• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:59
CEST 05:59
KST 12:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-66SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-63PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)11Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15
StarCraft 2
General
August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week Life's Huge Gambling Spree After IEM Katowice 2014
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles #19 2-Days Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Artosis Joins SC4ALL II As Our First BW Invite! BW General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2813 users

Korea Weekly - June 4th - Code S: All Mirror - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
41 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 16:15:51
June 06 2017 16:15 GMT
#41
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


Well sometimes the best ideas come in the shower, by which I mean that now when the players have time to go to pubs and meme around on stream, they are more likely to have innovative ideas than when they were forced to play a certain style 10 hours a day. Nothing beats having a strategist team and a sports psychologist to help you prepare though.
maru G5L pls
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 17:00:37
June 06 2017 16:45 GMT
#42
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


I dont know, they did 2-1-1 from avril to september

+ 12 drones = less openers, cool builds come from TY in general ( for terrans )

Even if SKT tried some mech builds

+ The loss of tankivac has cut a lot
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 212
Nina 110
SpeCial 37
FoxeR 33
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4595
GuemChi 2548
Leta 362
Mind 216
JulyZerg 167
Noble 86
sSak 63
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm198
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
summit1g8195
Fnx 627
minikerr38
Other Games
JimRising 699
C9.Mang0435
PiGStarcraft333
WinterStarcraft278
JuggernautJason171
Maynarde121
Livibee60
Fuzer 27
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1144
BasetradeTV117
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH263
• practicex 11
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 54
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo994
• Rush698
• Stunt147
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6h 1m
INu's Battles
7h 1m
Percival vs Zoun
Cure vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
TBD vs NightMare
PiGosaur Cup
20h 1m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
The PondCast
2 days
INu's Battles
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
3 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-03
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.