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On February 13 2017 17:02 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2017 16:32 avilo wrote:
Can't really name any S tier players from Z/P other than Dark that pops to my head the rest of their respective races don't stand out or dominate. I know some people hate to read this or don't accept it but - the Terrans at the top are just simply better players than a lot of the Z/P pros. Yeah, and it's just a coincidence if they all become together best players of the world after the patch 3.8 released...
this is a retarded conversation but i have to say that these players were rated extremely high in the KR ladder and in the top leagues of KR.
there are plenty of top Protoss and zergs, all avilo has to do is follow this link: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1/Code_S
like most ppl predicted, innovation and TY both rekt their groups. if you check their profiles on gm you will also see that they are playing a massive amount of games, something like 50 + per day. ask yourself, what is the difference between a player like Inno/TY and a terran like Cure/jjakji who got manhandled in their group with Leenock and Dark? if you watched the games and removed the player names, i really doubt you could tell the difference between a player like cure and a player like innovation just from how they play, because they play so similar and both so well. but cure dropped from his group and TY/inno continue to make it look easy when other terrans fail. its not a terran vs zerg problem, its an innovation/TY vs zerg problem. when these zergs step it up, get better and download innovation, you will see that the matchup becomes tvz again
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Since dawn of times, protoss has been the most hated race. You get so much hate as protoss player and considering how hard time protoss is now having, im not suprised that many have switched race. Or just dont play anymore.
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Well we had race MMR seperated and Terran is just fun a fun fast paced race to play.
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I get over 50% zvz in na gm
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On February 13 2017 17:53 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2017 17:02 Tyrhanius wrote:On February 13 2017 16:32 avilo wrote:
Can't really name any S tier players from Z/P other than Dark that pops to my head the rest of their respective races don't stand out or dominate. I know some people hate to read this or don't accept it but - the Terrans at the top are just simply better players than a lot of the Z/P pros. Yeah, and it's just a coincidence if they all become together best players of the world after the patch 3.8 released... this is a retarded conversation but i have to say that these players were rated extremely high in the KR ladder and in the top leagues of KR. there are plenty of top Protoss and zergs, all avilo has to do is follow this link: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1/Code_Slike most ppl predicted, innovation and TY both rekt their groups. if you check their profiles on gm you will also see that they are playing a massive amount of games, something like 50 + per day. ask yourself, what is the difference between a player like Inno/TY and a terran like Cure/jjakji who got manhandled in their group with Leenock and Dark? if you watched the games and removed the player names, i really doubt you could tell the difference between a player like cure and a player like innovation just from how they play, because they play so similar and both so well. but cure dropped from his group and TY/inno continue to make it look easy when other terrans fail. its not a terran vs zerg problem, its an innovation/TY vs zerg problem. when these zergs step it up, get better and download innovation, you will see that the matchup becomes tvz again
We haven't seen Innovation for one year and two months, but just a few weeks after patch 3.8, he becomes the best player of the world ?
Nobody denies he is a good player, but all the top terran suddendly start to no match all the top Protoss and Zerg after the patch ?
Terrans now reign whithout sharing on the SC2 scene, they have won all the premier since the patch, you think it's just P and Z are lazy, and not as skilled as Terrans ?
You won't say that if it was the reverse. Yeah Terran is too strong, the patch has overbuffed them, the mapool is good for them so the game is close to be gomTvT again.
User was warned for this post
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France12791 Posts
On February 13 2017 16:32 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2017 22:56 Topdoller wrote:On February 11 2017 18:41 SirPinky wrote:
This is not a balance thread. I'm sure others will see it otherwise, but let me preface this by saying we have Protoss, Zerg and Terran all in the top RO8.
I am more concerned about the lower levels. I am high master low GM Terran. I made GM for all of 3 days this season; I'm about 5200-5300 MMR and I only Mech (vs all 3 races since 2010). I don't like ravens except for early defense. I don't see too much that changed in the last several patches that drastically changed mech or Terran; in fact, the race seems to have stayed the same, if anything from my perspective. So what suddenly changed? Yes, tanks received a damaged increase...but do you see pro players meching TvP? Raven auto turret received a buff, but do you see that changing the game (except TvT). Also, many do not know that the auto turret is EXACTLY the same with the upgrade. Blizzard simply removed the upgrade. So nothing has really changed to influence non-mirror TvT matchups for over a year.
