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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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blunderfulguy
United States1415 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
I hope those Chinese numbers are in the 6 digits | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On January 13 2017 13:12 LongShot27 wrote: 400k tournament with a whopping 4k viewers...we are a terrible community I hope those Chinese numbers are in the 6 digits IIRC, Counterstrike was at like 12k for theirs. At least it was when I glanced. Definitely wasn't the super high number you would have expected. | ||
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Aegwynn
Italy460 Posts
On January 13 2017 13:12 LongShot27 wrote: 400k tournament with a whopping 4k viewers...we are a terrible community I hope those Chinese numbers are in the 6 digits More like terrible production for a 400k tournament. 1- Bad play times 2- Half of the games are not even getting casted, there is no B stream 3- Stream gets half hour breaks randomly between series 4- I didn't even see a face of a player yet don't know when there will be a game on a stage. 5- There is not a proper schedule, series get played in random order, we never know which series when | ||
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Comedy
469 Posts
On January 13 2017 13:43 Aegwynn wrote: More like terrible production for a 400k tournament. 1- Bad play times 2- Half of the games are not even getting casted, there is no B stream 3- Stream gets half hour breaks randomly between series 4- I didn't even see a face of a player yet don't know when there will be a game on a stage. 5- There is not a proper schedule, series get played in random order, we never know which series when Honestly dude, it doesn't fucking matter. All that money....it's a great oppurtunity for the players. It doesn't need to be a perfect viewing experience for that to be awesome enough in it's own right to warrent a whole lot more people than 4k turning on the stream and leaving it idle for all I care :\ | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On January 13 2017 14:06 Comedy wrote: Honestly dude, it doesn't fucking matter. All that money....it's a great oppurtunity for the players. It doesn't need to be a perfect viewing experience for that to be awesome enough in it's own right to warrent a whole lot more people than 4k turning on the stream and leaving it idle for all I care :\ well it's great regardless but stream numbers definitely matter to encourage sponsor participation in future tournaments | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On January 13 2017 14:42 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: can Scarlett access TL to browse the thread from the other side of the chinese firewall? Yes, TL isn't blocked by China | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
gogo Scarlett. Show em whos boss. | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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Asturas
Finland587 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On January 13 2017 16:23 Asturas wrote: Who won in Neeb vs Elazer game? Liquipedia shows Neeb, stream shows Elazer. Liquipedia is correct, Neeb 2-0 Elazer | ||
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Asturas
Finland587 Posts
Thank you! Well, I was hoping for Elazer, but I think he should come out of the group anyway  | ||
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Sluskis
Sweden16 Posts
On January 13 2017 16:27 Asturas wrote: Thank you! Well, I was hoping for Elazer, but I think he should come out of the group anyway I dont think Elazer will make it out of the group. I think Neeb, Scarlett and iAsonu will advance Edit: I forgot about MajOr. I'd put MajOr over Elazer too atm... | ||
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maitiky
Czech Republic54 Posts
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ArtyK
France3143 Posts
On January 13 2017 21:29 maitiky wrote: Can anyone explain to me why is Elazer going to the Ro12 instead of MajOr? They both are 3-2 (W-L), both have map score 7-6 and MajOr defeated Elazer 2-1... so why it's not MajOr on the 3rd spot in their group? Scarlett MajOr and Elazer are tied in game won/loss, so then they look at head to head between those 3 : Scarlett 2-0 MajOr who 2-1 Elazer who beats Scarlett 2-1, that's a tie again, then we look at map scores from games between the 3 and Elazer goes through with a 3-3 vs MajOr's 2-3 | ||
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maitiky
Czech Republic54 Posts
 On January 13 2017 21:31 ArtyK wrote: Scarlett MajOr and Elazer are tied in game won/loss, so then they look at head to head between those 3 : Scarlett 2-0 MajOr who 2-1 Elazer who beats Scarlett 2-1, that's a tie again, then we look at map scores from games between the 3 and Elazer goes through with a 3-3 vs MajOr's 2-3 Thanks!  | ||
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tantalus
69 Posts
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Elentos
55572 Posts
On January 13 2017 23:04 tantalus wrote: How did Showtime not advance in first when he had a better map score than TY and tied in number of sets won/lost? The first tie breaker is head-to-head and TY beat Showtime. | ||
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trada
Germany347 Posts
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wraggy1234
United Kingdom135 Posts
