• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:15
CEST 11:15
KST 18:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 20257Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202579RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder1EWC 2025 - Replay Pack1Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced26BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins EWC 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy EWC 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
What should I do if I lost my TurboTax license cod Afreeca app available on Samsung smart TV [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
How many questions are in the Publix survey?
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 563 users

Community Feedback Update - November 17 - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
285 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 All
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9377 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-28 14:04:56
November 28 2016 14:04 GMT
#281
(and redesign cyclone to serve a different purpose


The million dollar question: What should the purpose be? Blizzard seems to not know this.

I would say that the simpler solution is to remove potentially overlapping units (like the Cyclone). But I do think there is more potential in keeping units and reworking the fundamentals of the game.

The major reason the Thor feels worse than the Goliath is twofold:

1. Slow movement speed.
2. High damage point (delay before attacking).

However, you can easily fix both these and with those changes to the Thor I belive most people will be satisfied with the Thor.
petro1987
Profile Joined May 2009
Brazil374 Posts
November 28 2016 14:13 GMT
#282
On November 28 2016 23:04 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
(and redesign cyclone to serve a different purpose


The million dollar question: What should the purpose be? Blizzard seems to not know this.

I would say that the simpler solution is to remove potentially overlapping units (like the Cyclone). But I do think there is more potential in keeping units and reworking the fundamentals of the game.

The major reason the Thor feels worse than the Goliath is twofold:

1. Slow movement speed.
2. High damage point (delay before attacking).

However, you can easily fix both these and with those changes to the Thor I belive most people will be satisfied with the Thor.


As far as I'm concerned, they could very well just scrap the cyclone. But I know it's kinda against their policies to scrap units that were sold as new content (the LotV expansion), so I'd say they could use the cyclone like their 3.7 version, where it can fend off early oracles/warp prisms/medivacs, or just be used as a support unit.

You are correct with your analysis about the thor. But, it goes beyond points 1 and 2.
IMO, people also don't like the fact that thors are a "hero unit" in the sense that they cost too much and have big stats. In other words, I think people would prefer having 3 goliaths over 1 thor. The 3 goliaths can defend different positions, and they are also less vulnerable to spells like abduct.

When you factor in all these points, why would keep the thor anyway? What's good about it in comparison to the goliath? IMO, they just kept the thor because they are just too emotionally invested in it (collection edition thor).
petro1987
Profile Joined May 2009
Brazil374 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-28 14:14:43
November 28 2016 14:13 GMT
#283
Duplicated, please remove.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9377 Posts
November 28 2016 16:36 GMT
#284
IMO, people also don't like the fact that thors are a "hero unit" in the sense that they cost too much and have big stats


I think people just have difficulty specifying what their issue with the unit is and confuse different factors. If the Thor becomes microable I don't think people will care whether they are controlling a 6-supply unit or a 3-supply unit.

And the reason you keep it in the game is that it is easier to differentiate the Thor in "feeling" from that of the Cyclone (assuming you want two different untis vs armored and massive).

And the reason you want two different units is so terran doesn't get one single ground unit that both counters Vipers, Broodlords/Corrupters/Tempest/Carriers/Void Rays etc.

I think that with the amount of different air units/spellcasters we have in the game, we also need different type of counters - each with their own advantages and disadvantages.
Tyrhanius
Profile Joined April 2011
France947 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-28 17:51:20
November 28 2016 17:50 GMT
#285
On November 27 2016 21:49 Phaenoman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2016 21:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
On November 27 2016 19:49 Phaenoman wrote:
On November 27 2016 19:34 Tyrhanius wrote:
On November 27 2016 18:40 KT_Elwood wrote:
If Blizzard wanted Mech to happen, they could have looked at HotS.

PDD was good, Tanks killed light units, Hydra range was not OP.

But whatabaout da turteling?

Fun Fact: Minereals run low faster in Lotv, Turtle mech 3-4 Base won't work against Zerg that just explodes on the map + denies bases and forces Trades. Also on Maps with a "rather difficult" 3rd you can't turtle mech. And the Ravager also is kind of an "Siegebreaker" from the get go.

Zerg players never understood that vs Turtle Mech, the WORST thing you can do is plant 23 swarmhosts and wait, instead of FORCING trades via Drop, or Nydus, or techswitches.