I'm not kidding you, I'd rather not take a screenshot, but I played 12 Terrans in a row tonight. I've played 328 games this season and 140 of them are TvT. This is a 43% ratio of TvT.
Now think to yourself. I'm a mech player, so each game becomes reasonably long (again, I don't Raven). I'm pulling my hair out with frustration. Does anyone else have this ratio with similar MMR or even leagues? I remember ZvZ craft when there was a definitive reason everyone was playing Zerg: This was due to the Queen buff. But please provide a substantial change why there are so many Terrans.
I really hope to get some feedback from people who decided to switch to Terran because these statistics are not happenstance.
PS. I'm NA Server Terran is in a good spot right now, which is nice to see Btw how are you a GM Terran playing Mech, Avilo and his crew keep saying this is impossible Can't really name any S tier players from Z/P other than Dark that pops to my head the rest of their respective races don't stand out or dominate. I know some people hate to read this or don't accept it but - the Terrans at the top are just simply better players than a lot of the Z/P pros.
Shit I think the same but you thinking that as well makes me doubt myself :/.
its not a terran vs zerg problem, its an innovation/TY vs zerg problem. when these zergs step it up, get better and download innovation, you will see that the matchup becomes tvz again
Please, not that fighting half BS/half buzzword download thingy in sc2!
I've even seen French casters use it, but it doesn't work like that, it's an easy vulgarization of what really happens between two high level players :/.
As for people saying terran is too strong atm because top players such as INno/Maru/TY dare to win against mid tier P/Z, it's kind of funny :D. But most viewers can't accurately judge players' skills so it should be expected.
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To Avilo and others
I'm amazed with people absolutely wanting mech to be viable at the very top level.
Beside playing SC2 (diamond), I'm also a chess player (around 1700-1800 elo). What I like is to play king gambit as white because I like the rythm of it, I like to make sacrifices over tempo. BUT this opening is considered as black favored. I'm not going to any forum saying this opening should be buffed.
I know if I continue playing this, I'll be blocked at a certain level where everyone will know how to effectively counter it. If I wanna get higher I adapt to the game (not the contrary) and learn how to play it to win.
However, I play to have fun, so this isn't going to happen soon.
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Well you have about 40% TvT of all Games you played recently. While having a Race Distribution in your MMR Range of about 40% T and 60% not T everything seems okay.
Minor Variations from the Perfect Split according to the exact Race Distribution are Probably caused by limitations of variance due to queing up in the ladder on certain times (on average).
I assume you don't play 24/7. so there may be a unknown Schedule reason that makes more Terrans que up at the same Time you play.
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avilo's law: any sc2 thread eventually ends up being about buffing mech.
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Protoss is not fun to play. You're very limited in what you can realistically do at the beginning of the game.
So a bunch of us have stopped playing. Hence the Protoss numbers. Maybe after this latest patch PvT will be a little bit more fun and they'll come back.
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Answer: MAP CHOICE
It's quite obvious. The answer is map choice. Most of the players playing you (or not playing you, as you will see shortly) do ban up to 3 maps on a regular basis. Now let's be generous and say you banned one map, while Zerg and Protoss players on average ban only one map considered their least good. (Maybe not bad, just not the best.) Suppose, for calculations' sake, that every zerg & toss bann a map their race likes to ban. Then by very rough mathematics, you will encounter 33% x (6/7)^2 = 25% protoss, 25% zerg - that's EVEN IF THE RACES WERE EVENLY DISTRIBUTED. Now, if you don't ban maps, and if players pick maps more interestingly, obviously this fraction moves towards 30% ish. That's why you should expect to play 2/5 of your matches mirror-matchup-wise.
One more thing:
BTW, mirror match repulsion is what keeps the distributions even, even if races are not balanced. People avoid joining the Bigger race's club because then you have to play more mirror matches.
If you find this comment helpful, please mark your post as answered and make a thread where you put this in your own words. I think this is a concept that everyone should be aware of.
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On February 13 2017 18:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Since dawn of times, protoss has been the most hated race. You get so much hate as protoss player and considering how hard time protoss is now having, im not suprised that many have switched race. Or just dont play anymore.
This.
