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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37042 Posts
On September 23 2016 02:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:While it is true that the korean scene gets weaker and weaker, it's hard to fault blizzard for that. I mean yes it would be nice for all the players who started playing sc2 (a huge chunk came from bw anyway) if the korean scene would have more tournaments and stuff, but if there isn't enough korean sponsoring interest, etc it's really hard to make that happen. New players play lol and now Overwatch, where exactly should that new talent pool come from? Even if there were 3 GSL and 3 SSL seasons + proleague, that wouldn't change much either. Sc2 isn't the game young gamers wanna be pro in these days, that's the reality. I mean i don't follow the amateur scene (if there is one) in korea so maybe there would be a few up and coming players still, but the majority of people isn't interested in playing sc2 and more (artifically created -> blizzard sponsored) korean tournaments wouldn't change that i think. With that being said, i am hyped for kespa cup and hope that foreigners will show good games 
Yes it would. More availability for tournaments means more money. The youth in Korea are choosing not to pursue SC2 because of the lack of tournaments, lack of money, lack of sponsor interest, and lack of popularity. But if all of that was plentiful, then yes, we'd see a lot of new talent fostering, growing, and blooming.
I have more to say on the matter but doing it on my phone is tiresome so I'll wait till I get on a computer.
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On September 23 2016 03:41 The_Red_Viper wrote:
In an ideal world we would have the WCS tournaments we had last year but region locked (and maybe more than three) and all the dreamhacks, etc would be "global events" or rather would be what they always were: free to enter for anybody.
Whatever the reason is (most likely tournament organizers) that we have the current system, it's what it is.
What are the reasons we only have 2 GSL/SSL tournaments though, that's the interesting part.
Reasons? George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Alexander Hamilton, Andrew Jackson, Ulysses S. Grant and Benjamin Franklin.
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On September 23 2016 03:42 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 02:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:While it is true that the korean scene gets weaker and weaker, it's hard to fault blizzard for that. I mean yes it would be nice for all the players who started playing sc2 (a huge chunk came from bw anyway) if the korean scene would have more tournaments and stuff, but if there isn't enough korean sponsoring interest, etc it's really hard to make that happen. New players play lol and now Overwatch, where exactly should that new talent pool come from? Even if there were 3 GSL and 3 SSL seasons + proleague, that wouldn't change much either. Sc2 isn't the game young gamers wanna be pro in these days, that's the reality. I mean i don't follow the amateur scene (if there is one) in korea so maybe there would be a few up and coming players still, but the majority of people isn't interested in playing sc2 and more (artifically created -> blizzard sponsored) korean tournaments wouldn't change that i think. With that being said, i am hyped for kespa cup and hope that foreigners will show good games Yes it would. More availability for tournaments means more money. The youth in Korea are choosing not to pursue SC2 because of the lack of tournaments, lack of money, lack of sponsor interest, and lack of popularity. But if all of that was plentiful, then yes, we'd see a lot of new talent fostering, growing, and blooming. I have more to say on the matter but doing it on my phone is tiresome so I'll wait till I get on a computer.
Nah don't get me wrong, this here:
The youth in Korea are choosing not to pursue SC2 because of the lack of tournaments, lack of money, lack of sponsor interest, and lack of popularity. But if all of that was plentiful, then yes, we'd see a lot of new talent fostering, growing, and blooming.
is quite obvious. Yes if sc2 would be popular, there would be more tournaments because more sponsors which would mean more new players. I am saying that with the current popularity and sponsor interest blizzard sponsoring 3 instead of 2 starleagues each wouldn't really do much imo. It would help current players and scene, but i don't see that it would attract new players.
Overwatch and LoL are the titles which attract the young korean gamers who then might wanna go pro.
