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On April 01 2017 04:35 Charoisaur wrote:
Back in HotS the community demanded a strong gateway unit for toss so they aren't forced to turtle to high-tech units every game.
Blizzard does what the community wants and adds a strong gateway unit and now the community complains again and doesn't want toss to have a strong gateway unit anymore.
Further proof that no matter what blizzard does, the community complains anyway. I wish Blizzard would just do their thing and not listen to the community as much.
Don't have to turtle to high-tech when the game ends 5 minutes in because you killed 40 drones
*insert meme here*
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On April 01 2017 05:00 MiCroLiFe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2017 04:42 Weltall wrote:
There is so much nonsense.
If there is 1 viable build, why nerf it to promote other builds?
If there is 1 playstylei it's just because other are not effective.
I would rather see some protoss buffs/changes overall, because they have really few options compared to other races. is this a troll? Protoss can use every unit in the roster and its stil viable.. terrans have ONE.
read the original post before u respond
ur response is off topic
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On April 01 2017 04:35 Charoisaur wrote:
Back in HotS the community demanded a strong gateway unit for toss so they aren't forced to turtle to high-tech units every game.
Blizzard does what the community wants and adds a strong gateway unit and now the community complains again and doesn't want toss to have a strong gateway unit anymore.
Further proof that no matter what blizzard does, the community complains anyway. I wish Blizzard would just do their thing and not listen to the community as much.
It would've been better for Blizzard to read the community as wanting Gateway units to be strong rather than wanting a singular strong Gateway unit. The new units should've complemented instead of predominated the composition.
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It would've been better for Blizzard to read the community as wanting Gateway units to be strong rather than wanting a singular strong Gateway unit. The new units should've complemented instead of predominated the composition.
Yep pretty much. Strong gateway != mass adepts and shade until gg.
And turtling into Carriers is *totally* not viable.......
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i really would hate for protoss to have another caster but i have to say i really feel like if adepts used energy whenever they completed a psionic transfer (like 25 energy to cast it, 25 to complete) the unit would be much better balanced. if this unit is changed too drastically however, the entire balance of LOTV will need to be readdressed. relaly feel that this game is balanced primarily around the zergling,marine and adept and if major changes are made to any that the overall viability of complete builds / strategies which have been mapped out over the last year or so is called into question.
overall i prefer no change, and to let the meta develop. its only been a few week after major changes, a few weeks before major changes before that, and a few weeks before major changes before even that. theres too much going on to suss out what is even good right now let alone totally broken. meta happens in waves, we just happen to be at a crashing point right now. innovation will come soon, the meta has demanded it
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On April 01 2017 03:05 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2017 19:27 Turb0Sw4g wrote:
Thor
It's already good versus light air. The High-Impact Payload transformation is a bit lacking though. A good change imo would be to move the Lock-On mechanic from the Cyclone to the Thor and merge it with High-Impact Payload. This obviously implies moving shot and a significant range boost. Both of which are good because the Thor is so clunky and slow.
i like this idea. or even more basic, the Thor can move and shoot air units in general with no specific ability. like that Diamondback Tank.
Well, I think the Thor could do with a little micro potential. I mean aside from the transformation or occasional medivac pick-up, you just let it sit in your army all of the time. That's just a waste of a potentially great unit.
Either way, I think they can and should play around with moving shot and range increase. Those are not game-breaking changes and they will very likely make the Thor more viable.
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On March 31 2017 06:00 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2017 05:51 jpg06051992 wrote:
The Thor has also been a huge balance problem in that it shifts away from being an OP a move unit and totally useless because it get's hard countered by cracklings, remove the unit from the game and replace it with the Goliath, and be...done....with....it....You can really only polish a turd so much, even if the turd is glimmering and covered in chrome, it's still a turd. I love the fact that replacing a sc2 unit by a BW unit that had nothing (it just a mech unit that shoot up and down and has zero original idea behind it, oppose to lets day the lurker) is suppose the make the game better. Like that the fact that there is a unit with the skin and the name of the goliat will all of the sudden make it an awesome balance unit.
Do you realize that Thor and Goliath operate in different ways?
Thor is like 3 times bigger, more costly and really clunky, you build like 2-3 of them at most cuz they take so much supply, and deals low dps long range AOE dmg against light good against clump of air units whereas Goliath is smaller faster you build them in bigger numbers and can divide better and deals single target high dps medium to high range dmg good against big strong capital ships.
