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Well there is'nt P feedback because there is a consistent player base who keep whining against overcharge since HotS beta, yet, and who blame every other things because they obviously can't play around more complex things like FF, for them true RTS is just spamming marine&inject, and A clicking all over the place (cuz ppl says Toss is A move race AND gimmick cause to many spell since WoL)
And losing MC &bad positionning still happens to really good players (even pros..) so no it's not just easy power. Pylon positionning is'nt evident also, because you don't place as much pylons as you would need for defence.
I liked disruptor & adept (the last could maybe use some tweaking)
I would thought they would nerf adept &buff stalker as everyone, and i'm dissapointed they nerfed the strategical aspect of adept like everyone, still i think they have their reason and im happy they don't listen to Forums Ragetard all the time.
I guess buffed blink stalkers would be too strong.
Protoss get nothing except blink DT, which is a cool feature since it's really situationnal i think, eventually we should plays carriers now it's more cost efficient and & the mineral could go to more efficient zealot..
But i did no more than a few game on test map because Queen &hydra killing my prism from the other side of earth when the funniest things to play to me is to try to have constanttly have a speed prism with disruptor is killing the fun
And still the hydra range is a too big advantage in PvZ for me with no other bonus for toss, i see this match-up completely unbalanced for me on test map and it make me sad that there is'nt any good RTS alternative TO ME.
Even PvT with the micro i see in diamond, i'm not sure not having medivac will hurt tank users that much, so overall at my level the Tank changes might be a buff idk. (but huge nerf for TvZ sure)
MSC allow the protoss to do something else than stay at home, and it's nice . by the way it's key early but as the game goes on it's importance go down.. So stop acting like it ruins everything.
FF make the game intersting cause it axes the race on field control, which seems an interseting feature to me for an RTS..
Prism range allowed to protoss actually harass with other unit than Oracle.
Oracle is less& less used as i know, on a good spot, only problems is that you can lose much if you are'nt prepared, but so are mines?
Also idk why im posting this, talking with people who things they got it true and everyone who disagree is plain stupid is useless.
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On November 18 2016 13:39 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 10:20 jinjin5000 wrote:
Last night on olimoleague, we saw big resurgence on cyclone mech
I don't see why they should drastically change it to new cyclone. We were finally seeing some hints of tvp mech working with the live cyclone too. If they wanted to be easier to use, they could have modified lock on damage and the health of cyclones
Not only that, majority of patch cyclone strength comes in early game and loses a lot of effectiveness midgame. Do people really want to invest an upgrade in mediocre unit? Especially when upgrade is on tech lab for reactorable early game unit It's been on the ladder a lot but pro scene wise that's just gumiho being gumiho. Bringing the based mech TvZ. Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 12:29 Frankenberry wrote:
Oh god. Terran bio is gonna suck donkeyballs against mech after this patch. Honestly if mech becomes a regular thing in the TvT matchup I will strongly consider quiting this game all together. Mech just isn't fun to watch, play or play against -.- It's just a horrible boring thing that I don't even understand that they want to make a thing in the first place -.- You say that now but right now everyone says TvT is not good to play. I know how it is to watch. Boring.
Yea but innovation has been doing it a lot on stream and it's interesting
Now they are completely changing it to arguably worse unit
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On November 18 2016 03:48 Beelzebub1 wrote:
It's not that I think this patch is bad per say, I just think it's still business as usual, making everything hit faster, harder, more research upgrades, not gonna lie I'm amazed to see a durability buff instead of just making the tanks move faster as Mr. Kim's balance philosophy.
The DT changes seem ridiculous though, out of all the things that could be last minute tweaked for Protoss, Warp Prism pick up (would have been a way better nerf then the HP) Oracle changes, more meaningful Adept changes (yea the vision thing makes them slightly worse but it's a sloppy, inelegant change, surprise surprise) or some type of Disruptor redesign/buff.
