• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:44
CEST 17:44
KST 00:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy2GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding2Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy
Tourneys
GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea ASL21 General Discussion Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST [BSL22] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CEST 🌍 Weekly Foreign Showmatches
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2942 users

Korea Weekly - June 4th - Code S: All Mirror - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
41 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 16:15:51
June 06 2017 16:15 GMT
#41
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


Well sometimes the best ideas come in the shower, by which I mean that now when the players have time to go to pubs and meme around on stream, they are more likely to have innovative ideas than when they were forced to play a certain style 10 hours a day. Nothing beats having a strategist team and a sports psychologist to help you prepare though.
maru G5L pls
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 17:00:37
June 06 2017 16:45 GMT
#42
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


I dont know, they did 2-1-1 from avril to september

+ 12 drones = less openers, cool builds come from TY in general ( for terrans )

Even if SKT tried some mech builds

+ The loss of tankivac has cut a lot
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .330
LamboSC2 270
ProTech118
Codebar 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5340
Jaedong 4817
Sea 2766
Bisu 2650
EffOrt 658
Mini 576
Light 561
firebathero 445
Stork 375
ZerO 368
[ Show more ]
Snow 351
actioN 275
Soulkey 262
ggaemo 216
Rush 199
Pusan 196
Hyuk 168
Sharp 117
hero 116
Dewaltoss 78
Sea.KH 60
Aegong 57
Shinee 54
sorry 51
Barracks 49
Backho 48
Leta 47
Shuttle 45
Hyun 43
HiyA 41
Nal_rA 39
scan(afreeca) 36
JulyZerg 33
GoRush 23
Rock 22
IntoTheRainbow 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Dota 2
Gorgc7795
qojqva1690
syndereN290
Counter-Strike
fl0m3751
x6flipin353
byalli333
edward92
kRYSTAL_11
Other Games
gofns17789
Liquid`RaSZi1213
B2W.Neo823
FrodaN389
Livibee160
QueenE128
ArmadaUGS108
KnowMe101
XaKoH 85
Mew2King47
Trikslyr27
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL28240
Other Games
BasetradeTV1951
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 21
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki7
• HerbMon 7
• Michael_bg 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV489
League of Legends
• Nemesis4580
• TFBlade1129
Other Games
• Shiphtur45
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
8h 16m
WardiTV Team League
19h 16m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 18h
WardiTV Team League
1d 19h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 23h
BSL
2 days
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
OSC
2 days
BSL
3 days
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.