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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. |
Russian Federation40190 Posts
Wow, i been missing on news.
So what happens further?
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On October 19 2016 19:44 lolfail9001 wrote:
Wow, i been missing on news.
So what happens further?
Some players already announced that they'll stream sc2. soo: https://www.twitch.tv/sktelecomt1oos, Innovation: http://afreecatv.com/terranfamily
Some others stated they'll continue playing the game until it's clear what happens with WCS.
Also, GSL will still run next year, no news about SSL so far. I think KeSPA said that the KeSPA Cup will be expanded(but I'm not sure if I read this right).
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On October 19 2016 12:45 maruzest wrote:
SKT twitter said
Impact -> Retirement
FUCK 
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I predict that around 65% of the players who were on those teams (cba to list them) will announce their retirement by the end of the year
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On October 18 2016 23:00 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
I think Mike Morhaime made a selfish deal to sell out blizzard with Kotick... he calculated and devised this stuff along with him I'm sure... when I see him talk on stage at blizzcon I don't see a honest person, I see someone who's only trying to selfishly build hype and won't go into details about what makes the game actually good or not..
You understand that Proleague (and honestly, even Starcraft II on the whole beyond release sales) constitutes pennies on Blizzard's grand scheme of things, and that Morhaime's passion for Starcraft has (probably) been pretty instrumental in maintaining its significant developer support?
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On October 19 2016 20:27 Noonius wrote:
I predict that around 65% of the players who were on those teams (cba to list them) will announce their retirement by the end of the year
That would be around 25 to 26 players. So keep track Noonius.
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On October 19 2016 05:37 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 05:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 03:37 letian wrote:On October 19 2016 02:48 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 01:10 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 21:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 19:48 Glioburd wrote:On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:It appears SC2 Proleague is coming to an end. The league ran from 2005-2016. Why did you include BW Proleague and call it a "league"? Because it was a league. On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:
This is not correct since BW PL ended long ago and has nothing to do with SC2 PL. The common point between BW PL and SC2 PL is : the proleague. Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues? The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague. Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it. No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended. Brood War SPL Hybrid SPL YES IT HAPPENED ! SC2 SPL. Like the Proleague is THE ONLY league that didn't get discontinued... It's the only league that got a transition. A bad one but hey. but hey, you got a game that nobody wants to play anymore and also you got another game whose scene could be alive and kicking. Oh i have nothing against BW. I still watch it but i was just calling you out on what you said. Like it or not this is the same league. The point of my ramblings is nobody needed BW to SC2 transition in the first place. It would not be that bitter if SC2 turned out to be a worthy replacement, instead it stole several years from BW fans, several years of MSL, OSL and PL, it stole new champions, new talents and much more invaluable memories. (Well, to be exact not SC2 itself but Blizzard) I see your point and largely agree with it. Forcing BW into retirement was an odd (well not from a company pov) thing to do as it was really successfull. SC2 could have worked way better if it was not enforced. I'm sure there is much more viewing on SC2 streams and tournament in foreign country because it was hard to find the streams etc... They could have left it alone and maybe it would not have gone this way. Oh well. This is done now. We can enjoy what we have left (asl or gsl or both) I think people vastly overestimate how healthy the BW scene was - it was already on a steady decline, probably not in terms of quality of matches but in terms of new talent and fresh faces. The whole fabled kespa infrastructure was basically a well oiled machine to cultivate talent, but in the last few years of BW barely anyone new broke into the scene. The last few OSL had dudes like Fantasy and JangBi ducking it out. Maybe Bisu and Flash were that good but in PL no other team managed to produce new players to challenge those guys. I think when the talent pool dries out the days of the scene become numbered and that was already the case with BW before the launch of sc2
That is true. BW would have faded out eventually. I still think the forced transition was not a good idea. Both games could have cohabited. Or maybe it was too much money to run both from kespa/sponsors.
