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Korea Weekly - June 4th - Code S: All Mirror

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Korea Weekly - June 4th - Code S: All Mirror

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics byshiroiusagi
June 4th, 2017 18:07 GMT
  • Korea Weekly
  • Weekly Focus


Full Steam Ahead

by hexhaven
[image loading] - thehexhaven


We’re looking at another action-packed week in Korea. One star league will wrap up, one is steadily nearing completion, and the youngest sibling of the trio will keep chugging along with the group stage. What’s more, summer is finally in full swing, so fire up the grill and enjoy some exciting matches with good food and ice cold drinks.

Ups and Downs, Ups and Downs

A few weeks ago we went over a trifecta of players who were all playing in both SSL and GSL. Turns out the fates weren’t kind to them, and none of them straddle two different leagues anymore. INnoVation secured his spot in the SSL finals by winning the pennant race, but he was unable to advance from the GSL ro16. In the finals he’ll be going up against Solar in his most favored match-up. Of course, the Splyce Zerg player is the defending champion, so it seems more than fair to see the two players duke it out this Saturday.

Meanwhile, Stats’s gamble seemd to just barely pay off. He’s going to play against Classic in the GSL playoffs, but he fell against Solar in the SSL post season. Thankfully his team mate TY is also in the GSL playoffs, having made good use of Stats’s last minute group change. The odd man out is ByuL, who was taken down by Solar in the SSL, and by GuMiho and Stats in the GSL. For now, his promising 2017 will have to take a breather until the next star leagues start up again.

Mirror Mirror On the Wall

The GSL playoffs will see a return to the days of GomTvT with two back-to-back Terran mirror matches. This will mean also that the other semifinal is a TvT, and that the other finalist will be a Terran. Fans of the race rejoice, others might opt to skip the first day of the playoffs entirely.

GuMiho will first face off against TY, and ByuN will be pitted against Maru. Even if you’re normally iffy watching the siege tank lines, the high caliber of the players should ensure enjoyable matches for the viewers. Curiously aLive is a name that’s missing, having built a bit of a reputation as a TvT sniper. Thankfully GuMiho will likely pick up the slack, and TY will need to replicate his IEM Katowice performance to stay in the tournament. If the Splyce Terran wants to meet his team mate in the finals, he better come prepared, because even if he manages to secure a win against GuMiho, he’ll be up against the winner of ByuN vs Maru. The two Terran powerhouses are brazenly eyeing the finals. ByuN will want to correct his lackluster start to the year, and let’s be honest, Maru wants to achieve the exact same thing.

On the other side of the bracket, Stats and Classic will face off against each other in a PvP. Stats still has the memory of the first season’s championship fresh on his mind, while Classic still seems to be almost criminally underrated. It’s been almost exactly two years since his last star league title. Granted, his year hasn’t been exactly stellar, but there’s still a very good chance we’ll see Classic instead of Stats in the semifinals. The two met in the Ro32, and Classic took the match with a comfortable 2-0 score. Stats has also been struggling in PvP this year. Then again, it’s PvP, so upsets are to be expected.

The winner of the mirror will go up against a Zerg player once the dust settles in the knife fight of soO vs Rogue. The Jin Air Zerg has traditionally lost his momentum upon reaching the quarterfinals. What’s worse, he’s going up against none other than soO. The Silver Medalist is looking at another possible finals, and at another possible chance at a title. Maybe now it’s finally his time. Maybe with a victory he’ll finally feel vindicated. Rogue will be in for the fight of his life.

The Newcomer

Changing gears, VSL also has a single group scheduled for this week. Lacking the history of the other two star leagues, VSL also has a bunch of names we don’t see quite as often. Group B has Hush, Hurricane, Pet and soO, and of course The Runner-Up stands out from among the rest. However, the group will be played the day after soO’s big GSL quarterfinal, so maybe the other three players might have a chance. What’s more likely is that soO will simply gobble up the others for breakfast, and the three will be left fighting over the second place. Nevertheless, it’ll be exciting to see how the new league develops further.

