• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:22
CET 01:22
KST 09:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier6Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League92
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 Power Rank: epic29 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder SCHNAIL now supports Remastered Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs BA 2026-10-30 Star Con San Diego 2026 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread R I P Patrick Stewart Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10276 users

Korea Weekly - June 4th - Code S: All Mirror - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
41 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 16:15:51
June 06 2017 16:15 GMT
#41
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


Well sometimes the best ideas come in the shower, by which I mean that now when the players have time to go to pubs and meme around on stream, they are more likely to have innovative ideas than when they were forced to play a certain style 10 hours a day. Nothing beats having a strategist team and a sports psychologist to help you prepare though.
maru G5L pls
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 17:00:37
June 06 2017 16:45 GMT
#42
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


I dont know, they did 2-1-1 from avril to september

+ 12 drones = less openers, cool builds come from TY in general ( for terrans )

Even if SKT tried some mech builds

+ The loss of tankivac has cut a lot
TL+ Member
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
GSL CK 6
CranKy Ducklings33
Liquipedia
OSC
07:00
Masters Cup #151: Group D
davetesta29
Liquipedia
The PiG Daily
05:30
Best Games of SC
herO vs Rogue
GuMiho vs ShoWTimE
Clem vs herO
PiGStarcraft382
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft382
SpeCial 45
EmSc Tv 16
RuFF_SC2 11
StarCraft: Brood War
ProTech170
910 62
LancerX 12
Dota 2
syndereN813
monkeys_forever243
PGG 218
League of Legends
JimRising 692
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox307
Other Games
summit1g9069
FrodaN1493
XaKoH 251
Maynarde116
JuggernautJason37
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV528
Other Games
gamesdonequick445
BasetradeTV33
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 16
EmSc2Tv 16
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 139
• EnkiAlexander 32
• musti20045 30
• RyuSc2 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki11
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos4142
• Nemesis3640
• Scarra1278
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
9h 38m
WardiTV Invitational
11h 38m
Epic.LAN
12h 38m
IPSL
15h 38m
eOnzErG vs McRibbed
LancerX vs StRyKeR
AI Arena Tournament
16h 38m
OSC
1d 13h
Yamato Cup
1d 14h
IPSL
1d 16h
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
1d 22h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Ultimate Battle
2 days
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
2 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-30
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.