IMHO there is place for BOTH these units in sc2, just cyclone should be replaced with Goliath.
Thor synergizes better with bio against muta ling potentially could be used against heavy phoenix comps.
Goliath synergizes better with mech and is good against late game capital ships.
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Buff Shade's vision and nerf it's cooldown- Adept problem solved.
The reason Blizzard won't buff gateway units is Warpin Mechanics. It cuts off defender's advantage hard and is just too powerful. If you combine strong gateway units with warpin mechanics it will be imba just as it is with Adepts. Adepts are powerful gateway units-no doubts. Thats why warprism + adepts are so much game ending.
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They already tried testing the Goliath in SC2 within the past year or two. They didn't think it worked out. I don't think it'll ever be added.
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Blizzard... i know my english is bad.. but stop act like you listen the community. The community is gone, you listen people who are still playing Starcraft 2, not the community who still love this game but don't want to play it. Cause the game is so fast.. Did you try to play Starcraft 2 without Hotkey like a beginner ? you can't perform a simple 1 1 1... Can you please try to play this game like you never played it? I love Starcraft, i spend 7 years on it, i made a lot of tutorial on Youtube, i was host on Iron Squid / Nation War, but if i had discover this game with LOTV, i would probably never start this game.
Cause LOTV is a game only for player who spend 3 years on Wol/Hots, at this time we had time for learning the hotkey, the unit, and improve apm. And game was fun even if you don't have the knowledge, cause it was slow, and you had time to improve. Now even if you want play it's only frustrated game for beginner player.
How many of you have friends who want play "for fun" some games of Overwatch, LOL, H1Z1 but always says no when you start to say : Let's play a Starcraft 2 4v4 it can be fun ! no it's not fun anymore, it's boring macro and Oracle at 4 min and no.. i don't want let's go LOL bro.
So please Blizzard, even BroodWar is more easy to start than LOTV, you can 6 pool and play, you can 2 gate Zealot and play on BGH. Go back to 6 harvesters start. And stop acting like we don't have time, Starcraft is not : Easy to learn, hard to masteries, it's hard to learn, hard to masteries, go back on 6 harvesters and you will have a game : Easy to learn, hard to masteries.
Trust me, i can explain you in French by so many ways why the 12 harvesters killed the game... we can't make tutorial ( and nobody does...) we can't argue why it's better to play with 12 harvesters, it's just we gain time, and lost all the beginner player so no viewers on Twitch, no prize on competition, just to gain 4 min each game.. Why David ? all the people who love Starcraft work, they don't have time to perform until 150 apm if game is not fun, if a simple 1 1 1 is 1 month of try harding ( try to do it without knowledge of hotkey, supply positioning, unit.. like a beginner who want try this game not like the guys who knows perfectly the game since 5 years) with 6 harvesters, all can play, and people who have knowledge/apm can make the difference after 7 min mark... so why you did that ? Pro player want a hard game ? good, BWHD is coming ! but Starcraft 2 need to be like LOL, Hearthstone, H1Z1, a playable game for everybody. Master will always stay Master even with 6 harvesters you know that. So why...
I know balance is important, but Thor or not, people will not play again this game, the problem is the game is too fast, this should be the first priority of David Kim : Why people don't play Starcraft 2 anymore ?
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For Protoss I think Carriers and Adepts need a nerf while Stalkers needs a buff.
Each damage uppgrade for Stalkers should add 2 damage instead of 1. That way stalkers become better mid and late game without being too strong early game.
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On April 01 2017 18:21 MockHamill wrote:
For Protoss I think Carriers and Adepts need a nerf while Stalkers needs a buff.
Each damage uppgrade for Stalkers should add 2 damage instead of 1. That way stalkers become better mid and late game without being too strong early game.
Yeah, let's bring back mass +2 blink stalkers back in PvZ, that was so enjoyable in HoTS.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On April 01 2017 18:59 mCon.Hephaistas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2017 18:21 MockHamill wrote:
For Protoss I think Carriers and Adepts need a nerf while Stalkers needs a buff.
Each damage uppgrade for Stalkers should add 2 damage instead of 1. That way stalkers become better mid and late game without being too strong early game. Yeah, let's bring back mass +2 blink stalkers back in PvZ, that was so enjoyable in HoTS.