I'll hold more severe judgements until I play it myself when it goes live and when the pros flush it out, but it looks like Siege Tank and Raven mech are going to be ludicrously powerful and I'm going to have DT's blinking in and out of my base. Not to sound noob, but literally the last thing this game (and especially Protoss) needed was gimmick abilities to compensate for a unit just being bad.
Adepts - bad except for their ability
Immortals - ability based even if it's passive
Void Rays - completely reliant on ability to not suck
Disruptor - This things attack pretty much is an ability
Dark Templar - Sucks outside of cheese but now has gimmick ability
Stalker - terrible without their ability
Oracle - ...3 abilities....
MSC - Crap designed hero unit that has meaningless attack but 3 gimmick abilities
Phoenix - Ability based
high Templar - Great unit but still ability based
I don't get it, did they say, "there is no way to buff the Dark Templars outside of giving them an ability" or something? I don't even play Protoss but the amount of activated abilities in this game is just crazy, it's made the game so....hectic and sloppy...
All that plus you need a warp prison or a pylon plus warp gate or a pylon plus nexus to warp in units before the late game... *sigh* ...are all reasons why I stopped playing toss in LoTV. It's like "Can you please stop your lings / marines from killing my stuff for a few minutes while I'm tabbing through my army... "  Yes, I'm not very good at playing the game, and I don't think LoTV became a funnier game to play than HoTS or WoL was. Maybe as zerg, but for sure not as toss.
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Not excited for the patch, mech isn't really fun. Would rather still just 2 rax stim every game and win by 10 mins. Honestly it just seems that having to mass up a well positioned army is not fun at all, there's nothing engaging and no real skill-based multitasking. Hope this patch doesn't make bio unplayable. Haven't yet played the test map so I'm nervous. Will probably just switch back to toss just based on how much terran changed
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Did they already put the siege tank hp buff (and the other changes mentioned in this update) in the balance test mod?
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I don't get why they announce the changes, and then just don't implement them in the balance test map right away... Who really wanna play a test map that it's not even current anymore? How much time does it take to update 3 new changes... smh
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On November 18 2016 21:15 Aegwynn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 20:35 MiCroLiFe wrote:
zergs whine about reapers lol? last year only time ive seen terrans winning zergs are whit reapers. get rid of autowinninglisk, thenwe can talk. 1 armor less dont do that much imo
So its ok if terran wins only with reapers and keep the win rate at %50? You must be a really fun person. Kelazhur 3-0 Lambo only with reapers, uthermal 3-0 Scarlett only with reapers. So basically we watched 1 series less in both groups. Its only byun guyzz
well is it better if zerg have 100%winrate then?
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On November 19 2016 11:34 MiCroLiFe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 21:15 Aegwynn wrote:On November 18 2016 20:35 MiCroLiFe wrote:
zergs whine about reapers lol? last year only time ive seen terrans winning zergs are whit reapers. get rid of autowinninglisk, thenwe can talk. 1 armor less dont do that much imo
So its ok if terran wins only with reapers and keep the win rate at %50? You must be a really fun person. Kelazhur 3-0 Lambo only with reapers, uthermal 3-0 Scarlett only with reapers. So basically we watched 1 series less in both groups. Its only byun guyzz well is it better if zerg have 100%winrate then?
if zerg had %100 winrate they would immediately buff terran or nerf zerg, so yes, it would be way better than watching jumping queens
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It's kind of funny to see terran players complaining about how hard it is to counter ultra, but then they find totaly reasonable that terran can open with a cheese that has no counter and puts zerg behind even when it fails.
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The entirety of this patch is complete and utter random garbage, except for the tankivac removal.
Adepts are just gonna be even more frustrating for both sides since they're now a complete gamble.
"oh he shaded there without knowing it wasn't defended, well played i guess"
"oh i shaded there without any way to know whether there were units positionned, but since i'm forced to guess"
The tempest stun has to be the most moba-like gimmicky BS ability i've ever seen in a RTS.
No look at the reaper grenade making early game TvT and TvZ a chore.
No look at the photon overcharge, DK is apparently very satisfied with shooting supply buildings as a defense mechanism.
