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Regardless of the situation, we will still action upon "dead game" comments. As this is a sensitive issue for SC2 fans, please do not come into this thread and talk about SC2 players switching over to BW. This thread is also not about bashing Blizzard, David Kim, or the WCS system. |
On October 19 2016 04:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:21 Charoisaur wrote:On October 19 2016 04:14 Espartaquen wrote:
People who could have had a career in this game have been fucked over many times. YES maybe RTS were not going to be the norm in a MOBA dominated market, but there was still a small sustainable market for it. What we saw when LOTV came out is that many players just quit because they did not like the new expansion. Blizzard cant force others to play a game they dont want to play, and they should have some responsibility towards those that were living thanks to sc2. Good Job Blizzard, good job WCS and good job ourselves for letting this happen. who quit the game because they didn't like the game? in fact the opposite happened, players like Nerchio and many others specifially said that they are now more motivated because the game is more fun than ever. The issue is not the players, its not the game, its Blizz. The issue is that the game has cheap fans that never, EVER, wants to put their money where their mouth is. God I fucking hate this culture sometimes. If people don't make money off of this game, this game won't be supported--period.
So, define "cheap fans" for us please... b/c I think you are making a BOLD statement and without any context/definitions, you are going to alienate a lot of people.
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On October 19 2016 04:29 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 19 2016 04:21 Charoisaur wrote:On October 19 2016 04:14 Espartaquen wrote:
People who could have had a career in this game have been fucked over many times. YES maybe RTS were not going to be the norm in a MOBA dominated market, but there was still a small sustainable market for it. What we saw when LOTV came out is that many players just quit because they did not like the new expansion. Blizzard cant force others to play a game they dont want to play, and they should have some responsibility towards those that were living thanks to sc2. Good Job Blizzard, good job WCS and good job ourselves for letting this happen. who quit the game because they didn't like the game? in fact the opposite happened, players like Nerchio and many others specifially said that they are now more motivated because the game is more fun than ever. The issue is not the players, its not the game, its Blizz. The issue is that the game has cheap fans that never, EVER, wants to put their money where their mouth is. God I fucking hate this culture sometimes. If people don't make money off of this game, this game won't be supported--period. So, define "cheap fans" for us please... b/c I think you are making a BOLD statement and without any context/definitions, you are going to alienate a lot of people.
It is quite absurd because people didn't even had an option to buy stuff. The new patch changed that though, but blizzard still has to deliver high quality skins, the three in the patch are kinda meh.
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On October 19 2016 04:21 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:14 Espartaquen wrote:
People who could have had a career in this game have been fucked over many times. YES maybe RTS were not going to be the norm in a MOBA dominated market, but there was still a small sustainable market for it. What we saw when LOTV came out is that many players just quit because they did not like the new expansion. Blizzard cant force others to play a game they dont want to play, and they should have some responsibility towards those that were living thanks to sc2. Good Job Blizzard, good job WCS and good job ourselves for letting this happen. who quit the game because they didn't like the game? in fact the opposite happened, players like Nerchio and many others specifically said that they are now more motivated because the game is more fun than ever.
Yeah maybe Nerchio is better off, but he sure as hell would not find the success he has had if blizzard had not imposed the ban on Koreans. On the other hand, you got a lot of people from the proleague teams who are gonna retire because they simply cannot sustain themselves anymore, I would like to know what they have to say about this matter.
The only one that has had the balls to say how stupid the new system was is Harstem, and for that he will always have my respect and admiration. I´m tired of giving better treatment to those that dont deserve it. If koreans won more money because they were better so be it.
I remember Morrow and Desrow for example talking in Remax about how a ban on koreans would make it so that foreigners see more play, which would strengthen viewership outside Korea. It has not been the case, it seems that people are more often than not interested in a good game, regardless of who is playing.
And to the argument of LOTV design not being responsible for the HUGE DOWNFALL we have seen for LOTV, that it´s just that RTS arent popular anymore, to Oblivion with that argument. True, RTS genre is not as accessible as MOBA, hence its not as popular, yet it also is true that at the end of HOTS more people played and watched sc2 than when the "whole new game" came out. Just acknowledge it, LOTV changed in a way not all the HOTS fans approved of, Blizzard literally gave the finger to those that complained that they did not want the game to be like that.
Please, it´s time to stop living in a bubble, I´m a starcraft fan and this is a sad day for everyone, we have to admit that something is wrong and its not just that the RTS genre is dead. If we dont change this attitude how can we hope for the game we love to survive?
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On October 19 2016 04:24 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:21 Charoisaur wrote:On October 19 2016 04:14 Espartaquen wrote:
People who could have had a career in this game have been fucked over many times. YES maybe RTS were not going to be the norm in a MOBA dominated market, but there was still a small sustainable market for it. What we saw when LOTV came out is that many players just quit because they did not like the new expansion. Blizzard cant force others to play a game they dont want to play, and they should have some responsibility towards those that were living thanks to sc2. Good Job Blizzard, good job WCS and good job ourselves for letting this happen. who quit the game because they didn't like the game? in fact the opposite happened, players like Nerchio and many others specifially said that they are now more motivated because the game is more fun than ever. The issue is not the players, its not the game, its Blizz. The issue is that the game has cheap fans that never, EVER, wants to put their money where their mouth is. God I fucking hate this culture sometimes. If people don't make money off of this game, this game won't be supported--period.