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On September 22 2016 20:40 Nerchio wrote:
Another delusional foreigner, jesus christ when is it going to end
LOL
At least, you can say that Nerchio takes it well =)
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surely, he knows what's going on in Korean sc2 scene right now
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On September 22 2016 21:53 CynicalDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2016 21:13 showstealer1829 wrote:I obviously want to avoid ByuN because he’s really really good So Neeb....about Bambi's mom.... ahahhaha, this was brilliant! thanks! 
I don't get it
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STOP TRIPPING LOSER FLAGS
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Neebs bit on the current Korean scene stood out to me in stark contrast to most all of the other foreigner's view these days!
I can respect Neeb for saying it how it is. The Korean scene will continue to struggle and get weaker if Blizzard does not improve on this years system going forward.
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On September 23 2016 03:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 03:42 Seeker wrote:On September 23 2016 02:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:While it is true that the korean scene gets weaker and weaker, it's hard to fault blizzard for that. I mean yes it would be nice for all the players who started playing sc2 (a huge chunk came from bw anyway) if the korean scene would have more tournaments and stuff, but if there isn't enough korean sponsoring interest, etc it's really hard to make that happen. New players play lol and now Overwatch, where exactly should that new talent pool come from? Even if there were 3 GSL and 3 SSL seasons + proleague, that wouldn't change much either. Sc2 isn't the game young gamers wanna be pro in these days, that's the reality. I mean i don't follow the amateur scene (if there is one) in korea so maybe there would be a few up and coming players still, but the majority of people isn't interested in playing sc2 and more (artifically created -> blizzard sponsored) korean tournaments wouldn't change that i think. With that being said, i am hyped for kespa cup and hope that foreigners will show good games Yes it would. More availability for tournaments means more money. The youth in Korea are choosing not to pursue SC2 because of the lack of tournaments, lack of money, lack of sponsor interest, and lack of popularity. But if all of that was plentiful, then yes, we'd see a lot of new talent fostering, growing, and blooming. I have more to say on the matter but doing it on my phone is tiresome so I'll wait till I get on a computer. Nah don't get me wrong, this here: Show nested quote +The youth in Korea are choosing not to pursue SC2 because of the lack of tournaments, lack of money, lack of sponsor interest, and lack of popularity. But if all of that was plentiful, then yes, we'd see a lot of new talent fostering, growing, and blooming. is quite obvious. Yes if sc2 would be popular, there would be more tournaments because more sponsors which would mean more new players. I am saying that with the current popularity and sponsor interest blizzard sponsoring 3 instead of 2 starleagues each wouldn't really do much imo. It would help current players and scene, but i don't see that it would attract new players. Overwatch and LoL are the titles which attract the young korean gamers who then might wanna go pro.
One really simple thing that the Korean scene could do to change some of this without spending more money is to turn Proleague into a Bo7 format. In a Bo5, every team fields the same players because the cost of dropping a map is too high to try out someone new and riskier. The incredibly few new names hired by Prolelague teams are never fielded, and then dropped after a year or even a few rounds. Just by extending the format, Proleague teams will have to reach into depth and gives a bit of freshness to the scene.
The cost of another GSL or Starleague could be astronomical. The cost to play 1 or 2 more games when you already own/rent the studio and have all the staff already there? Pretty much nothing. Especially when there are days when Proleague matches end in 30 minutes with commercial breaks on the 3-0 sweep.
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On September 23 2016 03:42 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 02:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:While it is true that the korean scene gets weaker and weaker, it's hard to fault blizzard for that. I mean yes it would be nice for all the players who started playing sc2 (a huge chunk came from bw anyway) if the korean scene would have more tournaments and stuff, but if there isn't enough korean sponsoring interest, etc it's really hard to make that happen. New players play lol and now Overwatch, where exactly should that new talent pool come from? Even if there were 3 GSL and 3 SSL seasons + proleague, that wouldn't change much either. Sc2 isn't the game young gamers wanna be pro in these days, that's the reality. I mean i don't follow the amateur scene (if there is one) in korea so maybe there would be a few up and coming players still, but the majority of people isn't interested in playing sc2 and more (artifically created -> blizzard sponsored) korean tournaments wouldn't change that i think. With that being said, i am hyped for kespa cup and hope that foreigners will show good games Yes it would. More availability for tournaments means more money. The youth in Korea are choosing not to pursue SC2 because of the lack of tournaments, lack of money, lack of sponsor interest, and lack of popularity. But if all of that was plentiful, then yes, we'd see a lot of new talent fostering, growing, and blooming. I have more to say on the matter but doing it on my phone is tiresome so I'll wait till I get on a computer.