Weekly Schedule:

Wed - GSL Code S - (T)GuMiho vs (T)TY, (T)ByuN vs (T)Maru
Thu- GSL Code S - (P)Stats vs (P)Classic, (Z)Rogue vs (Z)soO
Fri - VSL - Group B: (P)Hush / (P)Hurricane / (Z)Pet / (Z)soO
Sat - SSL Premier Grand Finals - (T)INnoVation vs (Z)Solar





One Look Says it All

by mizenhauer
[image loading] - Mizenhauer

One has never lost a GSL quarterfinal; the other has never won one despite repeated opportunities. One has been to eight premier event finals; the other has never advanced past the semifinals. If we went on accolades alone, it’s obvious who should advance when soO and Rogue enter the FreecUP studio next week. But to cite an old maxim, games games aren’t played on paper. As two of the most successful Zergs in the past three years prepare to face off, let's remember what should be a contested rivalry has actually been a tale of utter dominance.

To say that soO and Rogue have history is an understatement. They have played eleven times since their Starcraft 2 debuts. Considering they possess some of the best ZvZ in Korea one would expect the score to be close, but for whatever reason that hasn’t been the case. Rogue has won eight games, with soO only winning three and neither of their shared Bo3s. This is not the whole story, though, for their battles transcend simple wins and losses. One need only look to the closing moments of their match in Round 2 of Proleague 2016 to understand why.



The stare. From Rogue: gall, arrogance and disrespect. For soO, a tumult of anger, disappointment and humiliation. Rogue is known for his flair and confidence within the game and outside of it. This moment was utterly devoid of good-natured bravado. It was a boot pressed on the throat of a dying man, the slow bleed following a stab wound to the viscera. Rogue was planting a flag. From now until the end of Starcraft, soO was his. All the GSL final appearances in the world won't mean a thing when they play.

The quarterfinal between soO and Rogue happens to be the first ZvZ in the GSL knockout phase since Season 2 of 2015 (when Rogue lost 3-0 to Curious). During that time only five different Zergs have reached the elimination rounds, compared to eleven Terrans and eight Protoss. The results are equally slanted when it comes to the semifinals and finals. In fact, no Zerg has lifted the trophy since Season 1 of 2015. GSL has been a boneyard for Korean Zergs. Players like Dark and Solar who have posted excellent results elsewhere have failed to take the next step, while those who have made strides have ultimately fallen short

Despite differences in playstyle, character and accomplishments, Rogue and soO share a strong attitude of resilience. They have both stumbled on the same stage time and again—soO in the GSL finals, Rogue in Starleague quarterfinals—only to bounce back and return to those heights. 2016 was a challenging year for them but here they are in familiar territory. For soO, his sixth finals appearance is beginning to look like fate. He didn’t participate in SSL or VSL Season 1, but hasn’t lost a step following his run to the Season 1 finals earlier in the year. For Rogue, this is a declaration that he is once more among the elite. While he may be trending upwards, he still has a long way to go. The Korean scene right now is ultra-competitive, with no one able to separate themselves from the pack for long. Rogue has struggled to break into the upper echelon and will continue to.

History looms like a megalithic shadow, but it is not the sole determinant. The fourth match of the round of 8 is a ground upon which history could be made. It could be soO’s first loss prior to the finals in the GSL knockout stage. It could be Rogue's long awaited trip to a Starleague semifinal. Or it could be another defeat for Rogue. Only one Zerg will remain when all is said and done. Who will carry that mantle in search of Starcraft 2’s ultimate prize?