Scarlett or Stephano to win #believe | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
On January 13 2017 14:06 Comedy wrote: Honestly dude, it doesn't fucking matter. All that money....it's a great oppurtunity for the players. It doesn't need to be a perfect viewing experience for that to be awesome enough in it's own right to warrent a whole lot more people than 4k turning on the stream and leaving it idle for all I care :\ For Europe it's in the morning on a weekday: everyone is at work/in school. I'm guessing there are more viewers on the Chinese stream. Besides, crappy production values and disorganised schedules do matter. Even tiny orgs like BasetradeTV manage to put up a better structured offline event than this, supposedly, Olympics of esports. | ||
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Nezgar
Germany535 Posts
On January 13 2017 14:06 Comedy wrote: Honestly dude, it doesn't fucking matter. All that money....it's a great oppurtunity for the players. It doesn't need to be a perfect viewing experience for that to be awesome enough in it's own right to warrent a whole lot more people than 4k turning on the stream and leaving it idle for all I care :\ Just because someone throws a shit ton of money at an event doesn't mean it becomes watchable or that I will support it. Neither is the case for this event thus far. For their next event they can take some of that 400k (and some from that silly 30k african qualifier) and invest it into better production, a better schedule and a format that works properly instead of this clusterfuck. Hell, even the scoring is messed up and confusing. I don't know why the concept of "wins > map score > head-to-head" for the placement in the groups is so hard to implement and why they decided to mix that up. | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On January 14 2017 02:45 Nezgar wrote: I don't know why the concept of "wins > map score > head-to-head" for the placement in the groups is so hard to implement and why they decided to mix that up. I think this come off the best for sc2. If you think about football, only Bundesliga has this concept. Premier League, La Liga, Seria A, CL, WC and EC do use H2H>mapscore. | ||
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VanCaspel
Netherlands250 Posts
On January 13 2017 13:43 Aegwynn wrote: More like terrible production for a 400k tournament. 1- Bad play times 2- Half of the games are not even getting casted, there is no B stream 3- Stream gets half hour breaks randomly between series 4- I didn't even see a face of a player yet don't know when there will be a game on a stage. 5- There is not a proper schedule, series get played in random order, we never know which series when Heya Aegwynn! I feel like I have to step in here with a rebuttal of some kind. I'm in Changzhou to help as an admin, yet while I'm not involved with the stream I'd like to say: 1. We're in China. If the Olympic games are in China, play times are going to be bad for the rest of the world too... We can't very well expect the players to play in the middle of the night - they're playing from 11-21h local time as it is. 2. True, it would have been great to have B-streams. An important reason why we don't have community channels casting extra matches is because we're playing on the Chinese server, which is not open to those who are not in China. So we can't invite community casters to the games that aren't casted by us. 3. Except for the switch to the main stage and back we've had pretty much back-to-back StarCraft today. I know, because I made all the lobbies and was in all the games. When a longer break threatened to appear we moved heaven and earth with the Chinese to put in an extra series to prevent that (that was TY vs. PSiArc). 4. Sucks that we don't have player cams, yes. StarCraft production when not on stage (i.e. nearly all of it) is done with limited means, and moreover: the player area (from which we don't want to move the players every time they're casted) is far from production, so no chance to get a camera feed. 5. We've been trying hard to keep the schedule on Liquipedia up-to-date. Has that not worked out? I've just personally set the correct match times on Liquipedia for tomorrow's matches (although as always at events they are somewhat flexible), and today I've been in direct contact with the TS about times as well. Let me know what went wrong! | ||
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boski055
Poland32 Posts
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Aquila Magna
Germany38 Posts
On January 14 2017 03:17 VanCaspel wrote: + Show Spoiler + Heya Aegwynn! I feel like I have to step in here with a rebuttal of some kind. I'm in Changzhou to help as an admin, yet while I'm not involved with the stream I'd like to say: 1. We're in China. If the Olympic games are in China, play times are going to be bad for the rest of the world too... We can't very well expect the players to play in the middle of the night - they're playing from 11-21h local time as it is. 2. True, it would have been great to have B-streams. An important reason why we don't have community channels casting extra matches is because we're playing on the Chinese server, which is not open to those who are not in China. So we can't invite community casters to the games that aren't casted by us. 3. Except for the switch to the main stage and back we've had pretty much back-to-back StarCraft today. I know, because I made all the lobbies and was in all the games. When a longer break threatened to appear we moved heaven and earth with the Chinese to put in an extra series to prevent that (that was TY vs. PSiArc). 