Better than the current meta D:
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The only matchup I feel lacks a "Oh god not this shit" is ZvZ. Late game ZvP, "mid" game ZvT, it makes me want to do something else with my time. Late game ZvP feels like the answer to it is not letting them get to late game, and vice versa for ZvT - if you survive the mid game then you get a good shake at winning. Timings feel so asymmetrical for races. It's a lot easier for me to die to a Terran early/mid push than it is to kill a Terran at similar timings.
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I've got merely the same vision as the people who have common sense (to me)
Buff vs light dps stalker, mb slight nerf to blink cd if needed. Heck i want this since the beginning, but the reason is obviously that with GOOD (god?) micro they would be too strong,mostly on all in.for me, it's this unit that forced turtling into F2 A since the very beginning.Not the sentry, not the so much hated warpgate,but the unit that (in the past) make gateball so weak.
nerf adept shade cd, which is the real problems at high level : too much worker harass (worker harass is fun to me, but at high level it's just too much) , i would like a buff to it's vision as a casual diam, this was interesting to me. (like half or less the old value)
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On April 01 2017 17:39 AnossSc2 wrote:
Blizzard... i know my english is bad.. but stop act like you listen the community. The community is gone, you listen people who are still playing Starcraft 2, not the community who still love this game but don't want to play it. Cause the game is so fast.. Did you try to play Starcraft 2 without Hotkey like a beginner ? you can't perform a simple 1 1 1... Can you please try to play this game like you never played it? I love Starcraft, i spend 7 years on it, i made a lot of tutorial on Youtube, i was host on Iron Squid / Nation War, but if i had discover this game with LOTV, i would probably never start this game.
Cause LOTV is a game only for player who spend 3 years on Wol/Hots, at this time we had time for learning the hotkey, the unit, and improve apm. And game was fun even if you don't have the knowledge, cause it was slow, and you had time to improve. Now even if you want play it's only frustrated game for beginner player.
How many of you have friends who want play "for fun" some games of Overwatch, LOL, H1Z1 but always says no when you start to say : Let's play a Starcraft 2 4v4 it can be fun ! no it's not fun anymore, it's boring macro and Oracle at 4 min and no.. i don't want let's go LOL bro.
So please Blizzard, even BroodWar is more easy to start than LOTV, you can 6 pool and play, you can 2 gate Zealot and play on BGH. Go back to 6 harvesters start. And stop acting like we don't have time, Starcraft is not : Easy to learn, hard to masteries, it's hard to learn, hard to masteries, go back on 6 harvesters and you will have a game : Easy to learn, hard to masteries.
Trust me, i can explain you in French by so many ways why the 12 harvesters killed the game... we can't make tutorial ( and nobody does...) we can't argue why it's better to play with 12 harvesters, it's just we gain time, and lost all the beginner player so no viewers on Twitch, no prize on competition, just to gain 4 min each game.. Why David ? all the people who love Starcraft work, they don't have time to perform until 150 apm if game is not fun, if a simple 1 1 1 is 1 month of try harding ( try to do it without knowledge of hotkey, supply positioning, unit.. like a beginner who want try this game not like the guys who knows perfectly the game since 5 years) with 6 harvesters, all can play, and people who have knowledge/apm can make the difference until 7 min mark... so why you did that ? Pro player want a hard game ? good, BWHD is coming ! but Starcraft 2 need to be like LOL, Hearthstone, H1Z1, a playable game for everybody. Master will always stay Master even with 6 harvesters you know that. So why...
I know balance is important, but Thor or not, people will not play again this game, the problem is the game is too fast, this should be the first priority of David Kim : Why people don't play Starcraft 2 anymore ?
No thx... I dont want 6 workers back EVER... I don't want to play 1 or 2 hour games anymore... or mashing SD SD SD SD SD for 10 minutes until something is going on...
ALSO Never ever again compare SC2 to casualstone, league of boredom or h1(wth is even that?).. go play hots if you want...
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Agree with mostly everything except the adept nerf
We want to nerf adepts! To which i would reply "awesome, then what?"
Exactly my question blizzard...
You nerf adepts, which are pretty cancerous (like widow mines, liberators ecc) but give us Protoss players what in the early/mid game?
Want a suggestion: give stalkers more damage vs armored and remove the armored tag. That would stop them from literally melting against siege tanks and voids without needing to reallocate void ray damage.
Give the Zealot a flat speed buff or give them the effect of +1 upgrade from the beginning (2 swipes to kill zerglings instead of 3, with 1 going to waste because of the nature of the attack)
Make adepts an OPTION, not a requirement to keep up against your opponent.
