EPTBecause I'm certain there's a trend here. Every non-Master's player I've talked to has the same opinion: LOTV is not fun to play, too many annoying gimmicks, too many checkboxes every game stifling creativity, 'harasscraft 2', etc etc.
SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband - Pag…
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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
Because I'm certain there's a trend here. Every non-Master's player I've talked to has the same opinion: LOTV is not fun to play, too many annoying gimmicks, too many checkboxes every game stifling creativity, 'harasscraft 2', etc etc. | ||
disciple
9071 Posts
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
SC2 had a bad start in Korea, because all the Kespa-blizzard conflict, later when Kespa embraced SC2, conflicts between OGN and GOM happened. actually 6 years of korean SC2 is too much seeing how screwed was the start. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 19 2016 04:29 catabowl wrote: So, define "cheap fans" for us please... b/c I think you are making a BOLD statement and without any context/definitions, you are going to alienate a lot of people. The statement is not meant to make friends. Its a comment on how bullshit this current generation of humans are across the board. Don't pay for music, don't pay for news, don't pay for services, don't pay for entertainment, adblocks everywhere, not buying from the ads that get past adblock, etc... At no point is there a sense of brand loyalty, at no point is there a sense of desire to be financially tethered to anything. Its like the current dating scene in California where everyone's just casually sleeping around with everyone never wanting to ever call what they have a relationship. Just complete and utter bullshit. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:21 ihatevideogames wrote: I'm gonna ask this again: Is there anywhere where I can compare viewiership and playerbase numbers near the end of HOTS with the various stages of LOTV untill now? Because I'm certain there's a trend here. Every non-Master's player I've talked to has the same opinion: LOTV is not fun to play, too many annoying gimmicks, too many checkboxes every game stifling creativity, 'harasscraft 2', etc etc. http://www.rankedftw.com/stats/population/1v1/#v=2&r=-2&sx=a&sy=g | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:21 ihatevideogames wrote: I'm gonna ask this again: Is there anywhere where I can compare viewiership and playerbase numbers near the end of HOTS with the various stages of LOTV untill now? Because I'm certain there's a trend here. Every non-Master's player I've talked to has the same opinion: LOTV is not fun to play, too many annoying gimmicks, too many checkboxes every game stifling creativity, 'harasscraft 2', etc etc. https://www.fuzic.nl/trends/ Though don't use this to confirm your bias. There's a ton of possible reasons for this. | ||
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xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
I'm gonna ask this again: Is there anywhere where I can compare viewiership and playerbase numbers near the end of HOTS with the various stages of LOTV untill now? the decline in numbers started really soon, after the MLG with boxer-idra numbers never catched up again. it also coincides with the rise in popularity of LoL and the subsequent rise of Dota2. Gom charged for an stream that was not 360p and for vods, compared with dota where all the vods were HD for free in youtube, and the games can be expected in game. What would people do? expend money in a paywall or change the game? all the gom apologists helped to sink the scene. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12601 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:15 bearhug wrote: Why the audiences are leaving? Has nothing to do with DK & Blizz? Think about the best period for audience in SC2. End of 2011. Think about the balance at that time. Was it good? No? Guess it's not about balance then. | ||
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Xamo
Spain886 Posts
On October 19 2016 04:23 catabowl wrote: This. It's what ultimately killed BW Proleague (not the switch to SC2) because all the sponsors started backing out and wanted a fresh start. This, this and this. SC BW and SC2 are so similar that even their decline in Korea is due to the same reason. Sad, I love both games. Please, can I get responses from haters of both games? It is a sad day and I like to feel superior sometimes. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
That said, I think LotV was more fun than HotS, but I've stopped playing for now because it's too much work to keep up with masters level and meta. I go to work as well and I think 10 years of StarCraft isn't a short time either. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On October 19 2016 03:37 letian wrote: The point of my ramblings is nobody needed BW to SC2 transition in the first place. It would not be that bitter if SC2 turned out to be a worthy replacement, instead it stole several years from BW fans, several years of MSL, OSL and PL, it stole new champions, new talents and much more invaluable memories. (Well, to be exact not SC2 itself but Blizzard) I see your point and largely agree with it. Forcing BW into retirement was an odd (well not from a company pov) thing to do as it was really successfull. SC2 could have worked way better if it was not enforced. I'm sure there is much more viewing on SC2 streams and tournament in foreign country because it was hard to find the streams etc... They could have left it alone and maybe it would not have gone this way. Oh well. This is done now. We can enjoy what we have left (asl or gsl or both) | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:29 Shield wrote: Blizzard is doing pretty bad job most of the time. David Kim and Dustin Browder had questionable decisions in the past. Understandably, Blizzard seems to have invested less money and effort into SC2 than during WoL time because the game wasn't getting any popular or at least stable viewership. It's just a snowball effect. yeah but with LotV they have really stepped it up. weekly community updates, new coop mode, Ladder revamp, separate race MMR, skins and voice packs etc. unfortunately it seems to be to late  | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:32 Charoisaur wrote: yeah but with LotV they have really stepped it up. weekly community updates, new coop mode, Ladder revamp, separate race MMR, skins and voice packs etc. unfortunately it seems to be to late Oh, yeah. I agree LotV is somewhat fun. Definitely better than HotS. In an ideal world, the expansion of WoL should have been LotV not HotS. Take out HotS units such as oracle, widow mines, speed mutas and the game will be even more fun, especially for casual gamers. | ||
