EPTTeamliquid Map Contest 8 Results - Page 7
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zipp0w
3 Posts
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
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LordOfLings
6 Posts
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Zweck
Germany211 Posts
On February 23 2017 03:42 Charoisaur wrote: You know that in the schedule there is a period where the map makers are supposed to polish the maps and adress all bugs/issues? At this point the maps don't need to be perfectly polished. Yeah no need to playtest and polish your maps before submitting, can be done later On February 23 2017 04:52 LordOfLings wrote: This is outrageous. How could the judges POSSIBLY test out all the submitted maps in like how long took it? 2 days? Less? Les then 24 hours lol | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2475 Posts
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LordOfLings
6 Posts
Re-reading this thread is probably the reason Blizzard doesn't care to talk with many community mappers and that a good majority of the judges don't feel like talking to us here. Mapping community is toxic as hell. I was not toxic all the time, but if i read things like "i got ignored for 5 years" or if i see one guy getting 4/4 maps into finals, something seems not right. Ok, i admitt it, im very salty, but.... :/ | ||
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zipp0w
3 Posts
And now im seeing a map called Hunger Games and Hwangsan which looks like a bad copy of Abyssal Reef and 1 paint is used to cover nearly 70% of the map... Sequencer... For anyone who actually has any brains in his head will see and understand that abusing ramps on a map is retarded for gameplay. Its basically just ramp-land-ramp. Since when was this balanced? Blood Boil is okay map but when u look at it its so disgusting... Its like he didnt even try to paint it... Everything is snow and only snow...Well I guess he put too much time into it unlike me to do so. Paradisia is same a copy of Abyssal Reef altho this time its same creator of both maps. If you can see its main/natural 3rd 4th 5th etc looks completely the same except some new paths are open and closed by rocks and middle of the map is changed. Everything else i hold respect upon it and i can proudly say that they deserve win but this above is just a circus... With all that I just stated above is 85% true or even more... So from this I can say that this retarded sc2 community does not want new original work. They dont even really care much about balance either i guess.. @SidianTheBard i hold huge respect towards u and i already told u im big fan of ur maps in PM altho might have been different account since im a malicious smurf abuser, but could u please tell me ur opinion of what ive stated above is correct? And i think u would agree upon my statement that paradisia is copy of ur AR which is in my opinion a masterpiece so you tried to just hit 1 more success with same style and it worked. User was banned for this post. | ||
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LordOfLings
6 Posts
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
On February 23 2017 05:41 SidianTheBard wrote: Re-reading this thread is probably the reason Blizzard doesn't care to talk with many community mappers and that a good majority of the judges don't feel like talking to us here. Mapping community is toxic as hell. I don't know if toxic is the right word. We are definitely expressive and opinionated, and history has shown that we're entitled to that. I do think we need to humble ourselves though. | ||
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SwedenTheKid
567 Posts
Looking at some of the rush/experimental maps, I unfortunately might have actually been able to be a finalist if I submitted anything.. Congrats to the winners though, I'd still test any of these maps given the chance. | ||
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Uvantak
Uruguay1381 Posts
On February 23 2017 07:06 LordOfLings wrote: I must say Zipp0w got some arguments there.... He doesn't tho, most of it is whine, the rest of it is because he lacks the knowledge of what was happening behind the scenes and the rest of it is because he is unexperienced regarding how to make high quality maps. The TLMC staff did amazing work for the timeframes they had to work with, those speaking against it simply lack the information about the background of it. No, the staff didn't judge the maps "on less than 24 hrs", they have been judging the entire week as submissions have been sent. And for what is worth, most often than not it is very easy to see issues on maps from overviews alone, no, I don't need to spend 2 hours playing all Mu's on a map to see if it has issues, the overview most often than not is enough to clean up most of the low quality submissions, while the rest pass into the play testing and heavier discussion phase. Now, if somebody dislikes a map that's an entirely different thing than thinking it might not play ok, disliking is based on a person's tastes, aesthetics fall on that, if you don't like the aesthetics of a map, which is a fair criticism, doesn't mean that said map is "bad", same with the layout, you don't like Y maps having too many ramps? Well, that doesn't mean that Y map will play bad. zippoW, Zweck and gang, if you are not going to be constructive about your criticisms, then better not say anything, everyone here is doing what they can with the tools given, and nobody needs extra shit from salty people, and that goes for everything, be it TLMC, how you guys might see the DevTeam, or life in general. | ||