I paid for the game, what else do you want? I was never going to pay to stream SC2, it just didn't appeal to me nearly as much as BW did, especially post-WoL. Had there been a better product on offer, I would have gladly paid a subscription fee for SPL or what have you just like I drop money for things like Netflix. So yeah, the issue was always the game - for me at least.
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Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year
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On October 19 2016 04:49 Nebuchad wrote:
Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year
Which is normal and would happen everywhere no matter what.
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I hope most players decide to retire now and go back to school. Better to do it sooner than later.
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On October 19 2016 04:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:49 Nebuchad wrote:
Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year Which is normal and would happen everywhere no matter what.
Not really though. Most shows that end because not enough people are watching them end in silence.
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This is really a devastating news. I'm so sad. Many great SC2 players in those 5 teams. I wonder what they are gonna do next. Continue to play professionally without a team is not easy. If they all retire, that would be a big loss.
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On October 19 2016 04:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:49 Nebuchad wrote:
Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year Which is normal and would happen everywhere no matter what.
I feel like he has a pretty solid point there. A top dota streamer doing mundane laddering gets more views than a Pro League match.
LR threads are spammy as all hell and expected to be humongous. Or they were. Now they're not. Ultimately we're arguing over whether PL had declining viewership and since they just closed their doors because of declining viewership I'm not gonna say too much about that.
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On October 19 2016 04:56 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2016 04:49 Nebuchad wrote:
Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year Which is normal and would happen everywhere no matter what. I feel like he has a pretty solid point there. A top dota streamer doing mundane laddering gets more views than a Pro League match. LR threads are spammy as all hell and expected to be humongous. Or they were. Now they're not. Ultimately we're arguing over whether PL had declining viewership and since they just closed their doors because of declining viewership I'm not gonna say too much about that.
SC2 vod viewership is pretty high though. Most people on here simply aren't there to catch KR leagues live.
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Pretty bad feels about all this. Here's to hoping Blizzard gives us something to hope for at Blizzcon with regards to professional SC2. Don't turn it into a Korean retirement party please =(
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How can this happen after Adepts came out and made the game so much more fun!!!
I'm joking, terrible joke of a unit that made the game horrible to watch. I wonder if the Korean audience thought the same?
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On October 19 2016 03:38 MaCRo.gg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 03:28 Thax wrote:On October 19 2016 02:39 MaCRo.gg wrote:On October 19 2016 01:23 jinjin5000 wrote:On October 19 2016 01:01 MaCRo.gg wrote:
Why aren't we allowed to discuss Welfare Champion Series? How did that decision not have a profound impact on this KeSPA decision? Why must Liquid be pro Welfare regardless of the damage it does to SC2? Because it didn't that much Do you not understand that KOREAN sponsors looking for KOREAN audience to advertise to have little interest in global advertisement if they don't have any global presence/assets? Sc2 interest was dwindling with all the new more popular releases. Hell, BW has more than 3 times the player than sc2 even now. Bw has more viewers on afreeca than sc2 will dream of. Sc2 never hit top 15. Bw consistently is top 5 pc bang behind overwatch, league, fifa online 3 (FO3 being casual b8) Combine that with matchfixing scandal and very low vieweeship, it makes absolutely 0 sense to continue on. Probably with matchfixing scandal, kespa teams decided to be done for good Welfare league only affects those who are looking to make extra bucks. The individuals. Do you not realize this? Stop the shitposting. ROFL Banning Korean players from participating in ANYTHING outside of Korea wasn't a factor in KeSPA dropping SC2? Welfare killing viewership had no effect on the Korean scene? Forcing early Korean player retirements of many fan favorites had NO EFFECT? No doubt SC2 was dying and Korean interest in SC2 practically dead, but clearly xenophobia had a factor in killing Proleague. How did WCS kill the viewership of Pro-league, explain me that? Those things are entirely unrelated. As stated numerous times before, foreign viewership has no relation to Korean sponsorships. SKT, KT, Jin Air, ... don't give a rats ass about sponsoring things that don't bring Korean viewers because those are literally their entire market. They don't sell things to people outside of South-Korea. The problem is Korean tournaments not drawing enough Korean viewers. WCS has nothing to do with that. A shifting esports landscape and match fixing scandals do. Xenophobia? Jezus fucking Christ. Are you grasping or what? Xenophobia is a soft term it is most definitely RACISM. How can you sit there and declare that WCS had NO EFFECT when tons of Korean pros were forced to retire because the WCS banned ONLY KOREANS from participating in over half the tournaments?
your use of the term xenophobia is exagerated by far, region lock is far from being the main reason for starcraft 2 to drop out of korea ; blame your countrymate for liking more moba and teamgames
region lock technically forced most of the koreans to play in korea, thus making the overall level bigger and making it more interesting
too bad there were none to watch it
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Good time to be a Jin Air fan
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On October 19 2016 04:56 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2016 04:49 Nebuchad wrote:
Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year Which is normal and would happen everywhere no matter what. Not really though. Most shows that end because not enough people are watching them end in silence.