Korea Weekly: hexhaven
Focus: mizenhauer
Editors: CosmicSpiral, Olli
Graphics: shiroiusagi
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TL+ Member
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
June 04 2017 19:41 GMT
#2
Loving those articles, keep it up, also when I saw mizenhauer name at the top of the page I fear it was gonna be another weird Kpop article
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Bombit
Profile Joined February 2016
Belarus20 Posts
June 04 2017 20:17 GMT
#3
INnoVation take all of my energy for the SSL Finals! GG GL HF!
[image loading]
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
June 04 2017 20:40 GMT
#4
Will there be a piece only for the SSL finals? I mean seems weird to not focus on that tbh
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1877 Posts
June 04 2017 21:00 GMT
#5
On June 05 2017 04:41 Nakajin wrote:
Loving those articles, keep it up, also when I saw mizenhauer name at the top of the page I fear it was gonna be another weird Kpop article


We really out here.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
June 04 2017 21:06 GMT
#6
Surprised SSL finals didn't get more attention, seeing as it is, yknow, a Starleague finals and all.

Also, very impressive artwork of INnoVation.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
hexhaven
Profile Joined July 2014
Finland931 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-04 22:06:13
June 04 2017 21:54 GMT
#7
On June 05 2017 05:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Will there be a piece only for the SSL finals? I mean seems weird to not focus on that tbh


No spoilers, I promise, but yes.
WriterI shoot events. | http://www.jussi.co/esports
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 04 2017 22:44 GMT
#8
will the winner of byun vs maru be considered no longer slumping or just in less of a slump than the other?
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 04 2017 23:35 GMT
#9
Rogue stare at the camera is one of the reasons why I miss SPL, but enough with nostalgia; Sick week, sick matches and sick Maru vs Rogue finals (ok, that not just yet but wait and see )
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Meepman
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada610 Posts
June 05 2017 01:20 GMT
#10
On June 05 2017 07:44 Fango wrote:
will the winner of byun vs maru be considered no longer slumping or just in less of a slump than the other?


if maru builds more than 1 reaper per game he's still slumping in my heart
Kaizor
Profile Joined May 2015
Singapore909 Posts
June 05 2017 08:08 GMT
#11
On June 05 2017 10:20 Meepman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2017 07:44 Fango wrote:
will the winner of byun vs maru be considered no longer slumping or just in less of a slump than the other?


if maru builds more than 1 reaper per game he's still slumping in my heart


Being able to get to the semi finals of any premier tournament is always a decent accomplishment, especially considering how competitive korea is this year, so i would call it no longer slumping.

Hit me up if you need chinese translations. soO fighting !!
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
June 05 2017 08:12 GMT
#12
On June 05 2017 10:20 Meepman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2017 07:44 Fango wrote:
will the winner of byun vs maru be considered no longer slumping or just in less of a slump than the other?


if maru builds more than 1 reaper per game he's still slumping in my heart

The most standard TvT build opens 2 reapers though.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
June 05 2017 09:53 GMT
#13
On June 05 2017 17:08 Kaizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2017 10:20 Meepman wrote:
On June 05 2017 07:44 Fango wrote:
will the winner of byun vs maru be considered no longer slumping or just in less of a slump than the other?


if maru builds more than 1 reaper per game he's still slumping in my heart


Being able to get to the semi finals of any premier tournament is always a decent accomplishment, especially considering how competitive korea is this year, so i would call it no longer slumping.



I heard that soO played roughly 50 games all season and still made the Ro8. I don't see how Korea is particularly competitive at the moment.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
June 05 2017 12:31 GMT
#14
On June 05 2017 18:53 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2017 17:08 Kaizor wrote:
On June 05 2017 10:20 Meepman wrote:
On June 05 2017 07:44 Fango wrote:
will the winner of byun vs maru be considered no longer slumping or just in less of a slump than the other?


if maru builds more than 1 reaper per game he's still slumping in my heart


Being able to get to the semi finals of any premier tournament is always a decent accomplishment, especially considering how competitive korea is this year, so i would call it no longer slumping.



I heard that soO played roughly 50 games all season and still made the Ro8. I don't see how Korea is particularly competitive at the moment.

