In a post on reddit, TaKe explained how HSC XIV was almost going to be a huge loss for him until MIFcom stepped in at the last minute, and that future Homestory Cups are unlikely to be as big as this one due to difficulty in finding sponsors.
TaKe
[...]
Thank you very much to NEEDforSEAT and MIFcom but also to all the other partners who are always supporting us.
But also for partners like this there is a limit and they have to think about money and even if they love this event they can not invest that much money in a product where they dont have a return they need. You can do that once or twice but at some point it hurts.
All these partners wanna keep working with us and invest in us but they also have to see how they can invest in the market and where it makes sense.
What i wanna say is that we definitly SOMEHOW have a HomeStoryCup but having the same budgets of our sponsors we have right now will not happen and that means we most likely dont have the HomeStoryCup "that big" anymore.
This would / makes me very sad and i wanted to share this for you and i know this text is a HUGE WALL but i feel like i have to explain all of this to you.
We had a great support of our community to donate for a lot of koreans to pay them flights / Hotels which i am very greatfull for and was SO awesome but this is just a "kinda small cost" of what we overall have with a 25 - 30 man crew working on it, the location, food, shuttles, prizemoney, external people etc etc etc
If there is a way to keep doing it I WILL and even if i have some losses I will do it! I will try to find new sponsors but i try to be realistic - It is not that easy nowadays. I will not stop doing Starcraft and not stop to do a HomeStoryCup but we have to see how we can do it in the future.
hopefully not. But the earlier smaller HSC had their charm too. HSC is definitely not a SC2 tourney I want to miss though, so I hope all the best will happen.
Ah, I read this earlier and it made my heart sink. HSC was the one tournament a year I always looked forward to because of the games, casting, and overall laid back environment.
Hopefully it comes back in the future as big but for now, I'll be enjoying HSC to its fullest. Thank you TaKe and co. for all that you've done and bringing exceptional SCII content! =]
I personally dont care if its "big" I just care about having this tournament that change from every others. With that spirit you cant find anywhere else . Juste make 12 players tourney, make 1v1/archon. I actually never really cared about whos gonna win the cup but more about which players are going to cast :D and how much fun I will have again! :D <3 take tv for all those incredible years. And I hope for more! If the spirit is intact people will keep watching :D
TaKe and HSC are among the best things that ever happened to SC2. I tend to be pretty stingy with money, but this thread got me to click on that 'donate' button.
I could quote what SinO said. What makes a HomestoryCup so awesome is the family feeling combined with whos gonna be next on the couch. You are seeing a completly different side of the players and its just a pleasure to watch. I am ready to crowdfound as much money as possible for every upcomming HSC to at least make it possible in a smaller way. Thanks for your awesome work so far! I hope you can keep it up!
take is a pretty amazing guy, and homestory cup is still the best tournament. i wish blizzard would step in. blizzard is already doing a lot for its games, but this would just make them that much cooler.
If HSC goes away the only consistent Premier Tournament organizers outside of Korea would be IEM and DH, and even they are sketchy on keeping SC2. Spells bad news for the future of the foreign scene if they go away. Right now WCS is the only thing keeping the scene afloat, and in classic Blizzard fashion they aren't telling anyone what their plans are for next year. Oh well.
Dennis, whatever you do, I hope you'll have the most success possible. Thanks for all the work you put in for us, the community, and congratulations that it paid off!
Sorry to hear about HSC, it was my favorite tournament ♥ More players and more sponsors consequently would fill in if players base would expand. Blizzard is killing SC2 by not giving F2P MP. Beside, they also neglect team games in many ways, something what low league players enjoys the most.
Hey take and taketv. I watched every single hsc and it is the only tournament besides blizzcon where i block the weekend for sc2.
but what i wanted to say is, that i liked the first smaller hsc's as much as the last ones. My favorite were maybe the first with mc. So going back to the roots with it a little bit doesn't need to be a bad thing in my opinion. A few less players from overseas. Not 25-30 people but less (like years ago). Hsc does not need to be perfect produced in my opinion. I even likeed the little smaller ones more. Without all the pro casters and just you and a few players casting.
If anyone is still in denial about the rapidly declining Starcraft 2 scene then please let this be a wake up call. It is time to act, not argue over whether it's happening.
Look at cheeseadelphia right now. 28 viewers. Yesterday morning Jaedong had 6 times as many viewers as all of Starcraft. Likewise, Destiny pops in for just one day and SC2s viewers goes from 1000 to 6000.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
Honestly, why can't the HSC be low production again like in the beginning. Isn't it all just about community and having fun. It doesn't need to be extremely professional imo .
Very thankful as always for Take and what he does for SC2
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
people are doing this for 6 years now. Everyone has a different opinion on it, there's nothing the community can do about it.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one.
Yes, that is exactly what needs to be discussed.
We cannot debate how best to polish turds with balance adjustments. No matter how many times you edit the values, the mechanics are still going to be unenjoyable.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
people are doing this for 6 years now. Everyone has a different opinion on it, there's nothing the community can do about it.
I don't expect everyone to believe. But I believe that we still have the power to improve.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
people are doing this for 6 years now. Everyone has a different opinion on it, there's nothing the community can do about it.
And that why you need real leadership. It is difficult to find someone who knows how to lead and manage, but we need someone who can see what needs to be done, and do it. The community is full of bad ideas, and that is why actual leadership and management is needed.
The problem with Blizzard not only been their failure to develop need good ideas, but their inability to weed out good ideas from bad ones, from both their own team's ideas and community ideas. They try something, and members of the community call it out immediately and explain why it isn't the right direction, but Blizzard doesn't realize it, and goes down a failed path for six months only to finally do what those members of the community said they should do.
