TLO challenges Avilo

On June 09 2017 23:24 Zulu23 wrote:
Avilo will have the proof that Terran is inferior and Zerg superior balanced in this MU

On June 10 2017 01:24 Aegwynn wrote:
This reminds me Avilo whining to Catz about Queen and Catz beating him without making a single queen next game lol.
Avilo never had balls to accept any challenge in the past and never will. TLO probably knows that but still, giving a low na gm player this much attention is really disappointing, especially from a serious player like TLO.

On June 10 2017 02:33 derpistole wrote:
There is absolutely NO WAY that TLO wins.

Only Chance for TLO is when Avilo sticks to MECH.

MMM without banes = gg

On June 10 2017 02:33 derpistole wrote:
There is absolutely NO WAY that TLO wins.

Only Chance for TLO is when Avilo sticks to MECH.

MMM without banes = gg

On June 10 2017 04:03 Charoisaur wrote:
Avilo won't accept it and honestly I wouldn't either.
If you play in a showmatch where your opponent has such a handicap it's clear that the only purpose of the showmatch is to make fun of you.
If he loses he'll be completely embarrassed and if he wins he gains nothing because everyone will (rightfully) say he won only because of the handicap.

On June 10 2017 04:02 woopr wrote:
clever by TLO to only offer $100 to avilo, when he knows the value of the attention he'll get by being in a showmatch with avilo will be far more than $100

i don't think avilo will let TLO leech off him for so little money tho

On June 10 2017 00:13 Nakajin wrote:
Where does that come from? I mean outside of avilo insulting everyone he meet, anything in particular?

On June 10 2017 05:40 phodacbiet wrote:
Do you remember when it was? I would like to see that match. Avilo vs Vibe was great to watch.

On June 10 2017 05:17 AbouSV wrote:
Wow:

https://twitter.com/matcherino_/status/873202873445658624

On June 10 2017 05:21 opisska wrote:
I wonder where does matecherino make all the money? Because they surely are happy to pitch in very often.

On June 10 2017 04:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote:


To be fair the skill difference between them is such that any challenge format would be silly.

On June 10 2017 06:03 Riner1212 wrote:
TLO what if avilo 5-0 you? then would you considering retiring from the sport?

there is that possibility lol.

On June 10 2017 09:03 Lexender wrote:
I'm not even sure what he is trying to prove with this.

That he is better than Avilo? I don't think anyone doubts that.

That he strat is imba? Wouldn't that just gave the reason to Avilo?

That mech is not viable in TvZ? Same thing as above.

I mean, I can see it for the money if avilo accepts the challenge but not if hes trying to make a point.

On June 10 2017 09:06 TaKeTV wrote:


It would proof that avilo isn't good and this is the reason he is losing TvZ. Not swarmhosts, not ravagers... but his gameplay.

On June 10 2017 09:20 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote:



Even if Avilo loses those 5 games it doesn't mean he isn't good, it just means he lost 5 times in a row in a given day against TLO. He's a consistent low ranked Grandmaster playing a suboptimal style. Sure, he's not good enough to be near the actual pro scene, so what? TLO currently doesn't compare to the top pro's either does he? TLO is just another pro currently.

So when can you start blaming the game instead of yourself? When your top 10? top 20? top 50? And that also means that the current balance team has a useless opinion because they aren't top GM. Even David Kim who was a grandmaster with all races still has a useless opinion if he isn't as good as TLO if that is the ''proof'' we'll get out of him beating Avilo a couple of times.

This argument of getting gud before being allowed to say things about the game is asinine. I hope TLO is just acting like a clown for our entertainment or out of a grudge against Avilo.

On June 10 2017 10:17 LongShot27 wrote:
Im no avilo fan, by any means but TLO is gonna lose 100 bucks

On June 10 2017 10:39 TT1 wrote:


When there's a big gap in skill it really doesn't matter.. he's just gonna roll him with superior mechanics. TLO's unit selection still allows him to play a very strong macro oriented/timing style. He'll just a-move him with way more shit, simple as that.

But well.. maybe avilo can get lucky 1 game (or maybe he could prepare snipe builds on certain maps, i dont think he's that type of player tho).