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Altough I really did not like or even follow SC2 since 2011 any more and am probably something like an "BW Elitist" (as some might call me), I am still sad about this 
RTS genre type games are much better and interesting than stupid MOBAs and completely un-observable games like Overwatch. I really hope there will be a game that revives RTS e-Sports. Do not want to bury RTS e-Sports at all
But guys, even after ProLeague left BW, the BW scene still managed to keep its shit together. I am sure the SC2 scene can do it as well.
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On October 19 2016 20:52 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 05:37 disciple wrote:On October 19 2016 05:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 03:37 letian wrote:On October 19 2016 02:48 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 01:10 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 21:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 19:48 Glioburd wrote:On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include BW Proleague and call it a "league"? Because it was a league. On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:
This is not correct since BW PL ended long ago and has nothing to do with SC2 PL. The common point between BW PL and SC2 PL is : the proleague. Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues? The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague. Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it. No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended. Brood War SPL Hybrid SPL YES IT HAPPENED ! SC2 SPL. Like the Proleague is THE ONLY league that didn't get discontinued... It's the only league that got a transition. A bad one but hey. but hey, you got a game that nobody wants to play anymore and also you got another game whose scene could be alive and kicking. Oh i have nothing against BW. I still watch it but i was just calling you out on what you said. Like it or not this is the same league. The point of my ramblings is nobody needed BW to SC2 transition in the first place. It would not be that bitter if SC2 turned out to be a worthy replacement, instead it stole several years from BW fans, several years of MSL, OSL and PL, it stole new champions, new talents and much more invaluable memories. (Well, to be exact not SC2 itself but Blizzard) I see your point and largely agree with it. Forcing BW into retirement was an odd (well not from a company pov) thing to do as it was really successfull. SC2 could have worked way better if it was not enforced. I'm sure there is much more viewing on SC2 streams and tournament in foreign country because it was hard to find the streams etc... They could have left it alone and maybe it would not have gone this way. Oh well. This is done now. We can enjoy what we have left (asl or gsl or both) I think people vastly overestimate how healthy the BW scene was - it was already on a steady decline, probably not in terms of quality of matches but in terms of new talent and fresh faces. The whole fabled kespa infrastructure was basically a well oiled machine to cultivate talent, but in the last few years of BW barely anyone new broke into the scene. The last few OSL had dudes like Fantasy and JangBi ducking it out. Maybe Bisu and Flash were that good but in PL no other team managed to produce new players to challenge those guys. I think when the talent pool dries out the days of the scene become numbered and that was already the case with BW before the launch of sc2 That is true. BW would have faded out eventually. I still think the forced transition was not a good idea. Both games could have cohabited. Or maybe it was too much money to run both from kespa/sponsors.
It was sponsors (and Blizz, ofc) who demanded that transition.
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On October 19 2016 20:57 Thouhastmail wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 20:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 05:37 disciple wrote:On October 19 2016 05:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 03:37 letian wrote:On October 19 2016 02:48 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 01:10 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 21:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 19:48 Glioburd wrote:
[quote]
Because it was a league.
[quote]
The common point between BW PL and SC2 PL is : the proleague. Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues? The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague. Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it. No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended. Brood War SPL Hybrid SPL YES IT HAPPENED ! SC2 SPL. Like the Proleague is THE ONLY league that didn't get discontinued... It's the only league that got a transition. A bad one but hey. but hey, you got a game that nobody wants to play anymore and also you got another game whose scene could be alive and kicking. Oh i have nothing against BW. I still watch it but i was just calling you out on what you said. Like it or not this is the same league. The point of my ramblings is nobody needed BW to SC2 transition in the first place. It would not be that bitter if SC2 turned out to be a worthy replacement, instead it stole several years from BW fans, several years of MSL, OSL and PL, it stole new champions, new talents and much more invaluable memories. (Well, to be exact not SC2 itself but Blizzard) I see your point and largely agree with it. Forcing BW into retirement was an odd (well not from a company pov) thing to do as it was really successfull. SC2 could have worked way better if it was not enforced. I'm sure there is much more viewing on SC2 streams and tournament in foreign country because it was hard to find the streams etc... They could have left it alone and maybe it would not have gone this way. Oh well. This is done now. We can enjoy what we have left (asl or gsl or both) I think people vastly overestimate how healthy the BW scene was - it was already on a steady decline, probably not in terms of quality of matches but in terms of new talent and fresh faces. The whole fabled kespa infrastructure was basically a well oiled machine to cultivate talent, but in the last few years of BW barely anyone new broke into the scene. The last few OSL had dudes like Fantasy and JangBi ducking it out. Maybe Bisu and Flash were that good but in PL no other team managed to produce new players to challenge those guys. I think when the talent pool dries out the days of the scene become numbered and that was already the case with BW before the launch of sc2 That is true. BW would have faded out eventually. I still think the forced transition was not a good idea. Both games could have cohabited. Or maybe it was too much money to run both from kespa/sponsors. It was sponsors (and Blizz, ofc) who demanded that transition.
