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Community Feedback Update - November 17 - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
285 CommentsPost a Reply
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Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9402 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-28 14:04:56
November 28 2016 14:04 GMT
#281
(and redesign cyclone to serve a different purpose


The million dollar question: What should the purpose be? Blizzard seems to not know this.

I would say that the simpler solution is to remove potentially overlapping units (like the Cyclone). But I do think there is more potential in keeping units and reworking the fundamentals of the game.

The major reason the Thor feels worse than the Goliath is twofold:

1. Slow movement speed.
2. High damage point (delay before attacking).

However, you can easily fix both these and with those changes to the Thor I belive most people will be satisfied with the Thor.
petro1987
Profile Joined May 2009
Brazil374 Posts
November 28 2016 14:13 GMT
#282
On November 28 2016 23:04 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
(and redesign cyclone to serve a different purpose


The million dollar question: What should the purpose be? Blizzard seems to not know this.

I would say that the simpler solution is to remove potentially overlapping units (like the Cyclone). But I do think there is more potential in keeping units and reworking the fundamentals of the game.

The major reason the Thor feels worse than the Goliath is twofold:

1. Slow movement speed.
2. High damage point (delay before attacking).

However, you can easily fix both these and with those changes to the Thor I belive most people will be satisfied with the Thor.


As far as I'm concerned, they could very well just scrap the cyclone. But I know it's kinda against their policies to scrap units that were sold as new content (the LotV expansion), so I'd say they could use the cyclone like their 3.7 version, where it can fend off early oracles/warp prisms/medivacs, or just be used as a support unit.

You are correct with your analysis about the thor. But, it goes beyond points 1 and 2.
IMO, people also don't like the fact that thors are a "hero unit" in the sense that they cost too much and have big stats. In other words, I think people would prefer having 3 goliaths over 1 thor. The 3 goliaths can defend different positions, and they are also less vulnerable to spells like abduct.

When you factor in all these points, why would keep the thor anyway? What's good about it in comparison to the goliath? IMO, they just kept the thor because they are just too emotionally invested in it (collection edition thor).
petro1987
Profile Joined May 2009
Brazil374 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-28 14:14:43
November 28 2016 14:13 GMT
#283
Duplicated, please remove.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9402 Posts
November 28 2016 16:36 GMT
#284
IMO, people also don't like the fact that thors are a "hero unit" in the sense that they cost too much and have big stats


I think people just have difficulty specifying what their issue with the unit is and confuse different factors. If the Thor becomes microable I don't think people will care whether they are controlling a 6-supply unit or a 3-supply unit.

And the reason you keep it in the game is that it is easier to differentiate the Thor in "feeling" from that of the Cyclone (assuming you want two different untis vs armored and massive).

And the reason you want two different units is so terran doesn't get one single ground unit that both counters Vipers, Broodlords/Corrupters/Tempest/Carriers/Void Rays etc.

I think that with the amount of different air units/spellcasters we have in the game, we also need different type of counters - each with their own advantages and disadvantages.
Tyrhanius
Profile Joined April 2011
France947 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-28 17:51:20
November 28 2016 17:50 GMT
#285
On November 27 2016 21:49 Phaenoman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2016 21:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
On November 27 2016 19:49 Phaenoman wrote:
On November 27 2016 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
On November 27 2016 18:40 KT_Elwood wrote:
If Blizzard wanted Mech to happen, they could have looked at HotS.

PDD was good, Tanks killed light units, Hydra range was not OP.

But whatabaout da turteling?

Fun Fact: Minereals run low faster in Lotv, Turtle mech 3-4 Base won't work against Zerg that just explodes on the map + denies bases and forces Trades. Also on Maps with a "rather difficult" 3rd you can't turtle mech. And the Ravager also is kind of an "Siegebreaker" from the get go.

Zerg players never understood that vs Turtle Mech, the WORST thing you can do is plant 23 swarmhosts and wait, instead of FORCING trades via Drop, or Nydus, or techswitches.

Or do what Artosis said, Make a map where Hydras have 15 range and see if anyone spots the difference to 3.8.

You should spend more time learning the game rather than whining and pretending you know it...

Ravager won't break any siege tank line unless you have 3 ravagers per tank.

On HOTS :
If zergs were making 28 SH it's because all the other trade resulted with all zerg units dead 0 unit lost for T.
You don't trade fight with 13 range units with some 4-6 range units...
And do drop when T has 50 touretts...
But you probably better than SoO and co...

I guess artosis was joking but you take it seriously and use it to whine...
15 range hydras means they would outrange tanks, not even comparable with these 7 range hydra...

SH were also made vs bio later in Hots. The reasoning, that you really depend on them to win vs mech, is not true. They were good, but the reason was the preferred playstyle, being able to turtle as zerg, sit back and macro. No Zerg is going to tell you that SH was needed to play vs bio, still it was viable and ppl played it, just bcuz they liked it. So don't try to defend your race, instead try to be objective.

Just rewatch mech after they kill the SH on HOTS : you could see best zerg of the world like Life being crushed by mech.

But yeah a no name terran says " just do drop and nyndus : would have beaten mech ez" he probably know better how to play than kespa players, and gsl-champion...

And you're the same : " stephano beats qxc with SH vs bio" : "proof SH was imba".
If you were objective you would say :

The sh was balanced but get nerfed for design reasons, the games were long and boring, but yeah the unit was the only things zerg had to fight mech camp style and protoss deathball.

Now on lotv zerg they give zerg some new tools so we can expect to beat these composition with other units.

Where did I say that SH was imba? Seriously read my post b4 replying in a way, that only shows you don't wanna discuss, but complain no matter what I say. Then tell me sir, why did Zergs start to use SH vs bio?
At least we agree that SH was bad design-wise.

I don't get you i was talking about mech vs sh and you start bullying me : "don't try to defend your race, be objective" while talking about SH vs bio.

You're like "zerg love to turtle" just for three-four foreigners who play a few games SH vs Bio while it wasn't really a thing.
But SH vs Mech was the gold standard played by every zerg even best kespa kor each time the terran decide to go mech.

ZvT is the MU where T dictates 100% of the game :
If he goes mech zerg should adapt and play another composition, if T decides to turtle well zerg can't attack without losing and he need to wait for some viper/broodlords (and old SH) to start trading well vs defensive terran.

But T are amazing : they decided to go mech, forced the zerg to play a boring style then accused zerg that the game is long and boring...

The funny part is they get SH killed while asking for a stronger mech.

As zerg i want mech as dead as you wanted old sh dead because it's so boring to play vs mech, while LBM vs bio was much more fun, but if the T wants to play the boring style i'm forced to play roach/hydra vipers while i wanted to play LBM.

Honestly the few players that played sh vs bio are exactly the same that want to play mech at all cost except they play different races.
Kenny_mk
Profile Joined May 2015
50 Posts
November 30 2016 11:02 GMT
#286
Things is , Mech is a playstyle (not my fav one, i agree), SH was just an unit that was massed with little support, just so Z player don't die right away..

And as a P, SH was killed upon sight or you lose.. I repeat myself but i've never beat an SH player back in HotS once he is a bit settled, and same for pro player as far as i saw..

Also with larva system Zerg is supposed to be the reactionnary race..
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