And DT blink and banshee speed buff while everyone has been pointing out that there is too much worker harass in LOTV is proof of how the dev team has no idea since HOTS how to make units interesting without "buffing mobility in some way". VR buff is another exemple by the way.
Garbage patch, nail in SC2's coffin. More gimmicks, more binary frustrating stuff, therefore probably even less players.
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On November 19 2016 11:32 petro1987 wrote:I don't get why they announce the changes, and then just don't implement them in the balance test map right away... Who really wanna play a test map that it's not even current anymore? How much time does it take to update 3 new changes... smh
I have no idea why it takes them so long to release changes. Most of the time the changes are so simple they could be done in ~15 minutes in the editor. I guess QE takes forever or something.
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On November 19 2016 11:32 petro1987 wrote:I don't get why they announce the changes, and then just don't implement them in the balance test map right away... Who really wanna play a test map that it's not even current anymore? How much time does it take to update 3 new changes... smh
First i won the first 4~ games, then I lost every game to EJKs protoss once he figured out making guardian shield and chargelots with a single earlygame voidray beats 6 dmg cyclones.
new 5 dmg one has not been tested and now hes decreasing their range from 6 to 4, and he isnt even going to pretend hes balancing it as he wont put it into the testmap and give it a reasonable time to be tested first
So the lesson is protosses that know how to beat 6 dmg cyclones every time who laugh at people trying to go mech are going to have a much easier time beating mech on top of how easy it is from before
I also faced a fast dt blink style where the protoss just blinked on top of my cyclones and in three seconds killed my entire army, using blink like a charge is very easy here is how you do it: click in the direction a unit is fleeing, and the dt will always swipe that unit as they pass eachother, this is crazy powerful i got destroyed by some isimba gm protoss and i am calling it here, that will be game ruining with a 100/100 cost, and why is this test also not going via the testmap first
meanwhile david kim says he is receiving feedback, what feedback this is i do not know but the testmap clearly shows mech losing every game to air transitions due to its imobility, and on big maps like frost or maps with an exposed third like apotheosis or galactic process you get starved every single time if you are masters or above
avilo could explain it to him, but essentially mech has always worked by the enemy not knowing how to respond, and the map preferences and when to expand/all in is predicated on this
so fixing bad maps and hardcounters is necessary for it to be viable.
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On November 20 2016 09:04 FoxDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2016 11:32 petro1987 wrote:On November 19 2016 08:37 Edowyth wrote:On November 19 2016 07:29 petro1987 wrote:
Did they already put the siege tank hp buff (and the other changes mentioned in this update) in the balance test mod? No; here's the last changes: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20751975541 I don't get why they announce the changes, and then just don't implement them in the balance test map right away... Who really wanna play a test map that it's not even current anymore? How much time does it take to update 3 new changes... smh First i won the first 4~ games, then I lost every game to EJKs protoss once he figured out making guardian shield and chargelots with a single earlygame voidray beats 6 dmg cyclones. new 5 dmg one has not been tested and now hes decreasing their range from 6 to 4, and he isnt even going to pretend hes balancing it as he wont put it into the testmap and give it a reasonable time to be tested firstSo the lesson is protosses that know how to beat 6 dmg cyclones every time who laugh at people trying to go mech are going to have a much easier time beating mech on top of how easy it is from before I also faced a fast dt blink style where the protoss just blinked on top of my cyclones and in three seconds killed my entire army, using blink like a charge is very easy here is how you do it: click in the direction a unit is fleeing, and the dt will always swipe that unit as they pass eachother, this is crazy powerful i got destroyed by some isimba gm protoss and i am calling it here, that will be game ruining with a 100/100 cost, and why is this test also not going via the testmap first meanwhile david kim says he is receiving feedback, what feedback this is i do not know but the testmap clearly shows mech losing every game to air transitions due to its imobility, and on big maps like frost or maps with an exposed third like apotheosis or galactic process you get starved every single time if you are masters or above avilo could explain it to him, but essentially mech has always worked by the enemy not knowing how to respond, and the map preferences and when to expand/all in is predicated on this so fixing bad maps and hardcounters is necessary for it to be viable.