Sponsors too ? Did not know about that. I don't get why they would. What sponsors are you talking about ? Because sponsors could have stoped BW and get money on SC2 even if both games were there so that don't make any sense to me.
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On October 19 2016 21:01 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 20:57 Thouhastmail wrote:On October 19 2016 20:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 05:37 disciple wrote:On October 19 2016 05:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 03:37 letian wrote:On October 19 2016 02:48 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 01:10 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 21:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote:
[quote]
Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues?
The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague.
Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it.
No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended. Brood War SPL Hybrid SPL YES IT HAPPENED ! SC2 SPL. Like the Proleague is THE ONLY league that didn't get discontinued... It's the only league that got a transition. A bad one but hey. but hey, you got a game that nobody wants to play anymore and also you got another game whose scene could be alive and kicking. Oh i have nothing against BW. I still watch it but i was just calling you out on what you said. Like it or not this is the same league. The point of my ramblings is nobody needed BW to SC2 transition in the first place. It would not be that bitter if SC2 turned out to be a worthy replacement, instead it stole several years from BW fans, several years of MSL, OSL and PL, it stole new champions, new talents and much more invaluable memories. (Well, to be exact not SC2 itself but Blizzard) I see your point and largely agree with it. Forcing BW into retirement was an odd (well not from a company pov) thing to do as it was really successfull. SC2 could have worked way better if it was not enforced. I'm sure there is much more viewing on SC2 streams and tournament in foreign country because it was hard to find the streams etc... They could have left it alone and maybe it would not have gone this way. Oh well. This is done now. We can enjoy what we have left (asl or gsl or both) I think people vastly overestimate how healthy the BW scene was - it was already on a steady decline, probably not in terms of quality of matches but in terms of new talent and fresh faces. The whole fabled kespa infrastructure was basically a well oiled machine to cultivate talent, but in the last few years of BW barely anyone new broke into the scene. The last few OSL had dudes like Fantasy and JangBi ducking it out. Maybe Bisu and Flash were that good but in PL no other team managed to produce new players to challenge those guys. I think when the talent pool dries out the days of the scene become numbered and that was already the case with BW before the launch of sc2 That is true. BW would have faded out eventually. I still think the forced transition was not a good idea. Both games could have cohabited. Or maybe it was too much money to run both from kespa/sponsors. It was sponsors (and Blizz, ofc) who demanded that transition. Sponsors too ? Did not know about that. I don't get why they would. What sponsors are you talking about ? Because sponsors could have stoped BW and get money on SC2 even if both games were there so that don't make any sense to me.
Back then it wasn't as clear-cut that SC2 would never take off in Korea, though. That combined with BW's matchfixing scandal probably made sponsors think it would be best to switch.
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Very sad news. But not suprising considering how blizzard has been treating SC2 and especially the korean scene. GG Blizzard
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At least, DK will be less able to use the magic hat "koreans said so" for design choices. I don't mean to blame aimlessely, but this is completely on DK and blizz's head.
