• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:11
CEST 02:11
KST 09:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play2Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon65.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes14Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch2[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)98
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Grayware Tech Services: Professional Help for Cryp ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool ProGamer Paychecks Story BW General Discussion Best thing happen to StarCraft since Remastered? Data needed
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
[94721]Better Good-Health Signs Than 3-15 Bans/Yea TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7544 users

Korea Weekly - June 4th - Code S: All Mirror - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
41 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 16:15:51
June 06 2017 16:15 GMT
#41
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


Well sometimes the best ideas come in the shower, by which I mean that now when the players have time to go to pubs and meme around on stream, they are more likely to have innovative ideas than when they were forced to play a certain style 10 hours a day. Nothing beats having a strategist team and a sports psychologist to help you prepare though.
maru G5L pls
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 17:00:37
June 06 2017 16:45 GMT
#42
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


I dont know, they did 2-1-1 from avril to september

+ 12 drones = less openers, cool builds come from TY in general ( for terrans )

Even if SKT tried some mech builds

+ The loss of tankivac has cut a lot
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#88
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft428
ViBE171
oGsTOP 42
Temp0 39
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 2795
Rain 2536
Artosis 585
sSak 61
Bale 6
Dota 2
capcasts116
League of Legends
JimRising 285
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe184
Other Games
summit1g10053
C9.Mang01538
shahzam862
ToD130
Maynarde70
UpATreeSC65
JuggernautJason22
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick848
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream269
Other Games
BasetradeTV233
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 98
• musti20045 29
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2479
Other Games
• imaqtpie789
• Scarra711
Upcoming Events
Kung Fu Cup
10h 49m
Replay Cast
23h 49m
CrankTV Team League
1d 10h
Bombastic Starleague
1d 19h
The PondCast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
HomeStory Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
HomeStory Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S3
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Heroes Pulsing #3
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.