I can give countless examples of just that. Just look at my big post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2-hots/378373-how-to-make-mech-and-stargate-play-viable) during the HOTS Beta where I said that Hellbats were too strong (and were nerfed months later) that the Immortal's hardened shield needed to go (and it went in the LOTV Beta), that Ultras needed a buff (and were buffed in LOTV) that Siege Tanks needed more damage (and are going to receive that soon), that the Carrier needed a buff and overlapped too much the Tempest (which is now being changed, yet again). It is just sad to see us going in circles.
It is a sign of mismanagement. Blizzard needs to have the ability to weed out bad ideas from good ones and implement good ideas in a timely manner.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: If anyone is still in denial about the rapidly declining Starcraft 2 scene then please let this be a wake up call. It is time to act, not argue over whether it's happening.
Look at cheeseadelphia right now. 28 viewers. Yesterday morning Jaedong had 6 times as many viewers as all of Starcraft. Likewise, Destiny pops in for just one day and SC2s viewers goes from 1000 to 6000.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I'm pretty sure the only people who think SC2 is doing fine are beyond any wake up call. They've just buried their heads in the sand so far and choose to believe that SC2 is on the upswing and is the best it's ever been, as illogical as that is.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: If anyone is still in denial about the rapidly declining Starcraft 2 scene then please let this be a wake up call. It is time to act, not argue over whether it's happening.
Look at cheeseadelphia right now. 28 viewers. Yesterday morning Jaedong had 6 times as many viewers as all of Starcraft. Likewise, Destiny pops in for just one day and SC2s viewers goes from 1000 to 6000.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
Nothing you can do. Blizzard knows it but what they recently said is that basically they don't care about players number, all they care is to leave a legacy of the game as the best made RTS.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: If anyone is still in denial about the rapidly declining Starcraft 2 scene then please let this be a wake up call. It is time to act, not argue over whether it's happening.
Look at cheeseadelphia right now. 28 viewers. Yesterday morning Jaedong had 6 times as many viewers as all of Starcraft. Likewise, Destiny pops in for just one day and SC2s viewers goes from 1000 to 6000.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
Nothing you can do. Blizzard knows it but what they recently said is that basically they don't care about players number, all they care is to leave a legacy of the game as the best made RTS.
Make no mistake, those two things go hand in hand.
People play good games and don't play bad ones, by definition of words good and bad. If Blizzard makes a good game, people are going to play it. If they don't, people won't play it, especially given the marketing surrounding SC2.
But of course Blizzard shouldn't care about player numbers, they should just make the best game they can. They just need to realize that when their game is bleeding players and viewers and is in danger of not being an E-Sport, that they are failing to make a good game.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: If anyone is still in denial about the rapidly declining Starcraft 2 scene then please let this be a wake up call. It is time to act, not argue over whether it's happening.
Look at cheeseadelphia right now. 28 viewers. Yesterday morning Jaedong had 6 times as many viewers as all of Starcraft. Likewise, Destiny pops in for just one day and SC2s viewers goes from 1000 to 6000.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
Nothing you can do. Blizzard knows it but what they recently said is that basically they don't care about players number, all they care is to leave a legacy of the game as the best made RTS.
They said nothing we could do when Blizzard shitcanned community map makers. We bitched. Now over half of the first season of 2017 will be community created maps.
You just gotta believe in yourself. Sometimes it will not work out. I'm not going to say that we have a 100% chance of changing the course.
But every time someone dismisses the state of the game, or says it's just bad luck that X game came out at the same time, or excuses what happens, they don't just lack belief in change. They don't even want to acknowledge that we can improve.
We can make things better. We don't have to be faithless. We have in the past and we will again in the future if we try.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: If anyone is still in denial about the rapidly declining Starcraft 2 scene then please let this be a wake up call. It is time to act, not argue over whether it's happening.
Look at cheeseadelphia right now. 28 viewers. Yesterday morning Jaedong had 6 times as many viewers as all of Starcraft. Likewise, Destiny pops in for just one day and SC2s viewers goes from 1000 to 6000.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
Good point !
I guess the BEST change SC2 ever had is the 12 worker start.But it came to late - it's just so boring (wol) to have 2 minutes nothing to do just building workers(hatch first 2:10 vs 0:52). The "real" game starts now really early, i guess the 6 worker thing was a big blockade for new players to get into the game.
SC2 is dying and I guess it is to late to change that state. I can remember when HSC had back in the days only on the main stream +50k viewers.
The only chance that SC2 have is to make it FREE TO PLAY ASAP.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: If anyone is still in denial about the rapidly declining Starcraft 2 scene then please let this be a wake up call. It is time to act, not argue over whether it's happening.
Look at cheeseadelphia right now. 28 viewers. Yesterday morning Jaedong had 6 times as many viewers as all of Starcraft. Likewise, Destiny pops in for just one day and SC2s viewers goes from 1000 to 6000.
We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
Good point !
I guess the BEST change SC2 ever had is the 12 worker start.But it came to late - it's just so boring (wol) to have 2 minutes nothing to do just building workers(hatch first 2:10 vs 0:52). The "real" game starts now really early, i guess the 6 worker thing was a big blockade for new players to get into the game.
SC2 is dying and I guess it is to late to change that state. I can remember when HSC had back in the days only on the main stream +50k viewers.
The only chance that SC2 have is to make it FREE TO PLAY ASAP.