The whole direction for LOTV was to reinforce the "wow" factor of korean APM and multitasking to increase viewership, at the expense of strategy in general and casual player's enjoyements.
Obviously this ended up in a massive fail that is now proven by PL disbans.
It seems that the frequent community feedback updates and the test maps shows that the dev team is aware that the direction LOTV has taken must be changed, for better design and to bring back a part of the playerbase. Which is good.
However it's kind of ironic that investing so much into the KR pro scene as a direction for SC2 eventually killed said pro scene.
Maybe it'll be a good thing in the end. Maybe the wake up call for blizz will strengthen the foreign scene, making both the game better designed and the pro players more acessible. But this needs for blizzard to be smart about how they redesign the game, and they will need to invest more into it, which is a huge "maybe".
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On October 19 2016 21:04 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 21:01 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 20:57 Thouhastmail wrote:On October 19 2016 20:52 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 05:37 disciple wrote:On October 19 2016 05:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 03:37 letian wrote:On October 19 2016 02:48 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 01:10 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 21:30 FFW_Rude wrote:
[quote]
Brood War SPL
Hybrid SPL YES IT HAPPENED !
SC2 SPL.
Like the Proleague is THE ONLY league that didn't get discontinued... It's the only league that got a transition. A bad one but hey. but hey, you got a game that nobody wants to play anymore and also you got another game whose scene could be alive and kicking. Oh i have nothing against BW. I still watch it but i was just calling you out on what you said. Like it or not this is the same league. The point of my ramblings is nobody needed BW to SC2 transition in the first place. It would not be that bitter if SC2 turned out to be a worthy replacement, instead it stole several years from BW fans, several years of MSL, OSL and PL, it stole new champions, new talents and much more invaluable memories. (Well, to be exact not SC2 itself but Blizzard) I see your point and largely agree with it. Forcing BW into retirement was an odd (well not from a company pov) thing to do as it was really successfull. SC2 could have worked way better if it was not enforced. I'm sure there is much more viewing on SC2 streams and tournament in foreign country because it was hard to find the streams etc... They could have left it alone and maybe it would not have gone this way. Oh well. This is done now. We can enjoy what we have left (asl or gsl or both) I think people vastly overestimate how healthy the BW scene was - it was already on a steady decline, probably not in terms of quality of matches but in terms of new talent and fresh faces. The whole fabled kespa infrastructure was basically a well oiled machine to cultivate talent, but in the last few years of BW barely anyone new broke into the scene. The last few OSL had dudes like Fantasy and JangBi ducking it out. Maybe Bisu and Flash were that good but in PL no other team managed to produce new players to challenge those guys. I think when the talent pool dries out the days of the scene become numbered and that was already the case with BW before the launch of sc2 That is true. BW would have faded out eventually. I still think the forced transition was not a good idea. Both games could have cohabited. Or maybe it was too much money to run both from kespa/sponsors. It was sponsors (and Blizz, ofc) who demanded that transition. Sponsors too ? Did not know about that. I don't get why they would. What sponsors are you talking about ? Because sponsors could have stoped BW and get money on SC2 even if both games were there so that don't make any sense to me. Back then it wasn't as clear-cut that SC2 would never take off in Korea, though. That combined with BW's matchfixing scandal probably made sponsors think it would be best to switch.
Sure but again. They could have done that without shutting off BW.
All those Blizzard posts are absurd... I mean. What other modern RTS is as successfull as this one ? NONE (no bw is not a modern RTS). Is it as successfull as other games ? Like CSGO or COD ? Hell no, we know that the RTS genre is a nich.
And no Blizzard didn't crush Starcraft legacy by programming SC2. Remember C&C ? Now think C&C 4. That's destruction of a name/game.
Do i think BW is better than SC2 ? Hell yes. Am i happy that SC2 that i watch too (because it's easier to watch) going down ? Hell no. Both games are good.
There is NO blizzard takes the blame for everything. Responsability is shared with a lot of others actors. But better find ONE scapegoat right ?