When we hear something like that about Taeja it meant he was a god Hmm

But yeah no strict practice regimen anymore surely has its impact
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
June 05 2017 15:50 GMT
#15
On June 05 2017 18:53 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2017 17:08 Kaizor wrote:
On June 05 2017 10:20 Meepman wrote:
On June 05 2017 07:44 Fango wrote:
will the winner of byun vs maru be considered no longer slumping or just in less of a slump than the other?


if maru builds more than 1 reaper per game he's still slumping in my heart


Being able to get to the semi finals of any premier tournament is always a decent accomplishment, especially considering how competitive korea is this year, so i would call it no longer slumping.



I heard that soO played roughly 50 games all season and still made the Ro8. I don't see how Korea is particularly competitive at the moment.


http://sc2unmasked.com/Search?q=soO&server=kr + practice i guess

You heard wrong
TL+ Member
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1877 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 15:57:21
June 05 2017 15:56 GMT
#16
On June 06 2017 00:50 DieuCure wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2017 18:53 Olli wrote:
On June 05 2017 17:08 Kaizor wrote:
On June 05 2017 10:20 Meepman wrote:
On June 05 2017 07:44 Fango wrote:
will the winner of byun vs maru be considered no longer slumping or just in less of a slump than the other?


if maru builds more than 1 reaper per game he's still slumping in my heart


Being able to get to the semi finals of any premier tournament is always a decent accomplishment, especially considering how competitive korea is this year, so i would call it no longer slumping.



I heard that soO played roughly 50 games all season and still made the Ro8. I don't see how Korea is particularly competitive at the moment.


http://sc2unmasked.com/Search?q=soO&server=kr + practice i guess

You heard wrong


I wonder if you know when those games were played. I assure you almost all of them were from this past week. Olli was completely correct that soO had played less than 50 games prior to the r32 and in the weeks immediately following.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
June 05 2017 16:03 GMT
#17
You really think he only plays ladder ? ...

Just look at TY, when he plays ladder it's for his stream.
TL+ Member
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1877 Posts
June 05 2017 16:06 GMT
#18
On June 06 2017 01:03 DieuCure wrote:
You really think he only plays ladder ? ...

Just look at TY, when he plays ladder it's for his stream.


Think whatever you like.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 16:09:44
June 05 2017 16:09 GMT
#19
Maybe you are right because SC2 is like the bike, they dont get lost - mlord lvl was decent -

But i'm pretty sure he played with practice partner
TL+ Member
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 16:35:16
June 05 2017 16:09 GMT
#20
On June 06 2017 01:06 mizenhauer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2017 01:03 DieuCure wrote:
You really think he only plays ladder ? ...

Just look at TY, when he plays ladder it's for his stream.


Think whatever you like.

That's not a strong argument
Like i totally see that the general competitive lvl isn't as high. Makes sense, players can train whenever they like, most of it probably just before some improtant match (during proleague days that was 24/7 basically)
At the same time, if you heard a story about taeja doing that it would mean he is a prodigy and nothign else, biased somewhat?
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
June 05 2017 16:17 GMT
#21
On June 06 2017 01:09 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2017 01:06 mizenhauer wrote:
On June 06 2017 01:03 DieuCure wrote:
You really think he only plays ladder ? ...

Just look at TY, when he plays ladder it's for his stream.


Think whatever you like.

That's not a strong argument
Like i totally see that the general competitive lvl isn't as high. Makes sense, players can train whenever they like, most of it probably just before some improtant match (during proleague days that was 24/7 basically)
At the same time, if you heard a story about taeja doing that it would mean he is a prodegy and nothign else, biased somewhat?


Even with proleague, look at Zest Innovation etc

Sure general lvl was higher, but i dont think ro16/8 lvl is lower. Player like Creator still struggles ( sadly ) even if he practices a lot on stream.
TL+ Member
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 16:58:53
June 05 2017 16:58 GMT
#22
On June 06 2017 01:09 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2017 01:06 mizenhauer wrote:
On June 06 2017 01:03 DieuCure wrote:
You really think he only plays ladder ? ...

Just look at TY, when he plays ladder it's for his stream.


Think whatever you like.