This is the biggest dafuq
"We're aiming to have a new patch released in one week. Oh, wait, lets change shit at the last minute". Blizzard has this amazing ability to both act like professionals and like college undergrads working on their first project.
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The range nerf is exactly what we need to see, because it reduces the stupidly high cheese strength of the unit, and when no one builds it after the patch, Blizzard will throw up their hands and revert to the live version (with maybe a small buff) , which is a better outcome anyway.
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On November 19 2016 03:12 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2016 22:41 JackONeill wrote:On November 18 2016 15:47 Couguar wrote:On November 18 2016 15:30 JackONeill wrote:
What do we want?
A less harass and gimmick dependant protoss race !
I am so tired of reading meaningless words like gimmick. I like photon overcharge. I like my darks to have blink. I like to forcefield ramp and blink up. I dont think gateway units are bad. Why should all of it be called gimmick and claimed to be bad, when its not. If you like shooting supply buildings (that can be used offensively), you have no idea how good game design works. If you like that a harass unit that already has escape mechanisms (cloack + high movespeed) gets another one, you have no idea how good game design works. If you like that a race that (had) such a weak core army needs to bend the map's features to survive, you have no idea how good game design works. Unfortunately, it seems that the dev team shares your uninformed and archaric vision for the game. I suppose that's why people actually playing the game is the lowest it's ever been. This is completely on the money, if anyone here tries to argue with you that the MSC is cool and that Photon Overcharge is a good game mechanic then don't even waste your breathe. Anyone that knows anything about this game knows that PO, gimmick harass options to win, and hero units in SC2 is just cancer.
Well it's ok PF can shoot and can be repaired while receiving dmg ? Really realistic lol. Do take a hammer and repair a building while someone shoot it...
But that a race that master the void and can teleport units on energy field : completly gimmick that they can have a protection system...
But if you really want to remove MSC and PO are you really ready for the implications ?
Drop will be too strong, aswell some units. Expanding too hard for protoss.
So it will mean : probably medivac boost remove, every T/Z early timing nerf.
Probably add an upgrade before liberator can siege or blink faster/even without upgrade maybe.
Well drop ovie will go lair for sure.
Probably an adept buff too, faster warp in, etc...
But usually your guys don't think of that and are like : nerf this race, i don't play it, don't nerf mine.
Then they cry because the other receive buff to compensate.
Ex TvZ :
larva nerf + liberator : mutas useless on ZvT.
Terran ? "Good, i hate mutas"
well zerg can't deal with medivac so we buff queens.
Terran ? " OMG SO IMBA NERF THEM"
Just double standard.
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On November 20 2016 09:04 FoxDog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2016 11:32 petro1987 wrote:On November 19 2016 08:37 Edowyth wrote:On November 19 2016 07:29 petro1987 wrote:
Did they already put the siege tank hp buff (and the other changes mentioned in this update) in the balance test mod? No; here's the last changes: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20751975541 I don't get why they announce the changes, and then just don't implement them in the balance test map right away... Who really wanna play a test map that it's not even current anymore? How much time does it take to update 3 new changes... smh First i won the first 4~ games, then I lost every game to EJKs protoss once he figured out making guardian shield and chargelots with a single earlygame voidray beats 6 dmg cyclones. new 5 dmg one has not been tested and now hes decreasing their range from 6 to 4, and he isnt even going to pretend hes balancing it as he wont put it into the testmap and give it a reasonable time to be tested first So the lesson is protosses that know how to beat 6 dmg cyclones every time who laugh at people trying to go mech are going to have a much easier time beating mech on top of how easy it is from before I also faced a fast dt blink style where the protoss just blinked on top of my cyclones and in three seconds killed my entire army, using blink like a charge is very easy here is how you do it: click in the direction a unit is fleeing, and the dt will always swipe that unit as they pass eachother, this is crazy powerful i got destroyed by some isimba gm protoss and i am calling it here, that will be game ruining with a 100/100 cost, and why is this test also not going via the testmap first meanwhile david kim says he is receiving feedback, what feedback this is i do not know but the testmap clearly shows mech losing every game to air transitions due to its imobility, and on big maps like frost or maps with an exposed third like apotheosis or galactic process you get starved every single time if you are masters or above avilo could explain it to him, but essentially mech has always worked by the enemy not knowing how to respond, and the map preferences and when to expand/all in is predicated on this so fixing bad maps and hardcounters is necessary for it to be viable.