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disciple
9071 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:30 FFW_Rude wrote: I see your point and largely agree with it. Forcing BW into retirement was an odd (well not from a company pov) thing to do as it was really successfull. SC2 could have worked way better if it was not enforced. I'm sure there is much more viewing on SC2 streams and tournament in foreign country because it was hard to find the streams etc... They could have left it alone and maybe it would not have gone this way. Oh well. This is done now. We can enjoy what we have left (asl or gsl or both) I think people vastly overestimate how healthy the BW scene was - it was already on a steady decline, probably not in terms of quality of matches but in terms of new talent and fresh faces. The whole fabled kespa infrastructure was basically a well oiled machine to cultivate talent, but in the last few years of BW barely anyone new broke into the scene. The last few OSL had dudes like Fantasy and JangBi ducking it out. Maybe Bisu and Flash were that good but in PL no other team managed to produce new players to challenge those guys. I think when the talent pool dries out the days of the scene become numbered and that was already the case with BW before the launch of sc2 | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2358 Posts
It was like if the EPL or La liga players suddenly have to play baby-futbol instead of actual futbol and force the fans to watch ronaldo and messi on a little field with 7 players per team instead of 11... stupid idea. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:37 disciple wrote: I think people vastly overestimate how healthy the BW scene was - it was already on a steady decline, probably not in terms of quality of matches but in terms of new talent and fresh faces. The whole fabled kespa infrastructure was basically a well oiled machine to cultivate talent, but in the last few years of BW barely anyone new broke into the scene. The last few OSL had dudes like Fantasy and JangBi ducking it out. Maybe Bisu and Flash were that good but in PL no other team managed to produce new players to challenge those guys. I think when the talent pool dries out the days of the scene become numbered and that was already the case with BW before the launch of sc2 The Irony of your post is that SC2 was never bigger than BW even in its peak , and BW in its lowest, so why forcing the transition? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:12 Nebuchad wrote: I don't post to complain that it's ending, or to blame Blizzard or wcs or David Kim or any type of system. I'm fairly aware of why it's ending. It's ending because of us, the audience. And yeah, I know it's the korean audience that was the main focus, so it's not really us on TL, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have done more. But we didn't. That tells me something about how much we wanted proleague to continue, and that tells me something about why it's ending. Now I see the appeal of trying to work in some narratives about Blizzard, about the game, about the balance, it's all really peachy. It's also not really what happened. There are lots and lots of reasons. The most important one is no korean interest. Why? That has reasons related to blizzard. So yeah sure no viewers is the most basic explanation, but there is more to it in the grand scheme of things. | ||
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letian
Germany4221 Posts
On October 19 2016 04:09 BisuDagger wrote: I find it hard to believe that people are blaming the design choices of LoTV over incidents like match fixing from Life. It feels like the community just ignored that even happened, meanwhile the SC1 community is still very fervent over the match fixing from 7 years ago. The impact match fixing has on sponsors and business is huge. Because it defines the game being fun or not? I refuse to believe the matchfixing scandal has anything to do with the scene decline in any sport. If we take football for instance, do you truly believe this sport is free from matchfixing? I personally do not care about several games that were fixed. What kind of sport is that when a single scandal destroys the whole scene in the first place? Of course there will be people who are deeply hurt by the fact but if matchfixing was a serious issue, we wouldn't have any competitive sport at all. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On October 19 2016 06:09 letian wrote: Because it defines the game being fun or not? I refuse to believe the matchfixing scandal has anything to do with the scene decline in any sport. If we take football for instance, do you truly believe this sport is free from matchfixing? I personally do not care about several games that were fixed. What kind of sport is that when a single scandal destroys the whole scene in the first place? Of course there will be people who are deeply hurt by the fact but if matchfixing was a serious issue, we wouldn't have any competitive sport at all. SC2 was in decline before Life did his matchfixing. Stop with the bullshit excuses (not you but the guy you have quoted). | ||
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hitthat
Poland2349 Posts
On October 19 2016 05:37 disciple wrote: I think people vastly overestimate how healthy the BW scene was - it was already on a steady decline, probably not in terms of quality of matches but in terms of new talent and fresh faces. The whole fabled kespa infrastructure was basically a well oiled machine to cultivate talent, but in the last few years of BW barely anyone new broke into the scene. The last few OSL had dudes like Fantasy and JangBi ducking it out. Maybe Bisu and Flash were that good but in PL no other team managed to produce new players to challenge those guys. I think when the talent pool dries out the days of the scene become numbered and that was already the case with BW before the launch of sc2 Well, indeed Fantasy and Jangbi were already established "faces" but the likes of Hydra or Soulkey were really promising. Hydra even menaged to win MSL and got into semifinal of OSL. | ||
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