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3.14 + Balance Patch inbound! - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
May 17 2017 10:03 GMT
#21
On May 17 2017 18:59 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:
No reason to make broodlords in any matchup now, I don't like this patch


There was a reason to make broodlords before?

The problem with broods is they're massively overpowered if they show up and your opponent is unprepared. However they're completely fucking worthless if they are.

So how do you balance something like that?
Cereal
Aegwynn
Profile Joined September 2015
Italy460 Posts
May 17 2017 10:18 GMT
#22
On May 17 2017 19:03 InfCereal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2017 18:59 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:
No reason to make broodlords in any matchup now, I don't like this patch


There was a reason to make broodlords before?

The problem with broods is they're massively overpowered if they show up and your opponent is unprepared. However they're completely fucking worthless if they are.

So how do you balance something like that?

They were pretty useful and not overpowered at all before the range nerf.
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
May 17 2017 10:46 GMT
#23
6 supply useless unit dealing 10 more damage per shot (with terrible attack ratio) definetely gonna make BL "useless".
It took 6 shots to kill a BL, now, guess what, it takes 5!!! oh my god.
Less is more.
Aegwynn
Profile Joined September 2015
Italy460 Posts
May 17 2017 11:43 GMT
#24
On May 17 2017 19:46 insitelol wrote:
6 supply useless unit dealing 10 more damage per shot (with terrible attack ratio) definetely gonna make BL "useless".
It took 6 shots to kill a BL, now, guess what, it takes 5!!! oh my god.

They were already useless after the range nerf, now they're utter garbage.
Not to mention that 6 supply unit cost less than broodlord, is faster, has more range and can attack both air&ground but its the one which needs a buff somehow?!
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
May 17 2017 12:03 GMT
#25
Tempest is arguably the most underused unit these days. It's blizzard justification for a buff (plus, they want to promote anti-air in pvp). I, personally, never liked this unit, barely used it in hots, didn't build a single one since the launch of Lotv and don't plan doing this even after the patch. And i honestly doubt tempests will ever be a problem for zergs.
Less is more.
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-17 12:37:09
May 17 2017 12:16 GMT
#26
im so sick of them changing everything BUT what needs to be changed to make the thor good

its not fast enough
it has never been fast enough
on launch, everyone complained that this unit was clunky and goofy , and its been 7 years

i mean maybe ive just been too hopeful, but i dont see how any developer could be attached to that unit. who is the one at blizz taking the thor design so personally taht they dont try the most basic solution to the unit. SIZE/SPEED
StarscreamG1
Profile Joined February 2011
Portugal1653 Posts
May 17 2017 12:39 GMT
#27
All this bullshit about thor armor, shot modes, etc... The unit needs to be a kind of goliath, that's it.
Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
May 17 2017 12:59 GMT
#28
3.14 + Balance Patch inbound!


That is one irrational patch.
Jj_82
Profile Joined December 2012
Swaziland419 Posts
May 17 2017 13:58 GMT
#29
On May 17 2017 21:39 StarscreamG1 wrote:
All this bullshit about thor armor, shot modes, etc... The unit needs to be a kind of goliath, that's it.
That would be the Cyclone.
Once rode a waterslide with PartinG and TaeJa ✌
Jj_82
Profile Joined December 2012
Swaziland419 Posts
May 17 2017 14:01 GMT
#30
Sooo, Battlecruisers and Thors are dead in TvP late game, aren't they?
Once rode a waterslide with PartinG and TaeJa ✌
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
May 17 2017 14:26 GMT
#31
On May 17 2017 22:58 Jj_82 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2017 21:39 StarscreamG1 wrote:
All this bullshit about thor armor, shot modes, etc... The unit needs to be a kind of goliath, that's it.
That would be the Cyclone.


lol
nah
its just a cyclone

i watched some broodwar the other day and i was cumming buckets watching tank pushes get stopped by a premature carrier transition, rally goliaths and make the push work with their reliable anti air
Jj_82
Profile Joined December 2012
Swaziland419 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-17 15:01:06
May 17 2017 15:00 GMT
#32
On May 17 2017 23:26 c0sm0naut wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2017 22:58 Jj_82 wrote:
On May 17 2017 21:39 StarscreamG1 wrote:
All this bullshit about thor armor, shot modes, etc... The unit needs to be a kind of goliath, that's it.
That would be the Cyclone.


lol
nah
its just a cyclone

i watched some broodwar the other day and i was cumming buckets watching tank pushes get stopped by a premature carrier transition, rally goliaths and make the push work with their reliable anti air
would be kind of
Once rode a waterslide with PartinG and TaeJa ✌
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16700 Posts
May 17 2017 15:38 GMT
#33
On May 17 2017 17:02 LoneYoShi wrote:
Am I the only one worried about a possible resurgence of proxy-thor builds in TvT ?

if, at the GSL level, it appears 1 in every 30 games or less i'm cool with it.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
MarianoSC2
Profile Joined June 2015
Slovakia1855 Posts
May 17 2017 16:01 GMT
#34
I dont get these changes at all... Void ray and tempest change just doesnt make any sense what so ever. Voids are already garbage why even thinking about nerfing them? lol
And the tempests? This change would make some sense if the bonus was applied to carriers only otherwise its just dumb and screws up other matchups as well.