On June 10 2017 11:06 TT1 wrote:
hes obviously gonna mix in nydus play to throw him off his game as well.. on top of doing normal roach timings and/or later timings.

and saying its grandmaster vs grandmaster isnt very accurate. it's a top foreigner grandmaster player (eu + na combined) vs a low NA grandmaster player.. big gap.

On June 10 2017 11:32 TT1 wrote:
no matter the amount of theorycrafting you want to do he still wont be able to overcome the skill gap. no offense but your perspective is that of a player who has never played a high level game of SC, it's extremely apparent.

On June 10 2017 11:59 showstealer1829 wrote:
It will never happen.

Avilo will never accept it. Because if he did and lost he couldn't con money out of people any more. So in the end intresting theory but it won't ever amount to anything

On June 10 2017 11:47 Suchbalancemuchwow wrote:


Wow. Great argument. Okay, Good day.

I can do this too by the way, you seem like an idiot because you don't capitalize your sentences. it's extremely apparent.

Hilarious.





User was warned for this post

On June 10 2017 09:06 TaKeTV wrote:


It would proof that avilo isn't good and this is the reason he is losing TvZ. Not swarmhosts, not ravagers... but his gameplay.

On June 10 2017 13:38 Azzur wrote:
Avilo should accept the challenge - I don't see how he can lose if he goes PF expand and turtles on 3-4 bases. All he needs is tanks + hellions behind PFs to hold the entire zerg swarm (no siege breaking units). Avilo can then safely tech to BCs + Ravens and use spellcaster energy to slowly whittle down TLOs army.

On June 10 2017 15:47 Ej_ wrote:
Why does anyone here act like this match would have the slightest chance of happening?

On June 10 2017 16:39 ninazerg wrote:



I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I'm not sure why you choose to critique TT1's slight grammar error, when you yourself make some really odd choices in terms of grammar and sentence structure.

Like, "Okay, Good day."

Why is 'good' capitalized? It's not a proper noun, as far I can tell. Then, the next sentence you wrote is almost downright baffling:

"I can do this too by the way, you seem like an idiot because you don't capitalize your sentences. it's extremely apparent."

Which, with some corrections, should read:

"I, too, can form ad hominem arguments. For example, I could say: 'You seem like an idiot because you don't capitalize the beginning of your sentences', but that would not be productive."

The sentence "it's extremely apparent" (which, ironically, is not capitalized at the beginning) can be omitted entirely. Furthermore, I think it would have been much more productive for you to reply with something along the lines of: "My level of skill may or may not have an influence on my opinion, however, that seems irrelevant to the larger point of my argument. Regardless of me being Bronze or Grandmaster, I do not think TLO can overcome the self-imposed handicaps he's placed upon himself to be victorious in every game. I may be wrong, but that remains to be seen."

On June 10 2017 08:55 blade55555 wrote:


The odds of that happening I would put at 1%. Avilo is awful when compared to pros who play the game. There is a reason he's always low GM. I would be shocked if TLO didn't 5-0 him. It's really not hard to beat Avilo.

On June 10 2017 17:31 Cascade wrote:

If you say that the probability of avilo winning 5-0 is 1%, then you are saying that there is a 0.01^(1/5) = 40% chance for avilo winning one game. Which means a 1 - 0.01^(1/5) = 60% chance of TL winning one game. Which is a (1 - 0.01^(1/5))^5 = 8% chance of TLO winning 5 in a row. And that sounds pretty low, seeing how confident he is in the challenge.

So in conclusion, I think you are overestimating avilos chances with 1%.

On June 10 2017 19:56 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:

im not sure but TLO is a top progamer and avilo is some big noob.i dont really understand what TLO is doing here except maybe getting some hype for him.^^ and so avilo haters can dinner him over and over.

On June 10 2017 17:31 Cascade wrote:

If you say that the probability of avilo winning 5-0 is 1%, then you are saying that there is a 0.01^(1/5) = 40% chance for avilo winning one game. Which means a 1 - 0.01^(1/5) = 60% chance of TL winning one game. Which is a (1 - 0.01^(1/5))^5 = 8% chance of TLO winning 5 in a row. And that sounds pretty low, seeing how confident he is in the challenge.

So in conclusion, I think you are overestimating avilos chances with 1%.

On June 09 2017 23:18 Tryneus wrote:

What you guys think? SC2 needs some kind of rivalry huh? Remind me of old days, Idra rage etc. I believe people still miss that kind of negative emotions.