I agree. One of the greatest obstacles was Starcraft competing against games with no upfront cost. LotV has sold the bulk of what it will sell. Every successful competitive game has been dirt cheap or free. We don't need the campaign, or all the Co-op commanders to be free. We just need a strong and growing playerbase for multiplayer and that will carry sales for singleplayer, co-op commanders, and any sort of microtransactions they please.
When I bring Starcraft 2 up outside Starcraft 2 sites, no ones interested. Get people interested and don't be afraid Blizzard. You've shown you care about the community and will continue supporting the game through 2017. Do that by not just making multiplayer fully free - make everyone aware. Get people in. Get people watching and excited.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Wow an opisska post that I actually agree with. What is the world coming to.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Well you're falling into the logical fallacy of authority and assuming I have no real experience when I have loads of game design experience, and I didn't downplay SC2 for years, I loved it for years and then tried to help change the direction when it went off course, but I'm going to ignore all of that for a second because it is all baseless assumptions.
So I pose to you this:
When Blizzard does something that significant amount of the community disagrees with it, then 6 months later Blizzard reverts to what the community originally asked, is that evidence that Blizzard is doing a good job or a bad one?
You can tell me how many ideas of mine they implemented months or years later:
As I stated, the design team has an inability to weed out bad ideas from good ones. This was the team that spent money and months of valuable time developing and testing the Warhound. That idea never should have left a designers head, it was horrendous in terms game design, indefensible. Or perhaps you'd like to defend it? Results matter, in games, in business, in life. And this design team is failing.
Yet they are the professionals? By definition yes, but only because they are getting paid, and being paid to do something is the definition of a professional.
And I love Starcraft, that is why I take the time to criticize it. Unfortunately, people like me are not the reason people aren't playing SC2 as much anymore, and pretending that negativity is the reason for the decline is ridiculous. I think the fact the game now violates so many game design principles is very much related to the decline of SC2. It doesn't have to be this way, the game can be fun again.
And yes, I absolutely want to play it this way. We get a new design team or perhaps a community made mod lead by people who understand Starcraft 2, and maybe it has a chance. Or we can watch it sink.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Well you're falling into the logical fallacy of authority and assuming I have no real experience when I have loads of game design experience, and I didn't downplay SC2 for years, I loved it for years and then tried to help change the direction when it went off course, but I'm going to ignore all of that for a second because it is all baseless assumptions.
So I pose to you this:
When Blizzard does something that significant amount of the community disagrees with it, then 6 months later Blizzard reverts to what the community originally asked, is that evidence that Blizzard is doing a good job or a bad one?
You can tell me how many ideas of mine they implemented months or years later:
As I stated, the design team has an inability to weed out bad ideas from good ones. This was the team that spent money and months of valuable time developing and testing the Warhound. That idea never should have left a designers head, it was horrendous in terms game design, indefensible.
Yet they are the professionals? By definition yes, because they are getting paid.
And I love Starcraft, that is why I take the time to criticize it.
And yes, I absolutely want to play it this way. We get a new design team or perhaps a community made mod lead by people who understand Starcraft 2, and maybe it has a chance. Or we can watch it sink.
Spitballing ideas on forums doesn't count as game design experience.
Bronze you are a f*cking genius you know that. Also the game has gotten to the hilarious point where I want unit and hero kill leaderboards.
That's my RTS experience. Maybe you should play it, it's fun, and then you can stop questioning me, who you don't know.
Judge ideas, not people.
I've followed game design for years, and I've designed several board games and competitive exercise games (some are quite complex) that are currently used in hospitals and therapeutic settings to help autistic children and troubled youths. That is my job.
Anyway, that is enough about me and my involvement in this thread, I'm done here so people can go back to the issues at hand. My apologies for helping to derail this thread.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Wow an opisska post that I actually agree with. What is the world coming to.
Why? Maybe you can write it differently. I read "Everythings fine and this is the best SC2 has ever been".
On November 17 2016 11:55 loginn wrote: Sometimes I really wish I was a billionaire so that I could support all these tournaments. I'd be giving prize money like candies
i wouldnt mind giving a community based tourney a few bucks to add to the pot
Thanks for all the time, effort, and money that you have put towards your events over the years. Big or small, they have all been great fun to watch. As several others have said, even though it is a lil sad to have to scale down, it will not tamper the fun of it.
On November 17 2016 11:55 loginn wrote: Sometimes I really wish I was a billionaire so that I could support all these tournaments. I'd be giving prize money like candies
On November 17 2016 11:55 loginn wrote: Sometimes I really wish I was a billionaire so that I could support all these tournaments. I'd be giving prize money like candies
That's why you aren't/wouldn't be a billionaire
Ehh billionaires spend money on far less profitable things than starcraft tournaments and still dont get poor.
On November 17 2016 11:55 loginn wrote: Sometimes I really wish I was a billionaire so that I could support all these tournaments. I'd be giving prize money like candies
That's why you aren't/wouldn't be a billionaire
Ehh billionaires spend money on far less profitable things than starcraft tournaments and still dont get poor.
The point is that you typically don't get rich by making bad business decisions
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Wow an opisska post that I actually agree with. What is the world coming to.
Staff agreeing with a post that basically projects the assumption that everyone who criticizes the game hates it and never loved it? What is the world coming to indeed.
Newsflash kids, if we hated it so much we wouldn't stick around for 6 years despite Blizzard pissing in our faces for most of that time.
Oh wait it's Plexa that explains everything lol.
On-Topic: Bit of a shame, HSC has always been one of the coolest, most entertaining tournament series out there. I'll keep tuning in to any new ones that TaKe's crew will put on in the future, even if they're gonna be downscaled or whatever. It was always about the atmosphere anyway. And when there won't be any anymore, I'll cherish the memories.