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On February 14 2017 10:17 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2017 18:07 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Since dawn of times, protoss has been the most hated race. You get so much hate as protoss player and considering how hard time protoss is now having, im not suprised that many have switched race. Or just dont play anymore. This.
I have stopped playing and I know another friend of mine who switched from P to T.
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Funny to me seeing so much Terran everywhere, and people getting so many TvT's particularly on NA which was always Zerg a-move Heaven. Terran used to be so hard to play, probably still is if you go bio. I'd never get TvT's in Masters or Diamond.
Surprised at so few protoss, although I haven't played in so long. I get that some protoss are probably fed up with people bitching nonstop, although I always used to feed off tears when playing Protoss.
User was warned for this post
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On February 14 2017 06:26 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2017 17:53 c0sm0naut wrote:On February 13 2017 17:02 Tyrhanius wrote:On February 13 2017 16:32 avilo wrote:
Can't really name any S tier players from Z/P other than Dark that pops to my head the rest of their respective races don't stand out or dominate. I know some people hate to read this or don't accept it but - the Terrans at the top are just simply better players than a lot of the Z/P pros. Yeah, and it's just a coincidence if they all become together best players of the world after the patch 3.8 released... this is a retarded conversation but i have to say that these players were rated extremely high in the KR ladder and in the top leagues of KR. there are plenty of top Protoss and zergs, all avilo has to do is follow this link: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1/Code_Slike most ppl predicted, innovation and TY both rekt their groups. if you check their profiles on gm you will also see that they are playing a massive amount of games, something like 50 + per day. ask yourself, what is the difference between a player like Inno/TY and a terran like Cure/jjakji who got manhandled in their group with Leenock and Dark? if you watched the games and removed the player names, i really doubt you could tell the difference between a player like cure and a player like innovation just from how they play, because they play so similar and both so well. but cure dropped from his group and TY/inno continue to make it look easy when other terrans fail. its not a terran vs zerg problem, its an innovation/TY vs zerg problem. when these zergs step it up, get better and download innovation, you will see that the matchup becomes tvz again We haven't seen Innovation for one year and two months, but just a few weeks after patch 3.8, he becomes the best player of the world ? Nobody denies he is a good player, but all the top terran suddendly start to no match all the top Protoss and Zerg after the patch ? Terrans now reign whithout sharing on the SC2 scene, they have won all the premier since the patch, you think it's just P and Z are lazy, and not as skilled as Terrans ? You won't say that if it was the reverse. Yeah Terran is too strong, the patch has overbuffed them, the mapool is good for them so the game is close to be gomTvT again. User was warned for this post
Rofl, why are the only people complaining about Terran getting reported and warnings while the Terran users that manage to balance whine (Avilo, MockHamill) not getting reported / warnings? (I got reported earlier for a similar post as his). Do Terran TL users just report anyone that ask for a nerf on their race? This is getting ridiculous. Watch this post get reported too.
Only thing I ask is for equal treatment for the users. It's your house and your rules but if someone gets punished for X while others don't get punished for X, that's not cool.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On February 14 2017 12:45 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2017 06:26 Tyrhanius wrote:On February 13 2017 17:53 c0sm0naut wrote:On February 13 2017 17:02 Tyrhanius wrote:On February 13 2017 16:32 avilo wrote:
Can't really name any S tier players from Z/P other than Dark that pops to my head the rest of their respective races don't stand out or dominate. I know some people hate to read this or don't accept it but - the Terrans at the top are just simply better players than a lot of the Z/P pros. Yeah, and it's just a coincidence if they all become together best players of the world after the patch 3.8 released... this is a retarded conversation but i have to say that these players were rated extremely high in the KR ladder and in the top leagues of KR. there are plenty of top Protoss and zergs, all avilo has to do is follow this link: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1/Code_Slike most ppl predicted, innovation and TY both rekt their groups. if you check their profiles on gm you will also see that they are playing a massive amount of games, something like 50 + per day. ask yourself, what is the difference between a player like Inno/TY and a terran like Cure/jjakji who got manhandled in their group with Leenock and Dark? if you watched the games and removed the player names, i really doubt you could tell the difference between a player like cure and a player like innovation just from how they play, because they play so similar and both so well. but cure dropped from his group and TY/inno continue to make it look easy when other terrans fail. its not a terran vs zerg problem, its an innovation/TY vs zerg problem. when these zergs step it up, get better and download innovation, you will see that the matchup becomes tvz again We haven't seen Innovation for one year and two months, but just a few weeks after patch 3.8, he becomes the best player of the world ? Nobody denies he is a good player, but all the top terran suddendly start to no match all the top Protoss and Zerg after the patch ? Terrans now reign whithout sharing on the SC2 scene, they have won all the premier since the patch, you think it's just P and Z are lazy, and not as skilled as Terrans ? You won't say that if it was the reverse. Yeah Terran is too strong, the patch has overbuffed them, the mapool is good for them so the game is close to be gomTvT again. User was warned for this post Rofl, why are the only people complaining about Terran getting reported and warnings while the Terran users that manage to balance whine (Avilo, MockHamill) not getting reported / warnings? (I got reported earlier for a similar post as his). Do Terran TL users just report anyone that ask for a nerf on their race? This is getting ridiculous. Watch this post get reported too. Only thing I ask is for equal treatment for the users. It's your house and your rules but if someone gets punished for X while others don't get punished for X, that's not cool.