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Zweck
Germany211 Posts
On February 23 2017 08:09 Uvantak wrote: ..., the rest of it is because he lacks the knowledge of what was happening behind the scenes. You cant blame him for that at least. How about tell people what happens "behind the scenes" then next time maybe... But pls dont name me with zippow, what he says was just stupid And "while the rest pass into the play testing" how come then, that blood boil got a finalist, it obviously never got played. im not trying to shit anyone honestly. just try to understand our point of view, some decisions just seem strange if you "dont know "what happens behind the scenes". I really liked mapmaking.. I never wanted to insult anyone or attack anyone, (and i think i didnt?). i love tlmc and i like (most) of the maps. I think the biggest problem was the suddenly so short judging time, that was a lot shorter than scheduled and the fact that suddenly BTTV already showed the results without any official statement on TL and such... | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
On February 23 2017 08:17 Zweck wrote: You cant blame him for that at least. How about tell people what happens "behind the scenes" then next time maybe... But pls dont name me with zippow, what he says was just stupid And "while the rest pass into the play testing" how come then, that blood boil got a finalist, it obviously never got played. im not trying to shit anyone honestly. just try to understand our point of view, some decisions just seem strange if you "dont know "what happens behind the scenes". I really liked mapmaking.. I never wanted to insult anyone or attack anyone, (and i think i didnt?). i love tlmc and i like (most) of the maps. I think the biggest problem was the suddenly so short judging time, that was a lot shorter than scheduled and the fact that suddenly BTTV already showed the results without any official statement on TL and such... the short, rushed schedule was absolutely a problem which should be avoided in future tlmcs, and the cause of most other issues... but don't criticize the mappers and judges for this, for the most part we did the best we could with what we were given. mappers will always make mistakes, and judges will always make some questionable picks, but this is more a matter of opinion. | ||
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Uvantak
Uruguay1381 Posts
On February 23 2017 08:17 Zweck wrote: You cant blame him for that at least. How about tell people what happens "behind the scenes" then next time maybe... But pls dont name me with zippow, what he says was just stupid And "while the rest pass into the play testing" how come then, that blood boil got a finalist, it obviously never got played. im not trying to shit anyone honestly. just try to understand our point of view, some decisions just seem strange if you "dont know "what happens behind the scenes". I really liked mapmaking.. I never wanted to insult anyone or attack anyone, (and i think i didnt?). i love tlmc and i like (most) of the maps. I think the biggest problem was the suddenly so short judging time, that was a lot shorter than scheduled and the fact that suddenly BTTV already showed the results without any official statement on TL and such... That's an excellent point, and it something I have spoken with the judges about, yet, the judges are very reticent to make such things available to the public because most maps are usually discarded without them having been played, and this is because even when there is the good argument that X map might look like it produces bad gameplay, while actually produces good one after extensive testing! is a good solid mindset, judges are voluntary positions, and maps are complex beasts, which most often than not require hundreds of games for them to be understood by the judges who do not know what the creator does, what's more, as I mentioned, judges are under strong time pressure most often than not. Which under such circumstances lead to making choices which might have been different had they not being under the time constrains, and this applies to every single TLMC, not just this one, where time constrains where specially strong. Going deeper into this, having guys like ZippoW freaking out that his or others maps didn't made finalists when X did, to me is a disgusting yet relatable thing, we are humans, and as such are wired by feelings, but creating a fuss over a extreme situation such as this TLMC, which found itself under extreme time constrains, is not something positive on the slightest. On my eyes, Zippow should be commending that the Judge Team managed, under such extreme circumstances to create a map pool which overall delivers a good enough basis for Blizz to pick the WCS map pool over. Yes, it is not what I would call an ideal TLMC, or close to that, but under this timeframe, I would indeed call that this TLMC did a fair damn good job at it. So that's why Judges are reticent to deliver said info, because they know that even when they did a fair job, they also realize that said job is not perfect, and what's worse, is that at this point there is nothing that can be done to correct it, for the finalists have been announced already. What we can do, and are doing, is looking forward to find ways to further improve over past TLMC's and get things on a better position that they have been in the past. On this fashion, I hope to see you all gather and discuss ways to improve things when the time comes, we all know more than a couple things that can be improved, so yeah, when those threads or discussions start, I hope to see you all there. | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