That said, crowdfunding might be worth looking into.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Well said.
@bronzeknee The community doesn't have just 1 opinion. the community consists of thousands of people who all have a different opinion. maybe you think that sc2 is flawed and has game design issues. Then there are others who agree with you but have a completely different vision of how the game should be. and then there are the ones who think sc2 is in a good state (which is apparently a "wrong" opinion to have in your mind) What I want to say is that there's no way to make everyone happy. That you have suggested things that got implemented later doesn't mean anything, by the millions of things that the community suggests it's very probable that some of these things eventually make it into the game but that doesn't make you a better game designer than blizard. I can guarantee you, if you were in charge of the balance/design team the community wouldn't be any happier than it is right now.
Time for a TakeTV portrait pack? Blizzard never really released any numbers about the WCS one, but I'm sure plenty of people will buy it just to support Take & Co.
On November 17 2016 16:23 Svetopolk wrote: Time for a TakeTV portrait pack? Blizzard never really released any numbers about the WCS one, but I'm sure plenty of people will buy it just to support Take & Co.
This is a good idea. Also they could get more exposure when Blizzard releases "Watch" in the client.
Damn, just when I would be able to go, I may miss the shot. I hope there will still be some HSC with enough people for me to have time to grab a couple places. Great run to Take and all the other working on it. Much encouraging pashun!
But since we have yet again come to this, I also agree with Opisska.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Well you're falling into the logical fallacy of authority and assuming I have no real experience when I have loads of game design experience, and I didn't downplay SC2 for years, I loved it for years and then tried to help change the direction when it went off course, but I'm going to ignore all of that for a second because it is all baseless assumptions.
So I pose to you this:
When Blizzard does something that significant amount of the community disagrees with it, then 6 months later Blizzard reverts to what the community originally asked, is that evidence that Blizzard is doing a good job or a bad one?
You can tell me how many ideas of mine they implemented months or years later:
As I stated, the design team has an inability to weed out bad ideas from good ones. This was the team that spent money and months of valuable time developing and testing the Warhound. That idea never should have left a designers head, it was horrendous in terms game design, indefensible. Or perhaps you'd like to defend it? Results matter, in games, in business, in life. And this design team is failing.
Yet they are the professionals? By definition yes, but only because they are getting paid, and being paid to do something is the definition of a professional.
And I love Starcraft, that is why I take the time to criticize it. Unfortunately, people like me are not the reason people aren't playing SC2 as much anymore, and pretending that negativity is the reason for the decline is ridiculous. I think the fact the game now violates so many game design principles is very much related to the decline of SC2. It doesn't have to be this way, the game can be fun again.
And yes, I absolutely want to play it this way. We get a new design team or perhaps a community made mod lead by people who understand Starcraft 2, and maybe it has a chance. Or we can watch it sink.
For every community proposition that was adopted 'too late' by Blizzard, you can find at least 5 with as much praise that is excessively bad. It's just a game of numbers. The community is just so much larger than the dev/design/PR/whatever team, and so eager with their keyboard that you will necessary find some good ideas. But flash news: you can't make the game perfect for everyone anyway.
This just feel like: 'I love you honey, just as I have for our 30 year together. But can you run faster and be richer? I mean, it's obviously better, you must be blind not to see it. It will only make me love you more.'
HSC started small and I see no problem returns to more or less its original state. A Blizzard sponsor would be awesome but with WCS2017 still undecided maybe it is more important for their esport team to nail a good agreement with GSL/SSL and IEM/ESL/DH
On November 17 2016 11:55 loginn wrote: Sometimes I really wish I was a billionaire so that I could support all these tournaments. I'd be giving prize money like candies
That's why you aren't/wouldn't be a billionaire
Ehh billionaires spend money on far less profitable things than starcraft tournaments and still dont get poor.
The point is that you typically don't get rich by making bad business decisions
Yeah that's what I hear all the time but I don't know anyone who hasn't ever made bad business decisions. They just got extraordinarily lucky that one time and ride that wave ever since imo.
Bronze you are a f*cking genius you know that. Also the game has gotten to the hilarious point where I want unit and hero kill leaderboards.
That's my RTS experience. Maybe you should play it, it's fun, and then you can stop questioning me, who you don't know.
Judge ideas, not people.
I've followed game design for years, and I've designed several board games and competitive exercise games (some are quite complex) that are currently used in hospitals and therapeutic settings to help autistic children and troubled youths. That is my job.
Anyway, that is enough about me and my involvement in this thread, I'm done here so people can go back to the issues at hand. My apologies for helping to derail this thread.
This 12-player Coming of the Horde map is so much fun. One needs to play it with good team members to fully realize how fun a multiplayer RTS game can be compared with how much frustration SC2 is capable of offering to casual 1v1 players having no countless hours to learn how to defend one cheese after another
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Woah! Some hypocritical conformism here. You forgot to add that we should all stop fighting and try to live in peacefull world. But you know what, critisism is the only thing that's keeping this world alive. If you believe that something is good/bad you are free to express your opinion, even if it is a "negative" opinion. Especially if it's supported by facts. SC2 is on downfall, that's obvious (playerbase, viewership etc etc). And instead of admitting it DK and company keep feeding us with balance changes noone gives a shit about. I dunno how can it not trigger negativity. It's a natural reaction to people playing dumb on you. I would even say there is not enough crititsm on TL, cause it seems that a lot of people don't get the scale of this shit and instead pretend everything's ok blaming others for "being toxic" (it seems that people are throwing this term at anyone who disagrees with them these days) and game being a failure because of that. Can one be more ignorant? Something is considered good because it's actually good, not because someone said its good. Does LoL have haters? Thousands of! Is LoL's community toxic? Hell yes. Can this even remotely stop LoL from being n1 esport and most popular game ever? "Be more positive" way of thinking is nothing but hypocritical shit. Bashing someone with critisism is the only positive thing you can do to someone if you actually care.