Or do what Artosis said, Make a map where Hydras have 15 range and see if anyone spots the difference to 3.8.

You should spend more time learning the game rather than whining and pretending you know it...

Ravager won't break any siege tank line unless you have 3 ravagers per tank.

On HOTS :
If zergs were making 28 SH it's because all the other trade resulted with all zerg units dead 0 unit lost for T.
You don't trade fight with 13 range units with some 4-6 range units...
And do drop when T has 50 touretts...
But you probably better than SoO and co...

I guess artosis was joking but you take it seriously and use it to whine...
15 range hydras means they would outrange tanks, not even comparable with these 7 range hydra...

SH were also made vs bio later in Hots. The reasoning, that you really depend on them to win vs mech, is not true. They were good, but the reason was the preferred playstyle, being able to turtle as zerg, sit back and macro. No Zerg is going to tell you that SH was needed to play vs bio, still it was viable and ppl played it, just bcuz they liked it. So don't try to defend your race, instead try to be objective.

Just rewatch mech after they kill the SH on HOTS : you could see best zerg of the world like Life being crushed by mech.

But yeah a no name terran says " just do drop and nyndus : would have beaten mech ez" he probably know better how to play than kespa players, and gsl-champion...

And you're the same : " stephano beats qxc with SH vs bio" : "proof SH was imba".
If you were objective you would say :

The sh was balanced but get nerfed for design reasons, the games were long and boring, but yeah the unit was the only things zerg had to fight mech camp style and protoss deathball.

Now on lotv zerg they give zerg some new tools so we can expect to beat these composition with other units.

Where did I say that SH was imba? Seriously read my post b4 replying in a way, that only shows you don't wanna discuss, but complain no matter what I say. Then tell me sir, why did Zergs start to use SH vs bio?
At least we agree that SH was bad design-wise.

I don't get you i was talking about mech vs sh and you start bullying me : "don't try to defend your race, be objective" while talking about SH vs bio.

You're like "zerg love to turtle" just for three-four foreigners who play a few games SH vs Bio while it wasn't really a thing.
But SH vs Mech was the gold standard played by every zerg even best kespa kor each time the terran decide to go mech.

ZvT is the MU where T dictates 100% of the game :
If he goes mech zerg should adapt and play another composition, if T decides to turtle well zerg can't attack without losing and he need to wait for some viper/broodlords (and old SH) to start trading well vs defensive terran.

But T are amazing : they decided to go mech, forced the zerg to play a boring style then accused zerg that the game is long and boring...

The funny part is they get SH killed while asking for a stronger mech.

As zerg i want mech as dead as you wanted old sh dead because it's so boring to play vs mech, while LBM vs bio was much more fun, but if the T wants to play the boring style i'm forced to play roach/hydra vipers while i wanted to play LBM.

Honestly the few players that played sh vs bio are exactly the same that want to play mech at all cost except they play different races.
Kenny_mk
Profile Joined May 2015
50 Posts
November 30 2016 11:02 GMT
#286
Things is , Mech is a playstyle (not my fav one, i agree), SH was just an unit that was massed with little support, just so Z player don't die right away..

And as a P, SH was killed upon sight or you lose.. I repeat myself but i've never beat an SH player back in HotS once he is a bit settled, and same for pro player as far as i saw..

Also with larva system Zerg is supposed to be the reactionnary race..
Prev 1 13 14 15 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 45m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 267
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5004
Killer 890
actioN 618
Larva 516
Stork 290
Bisu 186
Mind 142
Leta 103
Dewaltoss 93
Soma 60
[ Show more ]
soO 51
ToSsGirL 48
sorry 41
Backho 40
Shinee 36
Sacsri 28
Sharp 23
Free 18
scan(afreeca) 16
sSak 15
JulyZerg 15
ZerO 14
Bale 7
Dota 2
XaKoH 594
XcaliburYe464
BananaSlamJamma389
League of Legends
JimRising 607
febbydoto7
Counter-Strike
olofmeister503
shoxiejesuss454
allub279
Other Games
singsing1336
SortOf131
crisheroes129
mouzStarbuck118
ZerO(Twitch)1
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta74
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2150
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling210
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
1h 45m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
WardiTV European League
1d 6h
Online Event
1d 8h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.