4. Sucks that we don't have player cams, yes. StarCraft production when not on stage (i.e. nearly all of it) is done with limited means, and moreover: the player area (from which we don't want to move the players every time they're casted) is far from production, so no chance to get a camera feed. 5. We've been trying hard to keep the schedule on Liquipedia up-to-date. Has that not worked out? I've just personally set the correct match times on Liquipedia for tomorrow's matches (although as always at events they are somewhat flexible), and today I've been in direct contact with the TS about times as well. Let me know what went wrong! I'm just reading here and unable to watch so can't answer your question. But I really appreciate your effort at explaining some of the shortcomings being discussed here. I am sure there many things will get better with the later stages and the next installment of the tournament. For now it is as it is anyway. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
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Aegwynn
Italy460 Posts
On January 14 2017 03:17 VanCaspel wrote: Heya Aegwynn! I feel like I have to step in here with a rebuttal of some kind. I'm in Changzhou to help as an admin, yet while I'm not involved with the stream I'd like to say: 1. We're in China. If the Olympic games are in China, play times are going to be bad for the rest of the world too... We can't very well expect the players to play in the middle of the night - they're playing from 11-21h local time as it is. 2. True, it would have been great to have B-streams. An important reason why we don't have community channels casting extra matches is because we're playing on the Chinese server, which is not open to those who are not in China. So we can't invite community casters to the games that aren't casted by us. 3. Except for the switch to the main stage and back we've had pretty much back-to-back StarCraft today. I know, because I made all the lobbies and was in all the games. When a longer break threatened to appear we moved heaven and earth with the Chinese to put in an extra series to prevent that (that was TY vs. PSiArc). 4. Sucks that we don't have player cams, yes. StarCraft production when not on stage (i.e. nearly all of it) is done with limited means, and moreover: the player area (from which we don't want to move the players every time they're casted) is far from production, so no chance to get a camera feed. 5. We've been trying hard to keep the schedule on Liquipedia up-to-date. Has that not worked out? I've just personally set the correct match times on Liquipedia for tomorrow's matches (although as always at events they are somewhat flexible), and today I've been in direct contact with the TS about times as well. Let me know what went wrong! Hey Frank, i know you're the best admin ever but these issues has nothing to do with admins but the main organization itself. I remember watching some other chinese events at more reasonable times in eu, maybe i remember wrong and this one is acceptable. Other excuses would be ok for a 500 bucks online tournament, not for a 400k worldwide tournament. Like someone already mentioned before, a weekly wardi/basetrade event is more organized than this. Not to mention how scandalous is not casting %66 of the games of the grand finals. Obviously we are happy to have a big event and price pool like this but having only 4k viewers in twitch shows how much potential wasted here. Hopefully we have same event next year with better production with less price pool if necessary. | ||
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AVirtualGigolo
12 Posts
On January 13 2017 14:06 Comedy wrote: Honestly dude, it doesn't fucking matter. All that money....it's a great oppurtunity for the players. It doesn't need to be a perfect viewing experience for that to be awesome enough in it's own right to warrent a whole lot more people than 4k turning on the stream and leaving it idle for all I care :\ This game doesn't need "awesome enough" it needs straight up awesome. Yeah the money is great, but they needed to do it at peak viewing hours, without the sh*tty production values. I'll still appreciate and clearly you will too, but this is still disappointing. You are in denial if you can't admit that. | ||
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tili
United States1332 Posts
P.S. On January 14 2017 03:17 VanCaspel wrote: Heya Aegwynn! I feel like I have to step in here with a rebuttal of some kind. I'm in Changzhou to help as an admin, yet while I'm not involved with the stream I'd like to say: 1. We're in China. If the Olympic games are in China, play times are going to be bad for the rest of the world too... We can't very well expect the players to play in the middle of the night - they're playing from 11-21h local time as it is. 2. True, it would have been great to have B-streams. An important reason why we don't have community channels casting extra matches is because we're playing on the Chinese server, which is not open to those who are not in China. So we can't invite community casters to the games that aren't casted by us. 3. Except for the switch to the main stage and back we've had pretty much back-to-back StarCraft today. I know, because I made all the lobbies and was in all the games. When a longer break threatened to appear we moved heaven and earth with the Chinese to put in an extra series to prevent that (that was TY vs. PSiArc). 