"hey, lets just enjoy this game, negativeness doesnt help" - well neither does silencing this topic to death. Also i cant stand those people who still claim SC2 wasnt dying.
On November 17 2016 18:14 Dungeontay wrote: "hey, lets just enjoy this game, negativeness doesnt help" - well neither does silencing this topic to death. Also i cant stand those people who still claim SC2 wasnt dying.
Cmon lets stay constructive and not wallow in it. The game isn't dead. It's not well off. But if you tuned in to the Olimoleague matches that just ended, you'd be talking about how much effort people put into tournaments and you wouldn't be calling it dead.
I am the first person to say this is not the right course we need to work with Blizzard and get the game to where it needs to be.
But just being defeatist about it, it doesn't help us or you or Blizzard. It's just getting yourself down. So think positive! We can improve!
I for one am going to enjoy the heck out of this last big HSC and save the nostalgia and sadness for when it's over and I'm back from Krefeld and hungover for at least two days.
On November 17 2016 18:14 Dungeontay wrote: "hey, lets just enjoy this game, negativeness doesnt help" - well neither does silencing this topic to death. Also i cant stand those people who still claim SC2 wasnt dying.
Cmon lets stay constructive and not wallow in it. The game isn't dead. It's not well off. But if you tuned in to the Olimoleague matches that just ended, you'd be talking about how much effort people put into tournaments and you wouldn't be calling it dead.
I am the first person to say this is not the right course we need to work with Blizzard and get the game to where it needs to be.
But just being defeatist about it, it doesn't help us or you or Blizzard. It's just getting yourself down. So think positive! We can improve!
Realistically though, how much do you think blizzard are going to change sc2 from now? Theyve had all the expansions. The only thing I keep seeing are some unit stats changes every update, no actual redesigning.
my human brain designed to subconsciously seek for familiar patterns and shapes had a hard time with your painting. Nice use of the midnight black and phthalo blue right there.
And some people will still blindly defend Legacy of the Void. So sad right now that talented people like Take and the whole lot of progamers and other personalities are struggling due to this game losing popularity. Let´s hope one day you all rise again.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Woah! Some hypocritical conformism here. You forgot to add that we should all stop fighting and try to live in peacefull world. But you know what, critisism is the only thing that's keeping this world alive. If you believe that something is good/bad you are free to express your opinion, even if it is a "negative" opinion. Especially if it's supported by facts. SC2 is on downfall, that's obvious (playerbase, viewership etc etc). And instead of admitting it DK and company keep feeding us with balance changes noone gives a shit about. I dunno how can it not trigger negativity. It's a natural reaction to people playing dumb on you. I would even say there is not enough crititsm on TL, cause it seems that a lot of people don't get the scale of this shit and instead pretend everything's ok blaming others for "being toxic" (it seems that people are throwing this term at anyone who disagrees with them these days) and game being a failure because of that. Can one be more ignorant? Something is considered good because it's actually good, not because someone said its good. Does LoL have haters? Thousands of! Is LoL's community toxic? Hell yes. Can this even remotely stop LoL from being n1 esport and most popular game ever? "Be more positive" way of thinking is nothing but hypocritical shit. Bashing someone with critisism is the only positive thing you can do to someone if you actually care.
Sure, the game declines in popularity, it's fucking six years old, in a world when the typical attention span of a kid is about twenty seconds, what else would you ever expect? It's also hard as hell and people are nowadays looking more for safe spaces than a challenge. But there is this group of vocal people, to which you apparently belong, which continues to pose negative things about Blizzard, DK and SC2 as if it were hard facts. Guess what, they are not - all that is just, you know, your opinion. But it has become customary to shit on the game and the devs to no end, with vague explanations and waving around the mantra of "game design" as if it made your opinion on how a game should look like more valuable, if you shout "game design" three times in each direction on midnight at full moon. It's such a gigantic echo chamber that I honestly think that most of you really do believe that your view is the only one absolutely correct and anyone else is delusional.
Saying that I like that game as it is has now become an instant target for carpet bombing. What have we got ourselves to, really. I never liked the game more, LoTV has brought so many awesome things, the whole feel of the game is much better, which led me to improve dramatically and enjoy playing more than ever, while broadcast games keep being the most enjoyable "TV" entertainment I know and we watch SC2 at home at mostly every time we feel like just sitting back and looking at stuff. I know that we aren't a legion, but there are apparently a couple of tens of thousands people who enjoy playing or watching the game as well, thanks to the great work of the dev team (and in my opinion in big part thanks to them not selling to every stupid idea the "community" throws at them).
SC2 is not dying, but 1vs1 mutliplayer mode is dying. At least co-op mode and arcade mode is doing very fine. Why SC2 have to be called "dead" because of the mode that has only 10% of its game's whole population?
1vs1 multiplayer mode is only one small unpopular mode of SC2.
We have to know what DK and developer team aiming. They said that they don't aim getting a lot of players, but they aim great RTS that even perfect player can't master. This is why game is getting harder and harder. But even if player leave because game is hard, Blizz don't care, because what they aim has nothing to do with playerbase.
At least, co-op mode is now saucer of the player who can't keep up with multiplayer mode. That is why now co-op mode is most popuar mode in SC2. They said whole playerbase of SC2 is 2 millions per month, I don't think this is bad number.