It is not rigged. Yeah the judging process could use some improvements but it's not their fault given the lousy time frame, and it's not the mapper's faults either. Nobody is passing money under the table here.. 3-4 years ago, when map teams like TPW, Galaxy, Dreamforge, and ESV existed, there were an additional 20ish GOOD mapmakers - who are no longer with us anymore. 30 good mapmakers broadens the margin for a finalist spot, whereas today I only see about 10 original mappers who have been here from the beginning who are much better than they were in WoL days. With around 10 high end competitors, that margin is much more narrow and so the chances of being a finalist are greater, hence you see names more commonly. Ohana was a shot in the dark for me because I was facing around 30 or so mappers who were far more competent than I was. Now, if I can defeat the likes of kantu, sidian, AVEX, and negativezero, I probably have a good shot at finalist because those are the only guys I have to worry about anymore and not guys like prodiG, superouman, meltage, mereel, monitor, lefix, ragoo, G_wen, and dozens of others. It's basic math guys. If you're a new mapmaker please understand this isn't a ploy to keep you from getting exposure. Quite frankly the guys who are well known around here have simply been doing mapping for a longer stretch of time. It just takes a lot of time and effort. You made a couple decent maps yourself and think you deserve a chance because you put time into it --- we as a community have made HUNDREDS of maps for absolutely nothing at all other than a pat on the back by other mappers. And all of these maps are trashed and forgotten. You guys marching in here with your decent maps saying you should be given an equal chance remind me of myself. Let me refer you to my very first teamliquid post with my very first set of "decent maps" from 2009: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/169856-i-have-2-maps-will-you-feature-either-of-them ...coincidentally, the ideas of a TLMC and MOTM was actually mentioned in this thread of mine if you read the responses. You can thank me later. A few years ago, AVEX wasn't even around, sidian was just an average mapper who fought for exposure like the rest of us at the time. Guys like Jacky or Kantu have made more maps than most of us will make in a lifetime. For a while, Timetwister was on the rise. A few years ago, the "stars" were Jacky, superouman, monitor, LSPrime, and myself. It's different these days, and in a year or so it may change again. A few years ago, getting a map on ladder was impossible. The map community is always evolving and improving. Try and understand this. Let this be a reality check for you. I had mine long ago, and every other mapper here has had one too. If you want to provide content for this game and improve your mapping skills, then your first lesson is to stop attacking veteran mapmakers, and STOP making the judges look like devils who are out to get you. New mappers, I encourage you to join the mapping discord channel. You will grow and we will help you grow. You are probably unaware that the finalist maps were not unknown to us beforehand. Some of us actually helped balance them even though we were competing against them. Making maps solo is fine if you wish to do that but we are a community (actually good friends now) that eventually will need to replenish its numbers, so if you're a relatively new mapper and want to join the discord chat, PM me. | ||
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Comedy
489 Posts
Well, why on earth did all of the judging have to be done in 24 hours? Shouldn't we plan things a little bit better so everything doesn't have to be rushed, judges can actually get to know maps a little better, and huge mistakes can be avoided? It's the maps that are going to be on the ladder some day ffs, it's so important.. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
Compared to that, this was honestly a shitshow. Could not be any more rushed. Blizz went with bad ideas right from the start to define maps and then changed them a few days in. There was no time to do anything of the good stuff that I enjoyed in the previous contest. I'm really disappointed. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
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Meavis
Netherlands1300 Posts
On February 24 2017 00:17 Salteador Neo wrote: There was a public voting phase there is this time as well, but like always it never really mattered at all. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On February 23 2017 23:36 Comedy wrote: ppl keep saying that the judges did such a good job with the timeframe they had to work with... Well, why on earth did all of the judging have to be done in 24 hours? Shouldn't we plan things a little bit better so everything doesn't have to be rushed, judges can actually get to know maps a little better, and huge mistakes can be avoided? It's the maps that are going to be on the ladder some day ffs, it's so important.. Blizzard are the ones you should be asking, they're always the ones that plan the TLMC, from the categories to the timeframe for all the phases. How they knew it was going to happen a year in advance and only gave us 2 weeks to submit, and 1 day for judging, is beyond me too. | ||
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