On June 10 2017 17:31 Cascade wrote:

If you say that the probability of avilo winning 5-0 is 1%, then you are saying that there is a 0.01^(1/5) = 40% chance for avilo winning one game. Which means a 1 - 0.01^(1/5) = 60% chance of TL winning one game. Which is a (1 - 0.01^(1/5))^5 = 8% chance of TLO winning 5 in a row. And that sounds pretty low, seeing how confident he is in the challenge.

So in conclusion, I think you are overestimating avilos chances with 1%.

On June 10 2017 22:55 Sogetsu wrote:
The skill gap is big but not that huge with the handicap he is giving, so I wouldn't be so sure TLO will win 5-0, reminds me of Flash when played SC2, he was "god" and what happened? Mechanically he was better than most players and it wasn't easy.

On June 10 2017 22:55 Sogetsu wrote:
It was a shame reading TLO but now TT1 as well...

The skill gap is big but not that huge with the handicap he is giving, so I wouldn't be so sure TLO will win 5-0, reminds me of Flash when played SC2, he was "god" and what happened? Mechanically he was better than most players and it wasn't easy.

Also, not-that-good-pros mocking at someone like Avilo instead improving to not be ashamed when facing Koreans (or even other foreigners right now on top of them) is so silly to say the least.

I don't like Avilo, I don't even watch his streams, but sometimes he make good threads when talking for real in the forums, so he likes to act as a jerk and whinny guy sometimes and others he get serious, but it is his life, and I don't care that much about it.

I hope Avilo don't even waste time in this, because like a lot of people said, whatever is the result it will be Avilo a reason to claim stupid things or to whine about balance even more...
Please, if you TT1 and TLO are so so good, go there and win something actually, or at least give us a decent showmatch vs Koreans.

On June 11 2017 05:57 TT1 wrote:


im a huge newb now

On June 11 2017 08:18 Liquid`Drone wrote:
whats the bw parallel to this? saying you're gonna win zvt with only hydra ling? tvp without vultures (or m&m?) zvp muta ling?

also, there should be a huuge difference between this type of self-imposed restriction being something you play with without announcing it, and stating the restriction as part of the challenge. The former I do very often, and then I can still beat opponents of comparable skill very often, but the latter really allows you to prepare a counter.

On June 11 2017 08:45 TT1 wrote:


hmm.. maybe giving vision to your opponent? if i wanted to prove that mechanics trump everything in BW, that's what i'd do.

On June 10 2017 21:55 xelnaga_empire wrote:
Avilo was watching the SSL finals tonight and was in the Youtube chat. More or less, he doesn't think he will get anything out of it. According to Avilo, if he wins, it was because TLO is handicapped. If TLO wins, then it will all be just a show to embarrass Avilo. He is not even interested in attempting to win the $600 (if that was the last reported amount of the prize from everybody contributing), even though he isn't risking his own money.

My guess is, Avilo values his pride more than the potential of winning $600. I would guess if the people who are donating money to the prize offer Avilo a minimum amount of money to simply participate in this show match, in addition to the total prize, Avilo may consider it. I don't know what this "minimum amount" is but you guys could probably negotiate this with Avilo. This way, Avilo walks away with something, even if he loses.

You can also increase the prize but I'm guessing Avilo feels even if you increase the prize, he may still walk away with nothing. This is why I suggest offering him a "minimum amount" for simply participating, separate of the total prize. Otherwise, I don't think this match is going to happen.

On June 11 2017 08:01 DieuCure wrote:
Avilo is right, accepting the challenge wouldnt be a good thing for him.

+ not really a smart mouv from TLO ...

On June 11 2017 00:39 ChristianS wrote:

This assumes they're independent probabilities though, right? But if you win game one and really tilt your opponent you'll have better odds for the next game. So maybe Avilo's chances are only 15% for game 1, but if he wins game 1 he'll tilt TLO and have 33% chance in game 2. Then if he wins that TLO will REALLY go on tilt, and avilo will have ~60% chance each game.