And I think Lotv is the most fun SC2 to watch, I don't think current situation is the problem. Player of 1vs1 may decline more, but it's ok if I can find match in 2min, it's far better than Heroes of the storm that needs at least 5 min to find the game.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Woah! Some hypocritical conformism here. You forgot to add that we should all stop fighting and try to live in peacefull world. But you know what, critisism is the only thing that's keeping this world alive. If you believe that something is good/bad you are free to express your opinion, even if it is a "negative" opinion. Especially if it's supported by facts. SC2 is on downfall, that's obvious (playerbase, viewership etc etc). And instead of admitting it DK and company keep feeding us with balance changes noone gives a shit about. I dunno how can it not trigger negativity. It's a natural reaction to people playing dumb on you. I would even say there is not enough crititsm on TL, cause it seems that a lot of people don't get the scale of this shit and instead pretend everything's ok blaming others for "being toxic" (it seems that people are throwing this term at anyone who disagrees with them these days) and game being a failure because of that. Can one be more ignorant? Something is considered good because it's actually good, not because someone said its good. Does LoL have haters? Thousands of! Is LoL's community toxic? Hell yes. Can this even remotely stop LoL from being n1 esport and most popular game ever? "Be more positive" way of thinking is nothing but hypocritical shit. Bashing someone with critisism is the only positive thing you can do to someone if you actually care.
Sure, the game declines in popularity, it's fucking six years old, in a world when the typical attention span of a kid is about twenty seconds, what else would you ever expect? It's also hard as hell and people are nowadays looking more for safe spaces than a challenge. But there is this group of vocal people, to which you apparently belong, which continues to pose negative things about Blizzard, DK and SC2 as if it were hard facts. Guess what, they are not - all that is just, you know, your opinion. But it has become customary to shit on the game and the devs to no end, with vague explanations and waving around the mantra of "game design" as if it made your opinion on how a game should look like more valuable, if you shout "game design" three times in each direction on midnight at full moon. It's such a gigantic echo chamber that I honestly think that most of you really do believe that your view is the only one absolutely correct and anyone else is delusional.
Saying that I like that game as it is has now become an instant target for carpet bombing. What have we got ourselves to, really. I never liked the game more, LoTV has brought so many awesome things, the whole feel of the game is much better, which led me to improve dramatically and enjoy playing more than ever, while broadcast games keep being the most enjoyable "TV" entertainment I know and we watch SC2 at home at mostly every time we feel like just sitting back and looking at stuff. I know that we aren't a legion, but there are apparently a couple of tens of thousands people who enjoy playing or watching the game as well, thanks to the great work of the dev team (and in my opinion in big part thanks to them not selling to every stupid idea the "community" throws at them).
how do you explain the fact that BW streamers just playing casually pull in more viewers now than HSC (not shitting on Take or whoever, it was a good run)?
Sad to see HSC (just like the korean scene) paying the prize for the failures of the sc2 dev and balancing team. But I guess thats they way it is currently. All other esports handle and address balance and design issues much much much better. League, dota 2 and even Blizzards very own OW ....
On November 17 2016 23:02 horrypotter wrote: We have to know what DK and developer team aiming. They said that they don't aim getting a lot of players, but they aim great RTS that even perfect player can't master. This is why game is getting harder and harder. But even if player leave because game is hard, Blizz don't care, because what they aim has nothing to do with playerbase.
At least, co-op mode is now saucer of the player who can't keep up with multiplayer mode. That is why now co-op mode is most popuar mode in SC2. They said whole playerbase of SC2 is 2 millions per month, I don't think this is bad number.
And I think Lotv is the most fun SC2 to watch, I don't think current situation is the problem. Player of 1vs1 may decline more, but it's ok if I can find match in 2min, it's far better than Heroes of the storm that needs at least 5 min to find the game.
Just wanted to fix that post, because i have the same opinion.
On November 17 2016 08:41 Probe1 wrote: We need to work together and put aside all the petty race balance bullshit. We need to talk about how the game has failed to captivate players and how to improve it. The time remaining for a reverse course is small but it is possible.
I agree. But I'll take it one step further, we need to talk about how the design team that has designed SC2 has failed to captivate players and demand a new one. They've had chance after chance to build off the solid foundation that was WOL (yes it had many problems, but it was a solid foundation) and they designed the game in such a way that even the Korean Professionals said the game was to hard.
And then Blizzard roundly dismissed their advice.
We need change.
Do you really want to play it this way? You people who downplay SC2 for years and insist that it should be completely different and Blizzard does it all wrong, you are helping things?! That is borderline insane. I am not sure what hurts SC2 more than all this endless negativity. Can we really expect anyone to read hundreds of pages of "David Kim doesn't know what he's doing" and "look at all these design flaws of SC2" to enthusiastically jump into the game?
SC2 is awesome and it is a result of an incredible amount of workhours of professionals. I have zero faith that any of the "keyboard game design warriors" could ever produce anything even remotely comparable. They have zero infrastructure, mostly zero real experience and just a heap of conflicting opinions. But they have apparently enough time to poison the world for the rest of us.