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this is heartbreaking but if kespa cup and GSL at least continue I'll manage. when I first saw the news, with all the teams disbanding, I was sure this was gonna be the end.
I was never really aware of competitive gaming til 2010, like I heard about it here and there but never followed it. sc2 really changed a lot about my life and I don't want to lose it.
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I don't think I can watch the game anymore. I don't see it coming back from this and just watching it struggle to exist over the next year until everyone relevant finally retires would be too depressing. Gotta move on somehow. Such a shock. I don't know if the feeling I got from watching this game can ever be replicated though.
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MAKE LEGACY OF THE VOID FREE. BW WAS PRACTICALLY FREE. Make profit of skins, etc. =D
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On October 19 2016 20:52 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 05:37 disciple wrote:On October 19 2016 05:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 03:37 letian wrote:On October 19 2016 02:48 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 19 2016 01:10 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 21:30 FFW_Rude wrote:On October 18 2016 20:07 letian wrote:On October 18 2016 19:48 Glioburd wrote:On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:
[quote]
Why did you include BW Proleague and call it a "league"? Because it was a league. On October 18 2016 19:43 letian wrote:
This is not correct since BW PL ended long ago and has nothing to do with SC2 PL. The common point between BW PL and SC2 PL is : the proleague. Should we include other sport leagues as well, because they are leagues? The common point between SC2 PL and SMITE league is: the proleague. Clearly, both games share the same universe and progamers to some extend but that's it. No, this looks like an attempt to drag BW into this and I don't like it, because SC2 was the reason why BW PL ended. Brood War SPL Hybrid SPL YES IT HAPPENED ! SC2 SPL. Like the Proleague is THE ONLY league that didn't get discontinued... It's the only league that got a transition. A bad one but hey. but hey, you got a game that nobody wants to play anymore and also you got another game whose scene could be alive and kicking. Oh i have nothing against BW. I still watch it but i was just calling you out on what you said. Like it or not this is the same league. The point of my ramblings is nobody needed BW to SC2 transition in the first place. It would not be that bitter if SC2 turned out to be a worthy replacement, instead it stole several years from BW fans, several years of MSL, OSL and PL, it stole new champions, new talents and much more invaluable memories. (Well, to be exact not SC2 itself but Blizzard) I see your point and largely agree with it. Forcing BW into retirement was an odd (well not from a company pov) thing to do as it was really successfull. SC2 could have worked way better if it was not enforced. I'm sure there is much more viewing on SC2 streams and tournament in foreign country because it was hard to find the streams etc... They could have left it alone and maybe it would not have gone this way. Oh well. This is done now. We can enjoy what we have left (asl or gsl or both) I think people vastly overestimate how healthy the BW scene was - it was already on a steady decline, probably not in terms of quality of matches but in terms of new talent and fresh faces. The whole fabled kespa infrastructure was basically a well oiled machine to cultivate talent, but in the last few years of BW barely anyone new broke into the scene. The last few OSL had dudes like Fantasy and JangBi ducking it out. Maybe Bisu and Flash were that good but in PL no other team managed to produce new players to challenge those guys. I think when the talent pool dries out the days of the scene become numbered and that was already the case with BW before the launch of sc2 That is true. BW would have faded out eventually. I still think the forced transition was not a good idea. Both games could have cohabited. Or maybe it was too much money to run both from kespa/sponsors.
Soulkey was on a massive rise to the top, zero became a top 2 zerg after 2010, and probably some more that were rising.
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Further than the worrying news and the reasons (lack of enough community, etc...) or who to blame and why (which makes not much sense because nothing will fix it), my biggest concern is Blizzard reaction about this.
Blizzard probably knew it for months, it has been a gossip for all of us lately, and we have seen all the community very worried since yesterday, not just because of PL, because of the future of the entire game. Some pros are announcing their retirement also. And what is Blizzard doing? Nothing. Not a single word to stop this bleeding.
This required an immediate official statement and a plan from Blizzard for the Korean SC2 scene, but I'm afraid there is no plan.
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EPT
