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Elentos
55570 Posts
On December 16 2016 22:47 Ansibled wrote: So was the quarter final the final or was the semi final the final? The semi final was the quarter final of the final that was actually played in the Ro16 | ||
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Athelas
Poland15 Posts
This is absolutely the best iteration of Starcraft 2 I've ever played. Whole Lotv before 3.8 was utter garbage compared to this. Let players figure things out (I think hydra nerf was too fast as well). | ||
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Eiltonn
Germany307 Posts
On December 16 2016 22:46 Penev wrote: shit, I was waiting for the vods to be released on sc2links but got spoilered anyway :/ You could have watched it on Twitch on the ESL channel. Things broadcasted on Twitch usually appear as VODs immediately afterwards It's even stated in the article that cyclone hellion has worked only in the last game... And people still whine? I dislike the design very much and i think they seem to be too strong after watching 3 of the 5 games. How is what a TL article claims any counter argument to that | ||
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Penev
28524 Posts
On December 16 2016 23:15 Eiltonn wrote: You could have watched it on Twitch on the ESL channel. Things broadcasted on Twitch usually appear as VODs immediately afterwards I dislike the design very much and i think they seem to be too strong after watching 3 of the 5 games. How is what a TL article claims any counter argument to that Oh ofc. thanks I'm watching the games right now, pretty good so far  | ||
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tantalus
69 Posts
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ZertoN
Germany214 Posts
i remember reading an article here on TL claiming that he can only be truly succesful when meta favors him (Terran) and that he then goes on to destroy everything dont listen to TL articles. | ||
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Eiltonn
Germany307 Posts
Ure pretty good at quoting eh? But i remember reading an article here on TL claiming that he can only be truly succesful when meta favors him (Terran) and that he then goes on to destroy everything. Not 100% sure if thats right but cyclones look so retarded in the current game iteration. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
On December 16 2016 22:13 Eiltonn wrote: Innovation is an amazing player. But i remember reading an article here on TL claiming that he can only be truly succesful when meta favors him (Terran) and that he then goes on to destroy everything. Not 100% sure if thats right but cyclones look so retarded in the current game iteration. I havent been following SC2 too closely since LOTV but to me the new cyclone looks like a fking Warhound. I really cant say im happy about the games design lately. Also Blinding Cloud still seems to be quite a retarded ability design wise. I can't believe people would say that this a meta that favors terran when Dark beat Byun just the day before. Dark outplayed Byun with a new strategy of his own (burrowed infestors) and then Inno outplayed Dark with a new strategy of its own. If anything this meta shows that both races have good chances and that theres room for new innovative builds. | ||
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Penev
28524 Posts
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Executer08
Germany163 Posts
as INnoVation's early cyclone-hellbat push functioned as planned for the first time in the series. With Dark committing a pack of lings to an overlord drop that never reached its destination hm this doesnt seem accurate. first of all, the drop reached its destination (a baneling drop btw), but the eco dmg it did didnt matter because he was overwhelmed at home. secondly the cyclone hellbat push functioned as planned in every game inno won. as he showed its not an allin by any means, but its supposed to make your opponent invest into defenses heavily and allow yourself to expand your economy. the vaani game is a perfect example for this. after the initial push innovation was in a position that allowed him to trade effectively and deny dark's 4th. in the games he lost, dark defended too efficiently for innovation to continue the pressure and dark could get the army size, eco and tech he needed to beat him. On December 16 2016 19:30 Argonauta wrote: I just dont understand why no spire, why dark? why???? On December 17 2016 02:11 Penev wrote: Too bad Dark didn't squeeze in a Muta switch anywhere, Inno's composition was quite vulnerable to it to put it mildly. Might have put Inno of a bit for the series mutas werent an option at all. innovation was constantly in dark's face and forced him to invest his ressources into units. if dark had committed to a muta switch, he wouldve been overwhelmed before getting there and if he had done it more slowly, innovation wouldve had enough time to build thors, a starport or w/e he wanted to counter them. he also frequently scanned dark's main, always aware of the potential threat | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On December 17 2016 02:11 Penev wrote: Too bad Dark didn't squeeze in a Muta switch anywhere, Inno's composition was quite vulnerable to it to put it mildly. Might have put Inno of a bit for the series Wonder if that's possible though. Innovation put on great pressure throughout the game and had Dark committed gas too quickly, Innovation would have rolled him over with the Cyclone/Hellbat pressure. Squeezing mutas will delay vipers as well, and knowing how smart Innovation is, I am sure he had a solution for mutas with that build. I think Innovation showcased some great mech games today and it seems like mech is going in the right direction. I still think once Vipers come out this build has a hard time dealing with the vipers, but the mid game stage looks great! | ||