Two cents from a Dia player...
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Nerfing adepts to buff stalkers is not really a solution to anything, since stalker blink timings/all-ins would become too powerful (you complained about them for years and now suddenly.. ?)
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On April 01 2017 17:39 AnossSc2 wrote:Blizzard... i know my english is bad.. but stop act like you listen the community. The community is gone, you listen people who are still playing Starcraft 2, not the community who still love this game but don't want to play it. Cause the game is so fast.. Did you try to play Starcraft 2 without Hotkey like a beginner ? you can't perform a simple 1 1 1... Can you please try to play this game like you never played it? I love Starcraft, i spend 7 years on it, i made a lot of tutorial on Youtube, i was host on Iron Squid / Nation War, but if i had discover this game with LOTV, i would probably never start this game. + Show Spoiler +Cause LOTV is a game only for player who spend 3 years on Wol/Hots, at this time we had time for learning the hotkey, the unit, and improve apm. And game was fun even if you don't have the knowledge, cause it was slow, and you had time to improve. Now even if you want play it's only frustrated game for beginner player.
How many of you have friends who want play "for fun" some games of Overwatch, LOL, H1Z1 but always says no when you start to say : Let's play a Starcraft 2 4v4 it can be fun ! no it's not fun anymore, it's boring macro and Oracle at 4 min and no.. i don't want let's go LOL bro.
So please Blizzard, even BroodWar is more easy to start than LOTV, you can 6 pool and play, you can 2 gate Zealot and play on BGH. Go back to 6 harvesters start. And stop acting like we don't have time, Starcraft is not : Easy to learn, hard to masteries, it's hard to learn, hard to masteries, go back on 6 harvesters and you will have a game : Easy to learn, hard to masteries.
Trust me, i can explain you in French by so many ways why the 12 harvesters killed the game... we can't make tutorial ( and nobody does...) we can't argue why it's better to play with 12 harvesters, it's just we gain time, and lost all the beginner player so no viewers on Twitch, no prize on competition, just to gain 4 min each game.. Why David ? all the people who love Starcraft work, they don't have time to perform until 150 apm if game is not fun, if a simple 1 1 1 is 1 month of try harding ( try to do it without knowledge of hotkey, supply positioning, unit.. like a beginner who want try this game not like the guys who knows perfectly the game since 5 years) with 6 harvesters, all can play, and people who have knowledge/apm can make the difference until 7 min mark... so why you did that ? Pro player want a hard game ? good, BWHD is coming ! but Starcraft 2 need to be like LOL, Hearthstone, H1Z1, a playable game for everybody. Master will always stay Master even with 6 harvesters you know that. So why...
I know balance is important, but Thor or not, people will not play again this game, the problem is the game is too fast, this should be the first priority of David Kim : Why people don't play Starcraft 2 anymore ?
Poulet, i don't know why you hate this so much. SC2 was'nt more easy to me back to HotS, i think LotV did great at making more skirmishes (as a P though) and reducing the macro part of the game which is also what put a lot of people off.,i feel like there could be a bit more minerals on bases, but that's all.
If anything, liberator/disruptor/Lurker make the game more hard for beginner.
One thing i would argue for is more tools that would allow for less apm macro-wise :
Auto-Train (idk why ppl hate this so much, actually i'm not even sure it would make the game that more easy)
Macro pylon/warpprism so you can warp directly on them without looking at them (&auto train) by pressing 2 times the unit hotkey.
Auto Larva/mule
Ingame official HUD for BO,like in HoN a moba i love : Anyone can post a build, there is the official one, and you can up/downvote & IG you can select one so you can see what you have to buy.Not an external tool to download.
Supply Block Warning
Pre-configured hotkey setup, i press one hotkey and it marks all my army but my warpprism/HT/Disru on One, my Warpprism on 2, HT/disru on 3 ,all robo on 4 all Star on 5 nexus on 7 (i'm very happy with that warpgate hotkey as most protoss i guess)
Allow to queue whatever you want, even if you can't do it right now (Terrans Adds, unavaible units & upgrades..)
I also don't understand that in all the beta they never tried to make units A LITTLE MORE big (except the stalker, a possible buff for me would be to decrease a bit it's size..), or decreasing A BIT dps/HP ratio (although that is really hard to setup)
But too late for all of this anyways.
Cheers, i hope i see you soon on OG.
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EPT