Charge cost is lower... well okay, but toss will still use adepts anyway. charge cost is not the issue and never was. why build a unit that is made almost completely obsolete by another unit which is much more versatile?

Thors main issue was/is that it sucks against air (mostly broods), and these changes dont help that much in that regard either.

And this took what a month? To get 2 good changes which have almost 0 impact on overall balance (the burrow visual and the auto turret) I mean, come on.... :/
Top 11: Rogue, Maru, Inno, Zest, Life, sOs, Stats, Dark, soO, Mvp, Classic/Trap/MC/Rain
jpg06051992
Profile Joined July 2015
United States580 Posts
May 17 2017 16:09 GMT
#35
On May 18 2017 01:01 MarianoSC2 wrote:
I dont get these changes at all... Void ray and tempest change just doesnt make any sense what so ever. Voids are already garbage why even thinking about nerfing them? lol
And the tempests? This change would make some sense if the bonus was applied to carriers only otherwise its just dumb and screws up other matchups as well.

Charge cost is lower... well okay, but toss will still use adepts anyway. charge cost is not the issue and never was. why build a unit that is made almost completely obsolete by another unit which is much more versatile?

Thors main issue was/is that it sucks against air (mostly broods), and these changes dont help that much in that regard either.

And this took what a month? To get 2 good changes which have almost 0 impact on overall balance (the burrow visual and the auto turret) I mean, come on.... :/


Void Rays don't suck, they are strong where they need to be used, but their design is crap, it's a zero skill A move unit just like the Broodlords, it either teeters between overpowered and underpowered based on ground up design. Personally I'm glad Tempests were buffed vs. Brood Lords and that Void Rays are getting nerfed, air units are just too powerful in SC2, next up I'm hoping they do an Oracle redesign. Air vs Air battles suck and units that incinerate workers in the blink of an eye suck, Phoenix was way less gimmicky then opening Oracle and way more fun/skill based to watch.

Charge change is great but I completely agree with your second line, why the hell would you ever build a Zealot when you can build a unit that is just as beefy, but it's ranged, durable, and is one of the best harassment units in the game. Charge wasnt the problem, Adepts overshadowing Zealots and Stalkers is the problem, and it's a problem that will persist until the Adept is changed to actually have some type of drawback or role other then, "General better then the others Gateway unit"

Can't wait until the off season when this team can actually roll out more in depth changes, they can't really do it right now because of the tournaments going on so they have to keep the changes very small and careful.
"SO MANY BANELINGS!"
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
May 17 2017 19:09 GMT
#36
3.14 also brings 3 new skins!

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20766467/patch-314-preview-new-premier-skin-bundle-5-17-2017

Guess I have to play more Broodlords now.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
May 17 2017 19:16 GMT
#37
On May 18 2017 04:09 Musicus wrote:
3.14 also brings 3 new skins!

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20766467/patch-314-preview-new-premier-skin-bundle-5-17-2017

Guess I have to play more Broodlords now.

That viking skin tho, wow
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Tyrhanius
Profile Joined April 2011
France947 Posts
May 17 2017 19:27 GMT
#38
On May 18 2017 01:09 jpg06051992 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 01:01 MarianoSC2 wrote:
I dont get these changes at all... Void ray and tempest change just doesnt make any sense what so ever. Voids are already garbage why even thinking about nerfing them? lol
And the tempests? This change would make some sense if the bonus was applied to carriers only otherwise its just dumb and screws up other matchups as well.

Charge cost is lower... well okay, but toss will still use adepts anyway. charge cost is not the issue and never was. why build a unit that is made almost completely obsolete by another unit which is much more versatile?

Thors main issue was/is that it sucks against air (mostly broods), and these changes dont help that much in that regard either.

And this took what a month? To get 2 good changes which have almost 0 impact on overall balance (the burrow visual and the auto turret) I mean, come on.... :/


Void Rays don't suck, they are strong where they need to be used, but their design is crap, it's a zero skill A move unit just like the Broodlords, it either teeters between overpowered and underpowered based on ground up design. Personally I'm glad Tempests were buffed vs. Brood Lords and that Void Rays are getting nerfed, air units are just too powerful in SC2, next up I'm hoping they do an Oracle redesign. Air vs Air battles suck and units that incinerate workers in the blink of an eye suck, Phoenix was way less gimmicky then opening Oracle and way more fun/skill based to watch.

