slugfest and that was with old swarm hosts.
HoTS time was faster than LoTV's I guess. 2 hours might be exaggerating, but there were a couple that got disgustingly long
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Seems like it was an amazing series. Excited for the sOs vs. Innovation grand finals!
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Great series. Now please stop buffing mech in the new patch.
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On September 10 2017 09:56 leublix wrote:
Great series. Now please stop buffing mech in the new patch.
They won't stop until Mech is viable against Protoss.
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This was one of the bes series this year in my opinion!
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On September 10 2017 00:19 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
INnoVation’s proxy 1/1/1 killed Dark's third and main, but Dark built a nydus worm and evacuated his drones. Having swapped mains, INnoVation sieged Dark's third with marines, tanks and liberators, but was overwhelmed by ravagers, zergling, speedless banes and queens to concede the lead.
Jesus we need more passion in these recaps. It doesn't even feel like the writer even watched the games live.
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On September 10 2017 04:22 NomaKasd wrote:
btw isn't this another 2 year run zerg hasn't won a GSL again.............. Blizzard. Balance team. Hello, think Mcfly think!
he lost just 3-4 why you talking about balance lol, and soo lost his 2 finals in lotv so...
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On September 10 2017 09:56 leublix wrote:
Great series. Now please stop buffing mech in the new patch.
You are ridiculous, it looks like INno prepared this BO and games plan really hard, because you can't win anymore as bio player, and Dark wasn't really ready for this.
It's not a balance problem.
And if he can win 4-3 because of the IMBA IMBA IMBA of new and surprising moves and builds, what about the best bio players getting 3-0ed because of hydras (and its the meta ) ?
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Inno better win GSL.
Otherwise, this will allow TL writers to craft out a "Neeb > sOs > Inno (meta/balance/peak)" formula to justify Neeb being Top 5 GOAT (Top 3 permanently reserved for MVP, Taeja and Life)...
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Incredibly good series. Well deserved by Inno. I am guessing his display scared sOs a bit. He seems much less predictable now.
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On September 10 2017 17:40 zealotstim wrote:
Incredibly good series. Well deserved by Inno. I am guessing his display scared sOs a bit. He seems much less predictable now.
Actually i think Inno should better play solid/macro games where he cannot lose against sOs. Trying weird builds would not be great since sOs is the best at chaotic games.
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Innovation really is becoming Mvp: if he wins the finals he has 3 code S wins, 1 world championship win, and 1 code S silver just like Mvp. Also like Mvp, he's the GOAT
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Dark and Inno have met twice in the semifinals (never in the finals) and both times Inno has won the decider match with a new mech build. Hellion/Cyclone at Gyeonggi, and 2-port Banshee in GSL.
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On September 10 2017 01:19 yubo56 wrote:
Man, this style may not be 100% new but Dark's responses to the banshee -> mech just weren't great. Will probably take some time to figure out, I'm proud of my boy for doing so well against an unexpected style
That being said, this is a cool era for mech. Wonder if any of these openings (2 port banshee, thor drop, etc.) will ever become like the FanTaSy TvZ mech build from BW that single handedly revitalizes the style. This 2 port banshee seems promising
I don't know how you came to that conclusion, I think he shut down the banshee harass like 2/3 times.
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On September 11 2017 04:54 Snijjer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 01:19 yubo56 wrote:
Man, this style may not be 100% new but Dark's responses to the banshee -> mech just weren't great. Will probably take some time to figure out, I'm proud of my boy for doing so well against an unexpected style
That being said, this is a cool era for mech. Wonder if any of these openings (2 port banshee, thor drop, etc.) will ever become like the FanTaSy TvZ mech build from BW that single handedly revitalizes the style. This 2 port banshee seems promising I don't know how you came to that conclusion, I think he shut down the banshee harass like 2/3 times.
The point of the build is not to do game ending damage with the banshees. It's to safely transition into a mech timing attack with no fear of swarmhosts. Dark didn't really know how to stop the maxed out pushes very well, his vipers were not a good enough solution to win the series.
I'll be honest though I do believe even with quick thors available, muta into hive might be good vs it (not too many muta). maybe getting muta will let u get SH too, u dont have to worry about banshees
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On September 11 2017 05:30 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 04:54 Snijjer wrote:On September 10 2017 01:19 yubo56 wrote:
Man, this style may not be 100% new but Dark's responses to the banshee -> mech just weren't great. Will probably take some time to figure out, I'm proud of my boy for doing so well against an unexpected style
That being said, this is a cool era for mech. Wonder if any of these openings (2 port banshee, thor drop, etc.) will ever become like the FanTaSy TvZ mech build from BW that single handedly revitalizes the style. This 2 port banshee seems promising I don't know how you came to that conclusion, I think he shut down the banshee harass like 2/3 times. The point of the build is not to do game ending damage with the banshees. It's to safely transition into a mech timing attack with no fear of swarmhosts. Dark didn't really know how to stop the maxed out pushes very well, his vipers were not a good enough solution to win the series. I'll be honest though I do believe even with quick thors available, muta into hive might be good vs it (not too many muta). maybe getting muta will let u get SH too, u dont have to worry about banshees
The Thor buff was a mistake on Blizzard's part i feel, they should have buffed the useless anti armored weapon, but mutalisks are a somewhat poor response now.