4. Sucks that we don't have player cams, yes. StarCraft production when not on stage (i.e. nearly all of it) is done with limited means, and moreover: the player area (from which we don't want to move the players every time they're casted) is far from production, so no chance to get a camera feed. 5. We've been trying hard to keep the schedule on Liquipedia up-to-date. Has that not worked out? I've just personally set the correct match times on Liquipedia for tomorrow's matches (although as always at events they are somewhat flexible), and today I've been in direct contact with the TS about times as well. Let me know what went wrong! Just wanted to echo above that your efforts are very appreciated. We just love SC and the players you are helping out... but really, thanks for doing all that. It sounds like a ton of work. | ||
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VanCaspel
Netherlands250 Posts
I agree with many of the sentiments that things could be better (more admins! :D), but like to say the following: - Don't think it's fair to judge Chinese for not streaming all the matches. Their government creates issues with internet so no community streamers can join the games from abroad. Should Chinese organizers be forced to fly in even more production crews (local crews have little experience) if they do an event featuring more than one match at the time, or else be called 'scandalous' and get 'disqualified' by the community? That seems a bit unfair. Reducing the amount of matches is clearly not the way to get the % of streamed matches up, and spreading an event that's already 4 days over more days is not good for the players. - The schedule for today (I updated Liquipedia) says two of the Ro12 matches won't be streamed. We're going to try our best (but NO GUARANTEE at all) to get Stephano vs. MarineLorD on stream as well, to fill a possible gap between the Ro12 and Ro8. The first Ro8 match to be played is Maru vs. the winner of Scarlett vs. Jim, and that (and only that!) will be on the main stage today. So *perhaps* before we switch to main stage we can also do Stephano vs. MarineLorD, we're holding off on that match in case it's possible. Ro8 and up will be streamed completely. Maru Ro8-match on main stage, as well as finals, no other matches on main stage unfortunately. We're collecting as many replays as possible (our Chinese admins are on it!), I'll try and get them released afterwards. Perhaps some matches could be cast from replay... Now have to hurry and get to venue! | ||
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Aegwynn
Italy460 Posts
On January 14 2017 10:02 VanCaspel wrote: Damn! I just wrote an extensive post and was about to submit when VPN bummed out, something went wrong and now I've lost it. No time to do it all again, but I'll rewrite the basics. Just to clarify: I'm not part of any of the organizing parties (I run the DSCL, quite different in scope), they've just asked me to help out as an English admin. Thanks for the compliments by the way, it's hard work for sure! There's only two English speaking admins, one of which is with production all day to help out there and coordinate with the casters and Chinese production. So basically only one admin who can communicate with players for 30 (!) series a day over the past two days. And yes, I created all the lobbies for streamed games while doing vetos.... I agree with many of the sentiments that things could be better (more admins! :D), but like to say the following: - Don't think it's fair to judge Chinese for not streaming all the matches. Their government creates issues with internet so no community streamers can join the games from abroad. Should Chinese organizers be forced to fly in even more production crews (local crews have little experience) if they do an event featuring more than one match at the time, or else be called 'scandalous' and get 'disqualified' by the community? That seems a bit unfair. Reducing the amount of matches is clearly not the way to get the % of streamed matches up, and spreading an event that's already 4 days over more days is not good for the players. - The schedule for today (I updated Liquipedia) says two of the Ro12 matches won't be streamed. We're going to try our best (but NO GUARANTEE at all) to get Stephano vs. MarineLorD on stream as well, to fill a possible gap between the Ro12 and Ro8. The first Ro8 match to be played is Maru vs. the winner of Scarlett vs. Jim, and that (and only that!) will be on the main stage today. So *perhaps* before we switch to main stage we can also do Stephano vs. MarineLorD, we're holding off on that match in case it's possible. Ro8 and up will be streamed completely. Maru Ro8-match on main stage, as well as finals, no other matches on main stage unfortunately. We're collecting as many replays as possible (our 4 Chinese admins are on it!), I'll try and get them released afterwards. Perhaps some matches could be cast from replay... Now have to hurry and get to venue! I understand your points and we appreciate your effort there. However i still disagree with the casting part, considering how much they spend for this event, they could hire a couple more casters & admins for a big event like this. Besides, even an amateur local cast >> no cast at all. Its their first event and its pretty big so i am sure that next time it will get way better if there will be any. Gl with the rest of the tourney | ||
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