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yubo56
690 Posts
Dark's defenses are always like this, by the skin of his teeth while getting enough tech to throw in counterattacks. He just slipped up at an unforgiving moment. I don't think inno's cyclone opener is unbeatable or OP by any means, and it's cool to see something new. Dark has shown that a baneling drop opener *should probably* have been able to deal with the pressure, and he's definitely shown that roach openers can deal with it. I think the old cyclones were cooler/better/more interesting, but the new ones definitely aren't broken by any means. Was cool to see inno stutter stepping the cyclones so smoothly that it almost looked like a moving shot. Also though, throw in the fact that just yesterday he was dealing with an entirely different set of pressure builds equally effectively, and you can't deny Dark's adaptability and his inevitable bouncing back from this setback. Can't help but feel for him though, it seems that the zerg meta he's developed is very reactive, so meeting different players forces him to play vastly differently. Must be hard for him | ||
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DeadByDawn
United Kingdom476 Posts
I still think that they need to fix the Viper though, as once it is out the game is over when playing mech. And for ladder they need to do something with Raven. | ||
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The_Last_Terran
9 Posts
- deals +armored while tanks already do damage against armored So reactor and the tech lab seems overlaping - No early units to counter them, zerglings are counter by Hellions, Roach by Cyclones - Huge flow, 6 army supply by factory Comparing to bio, the player should have 5 barracks to get the same amount of units so mech timings are stronger than bio. I m now asking you if the bio ball has an advantage on mech ? And if we are only watching a mech transition in patch 3.8. Bio ball has some power but in these 5 games from innovation we see Dark struggling. The bonus against armored deals by tanks was supposed to hold ultralisk but now we have two units who are good against armored.. Maybe a legit answer is to remove this bonus damage against armored and give to the cyclone a spell to force micro management (which is lacking in terran army) | ||
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smilingjuggernaut
74 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 16 2016 20:17 Gwavajuice wrote: This post makes me sad, because once again some people fail to see how good INnoVation is, and why he's at the top for almost 4 years, his macro and build refining is on par to none, he always led the TvZ meta and he IS a superior player. So he wins 3-2 against Dark, and then it's the balance fault? gimme a break! The funniest part is if Dark had won, some other fucktards will be ranting about new banelings or hydras or burrowed infestors being unbeatable Stop being an idiot and see the skill of the player instead of looking desperatly for a balance issue to blame. I agree it's annoying. Innovation outplayed Dark fair and square. People were crying about zerg when Dark beat Byun in a close 3-2 series as well. Those people just need to stfu and realize balance was not why those players lost. | ||
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JuanDi
45 Posts
On December 16 2016 19:30 Argonauta wrote: I just dont understand why no spire, why dark? why???? because that takes too long and by the time you get to spire the cyclones have already killed you | ||
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JuanDi
45 Posts
On December 17 2016 07:46 blade55555 wrote: I agree it's annoying. Innovation outplayed Dark fair and square. People were crying about zerg when Dark beat Byun in a close 3-2 series as well. Those people just need to stfu and realize balance was not why those players lost. I honestly think Dark is better than Innovation, but he was just unprepared to deal with mech. It seems like he hadn't really played against it, or at least not against someone as good as Innovation using it. If you look at the games everything screams "I have no idea how to properly deal with this so I'm gonna try everything". He was caught off-guard, but I'm pretty sure that won't happen again. | ||
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JuanDi
45 Posts
On December 17 2016 02:38 phodacbiet wrote: Wonder if that's possible though. Innovation put on great pressure throughout the game and had Dark committed gas too quickly, Innovation would have rolled him over with the Cyclone/Hellbat pressure. Squeezing mutas will delay vipers as well, and knowing how smart Innovation is, I am sure he had a solution for mutas with that build. I think Innovation showcased some great mech games today and it seems like mech is going in the right direction. I still think once Vipers come out this build has a hard time dealing with the vipers, but the mid game stage looks great! I honestly think mech is fine even late game. Vipers were a thing in HoTS and mech still looked broken af. The dynamic hasn't changed all too much except for parasitic bomb which helps make air transitions harder (and if you look at the end of HoTS those thing were imba w/o PB). Yeah there's the base-spread of lotv, but it seems Innovation's openner can put on enough pressure to be able to defend decently on 4-5 bases. | ||
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Jett.Jack.Alvir
Canada2250 Posts
It wasn't a mech build with tank entrenchment and long macro game. I just want to make sure I believe what I saw. | ||
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