More significantly, I think a lot of the uncertainty in this case is in whether TLO's limitation is too great for his skill to overcome. So I might figure there's like a 2% chance that avilo finds some goody composition like hellion/ghost that just never, ever, ever dies to ling/queen, but if that happens he'll have a 90% chance every game because he just can't die. But if avilo doesn't find something like that it's like 100% that he doesn't win a game. So TLO would reasonably have 98% confidence that he'd win all 5 games, but avilo would have about a 1% chance of a 5-0.

I really just want TLO to do like a weekly TLAttack and play with goofy limitations against average players.

On June 11 2017 08:56 Hypertension wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Did anyone cath what Avilo's thoughts were on Innovation's mech play? I'm curious if he thinks Solar is subpar compared to the hackers he faces in NA low GM or if he would acknowledge that it is possible to win with mech play if used correctly.

On June 11 2017 08:18 Liquid`Drone wrote:
whats the bw parallel to this? saying you're gonna win zvt with only hydra ling? tvp without vultures (or m&m?) zvp muta ling?

also, there should be a huuge difference between this type of self-imposed restriction being something you play with without announcing it, and stating the restriction as part of the challenge. The former I do very often, and then I can still beat opponents of comparable skill very often, but the latter really allows you to prepare a counter.

On June 11 2017 09:59 lolfail9001 wrote:

bio+wraiths terran in bw tvp, if we had to make a parallel.

On June 11 2017 08:54 TaKeTV wrote:


While I believe TLO's mechanics are far superior avilo's mech style isn't really that heavy on mechanics but I feel his strategy is really lacking, especially if we consider mass roaches. He is going hellion heavy with 2 factories and late tanks which should be the biggest issue. At least from the WCS games I saw.

But we will never find out because he wont play :S

On June 11 2017 10:18 TaKeTV wrote:


That does not come close. Bio is not viable in Broodwar Terran vs Protoss - at least not on a good level. It can work as timing or in situations where you catch your opponent really offguard but not really as style. Chargelot + Storm is just too strong or reaver harassment.

On June 11 2017 08:56 Hypertension wrote:

Did anyone cath what Avilo's thoughts were on Innovation's mech play? I'm curious if he thinks Solar is subpar compared to the hackers he faces in NA low GM or if he would acknowledge that it is possible to win with mech play if used correctly.

Low tier masters NA Zerg coulda put up more of a fight vs Innovation in those games...

On June 11 2017 10:18 TaKeTV wrote:


That does not come close. Bio is not viable in Broodwar Terran vs Protoss - at least not on a good level. It can work as timing or in situations where you catch your opponent really offguard but not really as style. Chargelot + Storm is just too strong or reaver harassment.

Also, absolutely nothing is at stake here besides egos. The only reason why it would be a "bad move" for either of them to do this is because of ego. Otherwise, it's just a couple of people playing StarCraft 2. JUST DO IT.

On June 11 2017 19:48 fluidrone wrote:
+ Show Spoiler + It can happen!
YOU make it happen!
Just make a matcherino pot (you all send the money.. 5 bucks or whatever)
they wait until the pot is around 1k and then agree on how to split the money...

Also please show courtesy towards people trying to save the gamer side of sc2 (grudge matches or other)
i would type the morrow twit ch emote (RIGHT HERE right now) that shows this (u sub to morrow on twit ch, type morUp and you will see the emote! .. + Show Spoiler +. <3

Same for struggling streamers on sc2.. give them an honorable way out
(disclaimer: matcherino (and i get no `$ for typing this) would help provide this service)

if both players get money..

just ask for a best of 7 and both get fiftyfifty on the money donated (they play standard or with the limitations whatever)

and then you ll get your grudge match
(got to do your part is what i mean)

+ Show Spoiler [toomuchinformation] +

On June 11 2017 21:22 fx9 wrote:
at this rate,
even his homies will find it hard to defend the spineless creature. lol

On June 11 2017 21:46 PinoKotsBeer wrote:

I fully agree. It doesnt matter if you like or dislike the guy , but this topic turned into a witchhunt and a lot of users use the opportunity to rant and be insulting towards an user. "yes but avilo is toxic etc blablabla" that might be, but its no excuse to act the same way.

On June 11 2017 21:31 TheKhyira wrote:
I´m a little disappointed the mods are allowing this thread to continue when it involves slander and borderline harassment of a singled out persona.

On June 11 2017 21:49 Ryzel wrote:


Indeed, one could say this thread is bringing out the avilo in all of us.

... I'll see myself out