That's not a strong argument
Like i totally see that the general competitive lvl isn't as high. Makes sense, players can train whenever they like, most of it probably just before some improtant match (during proleague days that was 24/7 basically)
At the same time, if you heard a story about taeja doing that it would mean he is a prodigy and nothign else, biased somewhat?


Taeja did it at a time when everyone else was practicing 10-14 hours a day in KeSPA training facilities and he himself essentially didn't practice for months while beating up the best in the world anyway. You'd have to be biased yourself to not see the difference.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
June 05 2017 17:12 GMT
#23
I mean i could start the whole weekend tournament vs starleague stuff again, but that wouldn't do anything anyway.
This isn't even about Taeja, i just think it's funny that in one instant the assumed (more or less) lack of constant training (of one player in particular) is used to elevate that player, in the other case it is used to devalue the scene.

With that being said, i also think that the competitive lvl of the scene has gone down in comparison to a few years ago, funnily enough Taeja never played in that highly competitive environment to begin with which makes comparisons really hard and for the most part annoying to deal with.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
June 05 2017 17:25 GMT
#24
lvl of the scene has gone down in comparison to a few years ago


On which base ?

WoL lvl i dont have to argue

HoTS : Micro lvl and multitask lvl was lower than now

And i think macro too, they have higher income and minerals bank dont go higher :


I think 2016 was the maximum.
TL+ Member
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 17:35:37
June 05 2017 17:33 GMT
#25
On June 06 2017 02:25 DieuCure wrote:
HoTS : Micro lvl and multitask lvl was lower than now


It was not. And there is no statistic or science that supports it. If anything, the facts points to the opposite.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
June 05 2017 17:58 GMT
#26
Just watch the game. But looks like you really are dogmatic about that
TL+ Member
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1877 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 18:24:54
June 05 2017 18:21 GMT
#27
On June 06 2017 02:25 DieuCure wrote:
Show nested quote +
lvl of the scene has gone down in comparison to a few years ago


On which base ?

WoL lvl i dont have to argue

HoTS : Micro lvl and multitask lvl was lower than now

And i think macro too, they have higher income and minerals bank dont go higher : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P09awza-nk

I think 2016 was the maximum.



Using one game to determine which year(s) of Starcraft were played at a higher level is pretty suspect and should be avoided.

PS: I think the highest level has to be 2014-15 with 2016 being the lowest since 2011 and 2017 being somewhere in the ballpark of 2012 and 2013. But again there's not science there just the opinion of someone who has watched a lot of games.
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
June 05 2017 18:23 GMT
#28
On June 06 2017 02:33 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2017 02:25 DieuCure wrote:
HoTS : Micro lvl and multitask lvl was lower than now


It was not. And there is no statistic or science that supports it. If anything, the facts points to the opposite.

There really is no real analysis done one way or another. The only thing which is clear (and what i mean with "competitive lvl") is that the scene itself is weaker due to no kespa teams, no proleague, less players, etc.
Does that mean that Innovation vs Solar now will be worse than Innovation vs some s class zerg back then? No not necessarily. I think the gameplay is about the same from a mechanical standpoint, builds obviously change.
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
June 05 2017 18:29 GMT
#29
On June 06 2017 02:58 DieuCure wrote:
Just watch the game. But looks like you really are dogmatic about that


watch the game. the skill level was higher in 2015:
look: + Show Spoiler +
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
June 05 2017 18:50 GMT
#30
Dream vs Life was the best zerg vs a top top terran at the time

aLive is bad at TvZ, he lost to noregret recently, and Byul isnt as good as people want to say.