Yeah, if all that was plentiful that would be true. Unfortunately, only two of these things are in the hands of blizzard and the other two aren't gonna change because of the first two. It doesn't work in that direction so it's out of Blizzard's hands. Korea has to care about SC2 in general again before investing into the Korean SC2 scene becomes really viable. If they're gonna invest it's better to do it for the grassroots scene so hopefully they can attract new top players into those events and the money and experience helps motivate them to go pro.
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On September 23 2016 14:37 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 03:42 Seeker wrote:On September 23 2016 02:25 The_Red_Viper wrote:While it is true that the korean scene gets weaker and weaker, it's hard to fault blizzard for that. I mean yes it would be nice for all the players who started playing sc2 (a huge chunk came from bw anyway) if the korean scene would have more tournaments and stuff, but if there isn't enough korean sponsoring interest, etc it's really hard to make that happen. New players play lol and now Overwatch, where exactly should that new talent pool come from? Even if there were 3 GSL and 3 SSL seasons + proleague, that wouldn't change much either. Sc2 isn't the game young gamers wanna be pro in these days, that's the reality. I mean i don't follow the amateur scene (if there is one) in korea so maybe there would be a few up and coming players still, but the majority of people isn't interested in playing sc2 and more (artifically created -> blizzard sponsored) korean tournaments wouldn't change that i think. With that being said, i am hyped for kespa cup and hope that foreigners will show good games Yes it would. More availability for tournaments means more money. The youth in Korea are choosing not to pursue SC2 because of the lack of tournaments, lack of money, lack of sponsor interest, and lack of popularity. But if all of that was plentiful, then yes, we'd see a lot of new talent fostering, growing, and blooming. I have more to say on the matter but doing it on my phone is tiresome so I'll wait till I get on a computer. Yeah, if all that was plentiful that would be true. Unfortunately, only two of these things are in the hands of blizzard and the other two aren't gonna change because of the first two. It doesn't work in that direction so it's out of Blizzard's hands. Korea has to care about SC2 in general again before investing into the Korean SC2 scene becomes really viable. If they're gonna invest it's better to do it for the grassroots scene so hopefully they can attract new top players into those events and the money and experience helps motivate them to go pro.
I think this really illustrates the problem with the two major regions. Korea had the infrastructure and the talent, but the sponsors and the audience was in the foreign scene.
The foreign scene needed the money and infrastructure to support the larger number of players in its region and to attract more people.
The Korean scene needs general interest and popularity since it already has the talent and infrastructure in place.
I would say that the reason fewer people are playing Starcraft 2 is not because of the fewer tournaments and money. There is a decent chunk of money and five tournaments all in a single region. Not to mention they're right next to a country with an absolutely massive scene with a lot of money to throw in it. They have the most tournaments of a single region and probably the highest amount of money in a single region (aside from China).
I think they're not as in to it because it is a harder game, and there are "easier" games to get good at like Dota, Overwatch, and Lol. So what we have is somewhat opposite to the foreign scene. We have a ton of really fantastic players, but there's no real middle ground. So to get into Code A, they basically have to fight a bunch of former Code A/Code S players.
For the foreigners, we have a lot of decent people, and this makes it easier to get into SC2 because there are more people at a lower level.