Woah! Some hypocritical conformism here. You forgot to add that we should all stop fighting and try to live in peacefull world. But you know what, critisism is the only thing that's keeping this world alive. If you believe that something is good/bad you are free to express your opinion, even if it is a "negative" opinion. Especially if it's supported by facts. SC2 is on downfall, that's obvious (playerbase, viewership etc etc). And instead of admitting it DK and company keep feeding us with balance changes noone gives a shit about. I dunno how can it not trigger negativity. It's a natural reaction to people playing dumb on you. I would even say there is not enough crititsm on TL, cause it seems that a lot of people don't get the scale of this shit and instead pretend everything's ok blaming others for "being toxic" (it seems that people are throwing this term at anyone who disagrees with them these days) and game being a failure because of that. Can one be more ignorant? Something is considered good because it's actually good, not because someone said its good. Does LoL have haters? Thousands of! Is LoL's community toxic? Hell yes. Can this even remotely stop LoL from being n1 esport and most popular game ever? "Be more positive" way of thinking is nothing but hypocritical shit. Bashing someone with critisism is the only positive thing you can do to someone if you actually care.
Sure, the game declines in popularity, it's fucking six years old, in a world when the typical attention span of a kid is about twenty seconds, what else would you ever expect? It's also hard as hell and people are nowadays looking more for safe spaces than a challenge. But there is this group of vocal people, to which you apparently belong, which continues to pose negative things about Blizzard, DK and SC2 as if it were hard facts. Guess what, they are not - all that is just, you know, your opinion. But it has become customary to shit on the game and the devs to no end, with vague explanations and waving around the mantra of "game design" as if it made your opinion on how a game should look like more valuable, if you shout "game design" three times in each direction on midnight at full moon. It's such a gigantic echo chamber that I honestly think that most of you really do believe that your view is the only one absolutely correct and anyone else is delusional.
Saying that I like that game as it is has now become an instant target for carpet bombing. What have we got ourselves to, really. I never liked the game more, LoTV has brought so many awesome things, the whole feel of the game is much better, which led me to improve dramatically and enjoy playing more than ever, while broadcast games keep being the most enjoyable "TV" entertainment I know and we watch SC2 at home at mostly every time we feel like just sitting back and looking at stuff. I know that we aren't a legion, but there are apparently a couple of tens of thousands people who enjoy playing or watching the game as well, thanks to the great work of the dev team (and in my opinion in big part thanks to them not selling to every stupid idea the "community" throws at them).
We are speaking about different things apparently. Did I (or anyone) try to accuse you for being positive? Or enjoying the game? My post was about you blaming those who are negative towards blizzard for "poisoning the world for the rest of us" and thus "hurting SC2 more than all". I don't want to it repeat all of this, but i guess i made myself clear that it's our essential right to be as negative as we want. Saying we are to blame for the decline is absolutely superficial. I'd say its you are being the guy who is preferring comfort to challenge with your "let's all be positive" attitude hurting the game. But i won't. Because we strongly overvalue our opinions here. Game is either good or bad (in most cases its something in between), and its success is determined by that not by some random guys bragging on forums. Either they are positive or toxic. And i didn't get your reasoning for 6 years being a sentance to game popularity. LoL Is about the same age. DOTA, CS, BW anyone? Defending game designers using arguments like "they are proffesionals they know better" seems a bit strange. Or may be its just me being absolutely immune to stuff like "public weight" or "status". I judge only by results. And btw i do enjoy the game as well (over 10k games and counting). I just think it could be so much better with another approach.
On November 17 2016 23:02 horrypotter wrote: We have to know what DK and developer team aiming. They said that they don't aim getting a lot of players, but they aim great RTS that even perfect player can't master. This is why game is getting harder and harder. But even if player leave because game is hard, Blizz don't care, because what they aim has nothing to do with playerbase.
I still can't believe i'm the only who find their reasoning hillarious. It's absurd and contradictory.
I still can't believe i'm the only who find their reasoning hillarious. It's absurd and contradictory.
If SC2 is Blizzard's only game, I agree with you. But Blizzard has so many more popular game like Overwatch/Hearthstone. They have so many online users thanks to those games. Even in SC2, there is other more popular mode.
It is not strange Blizzard thinks SC2 1vs1 multiplayer mode doesn't need a lot of player but it should be the hardest/most challenging game mode in the world.
On November 17 2016 22:00 Espartaquen wrote: And some people will still blindly defend Legacy of the Void. So sad right now that talented people like Take and the whole lot of progamers and other personalities are struggling due to this game losing popularity. Let´s hope one day you all rise again.
The game has been losing popularity for five years, Legacy of the Void is great.
This tournament is THE BEST that Starcraft has, its atmosphere is perfect, everything is perfect. This is the Starcraft family, a feeling that no other tournament has - and it must never end! Will contribute to all future ones any way I can.
This tournament is THE BEST that Starcraft has, its atmosphere is perfect, everything is perfect. This is the Starcraft family, a feeling that no other tournament has - and it must never end! Will contribute to all future ones any way I can.
I believe take said he would make it happen! just wouldn't be as big if he couldn't find some new sponsors.
I agree with you completely though, THE BEST.
Bringing starcraft home, dis my family...
Even if I never get invited to the house myself lol
I sit at home wishing I could be there and still being really happy laughing all weekend and enjoying every minute of it..
The size of the party don't matter, it's the people and sentiment that make it family.
Well, that's dedication if it's true. Take says he was awake for 20 hours and he had slept for 3 hours for one year. I don't watch StarCraft2 actively anymore, but I can appreciate that.
Big competitors like Dota, LoL, Overwatchare stealing the reins and have been for a while now.
Sucks really but understandable. I quit Sc2 a few years ago because to play at a high level it was hard on my wrists and hands and I had a lot of pain...
Which shouldn't happen from recreationally playing a video game lol.
been lurking on TL since forever, never bothered register, making an account just too hard and time consuming. but this,i mean, i had to, so thats it, i'm finally there; and all i want to say is a big thx. HSC is and will be the best Esport event to me. (So i'll leave this here hoping thats ok with the rulz, watching the last blizcon, was telling myself how much Incontrol looked like what u'd get if Matt Damon ate Matt Damon). gl and hf all.