If you're massing cyclones & don't have any ravens or use scans while your P opponent has blink dts, the onus is on you, nothing else.
Not that this patch makes any sense though.
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On November 20 2016 10:27 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2016 03:12 Beelzebub1 wrote:On November 18 2016 22:41 JackONeill wrote:On November 18 2016 15:47 Couguar wrote:On November 18 2016 15:30 JackONeill wrote:
What do we want?
A less harass and gimmick dependant protoss race !
I am so tired of reading meaningless words like gimmick. I like photon overcharge. I like my darks to have blink. I like to forcefield ramp and blink up. I dont think gateway units are bad. Why should all of it be called gimmick and claimed to be bad, when its not. If you like shooting supply buildings (that can be used offensively), you have no idea how good game design works. If you like that a harass unit that already has escape mechanisms (cloack + high movespeed) gets another one, you have no idea how good game design works. If you like that a race that (had) such a weak core army needs to bend the map's features to survive, you have no idea how good game design works. Unfortunately, it seems that the dev team shares your uninformed and archaric vision for the game. I suppose that's why people actually playing the game is the lowest it's ever been. This is completely on the money, if anyone here tries to argue with you that the MSC is cool and that Photon Overcharge is a good game mechanic then don't even waste your breathe. Anyone that knows anything about this game knows that PO, gimmick harass options to win, and hero units in SC2 is just cancer. Well it's ok PF can shoot and can be repaired while receiving dmg ? Really realistic lol. Do take a hammer and repair a building while someone shoot it... But that a race that master the void and can teleport units on energy field : completly gimmick that they can have a protection system... But if you really want to remove MSC and PO are you really ready for the implications ? Drop will be too strong, aswell some units. Expanding too hard for protoss. So it will mean : probably medivac boost remove, every T/Z early timing nerf. Probably add an upgrade before liberator can siege or blink faster/even without upgrade maybe. Well drop ovie will go lair for sure. Probably an adept buff too, faster warp in, etc... But usually your guys don't think of that and are like : nerf this race, i don't play it, don't nerf mine. Then they cry because the other receive buff to compensate. Ex TvZ : larva nerf + liberator : mutas useless on ZvT. Terran ? "Good, i hate mutas" well zerg can't deal with medivac so we buff queens. Terran ? " OMG SO IMBA NERF THEM" Just double standard.
You're right but removing/reworking the PO could be a start, so other types of early game buffs can be discussed.
Lots of this problems started with medivac boost and removing it would be a progress as well but unfortunately they are too stubborn with their weird additions to the game and they almost never take them back.
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As protoss player, I am really annoyed by the continuous posts complaining about "gimmick" and "cancer" .... these two words are enough to make me skip a post: P, T and Z are different races, if you don't like how P works maybe you don't like this game. I like how my race works, I don't want to see it redesigned because T players want to have all races play the same.
I like PO, I think it's a cool solution, I don't think it's "gimmick" (I don't even know what this word means anymore, it's almost the same as "protoss" now..). I like adepts, I like warping in units and not producing them the same as T or Z. I like the idea of an "hero" unit like the MSC, and I think it's cool and fun to use.
I don't think that the MSC is a "one-click" denfense vs drops: in fact, I loose to drops all the times, as well as proplayers do.
Deal with the fact that this game may not be what you want, if you only want to play TvT with slightly different races.
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EPT