So what Koreans need is a junior league for all the low level players, because the funny part is that a large part of the foreign scene is better than the non-Code A players (who we largely do not know). Blizzard should sponsor a league for people of even lower levels than most foreigners.
Cause as I've said before, 2013-2015, the Korean winners were almost always higher/top level Koreans. Very rarely did you see purely Code A or lower Koreans making it over and stomping on foreigners.
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The state of the Korean scene is just terrible. It should be the #1 priority. It's like as if Blizzard is weaning Koreans off SC2 purposefully.
I don't care if the entire scene is segregated (KR and the rest of the world) but you gotta actually gotta show up and accommodate the Koreans so they have enough prize money, tournaments, and opportunity. Half of this entire year is like dead time for most pros.
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On September 22 2016 20:40 Nerchio wrote:
Another delusional foreigner, jesus christ when is it going to end
Nerchio, the point of been delusional is that you DONT KNOW you are delusional :D.
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are neeb and scarlett coming?
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On September 22 2016 20:27 Neeb said:
The Korean scene is dying at an incredibly fast rate because either Blizzard doesn’t understand or doesn’t care that Koreans have no tournaments to play in.
I am starting to love Neeb! A foreign player, who expressed our deepest concerns!
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Is it the lack of interest in SC2 in Korea that keeps tournament organizers from holding SC2 events there, or something else? In the rest of the world we have DH, IEM, HSC, BT, etc. doing a great job organizing tournaments with or without Blizzard's support. And even those Blizzard sponsored events aren't fully covered by Blizzard, so it really needs an independent organizer willing to invest in the game. Essentially, we need more OlimoLeagues to keep the Korean scene healthy. It surely is a problem for Blizzard but not necessarily something they can solve by themselves cost-effectively.
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On September 23 2016 03:30 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2016 03:26 Fango wrote:On September 23 2016 02:35 SC2ShoWTimE wrote:On September 23 2016 01:41 Fango wrote:On September 23 2016 01:32 Waxangel wrote:Plenty of foreign pros have said that the 2016 system sucked for Koreans. It's not like Neeb has gone beyond that and given them prize money earned on the WCS circuit  Yh but they all act like it's a good thing because they can actually win cups now. Neeb is the only who admits it's killing the Korean scene Literally nobody acts like that it's more what people like you read into it I can assure you that almost every foreign pro thinks it's bad for the koreans and there should be more global events to balance it out. The current system is undeniable very good for us. We can prove ourselves in tournaments vs players that have the same practice coniditions, we get more exposure and make more money. That doesn't mean we justify it or think it's fair. We just play in the system that is given to us. In the end it's blizzard's call and not ours. Litterally Neeb is the only one on here admitting that it's killing the Korean scene. Other foreigners have said that it's bad for Koreans but they still saying it's a good system overall. No they never said they think it's good overall (Apollo and some casters did though I think), they just said that WCS is good for them. This does not mean that they don't think there should be more events for Koreans. Nerchio also said he wants more global events and only the 3 Championships should be region locked for example.
The last interview i remember was uthermal saying the system this year is good but not perfect or something kike that. Compared to the disaster is actually is
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On September 23 2016 15:39 lestye wrote:
The state of the Korean scene is just terrible. It should be the #1 priority. It's like as if Blizzard is weaning Koreans off SC2 purposefully.
I don't care if the entire scene is segregated (KR and the rest of the world) but you gotta actually gotta show up and accommodate the Koreans so they have enough prize money, tournaments, and opportunity. Half of this entire year is like dead time for most pros.
Starcraft 2 was never all that popular in Korea. It was always propped up by Blizzard. You can throw as much money at the Korean scene as you want, but it won't stop whatever declining popularity there is left for Starcraft 2.
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personally, Korean SC2 will never fuel Global Sc2 success. Mostly because its a national league / championship and because of the language barrier. Yes, they have english casters, but until the scene opens up to english, Korea will remain a SC2 island.
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EPT