Charge change is great but I completely agree with your second line, why the hell would you ever build a Zealot when you can build a unit that is just as beefy, but it's ranged, durable, and is one of the best harassment units in the game. Charge wasnt the problem, Adepts overshadowing Zealots and Stalkers is the problem, and it's a problem that will persist until the Adept is changed to actually have some type of drawback or role other then, "General better then the others Gateway unit"

Can't wait until the off season when this team can actually roll out more in depth changes, they can't really do it right now because of the tournaments going on so they have to keep the changes very small and careful.

The problem isn't tempest counter broodlords, as you can counter tempest with corruptor +/- abduct, the problem is HT counter everything.

Only broodlords can zone HT, but if you give P a big hard counter to broodlords, the just have to make HT + Tempest combination with some skytoss or immortal/archons balls and they crush everything.

Zerg need a counter to HT, because HT can annhilate everything with storm (pretty broken spell because it's instant and hit both air and ground), and counter all the zerg caster that could be used to counter the P deathball.

Something like :

the HT can't use his spells under blinding cloud would be nice, because HT have 9 range and viper cloud is 11 range, and HT move slowly.

Also it's not a hard counter (HT can still feedback vipers out the cloud), but allow at least some counter play, and nice move like fungal + cloud, hard to perform and great to watch on a pro tournament.
JokerAi
Profile Joined August 2012
Germany142 Posts
May 17 2017 19:57 GMT
#39
Hm uncontested adapt again neeb can play more z vs p with 100% winrate.
http://www.twitch.tv/jokersfun
jpg06051992
Profile Joined July 2015
United States580 Posts
May 17 2017 20:02 GMT
#40
On May 18 2017 04:27 Tyrhanius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 18 2017 01:09 jpg06051992 wrote:
On May 18 2017 01:01 MarianoSC2 wrote:
I dont get these changes at all... Void ray and tempest change just doesnt make any sense what so ever. Voids are already garbage why even thinking about nerfing them? lol
And the tempests? This change would make some sense if the bonus was applied to carriers only otherwise its just dumb and screws up other matchups as well.

Charge cost is lower... well okay, but toss will still use adepts anyway. charge cost is not the issue and never was. why build a unit that is made almost completely obsolete by another unit which is much more versatile?

Thors main issue was/is that it sucks against air (mostly broods), and these changes dont help that much in that regard either.

And this took what a month? To get 2 good changes which have almost 0 impact on overall balance (the burrow visual and the auto turret) I mean, come on.... :/


Void Rays don't suck, they are strong where they need to be used, but their design is crap, it's a zero skill A move unit just like the Broodlords, it either teeters between overpowered and underpowered based on ground up design. Personally I'm glad Tempests were buffed vs. Brood Lords and that Void Rays are getting nerfed, air units are just too powerful in SC2, next up I'm hoping they do an Oracle redesign. Air vs Air battles suck and units that incinerate workers in the blink of an eye suck, Phoenix was way less gimmicky then opening Oracle and way more fun/skill based to watch.

Charge change is great but I completely agree with your second line, why the hell would you ever build a Zealot when you can build a unit that is just as beefy, but it's ranged, durable, and is one of the best harassment units in the game. Charge wasnt the problem, Adepts overshadowing Zealots and Stalkers is the problem, and it's a problem that will persist until the Adept is changed to actually have some type of drawback or role other then, "General better then the others Gateway unit"

Can't wait until the off season when this team can actually roll out more in depth changes, they can't really do it right now because of the tournaments going on so they have to keep the changes very small and careful.

The problem isn't tempest counter broodlords, as you can counter tempest with corruptor +/- abduct, the problem is HT counter everything.

Only broodlords can zone HT, but if you give P a big hard counter to broodlords, the just have to make HT + Tempest combination with some skytoss or immortal/archons balls and they crush everything.

Zerg need a counter to HT, because HT can annhilate everything with storm (pretty broken spell because it's instant and hit both air and ground), and counter all the zerg caster that could be used to counter the P deathball.

Something like :

the HT can't use his spells under blinding cloud would be nice, because HT have 9 range and viper cloud is 11 range, and HT move slowly.

Also it's not a hard counter (HT can still feedback vipers out the cloud), but allow at least some counter play, and nice move like fungal + cloud, hard to perform and great to watch on a pro tournament.


I mostly agree with this, for the record I play Zerg so I'm not advocating too much Protoss buff or Zerg nerf or anything like that, I just think air units as a whole are too powerful.

I would have to say that if the Protoss is at a point where he can start cranking out 10 + Templars with his ultimate doom army then the Zerg is in trouble or needs to take very careful engagements. Zerg is supposed to win or take a big lead in the mid game to win, where as Protoss needs to do damage to the Zerg early game or macro/defend in the mid game to secure their well known late game advantage. I don't think Starcraft will ever get a point where every race is perfectly balanced at every stage of the game.

Same goes for Terran, they know they need to do damage early game mid game or open up very greedy and play a skin to the teeth defense if they are going to not challenge the Zerg economy, because Terran has a very powerful mid game but starts to fall off against Zerg late game.
"SO MANY BANELINGS!"
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