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On September 11 2017 07:57 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 05:30 nath wrote:On September 11 2017 04:54 Snijjer wrote:On September 10 2017 01:19 yubo56 wrote:
Man, this style may not be 100% new but Dark's responses to the banshee -> mech just weren't great. Will probably take some time to figure out, I'm proud of my boy for doing so well against an unexpected style
That being said, this is a cool era for mech. Wonder if any of these openings (2 port banshee, thor drop, etc.) will ever become like the FanTaSy TvZ mech build from BW that single handedly revitalizes the style. This 2 port banshee seems promising I don't know how you came to that conclusion, I think he shut down the banshee harass like 2/3 times. The point of the build is not to do game ending damage with the banshees. It's to safely transition into a mech timing attack with no fear of swarmhosts. Dark didn't really know how to stop the maxed out pushes very well, his vipers were not a good enough solution to win the series. I'll be honest though I do believe even with quick thors available, muta into hive might be good vs it (not too many muta). maybe getting muta will let u get SH too, u dont have to worry about banshees The Thor buff was a mistake on Blizzard's part i feel, they should have buffed the useless anti armored weapon, but mutalisks are a somewhat poor response now.
The Thor buff killed Muta/Ling/Bane as a viable ZvT style. The Hydra buff killed bio TvZ. Revert both so we can have good old 4M vs LBM again.
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On September 10 2017 16:07 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 09:56 leublix wrote:
Great series. Now please stop buffing mech in the new patch. You are ridiculous, it looks like INno prepared this BO and games plan really hard, because you can't win anymore as bio player, and Dark wasn't really ready for this. It's not a balance problem. And if he can win 4-3 because of the IMBA IMBA IMBA of new and surprising moves and builds, what about the best bio players getting 3-0ed because of hydras (and its the meta ) ?
if both play perfect, mech wins. it IS a balance problem. ( and imho dark played better in this series )
banes and hydras: speed banes on creep can sniped by pure micro of the best bio players. and get picked up by the medivac if it gets close. it happens all the time in high pro level TvZs hydra bane is fine. nothing imba there
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If played perfectly T wins. That doesn't matter though, as no one can play perfectly.
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On September 11 2017 08:34 pvsnp wrote:
The Hydra buff killed bio TvZ.
Wat
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amazing series. too bad inno is gonna murder stomp sos so hard, even though im rooting for inno to get destroyed. this semifinals should've been the actual finals. game 3 wow lolololol
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On September 11 2017 17:23 Elentos wrote:Wat
I didn't even know hydras were buffed recently
The map pool is probably the reason for the recent mechaning. Although I still think that Inno/TY/Maru etc would still be killing zergs just as hard as they used to with bio
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On September 11 2017 17:23 Elentos wrote:Wat
Inno said it himself, didn't you hear? 10% TvZ winrate.
No but seriously, LBH is just strong as fuck. When a single build dominates both the ZvP and ZvT metas, and forces both Protoss and Terran into major metagame shifts, that's one hell of a strong build. While I wouldn't say Hydra/Ling/Bane is OP, per se, it would be if the TvZ and PvZ metas didn't change to accommodate it. Both mass Oracle and mech arose out of the need to circumvent the powerful midgame that Hydra/Ling/Bane gives to Zerg.
ZvP is out of this context scope, but in ZvT LBH just flat-out stronger than LBM used to be. This is the same argument I was making (to you I think) months ago when Solar was the only one using LBH. Bio-Tank and 4M can both work, but even guys like TY/Inno struggle to end things in the midgame (current map pool doesn't help). Gambling on a massive tank push before Ultras is basically a coinflip, and if it fails Terran is just dead (refer Dark vs TY). The alternative is not to commit so heavily and just harass, but the best-case result of that is that Terran transitions a bit earlier into lategame tech.
And TvZ lategame is, simply put, Zerg-favored. Bio-Liberator w/ range can fend off Ultras, but Infestors kill kiting and Corruptors/Vipers neutralize Libs. Eventually the BLs come out and Terran is forced into Vikings+Ghosts. MMM/Liberator/Viking/Ghost is just asking for a micro mistake.
It can be done. Lategame TvZ is not impossible by any means, but there's a reason Terran traditionally prefers to end things in the midgame. And until LBH came along, they could.
A good example of the aforementioned is probably Serral vs INnoVation at GSL vs the World. Inno throwing away ~30 supply let Serral transition into lategame, and then he survived multiple maxed Bio-Tank pushes, a Bio-Liberator doomdrop, then another maxed Bio-Liberator push, until Inno finally admitted that he needed Vikings+Ghosts and made two more maxed pushes that eventually won him the game.
And I don't think I'm stretching it to say that Inno is generally considered a tier or two above Serral, especially in that MU. That being the case, what happens when you put a Zerg of equal skill against Inno? I'd heavily favor Dark, for instance, over any Terran alive in the lategame.
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On September 12 2017 04:57 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 17:23 Elentos wrote:On September 11 2017 08:34 pvsnp wrote:
The Hydra buff killed bio TvZ. Wat I didn't even know hydras were buffed recently The map pool is probably the reason for the recent mechaning. Although I still think that Inno/TY/Maru etc would still be killing zergs just as hard as they used to with bio
You saw Dark vs TY, right?
Sure, TY was being an idiot going up to 100 scvs, but Dark stomped the supposed master-of-Terran-lategame hard.
LBH has changed the playing field. It's simply better than LBM and Roach-Ravager-Infestor used to be. Parade pushes don't work anymore. Bio TvZ = lategame, barring a massive skill differential.
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a great series. SC2 games played by the best players are becoming so much like games of Red Alert 2 or Red Alert 3 with crazy/bizarre antics. awesome stuff.
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EPT
2017 Global StarCraft II League Season 3/Code S