I don't think that is true. The fans of said show will complain about it and it will be a huge topic.
Just because the weekly threads don't have 100 pages each (which only really are active while the thing is live) doesn't mean that people don't care as you can see here.
Did you watch every week live? No? Why do you post in this thread then? (your logic, not mine)
On October 19 2016 04:56 Probe1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2016 04:49 Nebuchad wrote:
Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year Which is normal and would happen everywhere no matter what. I feel like he has a pretty solid point there. A top dota streamer doing mundane laddering gets more views than a Pro League match. LR threads are spammy as all hell and expected to be humongous. Or they were. Now they're not. Ultimately we're arguing over whether PL had declining viewership and since they just closed their doors because of declining viewership I'm not gonna say too much about that.
Sure it had less viewers, his comment imo blames people in this thread (or rather on TL) specifically though.
Maybe that's the wrong interpretation.
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On October 19 2016 05:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 04:56 Nebuchad wrote:On October 19 2016 04:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2016 04:49 Nebuchad wrote:
Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year Which is normal and would happen everywhere no matter what. Not really though. Most shows that end because not enough people are watching them end in silence. I don't think that is true. The fans of said show will complain about it and it will be a huge topic. Just because the weekly threads don't have 100 pages each (which only really are active while the thing is live) doesn't mean that people don't care as you can see here. Did you watch every week live? No? Why do you post in this thread then? (your logic, not mine)
I don't post to complain that it's ending, or to blame Blizzard or wcs or David Kim or any type of system. I'm fairly aware of why it's ending. It's ending because of us, the audience. And yeah, I know it's the korean audience that was the main focus, so it's not really us on TL, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have done more.
But we didn't. That tells me something about how much we wanted proleague to continue, and that tells me something about why it's ending. Now I see the appeal of trying to work in some narratives about Blizzard, about the game, about the balance, it's all really peachy. It's also not really what happened.
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On October 18 2016 11:27 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2016 11:25 Cricketer12 wrote:
what the actual fuck. This may be the single worst thing to happen to sc2, holy shit this is beyond terrible No, the worst was Blizzard deciding to keep renewing David Kim's contract. This is a close second though.
I second it！
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On October 19 2016 05:12 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 05:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2016 04:56 Nebuchad wrote:On October 19 2016 04:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2016 04:49 Nebuchad wrote:
Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year Which is normal and would happen everywhere no matter what. Not really though. Most shows that end because not enough people are watching them end in silence. I don't think that is true. The fans of said show will complain about it and it will be a huge topic. Just because the weekly threads don't have 100 pages each (which only really are active while the thing is live) doesn't mean that people don't care as you can see here. Did you watch every week live? No? Why do you post in this thread then? (your logic, not mine) I don't post to complain that it's ending, or to blame Blizzard or wcs or David Kim or any type of system. I'm fairly aware of why it's ending. It's ending because of us, the audience. And yeah, I know it's the korean audience that was the main focus, so it's not really us on TL, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have done more. But we didn't. That tells me something about how much we wanted proleague to continue, and that tells me something about why it's ending. Now I see the appeal of trying to work in some narratives about Blizzard, about the game, about the balance, it's all really peachy. It's also not really what happened.
Why the audiences are leaving? Has nothing to do with DK & Blizz?
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On October 19 2016 05:12 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2016 05:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2016 04:56 Nebuchad wrote:On October 19 2016 04:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:On October 19 2016 04:49 Nebuchad wrote:
Thread complaining about the end of proleague will be bigger than any proleague LR thread this year Which is normal and would happen everywhere no matter what. Not really though. Most shows that end because not enough people are watching them end in silence. I don't think that is true. The fans of said show will complain about it and it will be a huge topic. Just because the weekly threads don't have 100 pages each (which only really are active while the thing is live) doesn't mean that people don't care as you can see here. Did you watch every week live? No? Why do you post in this thread then? (your logic, not mine) I don't post to complain that it's ending, or to blame Blizzard or wcs or David Kim or any type of system. I'm fairly aware of why it's ending. It's ending because of us, the audience. And yeah, I know it's the korean audience that was the main focus, so it's not really us on TL, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have done more. But we didn't. That tells me something about how much we wanted proleague to continue, and that tells me something about why it's ending. Now I see the appeal of trying to work in some narratives about Blizzard, about the game, about the balance, it's all really peachy. It's also not really what happened.
I subscribed to Proleague so I'm clearly guilt free.
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EPT