Even if Rogue isnt the best zerg in the world, you can see the lvl of TY, it's the only terran who can win a late late TvZ without a big lead
TL+ Member
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 19:05:32
June 05 2017 19:01 GMT
#31
Nowadays it's easy as terran to play lategame with ghosts and liberators added.
Back in the day terrans had to just micro marines and marauders to victory but because the skill-level was so high they could still take games there. + Show Spoiler +


That even with libs and ghosts TY is the only one that can take games in lategame is definitive 100% proof that the skill-level has decreased since the glory days of pure skill.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-05 19:15:44
June 05 2017 19:09 GMT
#32
Rofl, it's just because late game zerg is way stronger, even in "kespa era" last year they had to allin on 2 bases with 3rd at 7/8 min, ultra had 2 more armor than now, and 3 more than hots ultra + nowadays ultra have 17+ dps than hots ultra, so Taeja would have lost the game at 20min12. And TY was able to deal with Dark's ultra late game in 2016. ( nobody else would have done it even Taeja at his max )

It's another proof that HoTS was easier to play as terran. Easier to do pure bio than bio+ ghost + raven + libe, that's why foreigners terran are struggling against zerg
TL+ Member
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
June 05 2017 19:22 GMT
#33
Bio lib ghost is easy to play. Siege liberators, click snipe a few times and watch the zerg army explode.
If some of the strong HotS terrans like Bomber or Flash would still play they'd never drop a game in lategame.
Another 100% proof that the skill-level was much much higher back then.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
June 05 2017 19:24 GMT
#34
Ye you dont even know of what you are talking about, i'm sure you thought ultra is the same as HoTS.

TL+ Member
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15967 Posts
June 05 2017 19:26 GMT
#35
You don't even realize I'm trolling the entire time
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
June 05 2017 19:30 GMT
#36
I admit I'm not very lucid.

But for my defense we can expect everything from slanderer
TL+ Member
Meepman
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada610 Posts
June 05 2017 19:59 GMT
#37
On June 05 2017 17:12 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2017 10:20 Meepman wrote:
On June 05 2017 07:44 Fango wrote:
will the winner of byun vs maru be considered no longer slumping or just in less of a slump than the other?


if maru builds more than 1 reaper per game he's still slumping in my heart

The most standard TvT build opens 2 reapers though.


i fucked up
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
June 06 2017 02:21 GMT
#38
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
June 06 2017 15:52 GMT
#39
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".
maru G5L pls
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 16:01:23
June 06 2017 16:00 GMT
#40
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
neptunusfisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
2286 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 16:15:51
June 06 2017 16:15 GMT
#41
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


Well sometimes the best ideas come in the shower, by which I mean that now when the players have time to go to pubs and meme around on stream, they are more likely to have innovative ideas than when they were forced to play a certain style 10 hours a day. Nothing beats having a strategist team and a sports psychologist to help you prepare though.
maru G5L pls
DieuCure
Profile Joined January 2017
France3713 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-06 17:00:37
June 06 2017 16:45 GMT
#42
On June 07 2017 01:00 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2017 00:52 neptunusfisk wrote:
On June 06 2017 11:21 pvsnp wrote:
I have absolutely no idea why people keep insisting that the current professional skill level has dropped enormously and that previous skill level was far higher, or the exact opposite. There's a complete absence of any quantitative, objective scale or score to justify this.

Anyone can claim anything based on "i think so therefore it must be right." Both sides don't have any evidence to stand on.


Isn't it fair to think that when the money/sponsors recede a bit, then the overall determination of all players drop a little bit, making the ladder a bit less crowded? Players will of course try their best anyway, but if less people try their best, and if their practice partners play worse players, and so on, then the level might drop a bit mechanically.

On the other hand, strategically (which is the important part for SC2 anyway), the cleverest players will probably benefit from not having too many ruthless coaches or whatnot, to give them more "artistic freedom".


Innovation of the metagame and new builds came from within team houses and preparation, though. There's a ton of examples for it (Startale's charge/templar PvT probably the most famous one). A lot of the time it wasn't headline players who figured out the game, but B-teamers and practice partners. Those are all gone now.

It's very telling that nowadays it's not Koreans who figure out the game, it's foreigners. Artistic freedom can only be more limited now because you HAVE to perform if you have no salary. There's no room to experiment around.


I dont know, they did 2-1-1 from avril to september

+ 12 drones = less openers, cool builds come from TY in general ( for terrans )

Even if SKT tried some mech builds

+ The loss of tankivac has cut a lot
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