Please take any concerns you have regarding moderation to website feedback.
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There’s no such thing as too much of a good thing, at least when it comes to diversifying media. Hollywood remains light years behind the ethnographic makeup of the US and industry leaders have, for years, used a variety of different excuses to hide their money-hungry, “safe” and downright racist decisions in casting actors of color for film and television roles.
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On February 11 2017 19:02 SirPinky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2017 18:52 MockHamill wrote:
NA GM:
40% Zerg
21% Protoss
39% Teran
NA Master:
36% Zerg
23% Protoss
36% Terran
So what happened to you is the law of large number. It is likely that unlikely things will happens when the numbers gets large enough.
I could look at numbers all day, but there is a difference between analyzing numbers and engaging a community.
So what you're saying is: your - likely exaggerated - anecdote trumps proper statistics?
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On February 14 2017 12:45 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2017 06:26 Tyrhanius wrote:On February 13 2017 17:53 c0sm0naut wrote:On February 13 2017 17:02 Tyrhanius wrote:On February 13 2017 16:32 avilo wrote:
Can't really name any S tier players from Z/P other than Dark that pops to my head the rest of their respective races don't stand out or dominate. I know some people hate to read this or don't accept it but - the Terrans at the top are just simply better players than a lot of the Z/P pros. Yeah, and it's just a coincidence if they all become together best players of the world after the patch 3.8 released... this is a retarded conversation but i have to say that these players were rated extremely high in the KR ladder and in the top leagues of KR. there are plenty of top Protoss and zergs, all avilo has to do is follow this link: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_Global_StarCraft_II_League_Season_1/Code_Slike most ppl predicted, innovation and TY both rekt their groups. if you check their profiles on gm you will also see that they are playing a massive amount of games, something like 50 + per day. ask yourself, what is the difference between a player like Inno/TY and a terran like Cure/jjakji who got manhandled in their group with Leenock and Dark? if you watched the games and removed the player names, i really doubt you could tell the difference between a player like cure and a player like innovation just from how they play, because they play so similar and both so well. but cure dropped from his group and TY/inno continue to make it look easy when other terrans fail. its not a terran vs zerg problem, its an innovation/TY vs zerg problem. when these zergs step it up, get better and download innovation, you will see that the matchup becomes tvz again We haven't seen Innovation for one year and two months, but just a few weeks after patch 3.8, he becomes the best player of the world ? Nobody denies he is a good player, but all the top terran suddendly start to no match all the top Protoss and Zerg after the patch ? Terrans now reign whithout sharing on the SC2 scene, they have won all the premier since the patch, you think it's just P and Z are lazy, and not as skilled as Terrans ? You won't say that if it was the reverse. Yeah Terran is too strong, the patch has overbuffed them, the mapool is good for them so the game is close to be gomTvT again. User was warned for this post Rofl, why are the only people complaining about Terran getting reported and warnings while the Terran users that manage to balance whine (Avilo, MockHamill) not getting reported / warnings? (I got reported earlier for a similar post as his). Do Terran TL users just report anyone that ask for a nerf on their race? This is getting ridiculous. Watch this post get reported too. Only thing I ask is for equal treatment for the users. It's your house and your rules but if someone gets punished for X while others don't get punished for X, that's not cool.
TL community has always been pretty Terran favored like that
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EPT