Bloody hell, this is so incredibly sad to hear It's rare to see/find people who just genuinely love what they're doing. Taketv has always been so passionate about SC2, I don't understand why Blizz can't step in to help a little bit. (unless they've funded them before in the past, which I'm not aware of)
Maybe I'm alone in this, but for me there's not *that* much of an added value in the recent HSCs compared to the first HSCs. Will there be half the players? Half the prize pool? I don't think it will affect the atmosphere anyhow, and the atmosphere is the main reason why so many people love this tournament.
On November 18 2016 20:41 ondik wrote: Maybe I'm alone in this, but for me there's not *that* much of an added value in the recent HSCs compared to the first HSCs. Will there be half the players? Half the prize pool? I don't think it will affect the atmosphere anyhow, and the atmosphere is the main reason why so many people love this tournament.
Agreed, I actually preferred the earlier HSCs a little more because of this.
I do not enjoy playing the game and I do not enjoy watching the gameplay. I love HSC for TaKe's determination, passion and for nostalgic reasons. It is as simple as that for me.
I played and watched a lot WoL and HotS. I found LotV disappointing.
No reason to brag about it but the simple reason for SC2 events declining in viewer numbers is that people do not play the game. People that do not play will not watch because the game is really hard to understand for someone who is not playing.
what about crowdfunding? i would support this and would pay for a "ticket" for each person watching on my tv in the living room. its a great event and i would be sad to see it go.
On November 19 2016 02:34 Kenthros wrote: what about crowdfunding? i would support this and would pay for a "ticket" for each person watching on my tv in the living room. its a great event and i would be sad to see it go.
Crowdfunding is a dangerous road to go down I think. Once people have paid for the tournament they usually start expecting things to go their way. If some problems occur or they don't agree with how things are run you can end up with a lot of disgruntled people.
This doesn't have to happen of course but I can imagine why TaKe would be hesitant.
sad to see...but just at looking at Team Liquid Threads cleary display why such a great torunament like this is shrinking. Too much negativity. I always stay subcribed to your channel and support you Take...although i dont have a lot of money.
we need to come together guys.. they are still trying to make improvements.. what more improvements do we need? We can improve the scene if we want it enough.
Ask yourself.. are you an ambassador for the game? Do you talk negatively about the game? All of this has an impact.
What kind of improvements do we still need to make to the game?
HSC is my favourite tournament and it is sad to hear it but i think it is too big for its pricepool imho, some adjustments and crowdfunding can save it. - having bo5 games in ro32 groups is too much considering the total prizepool is 20k, they can be bo3 - ro32 can be made online and ro16 can be made offine, this will decrease the cost drastically - i believe qualified players pay their accomodation & travel by theirselves which is discouraging considering 24 of the 32 players don't get anything. Having only 16 players offline might cover qualified players expenses as well.
Please correct me if i am wrong about Duration/Prize Pool ratio, i am not %100 for sure but it seems much higher than other offline tournaments to me.
I have to say, this has been my second Homestory Cup, and reading this really gutted me.
I registered here simply to say that I really appreciate all of the effort and hard work that you (Take) and your team have put together to make this event possible.
I've played SC since the beginning, but only really became aware of the streams and joy of watching competitive SC2 over the last year and a half. I hate the feeling of discovering something so late, but quite honestly HSC is a serious highlight for me. The humour, the vibe - it's a fantastic watch. I'd happily contribute to a crowdfunding campaign.
On November 17 2016 08:41 choconet wrote: if anything it would be an incredible statement if Blizzard started sponsoring HSC
Blizzard won't because the HSC casters say the F word, the S word and any other obscenities.
And that's one of the reasons that makes the HSC so special - cool atmosphere, everybody's chillin' around, having fun. In its way, it maybe even be better for the event to get smaller again. I remember watching some of the first HSCs and it had this unique feeling of some 'underground' event. Nowadays it's maybe a little too much 'perfect', if you know, what I mean. But either way, TakeTV is doing a great job and every HSC has been a blast, will follow this event no matter of how big and prestige it will be.
Few thoughts about that shitstorm of opinions about game design, balance and (in)competence od Blizzard - there will always be someone who's not satisfied with current status quo of the game. Some decisions that Blizzard SC2 team did were better, some were worse. I surely don't see myself skilled enough in the game itself to make some commentaries about balance and design, but what I see around me when I talk about SC with my friends is that the game is not as appealing to newcomers as other titles that are out there. I don't see this directly as a fault of the Blizzard, it seems to me like the whole RTS genre is simply not that interesting for the upcoming generation of players, no matter how good or bad those specific RTS games are. When I get to talk with some youngsters they almost all play LoL or Overwatch with simple reasoning behind that - those games are easy to play (in a term of undestanding the basics, mechanical skill wise etc.) and it's fun, because you get to hang with your friends on Teamspeak and just chill. Starcraft is just 'not trendy' enough. That's why viewership numbers are in decline, it's not as much fault of the balance or game design or whatever, it just seems to me like the RTS era already had its peak and is just now declining and getting obsolete in some natural process of constant change.
EPT
hopefully not. But the earlier smaller HSC had their charm too. HSC is definitely not a SC2 tourney I want to miss though, so I hope all the best will happen.
. Juste make 12 players tourney, make 1v1/archon. I actually never really cared about whos gonna win the cup but more about which players are going to cast :D and how much fun I will have again! :D <3 take tv for all those incredible years. And I hope for more! If the spirit is intact people will keep watching :D
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UVLKzqU.png)
